Journey's last album

[The Sushi Hunter]

... I toyed with the pie in the sky idea of a Perry contribution but that'd be loony.

Get Perry to produce...like he should have been doing all along. I like Kevin Shirley, but when Perry tired of the stage, he should have simply moved to the studio and groomed his own replacement.


later~

20/20 hind sight.

[G.I.Jim]

... I toyed with the pie in the sky idea of a Perry contribution but that'd be loony.

Get Perry to produce...like he should have been doing all along. I like Kevin Shirley, but when Perry tired of the stage, he should have simply moved to the studio and groomed his own replacement.


later~

What if your wife told you YOU should find yourself a replacement, then also help him be as good as you were? Just saying... it's not just a job. Music that you create is often something with a lot of sentimental value and you have emotions on the real songs. I write some songs just out of nowhere, but the ones I write that have true meaning to them are a lot different.

It's really hard to explain, but I feel very close to a couple of my songs and refuse to use them in any projects because of my attachments to them. I know it sounds retarded, but that's just how I feel about them, and I'm sure Perry is even more wrapped up in his songs than me. I just do it for a hobby.

[Arkansas]

... I toyed with the pie in the sky idea of a Perry contribution but that'd be loony.

Get Perry to produce...like he should have been doing all along. I like Kevin Shirley, but when Perry tired of the stage, he should have simply moved to the studio and groomed his own replacement.


later~

What if your wife told you YOU should find yourself a replacement, then also help him be as good as you were? Just saying... it's not just a job. Music that you create is often something with a lot of sentimental value and you have emotions on the real songs. I write some songs just out of nowhere, but the ones I write that have true meaning to them are a lot different.

It's really hard to explain, but I feel very close to a couple of my songs and refuse to use them in any projects because of my attachments to them. I know it sounds retarded, but that's just how I feel about them, and I'm sure Perry is even more wrapped up in his songs than me. I just do it for a hobby.

Bingo! Exactly! Perry could have kept control of his 'kids' by staying in the band. What better way could he have dictated his (in part) songs than by hand-picking the band's next singer? He could have become the greatest coach and producer of new talent by staying hands-on. Wouldn't that be the greatest success story? And it's not just owning your own songs, it's helping the new guy(s) to craft new songs in the Journey image. That's the key. Not totally letting go of your songs (kids), but guiding new development.

Much like a sports player becomes coach of the team, isn't it a natural progression of a career? Acknowledging that you're not quiting, moreso, you're keeping your own music alive by guiding and producing the very vehicle that published you. He'd be retaining somewhat of creative control for the band, without all the legal b!tch-slapping, and the guys in the band that want to continue on would still have the successful voice at the helm.

A successful corporate leader grooms his successor. He 'retires' to the boardroom as a director, rather than a CEO. All the key players still have the creative freedom to do as they will, however, they respect their once-General as a consultant.

Think about it. Wouldn't we all love to see Journey continue with Miles Schon whenever his Dad decides not to do it any more? Why kill a viable business by completely quiting? Why not simply pass the reins? Why not keep everything civil? Why not create a dynasty?

Don't kill Journey. Perry (and Schon & Cain, et al) had/has the opportunity to keep Journey alive for the ages...even if the Journey eventually changes flavours, it's still in the greater family.

Now that would be a true success story, and a great rock-n-roll story, no?


later~

[Don]

... I toyed with the pie in the sky idea of a Perry contribution but that'd be loony.

Get Perry to produce...like he should have been doing all along. I like Kevin Shirley, but when Perry tired of the stage, he should have simply moved to the studio and groomed his own replacement.


later~

What if your wife told you YOU should find yourself a replacement, then also help him be as good as you were? Just saying... it's not just a job. Music that you create is often something with a lot of sentimental value and you have emotions on the real songs. I write some songs just out of nowhere, but the ones I write that have true meaning to them are a lot different.

It's really hard to explain, but I feel very close to a couple of my songs and refuse to use them in any projects because of my attachments to them. I know it sounds retarded, but that's just how I feel about them, and I'm sure Perry is even more wrapped up in his songs than me. I just do it for a hobby.

Bingo! Exactly! Perry could have kept control of his 'kids' by staying in the band. What better way could he have dictated his (in part) songs than by hand-picking the band's next singer? He could have become the greatest coach and producer of new talent by staying hands-on. Wouldn't that be the greatest success story? And it's not just owning your own songs, it's helping the new guy(s) to craft new songs in the Journey image. That's the key. Not totally letting go of your songs (kids), but guiding new development.

Much like a sports player becomes coach of the team, isn't it a natural progression of a career? Acknowledging that you're not quiting, moreso, you're keeping your own music alive by guiding and producing the very vehicle that published you. He'd be retaining somewhat of creative control for the band, without all the legal b!tch-slapping, and the guys in the band that want to continue on would still have the successful voice at the helm.

