I think I was unprepared going into that war..George Bush

[Rockindeano]

They're all no good, including Obama, who was smoking crack a few years ago and bummed cigarettes off of people this year while campaigning.

Obama is a good man, and this last campaign always paid a great deal of respect to Jon McCain and his undaunted service.

LOL, crack? If smoking crack makes him this smart and calculated, I say give him more!

IS THAT why he is selling his senate seat to the highest bidder... Oh until the GOV of IL was caught... remember Obama started his polotics in CHICAGO... where ethics are not generally worried about... only saying.....

Save it. What you just said was 100% false and you fucking know it. Obama has been cleared of any wrongdoing and was even proved to not have ever talked to Blago about this shit. You Cons are already starting your smear campaign I see.

I DO remember Obama started his politics in Chicago, and it shows a helluva lot of good character that he went straight and proper and did not align himself with Daley, Blago, and all those assholes. Face it, there is no dirt on the guy and he came from the landfill of American politics, or one of them(New Orleans and Jersey being the others).

[sadie65]

Again I'll state that unfortunately this was politics as usual. Need I remind you that smearing takes place in many areas...I recall many smears on this forum alone.

Great point Sister Christian, but this is a message board you know, not a presidential campaign.

No different. Seriously, just because one is lesser in the forefront of peoples knowledge does not excuse it at all. Quit hiding behind that. Smearing, poor judgment, lying, rudeness...shouldn't be tolerated anywhere. Until everyone works towards that...certainly on a presidential campaign level, you get what you put in.

Judging by the standards allowed in all walks...just not gonna happen.

Oh, bullshit. You don't think that behind closed doors the McCain people weren't motherfucking and chopping apart the Obama people and vice versa?!?! Get real, we had our spats out here in the open and that's a little something that the Constitution allows us to do. It's a messageboard and, yes, the language was colorful at times, but you'd hear the same thing behind the closed doors of those actually in the race. This place was a healthy outlet and after Obama won everyone sort of came together...except Redwingfan. I'm worried about him.

No shit Sherlock. That's my point. People everywhere allow themselves to do this crap, whether it's a message board or an election campaign. Hiding behind the statement that they are different things is just that...bullshit. We as a society allow it. Hell here, more often than not it's even applauded. And I'd describe this place as many things...healthy isn't one of them. Thanks for making my point for me.

[Saint John]

Thanks for making my point for me.

This statement is always a sure sign that one has an underwhelming argument.

[sadie65]

Thanks for making my point for me.

This statement is always a sure sign that one has an underwhelming argument.

Right. Whatever. The fact of the matter is that over half the blinking country voted for Bush in 2004. I hardly think that amount is all idiots and retards. Which is what I said in the first place. And come on...we all know that in this forum there's been a hell of a lot of smearing that's been done to each other and to other people. If we can't even control it here...how in the hell do we expect it to not be done in a presidential election?

[sadie65]

They're all no good, including Obama, who was smoking crack a few years ago and bummed cigarettes off of people this year while campaigning.

Obama is a good man, and this last campaign always paid a great deal of respect to Jon McCain and his undaunted service.

LOL, crack? If smoking crack makes him this smart and calculated, I say give him more!

IS THAT why he is selling his senate seat to the highest bidder... Oh until the GOV of IL was caught... remember Obama started his polotics in CHICAGO... where ethics are not generally worried about... only saying.....

Save it. What you just said was 100% false and you fucking know it. Obama has been cleared of any wrongdoing and was even proved to not have ever talked to Blago about this shit. You Cons are already starting your smear campaign I see.

I DO remember Obama started his politics in Chicago, and it shows a helluva lot of good character that he went straight and proper and did not align himself with Daley, Blago, and all those assholes. Face it, there is no dirt on the guy and he came from the landfill of American politics, or one of them(New Orleans and Jersey being the others).

What's comical is that of all places North Dakota is listed as most corrupt for government.

Chi town is definitely a machine kind of town. Always has been. Oh how I miss that town

[Jana]

They're all no good, including Obama, who was smoking crack a few years ago and bummed cigarettes off of people this year while campaigning.

Obama is a good man, and this last campaign always paid a great deal of respect to Jon McCain and his undaunted service.

LOL, crack? If smoking crack makes him this smart and calculated, I say give him more!

IS THAT why he is selling his senate seat to the highest bidder... Oh until the GOV of IL was caught... remember Obama started his polotics in CHICAGO... where ethics are not generally worried about... only saying.....

