OT - Economic thread

[Don]

With the news today of Circuit city closing and Citi Group splitting in two, I thought I would start a thread dedicated to economic issues as this will be on the front burner for the forseable future. This is basically for people who want to follow along with the current situation and obviously not for everybody.

Circuit City
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7834250.stm

Citi Group
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7833090.stm

Bank of America
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7832484.stm

[stevew2]

Fuck Bank Of America i hope they crash and burn. Them fuckers let me run up over 14,000 on my credit card, than last month restricted my charging prvilages. If i charge anything else on it or even use it for a deposit my funkin interest rate goes up to 25.99% .Im tempted go on fuckin ski trip ,max it out i say Fuck You, that would stimulate the economy dick bobblers

[Don]

Looking at Citi Group, is there going to be a similar issue with the Automakers? Did we just piss away billions of dollars in bailout funding?

[sadie65]

Looking at Citi Group, is there going to be a similar issue with the Automakers? Did we just piss away billions of dollars in bailout funding?

Working in the industry...until people in general decide to actually take a risk and spend money...the auto industry isn't going to improve. I seldom if ever say this...I know whereof I speak here.

Peace and good luck to all

[bluejeangirl76]

I thought I would start a thread dedicated to economic issues

Presently, we are Effed in the A. Hopefully by the time this topic reaches 'political thread" stauts of 400+ pages, the news will be better.

[Don]

Looking at Citi Group, is there going to be a similar issue with the Automakers? Did we just piss away billions of dollars in bailout funding?

Working in the industry...until people in general decide to actually take a risk and spend money...the auto industry isn't going to improve. I seldom if ever say this...I know whereof I speak here.

Peace and good luck to all

My friends just bought a new car for their daughter. They got the new plates in 10 days, a process that usually takes a month at minimum. No one is buying anything. Despite the malls being busy at Christmas, there was 2.7% downturn in spending. People are only using cash/Debit cards and saying screw credit cards. If something costs more than what's in your bank account, it ain't being bought. In the end people are going to have to bite the bullet and risk using credit, it's just the way it is, fiscal responsibility has to include loans and lines of credit. We are no better then a third world country if everything comes down to cash and barter.

[Ehwmatt]

Looking at Citi Group, is there going to be a similar issue with the Automakers? Did we just piss away billions of dollars in bailout funding?

Working in the industry...until people in general decide to actually take a risk and spend money...the auto industry isn't going to improve. I seldom if ever say this...I know whereof I speak here.

Peace and good luck to all

My friends just bought a new car for their daughter. They got the new plates in 10 days, a process that usually takes a month at minimum. No one is buying anything. Despite the malls being busy at Christmas, there was 2.7% downturn in spending. People are only using cash/Debit cards and saying screw credit cards. If something costs more than what's in your bank account, it ain't being bought. In the end people are going to have to bite the bullet and risk using credit, it's just the way it is, fiscal responsibility has to include loans and lines of credit. We are no better then a third world country if everything comes down to cash and barter.

Well, hopefully what'll happen is we'll get to a middle ground area where people aren't running up credit cards to kingdom come and using cash/debit a little more frequently.

Honestly, part of the problem is nobody in the education system forces you to learn a damn thing about finances when you're young. Every single college across the country oughta have a required Personal Finance course for freshmen where they teach you about loans, credit, 401(k)s, responsible saving/responsible spending, building your nest egg etc. That'd be a lot better than making people take BS British Lit courses and all that other theoretical bullshit. Maybe we wouldn't have quite so many people running around living way over their heads if we increased awareness.

[Don]

Looking at Citi Group, is there going to be a similar issue with the Automakers? Did we just piss away billions of dollars in bailout funding?

Working in the industry...until people in general decide to actually take a risk and spend money...the auto industry isn't going to improve. I seldom if ever say this...I know whereof I speak here.

