Revelations sales totals

[strangegrey]

Revelation was just awarded platinum status on 12/18/2008, 4 days ago.

Terrific! So it's officially RIAA certified then? And for the record, I don't care how they did it, that's still quite an achievement for a band that's changed lead singers 3 times in the past decade!

I wonder if AC/DC's Black Ice has gone Platinum yet?

Yes, it's official, as per RIAA's website...4 days ago on the 18th. However, I still maintain that it was a cheap and classless way to get there, given the fact that the disc of retreads was recorded for pennies on Friga's garage tascam and the whole thing was sold at half the price a regular single CD sells for at Best Buy.

The RIAA certification, taken at face value, should be about comparability between artists releases...and it's anything but comparable. For revelation's *true* impact to be measured against other platinum releases, a weighted average which takes into consideration cost and number of discs, should be used....

until then, the so-called "number" used to certify a release with a gold, platinum or diamond award is meaningless...

[Red13JoePa]

You (and I) would have been all for the certification if Revelation had been fronted by Augeri Frank.

[strangegrey]

You (and I) would have been all for the certification if Revelation had been fronted by Augeri Frank.

bullshit!

I'm *not* against certification...I'm against the basis of measurement used for certification....It's not a comparable measurement and it never was...

Would I have liked to see Augeri's fronted Journey meet with success back in 2001? Sure. Would I have been ignorant to the lack of comparability presented with the band taking advantage of RIAA rules for certification? Yes I would. But the reason I would be ignorant, was that Arrival was not a 2 disc set being sold at 9 dollars. I had zero reason or suspicion to educate myself of the RIAA certification rules...and I would be just as ignorant to the issue as every other schmoe out there that simply accepted Arrival's total sales at face value....

But don't suggest that my self-admitted ignorance to this issue in 2001, was simply because I looked away from the truth because I was a 'supporter.' Something I feel the Arnel crickets are doing with reckless abandon.

The current fact-pattern surrounding Revelation has forced me to recently educate myself on how the RIAA weighs its measurement. An objective look into this is all one needs to realize that the way they measure success with album sales is flawed.

So after taking this flawed measurement into consideration, Arrival's sales *is* comparable to other Journey releases (excluding Revelation) or other releases by other artists.

Revelation is not....look at it objectively. It's clear to see....

[Rockindeano]

You (and I) would have been all for the certification if Revelation had been fronted by Augeri Frank.

LOL, it never would have gotten there if Arnel hadn't fronted it.

[strangegrey]

You (and I) would have been all for the certification if Revelation had been fronted by Augeri Frank.

LOL, it never would have gotten there if Arnel hadn't fronted it.

It is impossible to make that statement. For all you or anyone else knows, Arnel is no different a factor in this equation than Augeri or JSS. Which is my whole point of contention here....Until someone comes up with a fairly reliable model to approximate the number of albums NOT purchased had Revelations been offered at full price...No one is comparing shit.

Revelation might have sold less than Arrival. No one knows.....and no cricket can come in here and bitch and moan about how Arnel is the X-factor, because no one has done the comparison equal justice...

[Don]

[quote=strangegrey]

Revelation was just awarded platinum status on 12/18/2008, 4 days ago.

Terrific! So it's officially RIAA certified then? And for the record, I don't care how they did it, that's still quite an achievement for a band that's changed lead singers 3 times in the past decade!

I wonder if AC/DC's Black Ice has gone Platinum yet?[/quote]

Certified 2x Platinum by the RIAA on Dec. 08, after only 8 weeks on the charts and ONLY ONE DISC.

[strangegrey]

I wonder if AC/DC's Black Ice has gone Platinum yet?

Certified 2x Platinum by the RIAA on Dec. 08, after only 8 weeks on the charts and ONLY ONE DISC.

Right, but still at that walmart cheap price...so comparability is still impacted...

[Ehwmatt]

Revelation was just awarded platinum status on 12/18/2008, 4 days ago.

Terrific! So it's officially RIAA certified then? And for the record, I don't care how they did it, that's still quite an achievement for a band that's changed lead singers 3 times in the past decade!

I wonder if AC/DC's Black Ice has gone Platinum yet?

