Israel

[ebake02]

Anybody else here think Israel is going a little overboard?

[stevew2]

If someone was flinging bombs my way I go over and blow there whole fucking family away.

[AlteredDNA]

Anybody else here think Israel is going a little overboard?

Where do you think they should (or should have) stopped?

[Onestepper]

Anybody else here think Israel is going a little overboard?

No.

[Arkansas]

My gut is that Israel is taking the oppourtunity of our Presidential lame duck season. They know GW isn't going to do anything, and BO won't enter office doing anything...or they're seeing what he will do. Will Obama support them, as America has historically done, or will he do something profound? But for now, they have another month to do as they wish.

I also think they're probably going a little overboard. However, they've got to show some strength & take some territory while they can. Who knows what (Iran, Pakistan, India, et al.) that mess to their east will turn into. Btw, the Israeli's are ruthless. For every one them killed, they'll kill 100 enemies. They've never had much choice and not much to lose.


later~

[lights1961]

Anybody else here think Israel is going a little overboard?

Israel...Nope.. Israel needs to defend itself of what little they have....

Rick

[Saint John]

Israel just wants to exist. But they have to constantly defend themselves against these bomb-lobbing, rock throwing cocksuckers. They're going to unleash one these days and it's going to be ugly. I'm not a huge fan of Israel by any means, but they just want to be left alone.

[Don]

We just need that entire place to become a giant mirror. made of cooked sand. They will continue to kill each other for decades to come, better to just do it in one fell sweep and be done with it all. It's not like there aren't Arabs and Jews anywhere else in the world.

[Onestepper]

I laugh (well sort of) when I see these stories or posts about Israel's reactions to being attacked. Switch it around and think about the US response if a faction or country were lobbing bombs right and left at us. They wouldn't exist 2 days later. Period, end of story!

The fact that Israel has used such restraint over the years says alot about how willing they have been to be the world's punching bag.

[Don]

Israel was founded very much the same way America was founded, by the slow and methodical decimation of the native population that was already living there. The difference is the Palestinians have allies and aren't going away. Israel can't erase the Palestinians without the whole Arab world attacking their ass. Now of course, the Jews have WMD's but If Israel nukes their neighbors, they have the possibility of making their own land uninhabitable, so they are fucked no matter what they do.

[Matthew]

I'd say that Israel went overboard months ago when began cutting off food and medical supplies to the citizens of this entire city....

[Matthew]

Israel just wants to exist. But they have to constantly defend themselves against these bomb-lobbing, rock throwing cocksuckers. They're going to unleash one these days and it's going to be ugly. I'm not a huge fan of Israel by any means, but they just want to be left alone.

Some Israelis might want to be left alone but the trouble is....Israel has gone out of their way to encourage the Jewish settlements outside its borders...amongst numerous other invasive policies.

[RossValoryRocks]

Israel was founded very much the same way America was founded, by the slow and methodical decimation of the native population that was already living there. The difference is the Palestinians have allies and aren't going away. Israel can't erase the Palestinians without the whole Arab world attacking their ass. Now of course, the Jews have WMD's but If Israel nukes their neighbors, they have the possibility of making their own land uninhabitable, so they are fucked no matter what they do.

Bullshit: you don't know history or are deliberately mistating facts here.

Prior to 1948 there was no SUCH THING AS A PALASTINIAN!

The Palestine Mandate (controlled by Great Britain after WW2) and was the dumping ground for the scum of the Islamic world at the time, and even before during Ottoman rule. The jews had been in residence in that area FAR longer than the "palestinians".

Only when the islamic governments of the day could use the very people they abandoned did the term Palestinian come into effect.

Now if you want to consider the merits of the various plans to resettle expatriated jews after WW1, ok, but get off the high horse of the jews killed off the palestinians, because it's just not factual and historically inaccurate.

[Matthew]

I laugh (well sort of) when I see these stories or posts about Israel's reactions to being attacked. Switch it around and think about the US response if a faction or country were lobbing bombs right and left at us. They wouldn't exist 2 days later. Period, end of story!

The fact that Israel has used such restraint over the years says alot about how willing they have been to be the world's punching bag.

Restraint? What..like sending in the army to massacre hundreds of unarmed civilians in refugee camps?

And as for 'the world's punching bag'...Israel is armed to the teeth with billions of dollars worth of Western military hardware and it has possibly the most sophisticated intelligence service in the world. It has been able to behave however it likes knowing that it has the unconditional support of the world's only superpower. Yes, many Israelis have suffered terribly in these conflicts but in terms of the state I'd say enough with the victim card, Onestepper...

