RECENT SP mention RE: "new material"

[Ftloperry]

i love nuno! he's one of the biggest loons i've ever met. i think he's got a mancrush on steve.

Tell Nuno to back away from my Man! I know I can beat his twigged out ass.

uh-oh, battle of the manloons!

Let's get ready to ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumble!

[Rhiannon]

That's NOT a knock at Perry. It's just me trying to make my point that the FIVE guy combination led to Journey's success, not one person in particular. Hence why not a damn one of them has ever done anything equal or close to rivaling the success apart from the four. That's just what I see.

LOL, come on Rhiannon, pick a fucking side and stay there at least for 6 months.

Perry built up the Journey so high and so solid, that they couldn't possibly crumble to dust with what was in the bank. They did try however, to run it into the ground, and damned near succeeded. Major effort points for lip syncing. That was a goodie. Major points for using people in the band, singers, web designers, and oh yeah, fans. Seriously, you don't see the slightest dichotomy between Journey fore and journey current? Are you saying the paint is just as shiny today, and the motor just as strong?

Like I said, pull your head out, you're better than this.

Perry is responsible for Journey achieving the heights they did. This is not up for debate. The scorecard will tell you when you look at it, that 5 players played, and they as a group did escalate the mountain together, however, before Perry joined, they were on the ground floor. When Perry left, they were quite high in the sky, regardless of what the Perry haters will tell you. 10 years out, and they are playing 2,500 seat clubs(and don't go to the manila card on me here, as that is a fuckin aberration). Despite what the Pineda Army will tell you, and it's always 100% blind myopic bullshit by the way, "Perry never got Journey to a stadium, but Arnel got them to the Super Bowl." If Perry were still in Journey, they most likely would have played the Super Bowl, not the beer garden in the south parking lot. The facts are, Perry is the sole reason that Journey was a household name. Sure, Schon and Friga were important, as was Smith, but none of those guys could single handily be responsible for the heights attained, like Perry was/is.

Ask yourself this question. Would Journey exist today, if they started from ground zero, post TBF? Would they be around today, in the 10 years since perry walked out? What body of work do they possess to suggest that they would be a player on tour or in sales? Revelation sold 500K copies. You think they would have sold 40K if there wasn't a history of the legacy? LOL, they wouldn't even make it on the big stage nowadays if not for the history. And before any of you say, "bullshit," let's see journey play NO Perry songs at all, and then show me the tour numbers. They would be lucky to draw 500 people a gig.

Dean, you're arguing to support what I said... only you're not seeing it.

...And I don't "pick sides" so I'm free to disperse the abuse and love where I see fit, I mean, did you see Miss St. Patrick's Day? Is that the act of someone with a cheerleader or hater bias? Neither. You know I don't give a shit, I just like objectivity. They would all not be who they are today without one another, end of story.

[Rockindeano]

I read that Rhiannon said "look, Perry has left, and they are doing just fine."

My point, however convoluted, was that isn't the case.

[Rhiannon]

I read that Rhiannon said "look, Perry has left, and they are doing just fine."

My point, however convoluted, was that isn't the case.

And I define "fine" as they're not dead, they're smiling, and they seem to be enjoying themselves. So let 'em have it.
I'm not emotionally invested in their well-being, nor do I care if they power their house from an abusive chinchilla generator system. I just want to be entertained. And I am entertained.

We're on the same page pretty much Dean... you just hate them and I don't.

[bluejeangirl76]

nor do I care if they power their house from an abusive chinchilla generator system.

You know Cain does!!

[Rockindeano]

We're on the same page pretty much Dean... you just hate them and I don't.

I worked all night, but I am not offering that up as an excuse for my reasoning like stevew2 at MIT or anything. However, I re read your comments and I disagree with you when you say one member hasn't done as well away from the other four. Perry has. Street and FTLOSM both did better than any of the shit Journey put out post TBF.

And you're right, I very much hate them, with a fucking passion.

[Rhiannon]

We're on the same page pretty much Dean... you just hate them and I don't.

I worked all night, but I am not offering that up as an excuse for my reasoning like stevew2 at MIT or anything. However, I re read your comments and I disagree with you when you say one member hasn't done as well away from the other four. Perry has. Street and FTLOSM both did better than any of the shit Journey put out post TBF.

And you're right, I very much hate them, with a fucking passion.

To rival what they all five had. There's no way you can compare FTLOSM to Escape, just as there's no way you can compare Bad English to Escape. The were at their peak as one whole. I don't think anyone can argue that. Out of the five apart, yes Perry had the best success... but it can't sniff what he did with Journey.

Go get some rest, biggun!

