Journey - Where's the fun?

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Postby Gideon » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:35 am

RocknRoll wrote:
Gideon wrote:I agree wholeheartedly

Personally, I'm tired of hearing all the old shit. I realize that in order to appeal to the casual fan that they must hook the biggest singles -- DSB, OA, Faithfully -- but Neal and company fumbled the ball by pulling relatively obscure songs out, running the gamut from "La Do Da" to even (which, while popular, isn't one of their biggest hits).

Why not wrap up six or seven of the biggest hits and then the rest be new material? They're too old and too experienced to think they'll have a second coming.



Hey, these are 2 of my favorite songs. I was in heaven when La Do Da was played with JSS and Arnel. :D :) :D

Today, people come to concerts to hear the music they're familiar with, a lot of fans know Infinity on while some others only recognize from Escape on. It's been said over and over again, Classic Rock fans (the majority of Journey concert goers) come to hear the songs they remember and accept a few new songs thrown in and please don't bore me with accoustics in concert. Save those for the TV appearance.


Perhaps that is the case, but I think we set too much stock in categorizing music; there was a time when Journey was but a generic rock band playing songs that no one had been familiar with. It took time and effort and energy for those songs to become hits and then staples and then, lastly, anthems for our lives and enjoyment.

Journey is a rock band. One that, yes, peaked out in terms of public awareness years ago, but one that continues to command nigh-peerless skill and work ethic. Should we stop caring about new material because Journey is a "classic" rock band?

I don't.

I like seeing what my favorite bands can do next, not simply reliving the past. You're limited that way. Which is why I would love nothing more for them to put out an album at least every two years and give great attention to those new songs at concerts.

They clearly want new hits and new songs to be well received, otherwise they wouldn't be putting out anything new at all. This is a band who's been on top of the world once. Why should they give a shit about what the casual fan wants? Or, should I say, why should they give a shit about what a casual fan wants relative to the desires of fans who have actually stuck with them and pay attention to the Arrivals, Generations, and Revelations of their catalogue?

Sure they may lose some (or a lot) of fans. But they might gain a couple more in the trade off.

Just my two cents.
'Nothing was bigger for Journey than 1981’s “Escape” album. “I have to attribute that to Jonathan coming in and joining the writing team,” Steve Perry (Feb 2012).'
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Postby Duncan » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:04 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Duncan wrote:I think the only reason they keep touring is for the adulation and if it's not that it has to be for the money. Neal is on record as saying that he is not really into Journey music and he certainly looks bored shitless on stage most of the time. I'm sure he would much rather be playing something more experimental.

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Now playing: ALiBi - No Reason


He probably sits and plays all the experimental stuff when he's alone. I would say that experimental is not as main stream as what Journey plays now and is known to play in the past. So with that said, why would anyone want to step backwards, as what it would be doing if he just started doing experimental stuff only?


I don't think pushing the boundaries of your creativity is taking a backwards step. Cain/Schon could probably write Journey songs in their sleep.

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Now playing: Paolo Nutini - White Lies
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:21 am

Duncan wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Duncan wrote:I think the only reason they keep touring is for the adulation and if it's not that it has to be for the money. Neal is on record as saying that he is not really into Journey music and he certainly looks bored shitless on stage most of the time. I'm sure he would much rather be playing something more experimental.

----------------
Now playing: ALiBi - No Reason


He probably sits and plays all the experimental stuff when he's alone. I would say that experimental is not as main stream as what Journey plays now and is known to play in the past. So with that said, why would anyone want to step backwards, as what it would be doing if he just started doing experimental stuff only?


I don't think pushing the boundaries of your creativity is taking a backwards step. Cain/Schon could probably write Journey songs in their sleep.

----------------
Now playing: Paolo Nutini - White Lies


And I could probably work at McDonald's in my sleep too like when I was in high school. But why would I want to quit my current job to go back there? :)
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Postby Duncan » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:32 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Duncan wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Duncan wrote:I think the only reason they keep touring is for the adulation and if it's not that it has to be for the money. Neal is on record as saying that he is not really into Journey music and he certainly looks bored shitless on stage most of the time. I'm sure he would much rather be playing something more experimental.

----------------
Now playing: ALiBi - No Reason


He probably sits and plays all the experimental stuff when he's alone. I would say that experimental is not as main stream as what Journey plays now and is known to play in the past. So with that said, why would anyone want to step backwards, as what it would be doing if he just started doing experimental stuff only?