A successful corporate leader grooms his successor. He 'retires' to the boardroom as a director, rather than a CEO. All the key players still have the creative freedom to do as they will, however, they respect their once-General as a consultant.

Think about it. Wouldn't we all love to see Journey continue with Miles Schon whenever his Dad decides not to do it any more? Why kill a viable business by completely quiting? Why not simply pass the reins? Why not keep everything civil? Why not create a dynasty?

Don't kill Journey. Perry (and Schon & Cain, et al) had/has the opportunity to keep Journey alive for the ages...even if the Journey eventually changes flavours, it's still in the greater family.

Now that would be a true success story, and a great rock-n-roll story, no?


later~

So are we talking about Journey becoming the gringo version of Menudo?

[Arianddu]

... I toyed with the pie in the sky idea of a Perry contribution but that'd be loony.

Get Perry to produce...like he should have been doing all along. I like Kevin Shirley, but when Perry tired of the stage, he should have simply moved to the studio and groomed his own replacement.


later~

What if your wife told you YOU should find yourself a replacement, then also help him be as good as you were? Just saying... it's not just a job. Music that you create is often something with a lot of sentimental value and you have emotions on the real songs. I write some songs just out of nowhere, but the ones I write that have true meaning to them are a lot different.

It's really hard to explain, but I feel very close to a couple of my songs and refuse to use them in any projects because of my attachments to them. I know it sounds retarded, but that's just how I feel about them, and I'm sure Perry is even more wrapped up in his songs than me. I just do it for a hobby.

Bingo! Exactly! Perry could have kept control of his 'kids' by staying in the band. What better way could he have dictated his (in part) songs than by hand-picking the band's next singer? He could have become the greatest coach and producer of new talent by staying hands-on. Wouldn't that be the greatest success story? And it's not just owning your own songs, it's helping the new guy(s) to craft new songs in the Journey image. That's the key. Not totally letting go of your songs (kids), but guiding new development.

Much like a sports player becomes coach of the team, isn't it a natural progression of a career? Acknowledging that you're not quiting, moreso, you're keeping your own music alive by guiding and producing the very vehicle that published you. He'd be retaining somewhat of creative control for the band, without all the legal b!tch-slapping, and the guys in the band that want to continue on would still have the successful voice at the helm.

A successful corporate leader grooms his successor. He 'retires' to the boardroom as a director, rather than a CEO. All the key players still have the creative freedom to do as they will, however, they respect their once-General as a consultant.

Think about it. Wouldn't we all love to see Journey continue with Miles Schon whenever his Dad decides not to do it any more? Why kill a viable business by completely quiting? Why not simply pass the reins? Why not keep everything civil? Why not create a dynasty?

Don't kill Journey. Perry (and Schon & Cain, et al) had/has the opportunity to keep Journey alive for the ages...even if the Journey eventually changes flavours, it's still in the greater family.

Now that would be a true success story, and a great rock-n-roll story, no?

later~

It doesn't work because people are human. My ex and I have a great, friendly relationship, we get on really well. His new girlfriend is a friend of mine, and I love her to pieces. Fortunately, my ex and I didn't end up having kids, but if we had, I would be absolutley working with him to make sure that the relationships involved were secure and stable, that I was welcome in his house and he and his girlfriend were welcome in mine, etc etc etc. About as pleasant as you could get, right?

Except there is no way I would get involved in their relationship. Bad for me, bad for them. I can't think of anything worse than being in a relationship with someone, and having their ex 'teaching' me how to be in it. And what happens when the next lot of kids come along? Two sets of parenting? Or do the younger ones have to be raised in exactly the same way as the older ones, even if it isn't suitable to the second wife?

Can you really imagine Perry just sitting back and saying 'sure, go out on stage with another singer. Give someone else the one part I live for - the performing for an audience - and I'll produce. Sure, I don't have to go out on the road, I don't have to put my voice through the agony every night, but hey, I don't get the validation for my music that I need either' ('Cause in how many interviews did Perry say he quit reading reviews and just based it on the crowd's response?)

What does he do? Keep writing songs for someone else to sing? Part of his writing technique, what he brought to Journey's songs, was writing for his voice. So how does that work? And what happens when the new guy wants to start writing? Augeri, Soto and Pineda have all commented on the giant shadow of Perry they have to live up to - can you imagine how much harder that would be when he's sitting in the production box, watching everything you do? And you have to get it how he wants it, not how you want it. And hell, he might just want his job back at any minute, and who's going to say no?

It sounds like a recipe for utter hell, to be honest. It's a lovely, idealised fantasy, but I don't think any of the egos involved are able to be that selfless.