[madsplash]

Street and FTLOSM both did better than any of the shit Journey put out post TBF.

Absolutely. That's the bottom line.

[brywool]

Street and FTLOSM both did better than any of the shit Journey put out post TBF.

Absolutely. That's the bottom line.

Doesn't mean they were as good. It means they had better distribution and publicity channels and they were also released at a time when radio was more friendly to Journey. Having said that, at the time FTLOSM came out, radio was LESS friendly to ROCK bands and more friendly to GRUNGE bands. That has a lot to do with why it didn't sell big numbers. By the time of Arrival, radio and record companies were fighting for their lives. FTLOSM actually didn't do that great saleswise. I think Arrival is a better album than both of those, yet they're all great albums.

[Jana]

Street and FTLOSM both did better than any of the shit Journey put out post TBF.

Absolutely. That's the bottom line.

Doesn't mean they were as good. It means they had better distribution and publicity channels. FTLOSM actually didn't do that great. I think Arrival is a better album than both of those.

On the whole, absolutely. I'm, actually, really loving Arrival right now.

I love certain songs off of Street Talk and FTLOSM, but I'm really enjoying the whole Arrival CD for the most part.

[Onestepper]

Street and FTLOSM both did better than any of the shit Journey put out post TBF.

Absolutely. That's the bottom line.

Doesn't mean they were as good. It means they had better distribution and publicity channels and they were also released at a time when radio was more friendly to Journey. Having said that, at the time FTLOSM came out, radio was LESS friendly to ROCK bands and more friendly to GRUNGE bands. That has a lot to do with why it didn't sell big numbers. By the time of Arrival, radio and record companies were fighting for their lives. FTLOSM actually didn't do that great saleswise. I think Arrival is a better album than both of those, yet they're all great albums.

There was also no TBF tour, which would have impacted album sales. Kind of an apples to oranges comparison really.

[brywool]

Street and FTLOSM both did better than any of the shit Journey put out post TBF.

Absolutely. That's the bottom line.

Doesn't mean they were as good. It means they had better distribution and publicity channels and they were also released at a time when radio was more friendly to Journey. Having said that, at the time FTLOSM came out, radio was LESS friendly to ROCK bands and more friendly to GRUNGE bands. That has a lot to do with why it didn't sell big numbers. By the time of Arrival, radio and record companies were fighting for their lives. FTLOSM actually didn't do that great saleswise. I think Arrival is a better album than both of those, yet they're all great albums.

There was also no TBF tour, which would have impacted album sales. Kind of an apples to oranges comparison really.

Gotta wonder what that tour would've done for the band.

[whirlwind]

Actually what she said sounds like something you might have said a few years back in our old battles with the Perryloons, before you became a Perryhead yourself.

Very true, except I would say it this way: Actually what she said sounds like something you might have said a few years back in our old battles with the Perryloons, before you realized how wrong you were and how bad the Journey guys are.

Yes it does sound more like me, you would have used more colorful language, LOL. I don't agree with the way they handled a few things but I am still a fan. I usually can't access the forum from work so I'm rarely here and miss the old dust ups. But I'm still on board. Where is JoePa? Where are all the old timer loons? Hope things are going well.

The filth and degradation, the likes of what was allowed and encourged by the goons posting here, made it impossible for many of the loons to bother with this board at the time. I'm sure that many still read the board and since the posters themselves appear to protest abuse toward others, some of the oldies might start showing up.

It's the best place for Journey and Perry news the minute it happens and the personalities of the posters are so diversified that it makes for interesting debates.

[NoMoreTails]

Actually what she said sounds like something you might have said a few years back in our old battles with the Perryloons, before you became a Perryhead yourself.

Very true, except I would say it this way: Actually what she said sounds like something you might have said a few years back in our old battles with the Perryloons, before you realized how wrong you were and how bad the Journey guys are.

Yes it does sound more like me, you would have used more colorful language, LOL. I don't agree with the way they handled a few things but I am still a fan. I usually can't access the forum from work so I'm rarely here and miss the old dust ups. But I'm still on board. Where is JoePa? Where are all the old timer loons? Hope things are going well.

The filth and degradation, the likes of what was allowed and encourged by the goons posting here, made it impossible for many of the loons to bother with this board at the time. I'm sure that many still read the board and since the posters themselves appear to protest abuse toward others, some of the oldies might start showing up.

It's the best place for Journey and Perry news the minute it happens and the personalities of the posters are so diversified that it makes for interesting debates.

The old timers I'm talking about stayed here at least until JSS was ousted...I assumed they left when it was proven that Journey could find someone who could do Perry better than Perry has since 1983.

