Revelations sales totals

[strangegrey]

They threw a disc of shitty retreads into the mix just to amplify the effect...and it's sad.

I think that is incorrect, Frank. Neal is on record as saying that they didn't want to re-record anything, but Walmart insisted and without the re-records there was no deal. The deal was simply too lucrative to pass up. Do you think any other group would have been so noble as to pass that deal up because of the re-records?

I disagree Dan...if you go back through the years, Friga and Fro constantly dropped hints that they wanted to rerecord this stuff. Hell, they actually recorded this shit with Augeri and Soto. In fact, IIRC, Soto said as much...that they wanted to rerecord this stuff and release it. The Walmart requirement gave them the excuse to actually do it. However, I really do remember them going on record as saying it was something they planned to do all along...

[Saint John]

They threw a disc of shitty retreads into the mix just to amplify the effect...and it's sad.

I think that is incorrect, Frank. Neal is on record as saying that they didn't want to re-record anything, but Walmart insisted and without the re-records there was no deal. The deal was simply too lucrative to pass up. Do you think any other group would have been so noble as to pass that deal up because of the re-records?

I disagree Dan...if you go back through the years, Friga and Fro constantly dropped hints that they wanted to rerecord this stuff. Hell, they actually recorded this shit with Augeri and Soto. In fact, IIRC, Soto said as much...that they wanted to rerecord this stuff and release it. The Walmart requirement gave them the excuse to actually do it. However, I really do remember them going on record as saying it was something they planned to do all along...

I thought they said they wanted to re-record the stuff more for hobby, but not for an actual release. And like you said, they did re-record them with Augeri, but never did release them. Soto as well. Doesn't that lend to the theory that it was more of a hobby thing? That's the way I see it. On the contrary, though, wasn't there some sort of possible legal timetable that Nostrildamus made them sign that they were waiting for to expire? That could explain why they may not have been able to do so earlier. I think they may have signed something in 1983 that had a 25 year expiration date on it. No way Snuffleperrygus could have envisioned these guys still performing. I sure didn't!

[Jana]

They threw a disc of shitty retreads into the mix just to amplify the effect...and it's sad.

I think that is incorrect, Frank. Neal is on record as saying that they didn't want to re-record anything, but Walmart insisted and without the re-records there was no deal. The deal was simply too lucrative to pass up. Do you think any other group would have been so noble as to pass that deal up because of the re-records?

I disagree Dan...if you go back through the years, Friga and Fro constantly dropped hints that they wanted to rerecord this stuff. Hell, they actually recorded this shit with Augeri and Soto. In fact, IIRC, Soto said as much...that they wanted to rerecord this stuff and release it. The Walmart requirement gave them the excuse to actually do it. However, I really do remember them going on record as saying it was something they planned to do all along...

From what I've read in interviews, it was what St. John said, Wal-Mart is the one that wanted the remakes with only a few new songs thrown in. So it probably would have been one CD. In fact, if I remember correctly, a few of the guys in the band were very resistent to do this. Of course, Neal does look at the almighty dollar. Neal and Jon decided to add more songs to make a completely separate record.

Of course, this could have gone horribly wrong. They lucked out because Arnel did justice to the re-recordings of the classics in power and the tenor voice. To the long-time Perry/Journey fans, naturally they won't listen to the second CD b/c Steve Perry was the gold standard and have all Journey's music, so why listen to a remake by someone else, or maybe like a couple, but are really just buying it for the new CD.

But there's a lot of people out there who have not kept up with the band, a very casual fan, heard a few songs on the radio, whatnot, who didn't even know Journey was still around, or didn't know Journey at all, to where it would not be an issue and enjoy the second CD. But if they had another singer who couldn't even come close to Perry on the sound, they would have made fools of themselves even to the casual Journey audience. And keep in mind, the deal with Wal-Mart was b/f Arnel, and they had no singer. So, obviously, they took the deal for money. Neal has a lot of child support and alimony to pay . They're lucky this decision didn't come back to bite them in the _ _ _, and to me the only reason it didn't is because of Arnel and the decision to do a full CD of new songs, well, except FITH.

[amaron]

IIRC, they DID re-record a lot of older songs with Augeri when he first joined.

[stevew2]

IIRC, they DID re-record a lot of older songs with Augeri when he first joined.

that was in case they were needed later for lipping, thats why they do it, hobby my ass, id like to hear it though

[donnaplease]

From what I've read in interviews, it was what St. John said, Wal-Mart is the one that wanted the remakes with only a few new songs thrown in. So it probably would have been one CD. In fact, if I remember correctly, a few of the guys in the band were very resistent to do this. Of course, Neal does look at the almighty dollar. Neal and Jon decided to add more songs to make a completely separate record.