I don't think pushing the boundaries of your creativity is taking a backwards step. Cain/Schon could probably write Journey songs in their sleep.

----------------
Now playing: Paolo Nutini - White Lies


And I could probably work at McDonald's in my sleep too like when I was in high school. But why would I want to quit my current job to go back there? :)


Unless I've missed something Schon and Cain are still in Journey. However I have heard that Valory's position is under threat as there is young hot shot bass player making big waves. Think of a young Glen Hughes.

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Now playing: Paolo Nutini - Loving You
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Postby jrnyman28 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:38 am

For Journey to successfully play more new music than classics, they needed to start on the Arrival tour and continue with each tour from there. They played 3 Arrival songs on that tour and then dropped them for the next tour. Then they played 2 songs from Red13 and maybe one song from Arrival, but then dropped 'em. Then, at the beginning of the GEnerations tour they overdid the new material in the beginning with 8 tracks from Generations, but then scaled them back to 3. They needed to start with 3-5 Arrival tracks. On the next tour there should have still been at least 3 Arrival tracks and the 2 Red 13 tracks. With Generations there should have been those 5-7 tracks already being played and 3-5 Generations tracks. Now Journey would be sitting around 10-12 "new" tracks in the set and still the 'dirty dozen'. With Revelation they could have finally pushed the balance point toward post-Perry material.

The dirty dozen needed to be trimmed down to a half-dozen by this next tour...and still have room for a 'rare gem' on occasion. But I agree with a previous poster that says the deep album cuts were a treat but the band could easily have played a brand new track with the same response. Both would cater to the diehard base. But you want those casual fans hearing your newest material instead of a rare deep cut...

I guess my main bitch with Journey has not changed in 10 years...
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Postby Don » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:49 am

They played to around 800,000 people this last tour. If they would have played the new music a little bit more, maybe they would have a million sales of Revelation by now. By not promoting enough of the new tracks while on tour, and radio stations not playing anything beyond AATY on the A/C channels, the only Journey music selling was the Greatest Hits, hitting 15X platinum. People bought the music they were hearing at the shows (taking them back to their youth, I guess) and it wasn't the new music obviously.
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Postby RocknRoll » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:33 am

Gideon wrote:
Perhaps that is the case, but I think we set too much stock in categorizing music; there was a time when Journey was but a generic rock band playing songs that no one had been familiar with. It took time and effort and energy for those songs to become hits and then staples and then, lastly, anthems for our lives and enjoyment.

Journey is a rock band. One that, yes, peaked out in terms of public awareness years ago, but one that continues to command nigh-peerless skill and work ethic. Should we stop caring about new material because Journey is a "classic" rock band?

I don't.

I like seeing what my favorite bands can do next, not simply reliving the past. You're limited that way. Which is why I would love nothing more for them to put out an album at least every two years and give great attention to those new songs at concerts.

They clearly want new hits and new songs to be well received, otherwise they wouldn't be putting out anything new at all. This is a band who's been on top of the world once. Why should they give a shit about what the casual fan wants? Or, should I say, why should they give a shit about what a casual fan wants relative to the desires of fans who have actually stuck with them and pay attention to the Arrivals, Generations, and Revelations of their catalogue?

Sure they may lose some (or a lot) of fans. But they might gain a couple more in the trade off.

Just my two cents.


Good Point about the Fan's that stuck with them. Unfortunately, the casual fans outnumber the diehards bigtime.

I copied some setlists from last year: AC/DC and Journey in London. Looks like they started out with the same intentions, both played 5 new songs.

This is the full setlist for the Black Ice world tour

01.Rock 'N Roll Train (from Black Ice, 2008)
02. Hell Ain't A Bad Place To Be (from Let There Be Rock, 1977)
03. Back In Black (from Back In Black, 1980)
04. Stiff Upper Lip (from Stiff Upper Lip, 2000)
05. Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap (from Dirty Deeds, 1976)
06. Thunderstruck (from The Razors Edge, 1990)
07. Hard As A Rock (from Ballbreaker, 1995)
08. The Jack (from TNT, 1975)
09. Hells Bells (from Back In Black, 1980)
10. Shoot To Thrill (from Back In Black, 1980)
11. You Shook Me All Night Long (from Back In Black, 1980)
12. TNT (from TNT, 1975)
13. Whole Lotta Rosie (from Let There Be Rock, 1977)
14. Let There Be Rock (from Let There Be Rock, 1977)
15. Highway To Hell (from Highway To Hell, 1979)
16. For Those About To Rock (from For Those About To Rock, 1981)
17. Anything Goes (from Black Ice, 2008)
18. Big Jack (from Black Ice, 2008)
19. War Machine (from Black Ice, 2008)
20. Black Ice (from Black Ice, 2008)

21. Bad Boy Boogie (from Let There Be Rock, 1977)

Journey at London Hammersmith.