Save it. What you just said was 100% false and you fucking know it. Obama has been cleared of any wrongdoing and was even proved to not have ever talked to Blago about this shit. You Cons are already starting your smear campaign I see.

I DO remember Obama started his politics in Chicago, and it shows a helluva lot of good character that he went straight and proper and did not align himself with Daley, Blago, and all those assholes. Face it, there is no dirt on the guy and he came from the landfill of American politics, or one of them(New Orleans and Jersey being the others).

Come on, Lights. You're just being a sore loser making that statement re Obama selling his seat. He had no involvement and you can't stand that .

[RossValoryRocks]

You know, I have refrained from politics because it gets so nasty in here, but here is my take on things...

1. Bush with the best of intentions, fucked up bad...and we all know what road is paved with the best of intentions.
2. EVERYONE should at least give Obama a chance to prove himself, either way. The man isn't in office yet, we should give him the benefit of doubt.
3. Being President isn't a job I would wish on my worst enemy. The job itself has changed so significantly in the last 30 years, let alone the last 221 since the Constitution was written, that I can't imagine anyone actually WANTING the job, other than the typical self-absorbed politicians who want to aggrandize themselves.
4. After 8 years of conservatives getting bashed (and rightly so in many cases) it's time for the libs to put up or shut up now. Let's see how well they do and abuse or compliment accordingly.

[Jana]

You know, I have refrained from politics because it gets so nasty in here, but here is my take on things...

1. Bush with the best of intentions, fucked up bad...and we all know what road is paved with the best of intentions.
2. EVERYONE should at least give Obama a chance to prove himself, either way. The man isn't in office yet, we should give him the benefit of doubt.
3. Being President isn't a job I would wish on my worst enemy. The job itself has changed so significantly in the last 30 years, let alone the last 221 since the Constitution was written, that I can't imagine anyone actually WANTING the job, other than the typical self-absorbed politicians who want to agrandize themselves.
4. After 8 years of conservatives getting bashed (and rightly so in many cases) it's time for the libs to put up or shut up now. Let's see how well they do and abuse or compliment accordingly.

I agree, RVR. Well said. I didn't vote for Bush even for his first term, and was upset Gore lost, but I stood behind our President for three years. It wasn't until that fourth year I soured. So I don't understand this need for some people to almost get delight in hoping for bad news about Obama or making false statements. Our country is in big trouble. I would think now is the time to stand behind our President and give him the benefit of the doubt, even if you didn't vote for him, and should wish he succeeds for the betterment of our nation right now at such a difficult time.

[sadie65]

You know, I have refrained from politics because it gets so nasty in here, but here is my take on things...

1. Bush with the best of intentions, fucked up bad...and we all know what road is paved with the best of intentions.
2. EVERYONE should at least give Obama a chance to prove himself, either way. The man isn't in office yet, we should give him the benefit of doubt.
3. Being President isn't a job I would wish on my worst enemy. The job itself has changed so significantly in the last 30 years, let alone the last 221 since the Constitution was written, that I can't imagine anyone actually WANTING the job, other than the typical self-absorbed politicians who want to agrandize themselves.
4. After 8 years of conservatives getting bashed (and rightly so in many cases) it's time for the libs to put up or shut up now. Let's see how well they do and abuse or compliment accordingly.

I agree, RVR. Well said. I didn't vote for Bush even for his first term, and was upset Gore lost, but I stood behind our President for three years. It wasn't until that fourth year I soured. So I don't understand this need for some people to almost get delight in hoping for bad news about Obama or making false statements. Our country is in big trouble. I would think now is the time to stand behind our President and give him the benefit of the doubt, even if you didn't vote for him, and should wish he succeeds for the betterment of our nation right now at such a difficult time.

I have absolutely no problem standing behind the president and hoping for the best. But surely you must admit that there will always be people whose own bias will preclude them ever giving someone the benefit of the doubt...on either side of the fence. We have made ourselves a country of instant gratification. I fear that unless an immediate turn around happens, you'll find people quick to lay blame, albeit unfairly. It's our human nature.

I sincerely hope that the country can get back on its feet. Trust me, I am just as severely impacted as the next person by what is going on...in every area of my life. But our history makes it difficult for me to believe we won't be lobbing volleys at each other or our government in the coming months.