Yes, it's official, as per RIAA's website...4 days ago on the 18th. However, I still maintain that it was a cheap and classless way to get there, given the fact that the disc of retreads was recorded for pennies on Friga's garage tascam and the whole thing was sold at half the price a regular single CD sells for at Best Buy.

We can't measure how much impact the disc of re-records had on the sales, at least not definitively, unless there's some kind of poll out there I'm unaware of (doubt it-how could they conduct it?). I know here in Cleveland Never Walk Away was #1 on 98.5 WNCX's (the flagship classic rock station) playlist for a lot of the summer and AATY got a good amount of airplay on AC radio.

But anyway, I bolded your "half price" argument because I don't agree with it. In general, they are not stocking Best Buy shelves with $17-18 CDs anymore. They've realized they can't get away with it any more, no one's buying. Shit, I don't think even The Eagles Long Road out of Eden disc would have been as big of a success if it were priced at 2001 prices. A $9-12 CD with plenty of content beyond the obvious 10-12 new tracks is the new business model when it comes to selling CDs - whether it be a double CD, a CD+Live CD+DVD package (ala Find Your Own Way Home), a 2 CD+DVD package (Revs) etc. You can't use that to denigrate the sales success of the album. The other arguments might have some validity, I can't tell you for sure about those, but the pricing argument is asinine.

[Don]

I wonder if AC/DC's Black Ice has gone Platinum yet?

Certified 2x Platinum by the RIAA on Dec. 08, after only 8 weeks on the charts and ONLY ONE DISC.

Right, but still at that walmart cheap price...so comparability is still impacted...

It's only two dollars cheaper than Coldplay's new album at Best Buy and actually a dollar more than Amazon's price for Black Ice. I think the impact is minimal, though as you stay, still a factor but not even close to the three disc set pricing Walmart applied to Journey's package.

[Rockindeano]

You (and I) would have been all for the certification if Revelation had been fronted by Augeri Frank.

LOL, it never would have gotten there if Arnel hadn't fronted it.

It is impossible to make that statement. For all you or anyone else knows, Arnel is no different a factor in this equation than Augeri or JSS. Which is my whole point of contention here....

Yeah, I can't prove that an Arnel fronted album would have sold a lot more than an Augeri one, but look at the dynamics in play here. Journey did something unusual and sensational, in getting a singer, a foreign singer no less, via the internet! That has never before been done. The press, either printed or television, picked it up and gave it legs in the form of attention. That attention led to some shedded light onto the band, who previously was in the cold stoned darkness. No one outside MR or Jackasstalk knew Journey was even around. The Arnel hiring, which I still think was a good hire(the guy is great), was instrumental in getting that thing to sell at all, and then when people did actually hear the voice and the semi similar sounds to Perry, they hammed it up. Without an sensationalized hiring of Pineda, this thing doesn't see gold.

[strangegrey]

But anyway, I bolded your "half price" argument because I don't agree with it. In general, they are not stocking Best Buy shelves with $17-18 CDs anymore. They've realized they can't get away with it any more, no one's buying.

Not any more...the retailers, lead by best buy, have started to take a cut...in order to compete...as the record companies wont cut their margins.

This is precisely what destroyed Tower Records. Tower used to regularly sell CDs at 18-19 bucks. When Best Buy came around, they couldn't afford to take a hit to their prices, because their cost structure wouldn't allow it. BOOM --- no more tower records. Fuck em anyway, they didn't deserve to stick around.

As for the Half price comment. The standard price for a best buy CD, not on sale or reduced to spur on x-mas purchasing....is 15.99. Half of 15.99 is 8 bucks. Sure I'm doing some rounding here....but the fact remains that half of 15.99 is pretty damn close.

If you want to take issue with me using 1/2, how about 40%? 40% accounts for a significant and material difference.

Are you going to argue over the language I use or whether or not the gyst of what I'm driving at is acurate enough to suggest there's a difference. I'll submit, that it really doesn't matter.

It's enough of a difference to cast reasonable doubt as to whether or not Revelation, regularly priced at 15.99, could have realized north of 500k units. It's not too difficult to suggest it wouldn't have sold nearly as many units....

You (and I) would have been all for the certification if Revelation had been fronted by Augeri Frank.