Of course, this could have gone horribly wrong. They lucked out because Arnel did justice to the re-recordings of the classics in power and the tenor voice. To the long-time Perry/Journey fans, naturally they won't listen to the second CD b/c Steve Perry was the gold standard and have all Journey's music, so why listen to a remake by someone else, or maybe like a couple, but are really just buying it for the new CD.

But there's a lot of people out there who have not kept up with the band, a very casual fan, heard a few songs on the radio, whatnot, who didn't even know Journey was still around, or didn't know Journey at all, to where it would not be an issue and enjoy the second CD. But if they had another singer who couldn't even come close to Perry on the sound, they would have made fools of themselves even to the casual Journey audience. And keep in mind, the deal with Wal-Mart was b/f Arnel, and they had no singer. So, obviously, they took the deal for money. Neal has a lot of child support and alimony to pay . They're lucky this decision didn't come back to bite them in the _ _ _, and to me the only reason it didn't is because of Arnel and the decision to do a full CD of new songs, well, except FITH.

Don't be so quick to believe the interviews, Jana. First, they have proven themselves to speak out both sides of their asses in interviews (how many 'real deal' singers can there really be?). Second, I recall very clearly that there was talk of re-recording with JSS. I don't know this as fact, but it seems like there was a problem with them doing it, legally-speaking, at the time. I'm sure there are folks here more in-the-know about it than me, though. I just don't trust in anything they say any more.

[stevew2]

From what I've read in interviews, it was what St. John said, Wal-Mart is the one that wanted the remakes with only a few new songs thrown in. So it probably would have been one CD. In fact, if I remember correctly, a few of the guys in the band were very resistent to do this. Of course, Neal does look at the almighty dollar. Neal and Jon decided to add more songs to make a completely separate record.

Of course, this could have gone horribly wrong. They lucked out because Arnel did justice to the re-recordings of the classics in power and the tenor voice. To the long-time Perry/Journey fans, naturally they won't listen to the second CD b/c Steve Perry was the gold standard and have all Journey's music, so why listen to a remake by someone else, or maybe like a couple, but are really just buying it for the new CD.

But there's a lot of people out there who have not kept up with the band, a very casual fan, heard a few songs on the radio, whatnot, who didn't even know Journey was still around, or didn't know Journey at all, to where it would not be an issue and enjoy the second CD. But if they had another singer who couldn't even come close to Perry on the sound, they would have made fools of themselves even to the casual Journey audience. And keep in mind, the deal with Wal-Mart was b/f Arnel, and they had no singer. So, obviously, they took the deal for money. Neal has a lot of child support and alimony to pay . They're lucky this decision didn't come back to bite them in the _ _ _, and to me the only reason it didn't is because of Arnel and the decision to do a full CD of new songs, well, except FITH.

Don't be so quick to believe the interviews, Jana. First, they have proven themselves to speak out both sides of their asses in interviews (how many 'real deal' singers can there really be?). Second, I recall very clearly that there was talk of re-recording with JSS. I don't know this as fact, but it seems like there was a problem with them doing it, legally-speaking, at the time. I'm sure there are folks here more in-the-know about it than me, though. I just don't trust in anything they say any more.

On there next interveiw id like to see somethere with a Zapper and shock neal and leonard ever time they lie.i can smell the burnt flesh

[G.I.Jim]

From what I've read in interviews, it was what St. John said, Wal-Mart is the one that wanted the remakes with only a few new songs thrown in. So it probably would have been one CD. In fact, if I remember correctly, a few of the guys in the band were very resistent to do this. Of course, Neal does look at the almighty dollar. Neal and Jon decided to add more songs to make a completely separate record.

Of course, this could have gone horribly wrong. They lucked out because Arnel did justice to the re-recordings of the classics in power and the tenor voice. To the long-time Perry/Journey fans, naturally they won't listen to the second CD b/c Steve Perry was the gold standard and have all Journey's music, so why listen to a remake by someone else, or maybe like a couple, but are really just buying it for the new CD.

