RECENT SP mention RE: "new material"

[Peartree12249]

I'm so tempted to jump into the fray. If this argument goes further, I will, but I think Rhiannon handled it succinctly: Perry may have been the focal point of Journey's success, but to say that he was the sole reason for it is completely unsubstantiated. Fuck, if you want to get technical, Jonathan Cain joining Journey yielded more financial success for the band than Perry's (compare Infinity to Escape and see how far it lags).

This, in particular, stood out and it's something I'd like to address:

let's see journey play NO Perry songs at all, and then show me the tour numbers. They would be lucky to draw 500 people a gig.

No offense, Deano, but I think this isn't workable logic. You do recall that Perry was playing more Journey songs when he went on tour than actual Steve Perry songs, right? When Perry tours (lol), let's see him play no Journey songs whatsoever (particularly the ones that belong to Jonathan Cain: "Faithfully" and "Open Arms") and see his numbers.

This has been a good read... now for my 0.002 cents (effin economy! )

I totally agree that the whole is greater than the individual parts that make it up. HOWEVER, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that when Jon Cain says "we want the legacy sound" that he's talking about none other than SMFP. Neal, Jon and Ross play the same notes on their instruments, Deen (I assume) doesn't stray too far from Smitty's performance on the drums, so what exactly do they need to get 'back to' by firing JSS and hiring Arnel (or Jeremey, or Hugo, or KC)? You guessed it! Someone who's VOICE is similar enough to SP's to be reminiscent of the magic that was created by the group during SP's tenure. Rationalize it all you want, there's just no getting around the fact that Journey of today is nothing more than a tribute to Steve Perry and the greatness that he brought to the group. SP will never be as successful sans Journey, nor will Journey ever get out from under SP's shadow, and will therefore forever be hanging on to his coattails... (pun intended )

I think you make an excellent point. The legacy sound is all about SMFP. When fans argue about AP it's whether or not he can out-Perry Perry. Love him, hate him or indifferent, Journey is nothing without him. Steve Perry is hanging around this group like the chains around Jacob Marley's ghost. They will carry him around forever.

[jrnyman28]

I don't entirely agree that the legacy sound is solely Perry's voice. That certainly is a key factor but look at what Journey had been doing since Perry left the band. Arrival certainly was an attempt to still sound like Perry-era excluding a few songs like "Kiss Me Softly", "We Will Meet Again" and "Livin' To Do". Even though some of those songs sound related to some TBF songs they still signal a new direction for the band to follow. Then comes Red13 with a solid change to a rockin' raw direction for the band. Admittedly too raw sounding. Generations stayed the course of a little more rock, a little less 'smooth'. And we can surmise that with JSS the band would definately have stayed with that rockier direction. With Arnel, not only do they return to the Perry-ish vocalizing but also a return to polished AOR melodic rock. The music has also returned to the 'legacy' sound.

[Gideon]

I don't entirely agree that the legacy sound is solely Perry's voice. That certainly is a key factor but look at what Journey had been doing since Perry left the band. Arrival certainly was an attempt to still sound like Perry-era excluding a few songs like "Kiss Me Softly", "We Will Meet Again" and "Livin' To Do". Even though some of those songs sound related to some TBF songs they still signal a new direction for the band to follow. Then comes Red13 with a solid change to a rockin' raw direction for the band. Admittedly too raw sounding. Generations stayed the course of a little more rock, a little less 'smooth'. And we can surmise that with JSS the band would definately have stayed with that rockier direction. With Arnel, not only do they return to the Perry-ish vocalizing but also a return to polished AOR melodic rock. The music has also returned to the 'legacy' sound.

+1.

[annie89509]

I don't entirely agree that the legacy sound is solely Perry's voice. That certainly is a key factor but look at what Journey had been doing since Perry left the band. Arrival certainly was an attempt to still sound like Perry-era excluding a few songs like "Kiss Me Softly", "We Will Meet Again" and "Livin' To Do". Even though some of those songs sound related to some TBF songs they still signal a new direction for the band to follow. Then comes Red13 with a solid change to a rockin' raw direction for the band. Admittedly too raw sounding. Generations stayed the course of a little more rock, a little less 'smooth'. And we can surmise that with JSS the band would definately have stayed with that rockier direction. With Arnel, not only do they return to the Perry-ish vocalizing but also a return to polished AOR melodic rock. The music has also returned to the 'legacy' sound.