Peace and good luck to all

My friends just bought a new car for their daughter. They got the new plates in 10 days, a process that usually takes a month at minimum. No one is buying anything. Despite the malls being busy at Christmas, there was 2.7% downturn in spending. People are only using cash/Debit cards and saying screw credit cards. If something costs more than what's in your bank account, it ain't being bought. In the end people are going to have to bite the bullet and risk using credit, it's just the way it is, fiscal responsibility has to include loans and lines of credit. We are no better then a third world country if everything comes down to cash and barter.

Well, hopefully what'll happen is we'll get to a middle ground area where people aren't running up credit cards to kingdom come and using cash/debit a little more frequently.

Honestly, part of the problem is nobody in the education system forces you to learn a damn thing about finances when you're young. Every single college across the country oughta have a required Personal Finance course for freshmen where they teach you about loans, credit, 401(k)s, responsible saving/responsible spending, building your nest egg etc. That'd be a lot better than making people take BS British Lit courses and all that other theoretical bullshit. Maybe we wouldn't have quite so many people running around living way over their heads if we increased awareness.

When I went into the service in 84, You had mandatory financial counseling as part of your inprocessing. You learned how to create a budget, write a check, etc. Banks actually don't mind giving loans to military personal who have a few years left on their enlistment because if they default on a loan, the lender can just call the First Sergeant and have their wages garnished. No going to court or issuing a summons, just one phone call and the problem is handled.

[WIX]

Fuck Bank Of America i hope they crash and burn. Them fuckers let me run up over 14,000 on my credit card, than last month restricted my charging prvilages. If i charge anything else on it or even use it for a deposit my funkin interest rate goes up to 25.99% .Im tempted go on fuckin ski trip ,max it out i say Fuck You, that would stimulate the economy dick bobblers

Good Lord, credit cARDS were not designed to charge beer on daily. Christ you drink a lot of flippin Beer Dude!


If it is any consolation American express sent me a letter and closed all of their business open line of credit accounts which I just happened to have one. That will shut down a lot of small businesses that depended on that open line for goods and payroll etc..................

[WIX]

P.S Bet some cash it will really hurt the Rock Tours this coming summer!

[Ehwmatt]

When I went into the service in 84, You had mandatory financial counseling as part of your inprocessing. You learned how to create a budget, write a check, etc. Banks actually don't mind giving loans to military personal who have a few years left on their enlistment because if they default on a loan, the lender can just call the First Sergeant and have their wages garnished. No going to court or issuing a summons, just one phone call and the problem is handled.

That's the way it should be every where. All these schools are requiring kids to take all these BS, completely impractical courses, which are all fine and good. I know you develop some useful skills and some people are even interested in shit like British Literature and Philosophy, but just sack ONE stupid pre-req for something like you described. I can't tell you how many of the people in my age group graduate without knowing a damn thing about finances, investing, and saving. It's appalling.

[Angel]

Has anyone else noticed an increase in suicide rates in the last few months? We were just talking about his at work on Wednesday night-there have been at least 4 people in the last two months that my co-workers and I know that have committed suicide. Then, after having this conversation with my co-workers, one of them called in last night to ask us to find someone to cover for her for a few days because her cousin killed himself. All 5 of these people that we knew had some major financial struggles.

[Rockindeano]

P.S Bet some cash it will really hurt the Rock Tours this coming summer!

Not the big boys apparently.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/01/14/ ... ultimate14

MVP$

Madonna leads our annual list of pop’s highest-grossing acts.

By R and Y Lewis >>>
January 14, 2009 in print edition E-1

It’s official: Madonna tops Calendar’s Ultimate Top 10, our annual survey combining sales of concert tickets, albums and digital downloads to measure which acts were most popular with the broadest swath of music lovers. ¶ Madonna was the No. 1 concert attraction in North America during the year, according to Pollstar, the concert-tracking magazine, and she enjoyed album sales to the tune of $12.5 million in addition to downloads of $2.3 million. ¶ For the year, there’s also a total split between Nielsen SoundScan’s ranking of the 10 biggest-selling performers of 2008 and Pollstar’s Top 10 highest-grossing North American concert tours. ¶ In recent years the Pollstar and SoundScan rosters have veered away from one another. Typically, classic-rock acts that appeal to well-heeled baby boomers rake in the most money at box offices, while hot but still developing pop, R&B and hip-hop artists sell more albums.