LOL, it never would have gotten there if Arnel hadn't fronted it.

It is impossible to make that statement. For all you or anyone else knows, Arnel is no different a factor in this equation than Augeri or JSS. Which is my whole point of contention here....

Yeah, I can't prove that an Arnel fronted album would have sold a lot more than an Augeri one, but look at the dynamics in play here. Journey did something unusual and sensational, in getting a singer, a foreign singer no less, via the internet! That has never before been done. The press, either printed or television, picked it up and gave it legs in the form of attention. That attention led to some shedded light onto the band, who previously was in the cold stoned darkness. No one outside MR or Jackasstalk knew Journey was even around. The Arnel hiring, which I still think was a good hire(the guy is great), was instrumental in getting that thing to sell at all, and then when people did actually hear the voice and the semi similar sounds to Perry, they hammed it up. Without an sensationalized hiring of Pineda, this thing doesn't see gold.

Totally agree with you Dean...as I agree that the promotion of Arnel's story helped sales as much as promoting the record itself. I will submit that this sorta 'hype' doesn't last very long. The next record, if there is one...will be *very* telling.

[Saint John]

Really?
Worldwide sales (Obviously the TBF sales have been updated...or is that what it really sold? I never bought that Platinum bullshit for that album. No one bought it.
Frontiers: 32.4 million
Escape: 19.8 million
Greatest Hits: 13.0 million
Infinity: 7.2 million
Evolution: 6.6 million
Departure: 6.3 miilion
Raised On Radio: 3.0 million
Trial By Fire: 500,000

These numbers are NOT correct Dan. For fucks sake, the LAST thing you should be doing here is trying to support your argument with invented bullshit. Holy fuck!!!!!


The highest RIAA certification that Frontiers has is 6x plantinum, meaning 6 million copies. While that certification is about 11 years old, I HIGHLY doubt it's sold enough copies to reach 7 million, as almost all REPUTABLE sites put frontiers sales in between 6 and 7 million.

The ONLY Journey record certified at DIAMOND, which is 10X platinum, is the Greatest hits, at 15 million copies sold.

Last count Escape was certified 9x platinum at 9 million...

Infinity was certified 3x platinum....So was departure and evolution.

Raised on Radio got 2x platinum...

TBF is at 1x platinum....


Revelation was just awarded platinum status on 12/18/2008, 4 days ago.



Assuming we "round down" to each album's certification status...which is a fair thing to do, to remove any cvnt-hair of doubt and play with HARD numbers, here's how things TRULY stand:

Greatest Hits: 15 million
Escape: 9 million
Frontiers: 6 million
Departure: 3 million
Infinity: 3 million
Evolution: 3 million
Captured: 2 million (although this has to be fishy, as I recall this was a double album, but sold as a single CD)
ROR: 2 million
TBF: 1 million
Revelation: 1 million (but we all know that they really sold, as per this certification, only 500k copies)




So take that 32 million for frontiers, 19 million for Escape, 13 million for Greatest Hits....and all of your other highly inflated numbers....and really....shove them up your ass. (or anywhere else you might enjoy it! )


If you want to cite true numbers to make a point, do yourself the favor of researching them before trying to make a point with them. This sorta thing goes for anyone here!!

2 things, Francis:

1) I didn't post the numbers.
2) They are supposed WORLDWIDE sales, so take all of your long-winded U.S. RIAA sales and jam them up your urethra!!!
2a) Last I heard, Journey was around 85 million in WORLDWIDE album sales, so these numbers do make sense. Take "Thriller" for example. RIAA has it at around 26 million, but Worldwide it's around 60 million. Get it now?

[Tito]

All I can say is correct moves all around by the Journey camp for the past 18 months. Vindicated!

Good job guys. Couldn't have happened to better people too.

[bluejeangirl76]

All I can say is correct moves all around by the Journey camp for the past 18 months. Vindicated!

Good job guys. Couldn't have happened to better people too.

I can't wait until Dean reads this. Where's my pop and snacks?

[S2M]

Ok...that made me laugh!