But there's a lot of people out there who have not kept up with the band, a very casual fan, heard a few songs on the radio, whatnot, who didn't even know Journey was still around, or didn't know Journey at all, to where it would not be an issue and enjoy the second CD. But if they had another singer who couldn't even come close to Perry on the sound, they would have made fools of themselves even to the casual Journey audience. And keep in mind, the deal with Wal-Mart was b/f Arnel, and they had no singer. So, obviously, they took the deal for money. Neal has a lot of child support and alimony to pay . They're lucky this decision didn't come back to bite them in the _ _ _, and to me the only reason it didn't is because of Arnel and the decision to do a full CD of new songs, well, except FITH.

Don't be so quick to believe the interviews, Jana. First, they have proven themselves to speak out both sides of their asses in interviews (how many 'real deal' singers can there really be?). Second, I recall very clearly that there was talk of re-recording with JSS. I don't know this as fact, but it seems like there was a problem with them doing it, legally-speaking, at the time. I'm sure there are folks here more in-the-know about it than me, though. I just don't trust in anything they say any more.

On there next interveiw id like to see somethere with a Zapper and shock neal and leonard ever time they lie.i can smell the burnt flesh

Don't you mean you'd rather Cain be more like Pinnochio? You'd bend over in front of him, and keep making him say he likes Perry?

[stevew2]

From what I've read in interviews, it was what St. John said, Wal-Mart is the one that wanted the remakes with only a few new songs thrown in. So it probably would have been one CD. In fact, if I remember correctly, a few of the guys in the band were very resistent to do this. Of course, Neal does look at the almighty dollar. Neal and Jon decided to add more songs to make a completely separate record.

Of course, this could have gone horribly wrong. They lucked out because Arnel did justice to the re-recordings of the classics in power and the tenor voice. To the long-time Perry/Journey fans, naturally they won't listen to the second CD b/c Steve Perry was the gold standard and have all Journey's music, so why listen to a remake by someone else, or maybe like a couple, but are really just buying it for the new CD.

But there's a lot of people out there who have not kept up with the band, a very casual fan, heard a few songs on the radio, whatnot, who didn't even know Journey was still around, or didn't know Journey at all, to where it would not be an issue and enjoy the second CD. But if they had another singer who couldn't even come close to Perry on the sound, they would have made fools of themselves even to the casual Journey audience. And keep in mind, the deal with Wal-Mart was b/f Arnel, and they had no singer. So, obviously, they took the deal for money. Neal has a lot of child support and alimony to pay . They're lucky this decision didn't come back to bite them in the _ _ _, and to me the only reason it didn't is because of Arnel and the decision to do a full CD of new songs, well, except FITH.

Don't be so quick to believe the interviews, Jana. First, they have proven themselves to speak out both sides of their asses in interviews (how many 'real deal' singers can there really be?). Second, I recall very clearly that there was talk of re-recording with JSS. I don't know this as fact, but it seems like there was a problem with them doing it, legally-speaking, at the time. I'm sure there are folks here more in-the-know about it than me, though. I just don't trust in anything they say any more.

On there next interveiw id like to see somethere with a Zapper and shock neal and leonard ever time they lie.i can smell the burnt flesh

Don't you mean you'd rather Cain be more like Pinnochio? You'd bend over in front of him, and keep making him say he likes Perry?

im an anal virgin you know that sarge,if frigas nose was like pinnochios, his nose would be as long as John Holmes clam shreader

[strangegrey]

On the contrary, though, wasn't there some sort of possible legal timetable that Nostrildamus made them sign that they were waiting for to expire? That could explain why they may not have been able to do so earlier. I think they may have signed something in 1983 that had a 25 year expiration date on it. No way Snuffleperrygus could have envisioned these guys still performing. I sure didn't!

THIS, I believe, is more the truth than any thing else you've said. Friga and Fro *wanted* to redo this shite....but Nostril-face would have fucking sued them into the stone age. Really...once that time statute expired...well, you know the rest.

They are desperate to write Nose-bump out of Journey history along with every other non-cowering singer they have had. The problem they face is that the press or the local chapter of the CVLP (crusty-vag loon population) wont let them do it...

[Rockindeano]

I think that is incorrect, Frank. Neal is on record as saying that they didn't want to re-record anything,

I can tell you personally he has said he wanted to do rerecords many times. They were hyping this idea in 2006. I am a ever present witness to this many times over.

[Saint John]

I think that is incorrect, Frank. Neal is on record as saying that they didn't want to re-record anything,

I can tell you personally he has said he wanted to do rerecords many times. They were hyping this idea in 2006. I am a ever present witness to this many times over.

I believe you. I meant as far as re-recording and releasing it. I don't think he wanted to do that...but I could be wrong.