The highest any Top 10 SoundScan act finished in Pollstar’s 2008 ranking was No. 13, where the Jonas Brothers (No. 7 among album sellers) landed after playing to 1.3 million fans last year.

Concert revenue hit $4.2 billion in 2008, according to Pollstar, a 7% rise over the previous year, even though the number of tickets sold was down. An 8.4% increase in average ticket prices was behind the rise, figures that are “astounding considering the economic environment in which they were generated,” Pollstar Editor Gary Bongiovanni said.

The road is still where artists tend to make the most money. Only three of the Nielsen SoundScan biggest-selling artists of 2008 – AC/DC, Coldplay and the Jonas Brothers – make the Ultimate Top 10, even folding in their revenue from digital track sales, which we began including in the Ultimate Top 10 ranking last year.

The best example? Taylor Swift sold more albums than any other act last year: 4 million, giving her $52 million in revenue from album sales using $13 as the average price of a CD. But she placed No. 12 in the Ultimate Top 10 calculations because she played only a handful of concerts as a headliner. She spent most of the year as a supporting act on Rascal Flatts’ tour.

That leaves the upper reaches of the Ultimate Top 10 to the veterans, and no one outperformed Madonna, whose combined income of $120 million is a drop from the previous year’s winner, the Police, which logged $140.7 million.

In fact, Madonna’s total is the lowest for a No. 1 since the Ultimate Top 10 began in 1997, when the Rolling Stones posted $100 million on concert ticket and album sales. The record belongs to ‘N Sync, which earned $212.9 million in 2000 at the height of teen pop.

Presenting the 2008 Ultimate Top 10

1. Madonna ($120.1 million). The Material Girl took in $105.3 million from touring, in addition to $14.8 million from music sales. It’s hard to decide what’s more impressive. The average gross at her shows, mostly in stadiums, was an eye-popping $5.5 million, and she drew about 36,000 people per show. Additionally, the average ticket price was $153.88, easily the highest among Pollstar’s Top 50 grossing tours. Worldwide, according to Pollstar, she amassed $281.6 million.

2. Celine Dion ($106.8 million). Dion has been a regular in the Ultimate Top 10, and she posted her highest finish in a decade after ditching her residency at the Colosseum in Las Vegas for an old-fashioned, if high-tech, tour. She grossed $94 million, added $11.4 million in album sales and $1.3 million in digital tracks. Average ticket price: $119. Dion finished at No. 8 last year.

3. Kenny Chesney ($95.7 million). This favorite son of Luttrell, Tenn., again proved the most popular country music act on the road last year, pulling in $72.2 million, and was the only artist to sell more than 1 million tickets in North America. Chesney sold $20.8 million worth of albums and $2.7 million in digital tracks. Average ticket price: $71.24. He’s up from No. 4 on last year’s list.

4. Eagles ($90.7 million). The group might have taken the long road out of Eden, but it was pretty near paradise on the concert trail with the band’s take of $73.4 million. CD sales added $15.6 million and the veteran act notched $1.7 million worth of downloads. Average ticket price: $128.82.

5. AC/DC ($82 million). The new “Black Ice” album took the veteran Australian hard rock band back to the top of the charts and also made its concert tour one of the year’s hot tickets. The band’s Ultimate Top 10 tally was almost evenly divided, with $37.5 million coming at the concert box office and $44.5 million from album sales. Like Kid Rock, AC/DC doesn’t do digital tracks. Average ticket price: $99.73.

6. Coldplay ($81.6 million). Although finishing sixth, Coldplay is in the enviable position of balancing its power in concert and at retail. About $40.8 million worth of concert tickets were bolstered with $35 million in CD sales and a solid $5.8 million worth of 99-cent track downloads. Average ticket price: $79.87.

7. Bon Jovi ($81.4 million). The New Jersey band posted another good year, with $70.4 million from 45 shows in 31 cities, plus $8.6 million in CD sales and $2.4 million in digital tracks. Average ticket price: $95.39.