[Ehwmatt]

Like Ross said, after 8 years of bashing, Obama's presidency better lend credence to the liberals' constant "our way is so much better" refrain. What liberals have engaged in for the last 8 years amounts to no more than political armchair quarterbacking. If Obama's presidency doesn't go phenomenally great... well, it won't look too good for the Dems after running their mouths for so long.

I think Obama is a good man who has some policy ideas I find personally abhorrent. I also think he is a very intelligent guy, which can be a double-edged sword at times (i.e., sometimes the most intellectual answer to a problem is not necessarily the right/practical one). I hope it's not in this case. The country needs something good, we all know that.

One thing that has to go is the exaggerated incredulity about Bush winning re-election. Dems are loathe to admit that Kerry was a TERRIBLE FUCKING CANDIDATE. Why is that so hard? The guy had all the charisma and panache of an 80 year old's flaccid, wrinkled cock. I think McCain is a good man and would have made a good president, with some of the ideas he had that I didn't like notwithstanding, but he was a TERRIBLE FUCKING CANDIDATE. Pretty easy to admit during the election, and even easier now, nearly 2 months on. So please, Dems, get over 2004 and start looking forward. Time to peel that Kerry/Edwards sticker off your car. Why would you want people to know you supported Frankenstein and a philandering ambulance chaser who lost? . Learn from history and use the lessons, but don't cry about it over and over.

[lights1961]

You know, I have refrained from politics because it gets so nasty in here, but here is my take on things...

1. Bush with the best of intentions, fucked up bad...and we all know what road is paved with the best of intentions.
2. EVERYONE should at least give Obama a chance to prove himself, either way. The man isn't in office yet, we should give him the benefit of doubt.
3. Being President isn't a job I would wish on my worst enemy. The job itself has changed so significantly in the last 30 years, let alone the last 221 since the Constitution was written, that I can't imagine anyone actually WANTING the job, other than the typical self-absorbed politicians who want to agrandize themselves.
4. After 8 years of conservatives getting bashed (and rightly so in many cases) it's time for the libs to put up or shut up now. Let's see how well they do and abuse or compliment accordingly.

I agree, RVR. Well said. I didn't vote for Bush even for his first term, and was upset Gore lost, but I stood behind our President for three years. It wasn't until that fourth year I soured. So I don't understand this need for some people to almost get delight in hoping for bad news about Obama or making false statements. Our country is in big trouble. I would think now is the time to stand behind our President and give him the benefit of the doubt, even if you didn't vote for him, and should wish he succeeds for the betterment of our nation right now at such a difficult time.

I have absolutely no problem standing behind the president and hoping for the best. But surely you must admit that there will always be people whose own bias will preclude them ever giving someone the benefit of the doubt...on either side of the fence. We have made ourselves a country of instant gratification. I fear that unless an immediate turn around happens, you'll find people quick to lay blame, albeit unfairly. It's our human nature.

I sincerely hope that the country can get back on its feet. Trust me, I am just as severely impacted as the next person by what is going on...in every area of my life. But our history makes it difficult for me to believe we won't be lobbing volleys at each other or our government in the coming months.

I just hope we dont become part of the EU in the next 8 years... where we dont want to fight for our way of life... and we keep on getting freedoms taken away..... Bush was prepared to go to war... the powers during the first two years were not prepared for the insurgents that kept coming back in...the govt that is there now, will be better than it was before we went in... and we did it for the right reasons... BUT 20/20 HINDSIGHT is easier than actually making the final choice about what to do... History will proove that USA did the right thing. not 5 years history, but 30 years or 50 years history and that is what its about... not instant poll numbers...

Rick

[sadie65]

History is always the arbiter of whether something successful. I agree. I'm only saying that at this point in our history we've taught ourselves that anything other than immediate success is unacceptable. We want the best toys, we want everything. Don't like something someone says or does...it's okay...sue. I don't envy anyone stepping into office. Because until we collectively decide to stop wanting instantaneous results on everything, whomever it is is doomed to incur our wrath.

[donnaplease]

I agree, RVR. Well said. I didn't vote for Bush even for his first term, and was upset Gore lost, but I stood behind our President for three years. It wasn't until that fourth year I soured. So I don't understand this need for some people to almost get delight in hoping for bad news about Obama or making false statements. Our country is in big trouble. I would think now is the time to stand behind our President and give him the benefit of the doubt, even if you didn't vote for him, and should wish he succeeds for the betterment of our nation right now at such a difficult time.