If nothing else, we can agree that he had a phenominal voice and co-wrote songs that are proving to be timeless. The dude thinks he gave the band the best years of his life and I can't argue with that. His oversight of the Houston '81 DVD gave every Journey fan something they'd been wanting for years. He delivered in spades. If it's not enough for some, then screw 'em!!

Greatest voice I've ever heard and I think Journey from 1981-1983 was the greatest band ever.

Hell, that wasn't even the best years for Journey....'78-'80, braa.....you heard it here.

[Rockindeano]

All I can say is correct moves all around by the Journey camp for the past 18 months. Vindicated!

Good job guys. Couldn't have happened to better people too.

I can't wait until Dean reads this. Where's my pop and snacks?

I just skip over it. It's all schtick. Anyone who knows these clowns wouldn't piss on them if their guts were on fire. They're anything but good people.

[Saint John]

Ok...that made me laugh!

If nothing else, we can agree that he had a phenominal voice and co-wrote songs that are proving to be timeless. The dude thinks he gave the band the best years of his life and I can't argue with that. His oversight of the Houston '81 DVD gave every Journey fan something they'd been wanting for years. He delivered in spades. If it's not enough for some, then screw 'em!!

Greatest voice I've ever heard and I think Journey from 1981-1983 was the greatest band ever.

Hell, that wasn't even the best years for Journey....'78-'80, braa.....you heard it here.

Maybe you like the Perry years where he sounded like a 16 year old girl getting finger fucked for the first time...I don't.

[bluejeangirl76]

All I can say is correct moves all around by the Journey camp for the past 18 months. Vindicated!

Good job guys. Couldn't have happened to better people too.

I can't wait until Dean reads this. Where's my pop and snacks?

I just skip over it. It's all schtick. Anyone who knows these clowns wouldn't piss on them if their guts were on fire.

I would, but that's more about the pissing part than the saving lives part.

[Matthew]

You (and I) would have been all for the certification if Revelation had been fronted by Augeri Frank.

So true. For the love of God admit defeat Strangegrey....

[Tito]

All I can say is correct moves all around by the Journey camp for the past 18 months. Vindicated!

Good job guys. Couldn't have happened to better people too.

I can't wait until Dean reads this. Where's my pop and snacks?

I just skip over it. It's all schtick. Anyone who knows these clowns wouldn't piss on them if their guts were on fire. They're anything but good people.

That was Herbie talking about Perry.

[Rockindeano]

That was Herbie talking about Perry.

No, that's me talking about Neal and Jon.

[Jana]

But anyway, I bolded your "half price" argument because I don't agree with it. In general, they are not stocking Best Buy shelves with $17-18 CDs anymore. They've realized they can't get away with it any more, no one's buying.

Not any more...the retailers, lead by best buy, have started to take a cut...in order to compete...as the record companies wont cut their margins.

This is precisely what destroyed Tower Records. Tower used to regularly sell CDs at 18-19 bucks. When Best Buy came around, they couldn't afford to take a hit to their prices, because their cost structure wouldn't allow it. BOOM --- no more tower records. Fuck em anyway, they didn't deserve to stick around.

As for the Half price comment. The standard price for a best buy CD, not on sale or reduced to spur on x-mas purchasing....is 15.99. Half of 15.99 is 8 bucks. Sure I'm doing some rounding here....but the fact remains that half of 15.99 is pretty damn close.

If you want to take issue with me using 1/2, how about 40%? 40% accounts for a significant and material difference.

Are you going to argue over the language I use or whether or not the gyst of what I'm driving at is acurate enough to suggest there's a difference. I'll submit, that it really doesn't matter.

It's enough of a difference to cast reasonable doubt as to whether or not Revelation, regularly priced at 15.99, could have realized north of 500k units. It's not too difficult to suggest it wouldn't have sold nearly as many units....

You (and I) would have been all for the certification if Revelation had been fronted by Augeri Frank.

LOL, it never would have gotten there if Arnel hadn't fronted it.

It is impossible to make that statement. For all you or anyone else knows, Arnel is no different a factor in this equation than Augeri or JSS. Which is my whole point of contention here....