8. Bruce Springsteen & the E Street Band ($79 million). It’s been five years since the Boss topped the Ultimate Top 10 with a take of $132.8 million. Last year, he and the E Streeters pulled in $69.3 million on the road and, without a new album, added $7.9 million in catalog sales and $1.8 million in digital tracks. Average ticket price: $94.17.

9. Jonas Brothers ($77.9 million). The newest act to join the Ultimate Top 10 did almost equally well at the box office as at retail: $41.5 million worth of tickets, $30.4 million in albums and $6 million digitally. An average ticket price of $43.69 made theirs the least expensive ticket among Top 10 finishers.

10. Rascal Flatts ($77.1 million). It might be down three slots from its No. 7 finish in 2007, but this good-time country trio is becoming a concert juggernaut. This is the group’s third consecutive year in the Ultimate Top 10, thanks to $55.8 million on the road, $18.2 million in album sales and $3.1 million digitally in 2008. Average ticket price: $59.47.

Filling out the Top 20: Neil Diamond ($70.5 million), Taylor Swift ($62.2 million), Michael Bublé ($59.5 million), Metallica ($56.4 million), Carrie Underwood ($54.9 million), Dave Matthews Band ($51.6 million), the Police ($51 million), Lil Wayne ($50.8 million), Tom Petty ($50.5 million) and Kid Rock ($50. 2 million).

[Rockindeano]

As for the failing business's falling left and right, due to Bush and trickle down, I will have the balls to throw the first punch. This is in fact due to economic philosophy, the wrong kind I might add. Only a Bozo knows you don't lower taxes in a time of war and that Trickle Down sure as Hell doesn't work. Now, we get our huge infusion of cash, to the tune of $800B, to not only fix a crumbling infrastructure, but to create up to 4 million jobs and jump start the economy. That's a lot of money to pump into even the American economy, and within 6-9 months, people will be buying again, including cars. The US automakers recently received 6 billion more bucks to ease credit, and therefore coax more folks into purchasing.

Obama really has no choice here. He probably would have been a bigger spender on domestic projects than W anyway, but with Iraq shutting down, and that $10B per month returning here, an the $800B infusion, the economy will eventually become much more stable and prosperous.

I am curious though, I wonder if Bush had 2 more years what the Hell he would do? You think he would sign off on a stimulus package of $800B, or just re issue some checks and call it good. The more I see here, the more I respect the Founding Fathers for their design of the Government. How they foresaw term limits and 4 year terms is genius.

[conversationpc]

Only a Bozo knows you don't lower taxes in a time of war...

That has nothing to do with it. Federal government revenues were larger than ever after the tax decrease due to people having more money to invest and put back into creating jobs. If it weren't for Bush, the Dems, and most Republicans spending more money than ever, we might've gone a lot longer without heading into a recession.

Now, we get our huge infusion of cash, to the tune of $800B, to not only fix a crumbling infrastructure, but to create up to 4 million jobs and jump start the economy. That's a lot of money to pump into even the American economy, and within 6-9 months, people will be buying again, including cars. The US automakers recently received 6 billion more bucks to ease credit, and therefore coax more folks into purchasing.

I think Obama's "job" creation will end up being something akin to hiring someone to dig a hole and another to fill it back up again. It probably won't work but I hope I'm wrong.

[S2M]

P.S Bet some cash it will really hurt the Rock Tours this coming summer!

Not the big boys apparently.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/01/14/ ... ultimate14

MVP$

Madonna leads our annual list of pop’s highest-grossing acts.

By R and Y Lewis >>>
January 14, 2009 in print edition E-1

It’s official: Madonna tops Calendar’s Ultimate Top 10, our annual survey combining sales of concert tickets, albums and digital downloads to measure which acts were most popular with the broadest swath of music lovers. ¶ Madonna was the No. 1 concert attraction in North America during the year, according to Pollstar, the concert-tracking magazine, and she enjoyed album sales to the tune of $12.5 million in addition to downloads of $2.3 million. ¶ For the year, there’s also a total split between Nielsen SoundScan’s ranking of the 10 biggest-selling performers of 2008 and Pollstar’s Top 10 highest-grossing North American concert tours. ¶ In recent years the Pollstar and SoundScan rosters have veered away from one another. Typically, classic-rock acts that appeal to well-heeled baby boomers rake in the most money at box offices, while hot but still developing pop, R&B and hip-hop artists sell more albums.