I agree with everything you said, Jana, except... We have seen people delight in hoping for bad news about W (and our country under W) for years now. And false statements...? Sheesh! How about all the shit that has been said about him? Calling him a murderer, etc. The past 7 1/2 years have been the time to stand behind our President and give him the benefit of the doubt too, and we see how that's gone, huh?

I'm not gonna bash Obama. I didn't vote for him, but he won the election. However, as someone here already said, it's time for him (and the dems) to put their money where their mouth is, roll up their sleeves & get to it!

[conversationpc]

You know, I have refrained from politics because it gets so nasty in here, but here is my take on things...

1. Bush with the best of intentions, fucked up bad...and we all know what road is paved with the best of intentions.
2. EVERYONE should at least give Obama a chance to prove himself, either way. The man isn't in office yet, we should give him the benefit of doubt.
3. Being President isn't a job I would wish on my worst enemy. The job itself has changed so significantly in the last 30 years, let alone the last 221 since the Constitution was written, that I can't imagine anyone actually WANTING the job, other than the typical self-absorbed politicians who want to aggrandize themselves.
4. After 8 years of conservatives getting bashed (and rightly so in many cases) it's time for the libs to put up or shut up now. Let's see how well they do and abuse or compliment accordingly.

I agree with everything you said. I'll add this, and I'm obviously no huge Bush fan...It's really easy to sit back and call bush a "fucking moron" but I guarantee you won't see me referring to Obama like this even if he turns out to be as bad a President as Bush has been. Disagreeing with the President and being over the top with the rhetoric are two different things.

[Rockindeano]

.... Bush was prepared to go to war... the powers during the first two years were not prepared for the insurgents that kept coming back in...the govt that is there now, will be better than it was before we went in... and we did it for the right reasons... BUT 20/20 HINDSIGHT is easier than actually making the final choice about what to do... History will proove that USA did the right thing. not 5 years history, but 30 years or 50 years history and that is what its about... not instant poll numbers...

Rick

So you think Bush was prepared to war, yet he said, "I wasn't prepared to go to war." Dude, Not having the facts, lying straight to our faces, no exit strategy, no real allies..Hey if that's good for you, go on and enlist in this bullshit war. I love it how all the Cons say W is the man and the GOP has got it right, yet they would never dare serve. Laughable.

I don't care, that clusterfuck of a party has been flushed. Now get out of the fucking way already.

[donnaplease]

My oldest son actually considered enlisting in the Navy or Air Force, but his asthma was an issue early on, so he didn't get too serious about it. I would've supported his decision to enlist though. I would've been scared shitless, but I would've been proud of him for serving. Travis was in the Navy during the first Gulf War.

[Jana]

I agree, RVR. Well said. I didn't vote for Bush even for his first term, and was upset Gore lost, but I stood behind our President for three years. It wasn't until that fourth year I soured. So I don't understand this need for some people to almost get delight in hoping for bad news about Obama or making false statements. Our country is in big trouble. I would think now is the time to stand behind our President and give him the benefit of the doubt, even if you didn't vote for him, and should wish he succeeds for the betterment of our nation right now at such a difficult time.

I agree with everything you said, Jana, except... We have seen people delight in hoping for bad news about W (and our country under W) for years now. And false statements...? Sheesh! How about all the shit that has been said about him? Calling him a murderer, etc. The past 7 1/2 years have been the time to stand behind our President and give him the benefit of the doubt too, and we see how that's gone, huh?

I'm not gonna bash Obama. I didn't vote for him, but he won the election. However, as someone here already said, it's time for him (and the dems) to put their money where their mouth is, roll up their sleeves & get to it!

I agree with most of what you said, Donna, except I won't blindly stand behind and support any president (Dem or Rep) for their whole term, whether four years or in George W.'s case, eight years, if I disagree with him or his policies and the direction he's taking the country. And I don't expect every citizen to do that for Obama. In Bush's case a good chunk of his own party aren't happy with him. I don't have a whole lot of respect for George W now, but iin the beginning I supported him for three years, even though I opposed the war. And I don't delight in how wrong things went with Bush, because ultimately we're paying for it. I voted for Jeb Bush here in Florida and I voted for George H.W., and respect both men. But George W. -- never mind

What I meant was give Obama the benefit of the doubt starting out and see what he does and wish him well. Down the road into Obama's presidency I have no problem with people disagreeing with policies that have been initated that clearly aren't working or facts that come out about his administration that should be criticized, which will happen. I just meant he hasn't even taken office yet and the remarks have started, which I agree with you, it happens on both sides.