As for Miles Schon taking over when Neal's had enough - HELL NO!!! Let the kid go out and make his own mark. I don't want to see Journey the Next Generation any time soon. Let him keep his own band, his own style, do his own thing, find his own fame... and maybe continue the Schon family tradition of fathers writing with their sons' band on a few classic tracks. That would be cool.

[Arkansas]

So, do successful companies of today shut down tomorrow because the former leaders don't want their products being marketed any more? What's wrong with carrying a business forward? What's wrong with building new products based on the current company model?

If everyone thought and worked toward 'the product dies when I quit', then where would American industry be?

Point is, again, Journey can live for the ages, in whatever flavour may come, with the right nurturing. And so today's/yesterday's band leaders should consider the possibility of keeping Journey alive by ALL means.

Call it idealistic, but it's very possible. And I think America would applaud it.

Btw, my inlaws & exlaws will continue to thrive with the family's interests...because that's the way it should be.


later~

[StoneCold]

So, do successful companies of today shut down tomorrow because the former leaders don't want their products being marketed any more? What's wrong with carrying a business forward? What's wrong with building new products based on the current company model?

If everyone thought and worked toward 'the product dies when I quit', then where would American industry be?

Point is, again, Journey can live for the ages, in whatever flavour may come, with the right nurturing. And so today's/yesterday's band leaders should consider the possibility of keeping Journey alive by ALL means.

Call it idealistic, but it's very possible. And I think America would applaud it.

Btw, my inlaws & exlaws will continue to thrive with the family's interests...because that's the way it should be.


later~

I agree that Perry "could've" held onto the reins and done what you outlined but from what we know from his personality, I doubt he would've been satisfied. What song did he do after he left?

"I Stand Alone"

I also don't know if Schon and Cain wanted him making decisions if he wasn't gonna sing and tour.

As for Miles taking over for his Dad, and players getting interchanged, I'd rather see the band have an end. Schon's the last holdout to the old Journey and once he hangs it up, I wouldn't follow any more iterations of the band.

[wednesday's child]

So, do successful companies of today shut down tomorrow because the former leaders don't want their products being marketed any more? What's wrong with carrying a business forward? What's wrong with building new products based on the current company model?

Journey is supposed to be a rock band upon which a business can be based, not the other way around.

[SherriBerry]

So, do successful companies of today shut down tomorrow because the former leaders don't want their products being marketed any more? What's wrong with carrying a business forward? What's wrong with building new products based on the current company model?

Journey is supposed to be a rock band upon which a business can be based, not the other way around.

Journey is not some soulless corporate entity with interchangeable players and an assembly line product -
that seems to be the primary lesson of the past 3 years.

Journey is a rock band with amazing, rare talent - you can't just train someone to play like Neal Schon
or sing like Steve Perry or write melodies like Jonathan Cain. They have rare gifts and magic happens when
they create music together that makes it unique to that band. You can bring in a new player and change
the dynamic of the group and alter the sound, but without any core members it would cease to be Journey
and be an entirely new entity.

It's difficult enough to listen to Journey without SP, and it's so obvious a special part of the magic is missing,
but it's still surviving in Neal. If Neal ever decided to leave Journey, the 'Party's Over' for me too. A band
has its time and place in history and at some point the story ends.

[joonrock]

Biggest problem with Revelations that need not be repeated on the next album: TURN THE BACKING VOCALS UP TWO NOTCHES. You can barely hear them at all on disc one.

I do think they were trying to cover up that it is just BGTY all over again by keeping the bv's lower. Wise choice IMO

[Gideon]

Biggest problem with Revelations that need not be repeated on the next album: TURN THE BACKING VOCALS UP TWO NOTCHES. You can barely hear them at all on disc one.

I do think they were trying to cover up that it is just BGTY all over again by keeping the bv's lower. Wise choice IMO

I disagree, completely. You know, people also detect tremendous similarities between MoL and SW, but no one here complains. I guess Journey with Perry are allowed to be inspired by their previous works, but if Journey with Arnel attempt the same thing? Damn them to hell.

The only similarity that NWA has to BGtY is the chorus. Everything else about the song is totally different -- the solo, the bridge, the lyrics. There is a formula to most Journey songs, rockers or ballads.

[Don]

Biggest problem with Revelations that need not be repeated on the next album: TURN THE BACKING VOCALS UP TWO NOTCHES. You can barely hear them at all on disc one.

I do think they were trying to cover up that it is just BGTY all over again by keeping the bv's lower. Wise choice IMO

I disagree, completely. You know, people also detect tremendous similarities between MoL and SW, but no one here complains. I guess Journey with Perry are allowed to be inspired by their previous works, but if Journey with Arnel attempt the same thing? Damn them to hell.