The highest any Top 10 SoundScan act finished in Pollstar’s 2008 ranking was No. 13, where the Jonas Brothers (No. 7 among album sellers) landed after playing to 1.3 million fans last year.

Concert revenue hit $4.2 billion in 2008, according to Pollstar, a 7% rise over the previous year, even though the number of tickets sold was down. An 8.4% increase in average ticket prices was behind the rise, figures that are “astounding considering the economic environment in which they were generated,” Pollstar Editor Gary Bongiovanni said.

The road is still where artists tend to make the most money. Only three of the Nielsen SoundScan biggest-selling artists of 2008 – AC/DC, Coldplay and the Jonas Brothers – make the Ultimate Top 10, even folding in their revenue from digital track sales, which we began including in the Ultimate Top 10 ranking last year.

The best example? Taylor Swift sold more albums than any other act last year: 4 million, giving her $52 million in revenue from album sales using $13 as the average price of a CD. But she placed No. 12 in the Ultimate Top 10 calculations because she played only a handful of concerts as a headliner. She spent most of the year as a supporting act on Rascal Flatts’ tour.

That leaves the upper reaches of the Ultimate Top 10 to the veterans, and no one outperformed Madonna, whose combined income of $120 million is a drop from the previous year’s winner, the Police, which logged $140.7 million.

In fact, Madonna’s total is the lowest for a No. 1 since the Ultimate Top 10 began in 1997, when the Rolling Stones posted $100 million on concert ticket and album sales. The record belongs to ‘N Sync, which earned $212.9 million in 2000 at the height of teen pop.

Presenting the 2008 Ultimate Top 10

1. Madonna ($120.1 million). The Material Girl took in $105.3 million from touring, in addition to $14.8 million from music sales. It’s hard to decide what’s more impressive. The average gross at her shows, mostly in stadiums, was an eye-popping $5.5 million, and she drew about 36,000 people per show. Additionally, the average ticket price was $153.88, easily the highest among Pollstar’s Top 50 grossing tours. Worldwide, according to Pollstar, she amassed $281.6 million.

2. Celine Dion ($106.8 million). Dion has been a regular in the Ultimate Top 10, and she posted her highest finish in a decade after ditching her residency at the Colosseum in Las Vegas for an old-fashioned, if high-tech, tour. She grossed $94 million, added $11.4 million in album sales and $1.3 million in digital tracks. Average ticket price: $119. Dion finished at No. 8 last year.

3. Kenny Chesney ($95.7 million). This favorite son of Luttrell, Tenn., again proved the most popular country music act on the road last year, pulling in $72.2 million, and was the only artist to sell more than 1 million tickets in North America. Chesney sold $20.8 million worth of albums and $2.7 million in digital tracks. Average ticket price: $71.24. He’s up from No. 4 on last year’s list.

4. Eagles ($90.7 million). The group might have taken the long road out of Eden, but it was pretty near paradise on the concert trail with the band’s take of $73.4 million. CD sales added $15.6 million and the veteran act notched $1.7 million worth of downloads. Average ticket price: $128.82.

5. AC/DC ($82 million). The new “Black Ice” album took the veteran Australian hard rock band back to the top of the charts and also made its concert tour one of the year’s hot tickets. The band’s Ultimate Top 10 tally was almost evenly divided, with $37.5 million coming at the concert box office and $44.5 million from album sales. Like Kid Rock, AC/DC doesn’t do digital tracks. Average ticket price: $99.73.

6. Coldplay ($81.6 million). Although finishing sixth, Coldplay is in the enviable position of balancing its power in concert and at retail. About $40.8 million worth of concert tickets were bolstered with $35 million in CD sales and a solid $5.8 million worth of 99-cent track downloads. Average ticket price: $79.87.