[NealIsGod]

The old timers I'm talking about stayed here at least until JSS was ousted...I assumed they left when it was proven that Journey could find someone who could do Perry better than Perry has since 1983.

I can hear the squawking getting closer...


Hey NMT, Happy St. Patty's Day.

[NoMoreTails]

The old timers I'm talking about stayed here at least until JSS was ousted...I assumed they left when it was proven that Journey could find someone who could do Perry better than Perry has since 1983.

I can hear the squawking getting closer... ]

Oh, you've heard a preview of Perry's "new" recordings??
You know that pic made my day, that's right up there with Cain's smock wearing look.

[Gordon from Edinburgh]

[

The old timers I'm talking about stayed here at least until JSS was ousted...I assumed they left when it was proven that Journey could find someone who could do Perry better than Perry has since 1983.[/quote]

Bullshit - i like JSS but he did not sing Perry better than Perry. That could be the dumbest comment i have ever seen on this board.

Nor did he have the presence or the charisma - and he would probably be the first to agree with that.

[NoMoreTails]

Bullshit - i like JSS but he did not sing Perry better than Perry. That could be the dumbest comment i have ever seen on this board.

Nor did he have the presence or the charisma - and he would probably be the first to agree with that.

I was referring to Arnel as the one who could do Perry better than Perry has since Frontiers. The loons were pretty much on board with JSS, since he showed "proper respect" to Perry, I believe they left after Jeff was fired.

[NealIsGod]

Nor did he have the presence or the charisma - and he would probably be the first to agree with that.

JSS has presence and charisma like a mofo.

[NealIsGod]

Bullshit - i like JSS but he did not sing Perry better than Perry. That could be the dumbest comment i have ever seen on this board.

Nor did he have the presence or the charisma - and he would probably be the first to agree with that.

I was referring to Arnel as the one who could do Perry better than Perry has since Frontiers. The loons were pretty much on board with JSS, since he showed "proper respect" to Perry, I believe they left after Jeff was fired.

Yeah, the Loons had it in for Augeri.

[brywool]

Nor did he have the presence or the charisma - and he would probably be the first to agree with that.

JSS has presence and charisma like a mofo.

So do many performers. Doesn't mean they were a good fit with Journey.

[brywool]

I was referring to Arnel as the one who could do Perry better than Perry has since Frontiers. The loons were pretty much on board with JSS, since he showed "proper respect" to Perry, I believe they left after Jeff was fired.

I knew what you meant by the comment NMT. As far as vocal Range (high notes)- I have to agree. Arnel can do that better than Perry could after 83. As far as soulful delivery, I give the edge to SP even after 83, but Arnel comes really freakin' close. His renditions of "Faithfully" have buttloads of soul.

[Gordon from Edinburgh]

Nor did he have the presence or the charisma - and he would probably be the first to agree with that.

JSS has presence and charisma like a mofo.

That is not under dispute sir, but as a loon, i genuinely put Perry up there with the greats...not just the "very goods".

[Gordon from Edinburgh]

I was referring to Arnel as the one who could do Perry better than Perry has since Frontiers. The loons were pretty much on board with JSS, since he showed "proper respect" to Perry, I believe they left after Jeff was fired.

I knew what you meant by the comment NMT. As far as vocal Range (high notes)- I have to agree. Arnel can do that better than Perry could after 83. As far as soulful delivery, I give the edge to SP even after 83, but Arnel comes really freakin' close. His renditions of "Faithfully" have buttloads of soul.

All this talk of after 83 really really puzzles me. I think Perry's finest live moment was the live version of Girl Can't Help It (1986??)- great song great performance from everyone and vocals that stopped me in my tracks when i bought Time 3 - i musta hit repeat 7 times before i could stop.
Maybe just me tho - altho i did read somewhere else tonite that someone else really rates this performance. I think Arnel does well, but there is a slight "thinness" to his voice in certain registers.
Its all just what you like tho - me, i would take Perry in any register over 99% of what is on offer anywhere these days.

[Gordon from Edinburgh]

Bullshit - i like JSS but he did not sing Perry better than Perry. That could be the dumbest comment i have ever seen on this board.

Nor did he have the presence or the charisma - and he would probably be the first to agree with that.

I was referring to Arnel as the one who could do Perry better than Perry has since Frontiers. The loons were pretty much on board with JSS, since he showed "proper respect" to Perry, I believe they left after Jeff was fired.

Yeah, the Loons had it in for Augeri.

I think maybe they had it in for him after certain events supposedly took place - i have to be truthful and say i nver liked the albums cos i just cannot get into them, but i do remember being blown away when i first heard Remember Me - so it was certainly never a bias against the man.