[Matthew]

Israel was founded very much the same way America was founded, by the slow and methodical decimation of the native population that was already living there. The difference is the Palestinians have allies and aren't going away. Israel can't erase the Palestinians without the whole Arab world attacking their ass. Now of course, the Jews have WMD's but If Israel nukes their neighbors, they have the possibility of making their own land uninhabitable, so they are fucked no matter what they do.

Bullshit: you don't know history or are deliberately mistating facts here.

Prior to 1948 there was no SUCH THING AS A PALASTINIAN!

The Palestine Mandate (controlled by Great Britain after WW2) and was the dumping ground for the scum of the Islamic world at the time, and even before during Ottoman rule. The jews had been in residence in that area FAR longer than the "palestinians".

Only when the islamic governments of the day could use the very people they abandoned did the term Palestinian come into effect.

Now if you want to consider the merits of the various plans to resettle expatriated jews after WW1, ok, but get off the high horse of the jews killed off the palestinians, because it's just not factual and historically inaccurate.

You hate Arabs. We get it. How about you just be honest about that and spare us all this bullshit?

[Don]

Israel was founded very much the same way America was founded, by the slow and methodical decimation of the native population that was already living there. The difference is the Palestinians have allies and aren't going away. Israel can't erase the Palestinians without the whole Arab world attacking their ass. Now of course, the Jews have WMD's but If Israel nukes their neighbors, they have the possibility of making their own land uninhabitable, so they are fucked no matter what they do.

Bullshit: you don't know history or are deliberately mistating facts here.

Prior to 1948 there was no SUCH THING AS A PALASTINIAN!

The Palestine Mandate (controlled by Great Britain after WW2) and was the dumping ground for the scum of the Islamic world at the time, and even before during Ottoman rule. The jews had been in residence in that area FAR longer than the "palestinians".

Only when the islamic governments of the day could use the very people they abandoned did the term Palestinian come into effect.

Now if you want to consider the merits of the various plans to resettle expatriated jews after WW1, ok, but get off the high horse of the jews killed off the palestinians, because it's just not factual and historically inaccurate.

The majority living there were arabs with the minority being Jews, so If I called them Palestinians, what is the difference? When the European Jews arrived, Britain curtailed the immigration numbers to keep it balanced as they were going to make a split state. The ultra Zionist were against this and started a campaign of what we call today, terrorist activities against the arab populous. Saying who was there first would be like the U.N. saying the native american indians were here before us so go ahead and give the country back to them or give them half the land even though there are less of them than us.

[Ehwmatt]

Israel was founded very much the same way America was founded, by the slow and methodical decimation of the native population that was already living there. The difference is the Palestinians have allies and aren't going away. Israel can't erase the Palestinians without the whole Arab world attacking their ass. Now of course, the Jews have WMD's but If Israel nukes their neighbors, they have the possibility of making their own land uninhabitable, so they are fucked no matter what they do.

Bullshit: you don't know history or are deliberately mistating facts here.

Prior to 1948 there was no SUCH THING AS A PALASTINIAN!

The Palestine Mandate (controlled by Great Britain after WW2) and was the dumping ground for the scum of the Islamic world at the time, and even before during Ottoman rule. The jews had been in residence in that area FAR longer than the "palestinians".

Only when the islamic governments of the day could use the very people they abandoned did the term Palestinian come into effect.

Now if you want to consider the merits of the various plans to resettle expatriated jews after WW1, ok, but get off the high horse of the jews killed off the palestinians, because it's just not factual and historically inaccurate.

You hate Arabs. We get it. How about you just be honest about that and spare us all this bullshit?

Come off of it. Ross is right. Both sides are at fault for my money. Ideally, we shouldn't support either side, but, hey...

[Don]

Israel was founded very much the same way America was founded, by the slow and methodical decimation of the native population that was already living there. The difference is the Palestinians have allies and aren't going away. Israel can't erase the Palestinians without the whole Arab world attacking their ass. Now of course, the Jews have WMD's but If Israel nukes their neighbors, they have the possibility of making their own land uninhabitable, so they are fucked no matter what they do.

Bullshit: you don't know history or are deliberately mistating facts here.

Prior to 1948 there was no SUCH THING AS A PALASTINIAN!

The Palestine Mandate (controlled by Great Britain after WW2) and was the dumping ground for the scum of the Islamic world at the time, and even before during Ottoman rule. The jews had been in residence in that area FAR longer than the "palestinians".

Only when the islamic governments of the day could use the very people they abandoned did the term Palestinian come into effect.

Now if you want to consider the merits of the various plans to resettle expatriated jews after WW1, ok, but get off the high horse of the jews killed off the palestinians, because it's just not factual and historically inaccurate.

You hate Arabs. We get it. How about you just be honest about that and spare us all this bullshit?

Come off of it. Ross is right. Both sides are at fault for my money. Ideally, we shouldn't support either side, but, hey...