1. Never Walk Away
2. Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)
3. Only the Young
4. The Revelation
5. Keep on Running (Deen on lead vocals)
6. Ask the Lonely
7. Who's Cryin Now
8. Change For The Better
9. Lights
10. After All These Years
11. Mother,Father (Deen on lead vocals)
12. Jon's solo spot on piano
13. Open Arms
14. short jam - Neal on guitar & Jon on mouth organ
15. Wheel in the Sky
16. Edge of the Blade
17. Chain Reaction
18. Where Did I Lose Your Love
19. Wildest Dreams
20. Faithfully
21. Don't Stop Beleivin'
Encores:
22. Escape
23. Any Way You Want It

This reviewer actually called Edge of the Blade a new song. ugh :cry:
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Postby FishinMagician » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:44 am

Gideon wrote:
RocknRoll wrote:
Gideon wrote:I agree wholeheartedly

Personally, I'm tired of hearing all the old shit. I realize that in order to appeal to the casual fan that they must hook the biggest singles -- DSB, OA, Faithfully -- but Neal and company fumbled the ball by pulling relatively obscure songs out, running the gamut from "La Do Da" to even (which, while popular, isn't one of their biggest hits).

Why not wrap up six or seven of the biggest hits and then the rest be new material? They're too old and too experienced to think they'll have a second coming.



Hey, these are 2 of my favorite songs. I was in heaven when La Do Da was played with JSS and Arnel. :D :) :D

Today, people come to concerts to hear the music they're familiar with, a lot of fans know Infinity on while some others only recognize from Escape on. It's been said over and over again, Classic Rock fans (the majority of Journey concert goers) come to hear the songs they remember and accept a few new songs thrown in and please don't bore me with accoustics in concert. Save those for the TV appearance.


Perhaps that is the case, but I think we set too much stock in categorizing music; there was a time when Journey was but a generic rock band playing songs that no one had been familiar with. It took time and effort and energy for those songs to become hits and then staples and then, lastly, anthems for our lives and enjoyment.

Journey is a rock band. One that, yes, peaked out in terms of public awareness years ago, but one that continues to command nigh-peerless skill and work ethic. Should we stop caring about new material because Journey is a "classic" rock band?

I don't.

I like seeing what my favorite bands can do next, not simply reliving the past. You're limited that way. Which is why I would love nothing more for them to put out an album at least every two years and give great attention to those new songs at concerts.

They clearly want new hits and new songs to be well received, otherwise they wouldn't be putting out anything new at all. This is a band who's been on top of the world once. Why should they give a shit about what the casual fan wants? Or, should I say, why should they give a shit about what a casual fan wants relative to the desires of fans who have actually stuck with them and pay attention to the Arrivals, Generations, and Revelations of their catalogue?

Sure they may lose some (or a lot) of fans. But they might gain a couple more in the trade off.

Just my two cents.


well put
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Re: Journey - Where's the fun?

Postby finalfight » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:47 am

Deb wrote:IMO, Journey's funk and spontaniety, left with JSS.


It left a long time before that but just came back to visit for a short while.
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Re: Journey - Where's the fun?

Postby tammy » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:01 pm

parfait wrote:I was watching some youtube vids of Journey and Toto. The thing that I think is clearly lacking in Journey is their groove. Early Journey, (late 1970), like this roadrunner performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9zPZnOr0F4 has a good groove. I've been to a few Journey concerts, one with Augeri and one with Arnel, and both of 'em seemed like just a simple routine. Mr. Valory would walk around making those ugly ass faces and Cain would raise his hand up in the air now and then. I'm pretty sure Deen uses a click track or some kind of metronome as well, wich gives no room what so ever for a spontanious solo or even a few simple fills. I'm sure a lot of peeps go to a concert to see the songs performed just like on the CD, but where the hell is the fun with that? I love Journey, I do. But then again I think that in many ways Journey is inferior to bands like Toto. Check this performance of English Eyes out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GspOC33xTxw&feature=channel