7. Bon Jovi ($81.4 million). The New Jersey band posted another good year, with $70.4 million from 45 shows in 31 cities, plus $8.6 million in CD sales and $2.4 million in digital tracks. Average ticket price: $95.39.

8. Bruce Springsteen & the E Street Band ($79 million). It’s been five years since the Boss topped the Ultimate Top 10 with a take of $132.8 million. Last year, he and the E Streeters pulled in $69.3 million on the road and, without a new album, added $7.9 million in catalog sales and $1.8 million in digital tracks. Average ticket price: $94.17.

9. Jonas Brothers ($77.9 million). The newest act to join the Ultimate Top 10 did almost equally well at the box office as at retail: $41.5 million worth of tickets, $30.4 million in albums and $6 million digitally. An average ticket price of $43.69 made theirs the least expensive ticket among Top 10 finishers.

10. Rascal Flatts ($77.1 million). It might be down three slots from its No. 7 finish in 2007, but this good-time country trio is becoming a concert juggernaut. This is the group’s third consecutive year in the Ultimate Top 10, thanks to $55.8 million on the road, $18.2 million in album sales and $3.1 million digitally in 2008. Average ticket price: $59.47.

Filling out the Top 20: Neil Diamond ($70.5 million), Taylor Swift ($62.2 million), Michael Bublé ($59.5 million), Metallica ($56.4 million), Carrie Underwood ($54.9 million), Dave Matthews Band ($51.6 million), the Police ($51 million), Lil Wayne ($50.8 million), Tom Petty ($50.5 million) and Kid Rock ($50. 2 million).

Just goes to show the American public will pay ANYTHING to be entertained. Concerts, Sporting events, prostitutes.....etc. We don't mind shelling out $300 for ONE concert seat, or $3000 for a superbowl ticket....but holy fuck if the price of coffee goes up 60 cents, or gas rises a nickel.....

[slucero]

This Spring we'll see the following:

(1) A second larger wave of residential housing mortgage failures;

(2) The first big wave of auto loan failures and repossessions;

(3) Over $40 billion in credit card defaults, smashing the bank lenders;

(4) The first wave of commercial mortgage failures and foreclosures on shopping malls, office buildings and other commercials;

(5) Credit Default Swaps (CDS) originated with no margin money or down payments to the tune of some $500 trillion!

These five converging train wrecks will take the Dow from a dead cat bounce of 10400-10800 back to 7250, or even LOWER.

[stevew2]

Fuck Bank Of America i hope they crash and burn. Them fuckers let me run up over 14,000 on my credit card, than last month restricted my charging prvilages. If i charge anything else on it or even use it for a deposit my funkin interest rate goes up to 25.99% .Im tempted go on fuckin ski trip ,max it out i say Fuck You, that would stimulate the economy dick bobblers

Good Lord, credit cARDS were not designed to charge beer on daily. Christ you drink a lot of flippin Beer Dude!


If it is any consolation American express sent me a letter and closed all of their business open line of credit accounts which I just happened to have one. That will shut down a lot of small businesses that depended on that open line for goods and payroll etc..................

I spent most of that money following Journey around with Lipped vocals , thats why I pissed off

[Don]

Fuck Bank Of America i hope they crash and burn. Them fuckers let me run up over 14,000 on my credit card, than last month restricted my charging prvilages. If i charge anything else on it or even use it for a deposit my funkin interest rate goes up to 25.99% .Im tempted go on fuckin ski trip ,max it out i say Fuck You, that would stimulate the economy dick bobblers

Good Lord, credit cARDS were not designed to charge beer on daily. Christ you drink a lot of flippin Beer Dude!


If it is any consolation American express sent me a letter and closed all of their business open line of credit accounts which I just happened to have one. That will shut down a lot of small businesses that depended on that open line for goods and payroll etc..................

I spent most of that money following Journey around with Lipped vocals , thats why I pissed off

GODDAM YOU! YOU GO HELL FWANK HILL! YOU GO HELL AND DON'T BACK!

(Sorry Stevew but that shit made me think of King of the Hill)