The only similarity that NWA has to BGtY is the chorus. Everything else about the song is totally different -- the solo, the bridge, the lyrics. There is a formula to most Journey songs, rockers or ballads.

I thought they were supposed to have stolen the melody for NWA from Believe in me (JSS), which in turn was ripped from BGTY.

[Gideon]

Biggest problem with Revelations that need not be repeated on the next album: TURN THE BACKING VOCALS UP TWO NOTCHES. You can barely hear them at all on disc one.

I do think they were trying to cover up that it is just BGTY all over again by keeping the bv's lower. Wise choice IMO

I disagree, completely. You know, people also detect tremendous similarities between MoL and SW, but no one here complains. I guess Journey with Perry are allowed to be inspired by their previous works, but if Journey with Arnel attempt the same thing? Damn them to hell.

The only similarity that NWA has to BGtY is the chorus. Everything else about the song is totally different -- the solo, the bridge, the lyrics. There is a formula to most Journey songs, rockers or ballads.

I thought they were supposed to have stolen the melody for NWA from Believe in me (JSS), which in turn was ripped from BGTY.

That's the claim. But I don't see how; seems like half of these people really can't justify just what the fuck comes out of their mouths when it comes to the new record. Don't get me wrong, there are tons of valid criticisms for Revelation, but "omg they so ripped off [random song]!" isn't one of them.

Though I will readily admit that the opening solo to NWA sounds very much like the one to BIM.

[Don]

Biggest problem with Revelations that need not be repeated on the next album: TURN THE BACKING VOCALS UP TWO NOTCHES. You can barely hear them at all on disc one.

I do think they were trying to cover up that it is just BGTY all over again by keeping the bv's lower. Wise choice IMO

I disagree, completely. You know, people also detect tremendous similarities between MoL and SW, but no one here complains. I guess Journey with Perry are allowed to be inspired by their previous works, but if Journey with Arnel attempt the same thing? Damn them to hell.

The only similarity that NWA has to BGtY is the chorus. Everything else about the song is totally different -- the solo, the bridge, the lyrics. There is a formula to most Journey songs, rockers or ballads.

I thought they were supposed to have stolen the melody for NWA from Believe in me (JSS), which in turn was ripped from BGTY.

That's the claim. But I don't see how; seems like half of these people really can't justify just what the fuck comes out of their mouths when it comes to the new record. Don't get me wrong, there are tons of valid criticisms for Revelation, but "omg they so ripped off [random song]!" isn't one of them.

Though I will readily admit that the opening solo to NWA sounds very much like the one to BIM.

I have no problems with Disc one of Revelation, other than their halfhearted attempt at county music with AATY.

[Gideon]

I have several nitpicks with Revelation and one or two major complaints with it.

For example, I really liked "After All These Years" for numerous reasons: because it offered several subtle changes from the typical Journey ballad and it has one of Neal's finest solos on it. I was much happier with the rocker to ballad ratio compared to previous albums, but I still think we could have had two more solid rock songs; "What It Takes To Win" and "Faith in the Heartland" suck, imo, though I do appreciate Pineda's vocals on the former. "Wildest Dreams" kicks more ass live than anything -- there's too much Pineda on that particular song; he drowns out the backing vocals and the drums and guitar.

[Arkansas]

... their halfhearted attempt at county music with AATY.

Said it a hundred times, AATY should/could be a country duet.
And I guess it still can be...if someone would just do it.

And not only country, but maybe Don Henley could reprise this song with another Patty Smyth duet. ?


later~

[jrnyman28]

You know, people also detect tremendous similarities between MoL and SW, but no one here complains.

I complained...

[SF-Dano]

So, do successful companies of today shut down tomorrow because the former leaders don't want their products being marketed any more? What's wrong with carrying a business forward? What's wrong with building new products based on the current company model?

Journey is supposed to be a rock band upon which a business can be based, not the other way around.

Journey is not some soulless corporate entity with interchangeable players and an assembly line product -
that seems to be the primary lesson of the past 3 years.

Journey is a rock band with amazing, rare talent - you can't just train someone to play like Neal Schon
or sing like Steve Perry or write melodies like Jonathan Cain. They have rare gifts and magic happens when
they create music together that makes it unique to that band. You can bring in a new player and change
the dynamic of the group and alter the sound, but without any core members it would cease to be Journey
and be an entirely new entity.

It's difficult enough to listen to Journey without SP, and it's so obvious a special part of the magic is missing,
but it's still surviving in Neal. If Neal ever decided to leave Journey, the 'Party's Over' for me too. A band
has its time and place in history and at some point the story ends.

I always thought the story........"It goes on and on and on and on" (Sorry, I couldn't resist)