The funk and spontanuity(?) is just crazy. I dare you not to get goosebumps when Jenny Douglas starts to sing :wink: I simply don't see where the fun is anymore with Journey? I thinks it's been reduced to a corporate machine, witch the replies from Arnel after the Super Bowl, implies as well. He's just a hired mic meant to keep the Journey corporation rolling. Jonathan Cain looks like he's having as much fun as he would getting a bikini wax from Rosie O'Donnell while he's playing live. Toto is clearly better than Journey in some ways. Jeff Porcaro, now Simon Phillips, are both much more talented drummers than Castronovo, and Valory can't play a funky bassline to save his life. But then again, Journey has sold a lot more records, almost the double of Toto I think. What are you guys take on this?

I simply can't see what fun it would be to go to the next Journey concert - cause' we all know it'll be the dirty dozen and a few other picks. Steve Perry can groove like hell, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxQsbaBpjto, and so could Neal in stuff like She Walk like a Lady. But today? Meh... Personally I think they should call it quits or go in a completly new direction - not the oiled and dull machine they have been reduced to, today. :)


Well, they did try to change it up a bit in 2005 when Ross, Neal and Jon would sing a song each...but, the audience went to the potty. Jon only gets to raise his hand now 'cuz the boy just can't dance (roll tape).
Journey is like a long marriage...now in the comfortable stage.
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Postby StoneCold » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:15 pm

'sall relative.

They're just chuggin' out the last few years graspin' for that last bit of coin. Pineda made them bankable for a little longer.

What's the fun in that you say? well its not rip roarin' but if all you want is a few new tunes from the talents of friga and fro then its acceptable I guess.

to draw any major crowds they better get good touring partners to make the buck bang.
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Postby Rick » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:18 pm

I've had a blast going to see them these last couple of years. I hadn't been to a Journey concert in a long, long time, so it was so refreshing to get to see them again. Each show better than the previous. I love the music, the energy of the crowd, and especially hooking up with great MR folks. You just can't beat that.
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Postby Don » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:21 pm

StoneCold wrote:'sall relative.

They're just chuggin' out the last few years graspin' for that last bit of coin. Pineda made them bankable for a little longer.

What's the fun in that you say? well its not rip roarin' but if all you want is a few new tunes from the talents of friga and fro then its acceptable I guess.

to draw any major crowds they better get good touring partners to make the buck bang.


That's so true. I don't know how much you paid for your Greek tickets but mine were only worth it because of Heart being their also.
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Postby StoneCold » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:24 pm

Gunbot wrote:
StoneCold wrote:'sall relative.

They're just chuggin' out the last few years graspin' for that last bit of coin. Pineda made them bankable for a little longer.

What's the fun in that you say? well its not rip roarin' but if all you want is a few new tunes from the talents of friga and fro then its acceptable I guess.

to draw any major crowds they better get good touring partners to make the buck bang.


That's so true. I don't know how much you paid for your Greek tickets but mine were only worth it because of Heart being their also.


Enjoyed the whole thing. Cheap Trick is an old favorite. You can't go wrong with Heart and Arnel was on that night so I had fun.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:38 am

RocknRoll wrote:
Journey at London Hammersmith.

1. Never Walk Away
2. Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)
3. Only the Young
4. The Revelation
5. Keep on Running (Deen on lead vocals)
6. Ask the Lonely
7. Who's Cryin Now
8. Change For The Better
9. Lights
10. After All These Years
11. Mother,Father (Deen on lead vocals)
12. Jon's solo spot on piano
13. Open Arms
14. short jam - Neal on guitar & Jon on mouth organ
15. Wheel in the Sky
16. Edge of the Blade
17. Chain Reaction
18. Where Did I Lose Your Love
19. Wildest Dreams
20. Faithfully
21. Don't Stop Beleivin'
Encores:
22. Escape
23. Any Way You Want It

This reviewer actually called Edge of the Blade a new song. ugh :cry:


I get the worst visual imaginable from reading number 14 on this list.
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Postby Rhiannon » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:42 am

Official Setlist wrote:Jon on mouth organ


You can't make this stuff up, people.
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Re: Journey - Where's the fun?

Postby jrnyman28 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:06 am

tammy wrote:Journey is like a long marriage...now in the comfortable stage.


Truer words...
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