[stevew2]

I think that is incorrect, Frank. Neal is on record as saying that they didn't want to re-record anything,

I can tell you personally he has said he wanted to do rerecords many times. They were hyping this idea in 2006. I am a ever present witness to this many times over.

I assumeing with Jeff ?

[Rockindeano]

On the contrary, though, wasn't there some sort of possible legal timetable that Nostrildamus made them sign that they were waiting for to expire? That could explain why they may not have been able to do so earlier. I think they may have signed something in 1983 that had a 25 year expiration date on it. No way Snuffleperrygus could have envisioned these guys still performing. I sure didn't!

THIS, I believe, is more the truth than any thing else you've said. Friga and Fro *wanted* to redo this shite....but Nostril-face would have fucking sued them into the stone age. Really...once that time statute expired...well, you know the rest.

Let's ease off the Perry names shall we? Seriously, wasn't there a backlash about all the Neal midget bullshit and the Cain takes it in his ass stuff? Perry isn't perfect, and he may have a slightly larger beak, but come on already Perry haters-you know the truth; if not for him, there is no talk of Journey now- period. Besides, have you not noticed that bigger noses are usually on the best singers? Perry, Streisand, etc?

Now as to your comment Frank, about Perry wanting to sue them into next year. Damned right he would and should! They fucked up classic songs! They took perfect recordings, hit songs, you know, the songs that actually charted, and fucked them up. They didn't make them better. They just simply remade them, in order to say to Steve, "fuck off." Real big of them wouldn't you say? God, I know both sides are not without fault, but how anyone can still be a fan of Neal or Cain is beyond me. There aren't two more ruthless heartless motherfuckers in the music industry, unless you count Azoff. Real classy bunch of guys you got there. No wonder Steve wiould never come back. Can you blame him?

[Rick]

I think that is incorrect, Frank. Neal is on record as saying that they didn't want to re-record anything,

I can tell you personally he has said he wanted to do rerecords many times. They were hyping this idea in 2006. I am a ever present witness to this many times over.

I believe you. I meant as far as re-recording and releasing it. I don't think he wanted to do that...but I could be wrong.

That cuts Perry out of the loop, except for his writing royalty. Which, by all accounts, should be done if he's no longer with the band.

[Rockindeano]

I think that is incorrect, Frank. Neal is on record as saying that they didn't want to re-record anything,

I can tell you personally he has said he wanted to do rerecords many times. They were hyping this idea in 2006. I am a ever present witness to this many times over.

I believe you. I meant as far as re-recording and releasing it. I don't think he wanted to do that...but I could be wrong.

I obviously can't go into specifics Dan, but yeah, he really wanted to go in and do it and "get it out there." As a matter of fact..err, biting my lip here.. nevermind argh!

[Saint John]

Let's ease off the Perry names shall we?

Fuck that!!!

Seriously, wasn't there a backlash about all the Neal midget bullshit and the Cain takes it in his ass stuff?

Yeah, after several million references. By that math, Perry has a lot of catching up to do!!!

They didn't make them better.

I like 2 of the re-records better.

They just simply remade them, in order to say to Steve, "fuck off." Real big of them wouldn't you say?

Payback for him intentionally destroying the Rolie/Chalfant lineup and promising to record and tour when he never had any such intentions.

how anyone can still be a fan of Neal or Cain is beyond me. There aren't two more ruthless heartless motherfuckers in the music industry, unless you count Azoff.

Who cares? I go to the concerts because they're still good and I enjoyed the new album.

No wonder Steve would never come back. Can you blame him?

My guess is because he can no longer sing the songs remotely close to their original keys. The dude's voice is fried. I believe Herbie when he says that Perry went to all of the greatest vocal coaches in the world and it's simply just not there any more.

[Saint John]

I obviously can't go into specifics Dan, but yeah, he really wanted to go in and do it and "get it out there."

Ok, I respect that.

[strangegrey]

Woah, a whole load of fun stuff here. Here goes:

Let's ease off the Perry names shall we?

But dude, it's so much fun!
Seriously, though, you're right. Can't fault the voice....I can still bash the shite out of the loons? right?

Seriously, wasn't there a backlash about all the Neal midget bullshit and the Cain takes it in his ass stuff?

Maybe about Neal being a midget, but no-one EVER flicked an eyelash about Cain getting stuffed in the pooper. That's not only understood, but expected...I mean, come on....you of all people should know that Cain's an anal pirate!