[Gideon]

I'm so tempted to jump into the fray. If this argument goes further, I will, but I think Rhiannon handled it succinctly: Perry may have been the focal point of Journey's success, but to say that he was the sole reason for it is completely unsubstantiated. Fuck, if you want to get technical, Jonathan Cain joining Journey yielded more financial success for the band than Perry's (compare Infinity to Escape and see how far it lags).

This, in particular, stood out and it's something I'd like to address:

let's see journey play NO Perry songs at all, and then show me the tour numbers. They would be lucky to draw 500 people a gig.

No offense, Deano, but I think this isn't workable logic. You do recall that Perry was playing more Journey songs when he went on tour than actual Steve Perry songs, right? When Perry tours (lol), let's see him play no Journey songs whatsoever (particularly the ones that belong to Jonathan Cain: "Faithfully" and "Open Arms") and see his numbers.

[Jana]

I was referring to Arnel as the one who could do Perry better than Perry has since Frontiers. The loons were pretty much on board with JSS, since he showed "proper respect" to Perry, I believe they left after Jeff was fired.

I knew what you meant by the comment NMT. As far as vocal Range (high notes)- I have to agree. Arnel can do that better than Perry could after 83. As far as soulful delivery, I give the edge to SP even after 83, but Arnel comes really freakin' close. His renditions of "Faithfully" have buttloads of soul.

All this talk of after 83 really really puzzles me. I think Perry's finest live moment was the live version of Girl Can't Help It (1986??)- great song great performance from everyone and vocals that stopped me in my tracks when i bought Time 3 - i musta hit repeat 7 times before i could stop.
Maybe just me tho - altho i did read somewhere else tonite that someone else really rates this performance. I think Arnel does well, but there is a slight "thinness" to his voice in certain registers.
Its all just what you like tho - me, i would take Perry in any register over 99% of what is on offer anywhere these days.

Funny you should say that. Tonight I'm working on a project on my computer and pulled out some music to get me through the long night, and on comes the live version of Girl Can't Help it. I mean, just really spectacular vocals by Perry.

[Gideon]

It really was.

I also liked his live IBAWY, though it doesn't touch Soto's version, which in turn doesn't compare to Perry's version solo on his '94 tour. Quite possibly my favorite vocal performance live.

[donnaplease]

I'm so tempted to jump into the fray. If this argument goes further, I will, but I think Rhiannon handled it succinctly: Perry may have been the focal point of Journey's success, but to say that he was the sole reason for it is completely unsubstantiated. Fuck, if you want to get technical, Jonathan Cain joining Journey yielded more financial success for the band than Perry's (compare Infinity to Escape and see how far it lags).

This, in particular, stood out and it's something I'd like to address:

let's see journey play NO Perry songs at all, and then show me the tour numbers. They would be lucky to draw 500 people a gig.

No offense, Deano, but I think this isn't workable logic. You do recall that Perry was playing more Journey songs when he went on tour than actual Steve Perry songs, right? When Perry tours (lol), let's see him play no Journey songs whatsoever (particularly the ones that belong to Jonathan Cain: "Faithfully" and "Open Arms") and see his numbers.

This has been a good read... now for my 0.002 cents (effin economy! )

I totally agree that the whole is greater than the individual parts that make it up. HOWEVER, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that when Jon Cain says "we want the legacy sound" that he's talking about none other than SMFP. Neal, Jon and Ross play the same notes on their instruments, Deen (I assume) doesn't stray too far from Smitty's performance on the drums, so what exactly do they need to get 'back to' by firing JSS and hiring Arnel (or Jeremey, or Hugo, or KC)? You guessed it! Someone who's VOICE is similar enough to SP's to be reminiscent of the magic that was created by the group during SP's tenure. Rationalize it all you want, there's just no getting around the fact that Journey of today is nothing more than a tribute to Steve Perry and the greatness that he brought to the group. SP will never be as successful sans Journey, nor will Journey ever get out from under SP's shadow, and will therefore forever be hanging on to his coattails... (pun intended )

Two other observations: 1) Rhi, you've sure come a long way from when you first joined here. Weren't you a moderator at a Steve Perry fansite then?? 2) Dean, I like the loonier version of your personality. Of course, the first night I met you at Ed's house, that's one of the (very few) things I remember you telling me... "I'm a loon too..."

[Rhiannon]

1) Rhi, you've sure come a long way from when you first joined here. Weren't you a moderator at a Steve Perry fansite then??

Yes, I sure was. As for "coming a long way", that kinda happens. I'm changing (my mind) constantly as I grow further into my adult years... nothing wrong at all with that. Just because I'm not polishing a man's ass doesn't make one bit of difference as to my fan-status. Nor does liking Journey now.