Yeah, I can't prove that an Arnel fronted album would have sold a lot more than an Augeri one, but look at the dynamics in play here. Journey did something unusual and sensational, in getting a singer, a foreign singer no less, via the internet! That has never before been done. The press, either printed or television, picked it up and gave it legs in the form of attention. That attention led to some shedded light onto the band, who previously was in the cold stoned darkness. No one outside MR or Jackasstalk knew Journey was even around. The Arnel hiring, which I still think was a good hire(the guy is great), was instrumental in getting that thing to sell at all, and then when people did actually hear the voice and the semi similar sounds to Perry, they hammed it up. Without an sensationalized hiring of Pineda, this thing doesn't see gold.

Totally agree with you Dean...as I agree that the promotion of Arnel's story helped sales as much as promoting the record itself. I will submit that this sorta 'hype' doesn't last very long. The next record, if there is one...will be *very* telling.

I liked Revelation. And I pray that they actually take some time and really work on writing and producing some really good music instead of just throwing something out there. This will probably be their last record for Journey at their age, and I would like to see it do well.

[Saint John]

That was Herbie talking about Perry.

No, that's me talking about Neal and Jon.

Where's the love, dude? Those guys treated you like a king.

[Don]

But anyway, I bolded your "half price" argument because I don't agree with it. In general, they are not stocking Best Buy shelves with $17-18 CDs anymore. They've realized they can't get away with it any more, no one's buying.

Not any more...the retailers, lead by best buy, have started to take a cut...in order to compete...as the record companies wont cut their margins.

This is precisely what destroyed Tower Records. Tower used to regularly sell CDs at 18-19 bucks. When Best Buy came around, they couldn't afford to take a hit to their prices, because their cost structure wouldn't allow it. BOOM --- no more tower records. Fuck em anyway, they didn't deserve to stick around.

As for the Half price comment. The standard price for a best buy CD, not on sale or reduced to spur on x-mas purchasing....is 15.99. Half of 15.99 is 8 bucks. Sure I'm doing some rounding here....but the fact remains that half of 15.99 is pretty damn close.

If you want to take issue with me using 1/2, how about 40%? 40% accounts for a significant and material difference.

Are you going to argue over the language I use or whether or not the gyst of what I'm driving at is acurate enough to suggest there's a difference. I'll submit, that it really doesn't matter.

It's enough of a difference to cast reasonable doubt as to whether or not Revelation, regularly priced at 15.99, could have realized north of 500k units. It's not too difficult to suggest it wouldn't have sold nearly as many units....

You (and I) would have been all for the certification if Revelation had been fronted by Augeri Frank.

LOL, it never would have gotten there if Arnel hadn't fronted it.

It is impossible to make that statement. For all you or anyone else knows, Arnel is no different a factor in this equation than Augeri or JSS. Which is my whole point of contention here....

Yeah, I can't prove that an Arnel fronted album would have sold a lot more than an Augeri one, but look at the dynamics in play here. Journey did something unusual and sensational, in getting a singer, a foreign singer no less, via the internet! That has never before been done. The press, either printed or television, picked it up and gave it legs in the form of attention. That attention led to some shedded light onto the band, who previously was in the cold stoned darkness. No one outside MR or Jackasstalk knew Journey was even around. The Arnel hiring, which I still think was a good hire(the guy is great), was instrumental in getting that thing to sell at all, and then when people did actually hear the voice and the semi similar sounds to Perry, they hammed it up. Without an sensationalized hiring of Pineda, this thing doesn't see gold.

Totally agree with you Dean...as I agree that the promotion of Arnel's story helped sales as much as promoting the record itself. I will submit that this sorta 'hype' doesn't last very long. The next record, if there is one...will be *very* telling.

I liked Revelation. And I pray that they actually take some time and really work on writing and producing some really good music instead of just throwing something out there. This will probably be their last album for Journey at their age, and I would like to see it do well.

Arnel needs to get some writing credits on the next one to get some kind of ongoing financial security if nothing else.

[Tito]

That was Herbie talking about Perry.

No, that's me talking about Neal and Jon.

Where's the love, dude? Those guys treated you like a king.

I will refrain from picking apart RD's statement because he used their proper names.

[S2M]

The next CD will only sell within MR, official site, and Shout Box/Phillipines......translation: a flop!