Now as to your comment Frank, about Perry wanting to sue them into next year. Damned right he would and should! They fucked up classic songs! They took perfect recordings, hit songs, you know, the songs that actually charted, and fucked them up. They didn't make them better. They just simply remade them, in order to say to Steve, "fuck off." Real big of them wouldn't you say? God, I know both sides are not without fault, but how anyone can still be a fan of Neal or Cain is beyond me. There aren't two more ruthless heartless motherfuckers in the music industry, unless you count Azoff. Real classy bunch of guys you got there. No wonder Steve wiould never come back. Can you blame him?

You are absolutely correct about Perry wanting to sue them and should sue them. While I make no appologies for holding all three kings in high disdain, Perry did one thing that Fro and that faggot fairy mother fucker behind the whale NEVER did...and that's protect the legacy of this once-great band....and not only that, but Friga and Fro actively piss on it repeatedly.

It's sad...and I can't fault Mr Muzzle for doing what he has done...because if he didnt....Friga and Fro would be out selling "Journey the board game" and hiring Wayne Newton to play Steve Perry in "Journey the Movie". We'd all be wiping our asses with "Journey the toilet paper" and some of us would be fucking with the aide of "Journey glide"

[strangegrey]

They didn't make them better.

I like 2 of the re-records better.

Crack Pipe...dan...put down the crack pipe...it doesn't do you any good...really...I have some people you can call for help....

[S2M]

What number is bigger? Units sold: Revelation? Or Lion seasons tickets being returned?

I'm gonna have to go with the latter......

[Saint John]

While I make no appologies for holding all three kings in high disdain, Perry did one thing that Fro and that faggot fairy mother fucker behind the whale NEVER did...and that's protect the legacy of this once-great band....and not only that, but Friga and Fro actively piss on it repeatedly.

You think touring with a gaggle of bums on the FTLOSM tour singing Journey songs was "protecting the legacy of the band?" Additionally, would you say that deep sixing Chalfant and Rolie, and firing Herbie looked favorably on the band's legacy? Or what about promising to tour circa TBF and then falling down and going boom?

While Schon and Cain might have dribbled some piss on the band's legacy like an after-piss shake, the only one person that ever really pissed on the legacy of the band was the man that stood up there and sang into a microphone that wasn't in the mix. Though I do believe that Cain was also lipping Every Generation...but that shitty song doesn't count!!!

[Saint John]

They didn't make them better.

I like 2 of the re-records better.

Crack Pipe...dan...put down the crack pipe...it doesn't do you any good...really...I have some people you can call for help....

How'd you know I was out?!?!

[Rockindeano]

Let's ease off the Perry names shall we?

But dude, it's so much fun!
Seriously, though, you're right. Can't fault the voice....I can still bash the shite out of the loons? right?

You can, but I happen to know two that I cherish very much. The rest, fuck em.

Seriously, wasn't there a backlash about all the Neal midget bullshit and the Cain takes it in his ass stuff?

Maybe about Neal being a midget, but no-one EVER flicked an eyelash about Cain getting stuffed in the pooper. That's not only understood, but expected...I mean, come on....you of all people should know that Cain's an anal pirate!

Dude, I hate that asshole and Neal, but as I told Andrew, nobody wants a poster to post just for hate's sake. That gets really old doesn't it? I will say in my defense, that I never ever put down Neal and Jon's abilities. They can hold their own quite well.

It's sad...and I can't fault Mr Muzzle for doing what he has done...because if he didnt....Friga and Fro would be out selling "Journey the board game" and hiring Wayne Newton to play Steve Perry in "Journey the Movie". We'd all be wiping our asses with "Journey the toilet paper" and some of us would be fucking with the aide of "Journey glide"

Hell, they do it already! Journey soap? Journey candles? You have got to be shitting me? They are worse than Nascar, but there is one big difference- Nascar actually sells their stuff. Journey offers it for sale, it sits there at Nomato, collects dust, and then maybe a fan buys it for 90% off.

[bluejeangirl76]

I can still bash the shite out of the loons? right?

That's when you're at your best. Except for when you invent new names for Twinkle Fingers Cain.

[Rockindeano]

You think touring with a gaggle of bums on the FTLOSM tour singing Journey songs was "protecting the legacy of the band?"

Perry's band wasn't bad at all. They got the job done. No it wasn't Journey, but what do you want Perry to do, go out and hire bands that had broken up, like Bad Company, Glass Tiger, Hell, he should have called Bruce and borrowed the Fuckin E Street Band, right? C'mon!?