That's why I said nuke the whole flaming lot and be done with it. That shit ain't going to end in our lifetime.

[RossValoryRocks]

Israel was founded very much the same way America was founded, by the slow and methodical decimation of the native population that was already living there. The difference is the Palestinians have allies and aren't going away. Israel can't erase the Palestinians without the whole Arab world attacking their ass. Now of course, the Jews have WMD's but If Israel nukes their neighbors, they have the possibility of making their own land uninhabitable, so they are fucked no matter what they do.

Bullshit: you don't know history or are deliberately mistating facts here.

Prior to 1948 there was no SUCH THING AS A PALASTINIAN!

The Palestine Mandate (controlled by Great Britain after WW2) and was the dumping ground for the scum of the Islamic world at the time, and even before during Ottoman rule. The jews had been in residence in that area FAR longer than the "palestinians".

Only when the islamic governments of the day could use the very people they abandoned did the term Palestinian come into effect.

Now if you want to consider the merits of the various plans to resettle expatriated jews after WW1, ok, but get off the high horse of the jews killed off the palestinians, because it's just not factual and historically inaccurate.

You hate Arabs. We get it. How about you just be honest about that and spare us all this bullshit?

How about you are an anti-semite? Is that good enough? You hate all jews, can I infer that from your comments?

I don't hate arabs at all. I hate islamic terrorists and Hamas ranks right up there with the top of the list in that regard.

Would you stand there and let someone punch you in the face? Probably not I would assume, and if you did you would be an idiot for doing so.

As far as I can see Isreal has exercise a high level of restraint. If I were in charge I would tell the population of the Gaza strip they have one week to turn over all arms, munitions and other weapons and the purpotrators of the rocket attacks, if they didn't comply I would push them into the Med and bulldoze the entire strip and plant crops.

You notice that the problem is ONLY in the Hamas controlled Gaza strip and not in the arab settled areas not controlled by Hamas?

[RossValoryRocks]

That's why I said nuke the whole flaming lot and be done with it. That shit ain't going to end in our lifetime.

It's been going on 2000 years...we aren't going to stop it.

[Saint John]

Would you stand there and let someone punch you in the face?

If I ever meet Matthew I'll provide some feedback, Stu.

[Arianddu]

You hate Arabs. We get it. How about you just be honest about that and spare us all this bullshit?

How about you are an anti-semite? Is that good enough? You hate all jews, can I infer that from your comments?

Just being pedantic, not taking sides here - arabs are semitic, as are jews. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semite

Sorry - pet peeve. Move along!

[Matthew]

How about you are an anti-semite? Is that good enough? You hate all jews, can I infer that from your comments?

There's nothing in my comments which is remotely anti-Semitic...unless you somehow interpret my lack of righteous satisfaction that hundreds people are getting killed in Gaza as Jew hating in some way.

However...had I said that Israelis had been sent to the region because they were the "scumbags" of the Jewish world...which is what you said about the Palestinians...then you'd probably be right in thinking I was coming from a position of bigotry rather than historical accuracy.

I don't hate arabs at all. I hate islamic terrorists and Hamas ranks right up there with the top of the list in that regard.

I hate Islamic terrorists too. And I hate the hawks in the Israeli government and military too. Both keep the cycle of violence going and I don't know why any of this should be applauded.

Would you stand there and let someone punch you in the face? Probably not I would assume, and if you did you would be an idiot for doing so.

No..I'd be emotional and angry about it and punch him back...and then we'd both punch the crap out of each other and bystanders would think we were completely pathetic. I would hope that eventually I might actually use my brain or my morality or something other than pig-headed brute force to solve the dispute. You obviously wouldn't.

As far as I can see Isreal has exercise a high level of restraint. If I were in charge I would tell the population of the Gaza strip they have one week to turn over all arms, munitions and other weapons and the purpotrators of the rocket attacks, if they didn't comply I would push them into the Med and bulldoze the entire strip and plant crops.

Who are "they"? The terrorists or the millions of civilians who are trying to get on with their lives? Are they to be consigned to the sea as well in your Arab-friendly vision for the region?

[Blueskies]

No..I'd be emotional and angry about it and punch him back...and then we'd both punch the crap out of each other and bystanders would think we were completely pathetic. I would hope that eventually I might actually use my brain or my morality or something other than pig-headed brute force to solve the dispute.

Great point quote of the day.

[Saint John]

No..I'd be emotional and angry about it and punch him back...and then we'd both punch the crap out of each other and bystanders would think we were completely pathetic. I would hope that eventually I might actually use my brain or my morality or something other than pig-headed brute force to solve the dispute. You obviously wouldn't.