[donnaplease]

I agree with most of what you said, Donna, except I won't blindly stand behind and support any president (Dem or Rep) for their whole term, whether four years or in George W.'s case, eight years, if I disagree with him or his policies and the direction he's taking the country. And I don't expect every citizen to do that for Obama. In Bush's case a good chunk of his own party aren't happy with him. I don't have a whole lot of respect for George W now, but iin the beginning I supported him for three years, even though I opposed the war. And I don't delight in how wrong things went with Bush, because ultimately we're paying for it. I voted for Jeb Bush here in Florida and I voted for George H.W., and respect both men. But George W. -- never mind

What I meant was give Obama the benefit of the doubt starting out and see what he does and wish him well. Down the road into Obama's presidency I have no problem with people disagreeing with policies that have been initated that clearly aren't working or facts that come out about his administration that should be criticized, which will happen. I just meant he hasn't even taken office yet and the remarks have started, which I agree with you, it happens on both sides.

I understand where you're coming from. I had trouble trusting BO during the campaign, though, so I can't just flip and become a cheerleader. I do hope he makes the most of this opportunity and is actually able to turn some things around, though. I will stand & support our country though, and try to be the person I asked many here to be for the past few years.

I have been a Bush supporter, even when I haven't necessarily agreed with him. (Got a lot of shit for it here, too! ) I personally believe he has been sincere in what he's attempted to do for the country, whether it has turned out right or wrong. I think he's gotten a lot of shit thrown at him, and he has pretty much endured it with class. The look on his face when those shoes were zinging past his head was priceless to me.

I'm worried about our country and our world. I'm not sure if any one person can make enough of a difference to turn things around. Maybe BO will be the one. I wish him luck.

[Andrew]

I agree with most of what you said, Donna, except I won't blindly stand behind and support any president (Dem or Rep) for their whole term, whether four years or in George W.'s case, eight years, if I disagree with him or his policies and the direction he's taking the country. And I don't expect every citizen to do that for Obama. In Bush's case a good chunk of his own party aren't happy with him. I don't have a whole lot of respect for George W now, but iin the beginning I supported him for three years, even though I opposed the war. And I don't delight in how wrong things went with Bush, because ultimately we're paying for it. I voted for Jeb Bush here in Florida and I voted for George H.W., and respect both men. But George W. -- never mind

What I meant was give Obama the benefit of the doubt starting out and see what he does and wish him well. Down the road into Obama's presidency I have no problem with people disagreeing with policies that have been initated that clearly aren't working or facts that come out about his administration that should be criticized, which will happen. I just meant he hasn't even taken office yet and the remarks have started, which I agree with you, it happens on both sides.

I understand where you're coming from. I had trouble trusting BO during the campaign, though, so I can't just flip and become a cheerleader. I do hope he makes the most of this opportunity and is actually able to turn some things around, though. I will stand & support our country though, and try to be the person I asked many here to be for the past few years.

I have been a Bush supporter, even when I haven't necessarily agreed with him. (Got a lot of shit for it here, too! ) I personally believe he has been sincere in what he's attempted to do for the country, whether it has turned out right or wrong. I think he's gotten a lot of shit thrown at him, and he has pretty much endured it with class. The look on his face when those shoes were zinging past his head was priceless to me.

I'm worried about our country and our world. I'm not sure if any one person can make enough of a difference to turn things around. Maybe BO will be the one. I wish him luck.

Good post.

[Jana]

I agree with most of what you said, Donna, except I won't blindly stand behind and support any president (Dem or Rep) for their whole term, whether four years or in George W.'s case, eight years, if I disagree with him or his policies and the direction he's taking the country. And I don't expect every citizen to do that for Obama. In Bush's case a good chunk of his own party aren't happy with him. I don't have a whole lot of respect for George W now, but iin the beginning I supported him for three years, even though I opposed the war. And I don't delight in how wrong things went with Bush, because ultimately we're paying for it. I voted for Jeb Bush here in Florida and I voted for George H.W., and respect both men. But George W. -- never mind

What I meant was give Obama the benefit of the doubt starting out and see what he does and wish him well. Down the road into Obama's presidency I have no problem with people disagreeing with policies that have been initated that clearly aren't working or facts that come out about his administration that should be criticized, which will happen. I just meant he hasn't even taken office yet and the remarks have started, which I agree with you, it happens on both sides.