Additionally, would you say that deep sixing Chalfant and Rolie, and firing Herbie looked favorably on the band's legacy? Or what about promising to tour circa TBF and then falling down and going boom?

First off, screw Chalfant. I hope TNC doesn't see this, but fuck him. He looks like Jimmy Page on vocals, and is a nice enough guy, but IMO, Perry really did not want the band to go on without him..he was buying time I believe, to get things in order. That was "his" band, make no mistake about it. he had the reigns, he was the reason people came to see them. He called the shots. Contrary to what we all have heard, I don't buy the democratic BS thrown around...Perry was the leader, he was the Bruce of Journey.
As for the TBF injury? I believe the man to the fullest. He had no reason to lie. You can't assume he was on an all out evil destroy mission. That's a bit over the top.

While Schon and Cain might have dribbled some piss on the band's legacy like an after-piss shake, the only one person that ever really pissed on the legacy of the band was the man that stood up there and sang into a microphone that wasn't in the mix. Though I do believe that Cain was also lipping Every Generation...but that shitty song doesn't count!!!

Oh boy, this topic again. I have softened on this one, alot. While I was all out to get Augeri's dick in a jar, dude, you have any idea whose idea it was to lip? Go ahead and guess. And while you're at it, think about this- Neal, Cain-Friga, Valory, and Castronovo, not to mention Elson, all went along with it. They were all responsible, equally. You don't think others in the industry didn't know about this? Just because it never made front page entertainment news, people in music knew. Ask Sammy Hagar what he thinks about it. Disgusting. You think those guys have the respect from their peers? hell no they don't.

[Rockindeano]

I can still bash the shite out of the loons? right?

That's when you're at your best. Except for when you invent new names for Twinkle Fingers Cain.

For the record, and Frank can validate this; I came up with "Twinkle toed cocksucker behind the gay whale."

[S2M]

You think touring with a gaggle of bums on the FTLOSM tour singing Journey songs was "protecting the legacy of the band?"

Perry's band wasn't bad at all. They got the job done. No it wasn't Journey, but what do you want Perry to do, go out and hire bands that had broken up, like Bad Company, Glass Tiger, Hell, he should have called Bruce and borrowed the Fuckin E Street Band, right? C'mon!?

Additionally, would you say that deep sixing Chalfant and Rolie, and firing Herbie looked favorably on the band's legacy? Or what about promising to tour circa TBF and then falling down and going boom?

First off, screw Chalfant. I hope TNC doesn't see this, but fuck him. He looks like Jimmy Page on vocals, and is a nice enough guy, but IMO, Perry really did not want the band to go on without him..he was buying time I believe, to get things in order. That was "his" band, make no mistake about it. he had the reigns, he was the reason people came to see them. He called the shots. Contrary to what we all have heard, I don't buy the democratic BS thrown around...Perry was the leader, he was the Bruce of Journey.
As for the TBF injury? I believe the man to the fullest. He had no reason to lie. You can't assume he was on an all out evil destroy mission. That's a bit over the top.

While Schon and Cain might have dribbled some piss on the band's legacy like an after-piss shake, the only one person that ever really pissed on the legacy of the band was the man that stood up there and sang into a microphone that wasn't in the mix. Though I do believe that Cain was also lipping Every Generation...but that shitty song doesn't count!!!

Oh boy, this topic again. I have softened on this one, alot. While I was all out to get Augeri's dick in a jar, dude, you have any idea whose idea it was to lip? Go ahead and guess. And while you're at it, think about this- Neal, Cain-Friga, Valory, and Castronovo, not to mention Elson, all went along with it. They were all responsible, equally. You don't think others in the industry didn't know about this? Just because it never made front page entertainment news, people in music knew. Ask Sammy Hagar what he thinks about it. Disgusting. You think those guys have the respect from their peers? hell no they don't.

I'm still a bit hazy on how exactly they got away with the lipping. Pre-recorded singing would sound different than live. In concert a singer is bound to at least appear out of breath a few times during the show. And there was never an equipment failure to 'out' him? Never a screw up?

[Matthew]

Additionally, would you say that deep sixing Chalfant and Rolie, and firing Herbie looked favorably on the band's legacy?

Yes. I do.

[Rockindeano]

I'm still a bit hazy on how exactly they got away with the lipping. Pre-recorded singing would sound different than live. In concert a singer is bound to at least appear out of breath a few times during the show. And there was never an equipment failure to 'out' him? Never a screw up?

Sure about that?

I'll let someone else comment on this.