[Saint John]

But anyway, I bolded your "half price" argument because I don't agree with it. In general, they are not stocking Best Buy shelves with $17-18 CDs anymore. They've realized they can't get away with it any more, no one's buying.

Not any more...the retailers, lead by best buy, have started to take a cut...in order to compete...as the record companies wont cut their margins.

This is precisely what destroyed Tower Records. Tower used to regularly sell CDs at 18-19 bucks. When Best Buy came around, they couldn't afford to take a hit to their prices, because their cost structure wouldn't allow it. BOOM --- no more tower records. Fuck em anyway, they didn't deserve to stick around.

As for the Half price comment. The standard price for a best buy CD, not on sale or reduced to spur on x-mas purchasing....is 15.99. Half of 15.99 is 8 bucks. Sure I'm doing some rounding here....but the fact remains that half of 15.99 is pretty damn close.

If you want to take issue with me using 1/2, how about 40%? 40% accounts for a significant and material difference.

Are you going to argue over the language I use or whether or not the gyst of what I'm driving at is acurate enough to suggest there's a difference. I'll submit, that it really doesn't matter.

It's enough of a difference to cast reasonable doubt as to whether or not Revelation, regularly priced at 15.99, could have realized north of 500k units. It's not too difficult to suggest it wouldn't have sold nearly as many units....

You (and I) would have been all for the certification if Revelation had been fronted by Augeri Frank.

LOL, it never would have gotten there if Arnel hadn't fronted it.

It is impossible to make that statement. For all you or anyone else knows, Arnel is no different a factor in this equation than Augeri or JSS. Which is my whole point of contention here....

Yeah, I can't prove that an Arnel fronted album would have sold a lot more than an Augeri one, but look at the dynamics in play here. Journey did something unusual and sensational, in getting a singer, a foreign singer no less, via the internet! That has never before been done. The press, either printed or television, picked it up and gave it legs in the form of attention. That attention led to some shedded light onto the band, who previously was in the cold stoned darkness. No one outside MR or Jackasstalk knew Journey was even around. The Arnel hiring, which I still think was a good hire(the guy is great), was instrumental in getting that thing to sell at all, and then when people did actually hear the voice and the semi similar sounds to Perry, they hammed it up. Without an sensationalized hiring of Pineda, this thing doesn't see gold.

Totally agree with you Dean...as I agree that the promotion of Arnel's story helped sales as much as promoting the record itself. I will submit that this sorta 'hype' doesn't last very long. The next record, if there is one...will be *very* telling.

I liked Revelation. And I pray that they actually take some time and really work on writing and producing some really good music instead of just throwing something out there. This will probably be their last album for Journey at their age, and I would like to see it do well.

Arnel needs to get some writing credits on the next one to get some kind of ongoing financial security if nothing else.

I agree with the last 2 statements. Arnel needs to throw his hat into the ring and they need to really take their time and put out a gem. As much as I like Revelation it does have a rushed feeling to it. Probably because, by all accounts, it was!!! I'll let them slide on that one because they had commitment deadlines, but next time we should really get an all around fantastic CD.

[bluejeangirl76]

That was Herbie talking about Perry.

No, that's me talking about Neal and Jon.

Where's the love, dude? Those guys treated you like a king.

I will refrain from picking apart RD's statement because he used their proper names.

Progress on both sides! I'm proud of you boys!

[Rockindeano]

That was Herbie talking about Perry.

No, that's me talking about Neal and Jon.

Where's the love, dude? Those guys treated you like a king.

Love? Dude, I must not have told you all the shit they do and did. I will stop now, rather than make this a hate thread for those two undeserving twats. I do find it interesting that the few here, Skylorde, Frank, AlienC and myself, who did spend some adequate time with these assholes, all collectively cannot stand them. That should tell you something.

[Matthew]

Arnel needs to throw his hat into the ring and they need to really take their time and put out a gem. As much as I like Revelation it does have a rushed feeling to it. Probably because, by all accounts, it was!!! I'll let them slide on that one because they had commitment deadlines, but next time we should really get an all around fantastic CD.

No-one in the Journey camp is perfectionist enough to really go all out to create a great record. It'll be the same old "Will this do?" attitude and if it has any success at all it'll be down to the deal-making of Azoff Management...