These people don't understand logic and reason. Israel has tried every form of diplomacy known to man and even made some concessions. It just makes them look weak and vulnerable. Unfortunately, the only thing that resonates with these barbarians is brute force. The prize for using "morality or you brain" would be "Hey, there's the pussy that doesn't hit back when you punch him. Let's go have some fun and stomp his ass."

[Blueskies]

Violence generally leads to more violence which continues and escalates to where so much has occurred in the past and both sides become so entrenched with hurt, anger, hate and vengence that diplomacy and all rational leave and neither side is willing to be open and listen to the other in the dispute. ...That is when it will take an unbiased third party to hear both sides out and to try to lead them to a reconsiliation....our heads of state have been able to achieve a little diplomacy and negotiation in the region in the past but even then we have not been and viewed as an unbiased third party...and now we surely are not so it will take a great deal of time, effort and trust to be obtained before anyone will even start to listen again, unfortunitely. I don't have any idea who it could be or if there is anyone that would be seen as unbiased that both sides would be willing to listen to but thats what it would take..and with both sides willing to let the past go and to give a little on their parts....otherwise the violence will just continue as it always has and the disputes will never be resolved.

[conversationpc]

You hate Arabs. We get it. How about you just be honest about that and spare us all this bullshit?

That's a dumb thing to say. Nothing Stu said merited that.

[Don]

Violence generally leads to more violence which continues and escalates to where so much has occurred in the past and both sides become so entrenched with hurt, anger, hate and vengence that diplomacy and all rational leave and neither side is willing to be open and listen to the other in the dispute. ...That is when it will take an unbiased third party to hear both sides out and to try to lead them to a reconsiliation....our heads of state have been able to achieve a little diplomacy and negotiation in the region in the past but even then we have not been and viewed as an unbiased third party...and now we surely are not so it will take a great deal of time, effort and trust to be obtained before anyone will even start to listen again, unfortunitely. I don't have any idea who it could be or if there is anyone that would be seen as unbiased that both sides would be willing to listen to but thats what it would take..and with both sides willing to let the past go and to give a little on their parts....otherwise the violence will just continue as it always has and the disputes will never be resolved.

As long as there are still veterans around from the past Arab/Israeli Wars, nothing will be settled and probably not during the next generation. The only way it might end is if a natural disaster devastates the area, and even then, one group or the other will say it was God's way of saying their fight is is a just one.

[conversationpc]

These people don't understand logic and reason. Israel has tried every form of diplomacy known to man and even made some concessions. It just makes them look weak and vulnerable. Unfortunately, the only thing that resonates with these barbarians is brute force. The prize for using "morality or you brain" would be "Hey, there's the pussy that doesn't hit back when you punch him. Let's go have some fun and stomp his ass."

This is something that people in the west and Europe don't understand. Most Arab countries, especially those with hard-line Islamic governments, take concessions as a sign of weakness on the part of other countries. In their eyes, when THEY make concessions, it is only temporarily in order to gain an advantage over their opponent. That, in my opinion, is how Palestinians see Israel. They see them as weak for giving up land for peace and have made a few, but very minor, concessions in order to gain an advantage over Israel.

[Blueskies]

Violence generally leads to more violence which continues and escalates to where so much has occurred in the past and both sides become so entrenched with hurt, anger, hate and vengence that diplomacy and all rational leave and neither side is willing to be open and listen to the other in the dispute. ...That is when it will take an unbiased third party to hear both sides out and to try to lead them to a reconsiliation....our heads of state have been able to achieve a little diplomacy and negotiation in the region in the past but even then we have not been and viewed as an unbiased third party...and now we surely are not so it will take a great deal of time, effort and trust to be obtained before anyone will even start to listen again, unfortunitely. I don't have any idea who it could be or if there is anyone that would be seen as unbiased that both sides would be willing to listen to but thats what it would take..and with both sides willing to let the past go and to give a little on their parts....otherwise the violence will just continue as it always has and the disputes will never be resolved.

As long as there are still veterans around from the past Arab/Israeli Wars, nothing will be settled and probably not during the next generation. The only way it might end is if a natural disaster devastates the area, and even then, one group or the other will say it was God's way of saying their fight is is a just one.

Thats an all hope is lost answer. Even if a natural disater did occur or the region was nuked as you earlier suggested neither thing would be the answer because the people with the history and who have been or had someone they know been affected are spread throughout the world now so both of your suggestions could not "get" everyone you want to do away with and would not really resolve anything....if the region was nuke
d and was inhabitable, then sure..no one would be there to fight over the land...but the hate would increase and they would just move the fight to another region...then that one would have to be nuked and so on and so on untill there is no place left. So diplomacy...negotiation and agreement is the only answer that will bring about any change and resolution. Eventually mankind has to learn to coexist, to use their minds instead of brute force to resolve conflicts and be willing to forgive and forget past hurts and to give a little more and cooperate with each other.