I understand where you're coming from. I had trouble trusting BO during the campaign, though, so I can't just flip and become a cheerleader. I do hope he makes the most of this opportunity and is actually able to turn some things around, though. I will stand & support our country though, and try to be the person I asked many here to be for the past few years.

I have been a Bush supporter, even when I haven't necessarily agreed with him. (Got a lot of shit for it here, too! ) I personally believe he has been sincere in what he's attempted to do for the country, whether it has turned out right or wrong. I think he's gotten a lot of shit thrown at him, and he has pretty much endured it with class. The look on his face when those shoes were zinging past his head was priceless to me.

I'm worried about our country and our world. I'm not sure if any one person can make enough of a difference to turn things around. Maybe BO will be the one. I wish him luck.

I was a Hillary supporter all the way, so I had issues with Obama. It was hard for me to watch the Democratic convention when Bill and Hillary gave their speeches. Very, very sad for me. But I have to admit I have come to really respect and admire Obama and truly believe the right person was elected, which KILLS me to say . Though, she would have been fantastic . I had to throw that in.

[texafana]

W. is a fucking MORON and proves it time and again every time he opens his pie hole. I can honestly say that he's the first president of my lifetime (since I've been aware of who the president was) who I have ZERO respect for. He's a complete embarrassment to our country and a huge reason that we are hated so much around the world. Even though we've had presidents whose politics I didn't agree with, I at least respected them. W. makes it impossible to garner any respect. Thankfully, we only have about another 3 weeks of this dope and then Texas gets to take him back where he belongs!

We'll be saying the same thing about Obama in 4 years. The pres always takes the fall. The past 8 years were horrible times to be a US pres, and it's probably going to get worse for Obama. Get your camera's ready, Obama is going to age dramatically the next 4 years.

[The_Noble_Cause]

... and we did it for the right reasons...

Which were buried beneath a cat's cradle of WMD spin, half-truths, and outright bullshit.
If the mission is so morally righteous, why not lay it bare to the American people?

... .History will proove that USA did the right thing. not 5 years history, but 30 years or 50 years history and that is what its about... not instant poll numbers...

The hindsight of history has done little to wring past stains (installing the Shah, the gulf of tonkin, Iran-Contra etc.) from the national tapestry.
But, hey, keep reaching for that rainbow.

[tj]

Like Ross said, after 8 years of bashing, Obama's presidency better lend credence to the liberals' constant "our way is so much better" refrain. What liberals have engaged in for the last 8 years amounts to no more than political armchair quarterbacking. If Obama's presidency doesn't go phenomenally great... well, it won't look too good for the Dems after running their mouths for so long.

I think Obama is a good man who has some policy ideas I find personally abhorrent. I also think he is a very intelligent guy, which can be a double-edged sword at times (i.e., sometimes the most intellectual answer to a problem is not necessarily the right/practical one). I hope it's not in this case. The country needs something good, we all know that.

One thing that has to go is the exaggerated incredulity about Bush winning re-election. Dems are loathe to admit that Kerry was a TERRIBLE FUCKING CANDIDATE. Why is that so hard? The guy had all the charisma and panache of an 80 year old's flaccid, wrinkled cock. I think McCain is a good man and would have made a good president, with some of the ideas he had that I didn't like notwithstanding, but he was a TERRIBLE FUCKING CANDIDATE. Pretty easy to admit during the election, and even easier now, nearly 2 months on. So please, Dems, get over 2004 and start looking forward. Time to peel that Kerry/Edwards sticker off your car. Why would you want people to know you supported Frankenstein and a philandering ambulance chaser who lost? . Learn from history and use the lessons, but don't cry about it over and over.

Clinton, Dole, Bush, Gore, Kerry, McCain, Obama and the list goes on. If you chose a president like you hire anyone else, none of those people would have made it past the HR office, but someone has to win. So it comes down to the guy with the most money and most effective advertising.

This year, Obama had more money than anyone (as well as a fawning media) and was able to continue to get his message out. People saw it, the economy tanked at the right time for him, and he wins. Bush used the money and advertising to his advantage in 2000 and 2004. Convincing people that you are something you aren't is a lot easier when the message gets repeated over and over.

I am still trying to think of when we last had a good candidate. Perhaps Reagan, though 8 years was too long for him. In fact 8 years is probably too long for anyone anymore.

[sadie65]

I'd hazard a guess that down the road Bush will not be viewed with near the scorn he is now...rightly or wrongly.

President Elect Obama will certainly have his work cut out for him.