.... which is what DP and Peartree were saying, I think. The "legacy sound" is associated with SP.

[donnaplease]

I don't entirely agree that the legacy sound is solely Perry's voice. That certainly is a key factor but look at what Journey had been doing since Perry left the band. Arrival certainly was an attempt to still sound like Perry-era excluding a few songs like "Kiss Me Softly", "We Will Meet Again" and "Livin' To Do". Even though some of those songs sound related to some TBF songs they still signal a new direction for the band to follow. Then comes Red13 with a solid change to a rockin' raw direction for the band. Admittedly too raw sounding. Generations stayed the course of a little more rock, a little less 'smooth'. And we can surmise that with JSS the band would definately have stayed with that rockier direction. With Arnel, not only do they return to the Perry-ish vocalizing but also a return to polished AOR melodic rock. The music has also returned to the 'legacy' sound.

.... which is what DP and Peartree were saying, I think. The "legacy sound" is associated with SP.

Exactly. The songs haven't changed since 1998; the notes remain the same. Only the singer has been different. The LEGACY SOUND is the way the group sounded with SMFP singing, and to "get back to" that sound they have to replicate his voice as closely as they can. I understand them wanting to do that, because his voice was so unique and special, but I'd just like to see them call it what it is. Had Arnel sounded like Axl Rose, do you think he would be fronting Journey right now, despite what a super voice he has? Of course not.

Again, I believe together they possess a special quality that none of them have individually, but if I had to choose, SP would always get my vote.

[perryfaithful]

but if I had to choose, SP would always get my vote.

...and mine!

[SP Fan in Oregon]

but if I had to choose, SP would always get my vote.

...and mine!

Ditto



The Common Loon

[jrnyman28]

I don't entirely agree that the legacy sound is solely Perry's voice. That certainly is a key factor but look at what Journey had been doing since Perry left the band. Arrival certainly was an attempt to still sound like Perry-era excluding a few songs like "Kiss Me Softly", "We Will Meet Again" and "Livin' To Do". Even though some of those songs sound related to some TBF songs they still signal a new direction for the band to follow. Then comes Red13 with a solid change to a rockin' raw direction for the band. Admittedly too raw sounding. Generations stayed the course of a little more rock, a little less 'smooth'. And we can surmise that with JSS the band would definately have stayed with that rockier direction. With Arnel, not only do they return to the Perry-ish vocalizing but also a return to polished AOR melodic rock. The music has also returned to the 'legacy' sound.

.... which is what DP and Peartree were saying, I think. The "legacy sound" is associated with SP.

Exactly. The songs haven't changed since 1998; the notes remain the same. Only the singer has been different. The LEGACY SOUND is the way the group sounded with SMFP singing, and to "get back to" that sound they have to replicate his voice as closely as they can. I understand them wanting to do that, because his voice was so unique and special, but I'd just like to see them call it what it is. Had Arnel sounded like Axl Rose, do you think he would be fronting Journey right now, despite what a super voice he has? Of course not.

Again, I believe together they possess a special quality that none of them have individually, but if I had to choose, SP would always get my vote.

Annie, I know what DP was referring to. But if you read my entire post you will see that I am stating that the music is ALSO returning to the legacy sound. It is NOT just about the Perry vocals. DP, the songs did change since 1998. There has been a shift in direction that I imagine would have been complete with the addition of JSS. In fact, to argue your point further, the addition of Steve Augeri was calculated the same as Arnel. Both were chosen because of their ability to sound similar to Perry. Moreso in Arnel's case. So essentially the vocals did not change (except with the truncated stint with JSS) but the music did.

[Don]

To me, everything pre-Captured had its own sound. Escape, Frontiers, ROR, and TBF all sounded different to me.
When they say legacy sound I would have to think they are mostly going for the Frontiers era sound, with a little ROR thrown in.

[Granny]

Ain't Nothin' Like The Real Thing Baby

You need to go to a Frontiers show. As close to the real thing as you can possibly get.

So true, NIGGY...

and Hi, how are u? Cindy says Hi too..

[stevew2]

1) Rhi, you've sure come a long way from when you first joined here. Weren't you a moderator at a Steve Perry fansite then??

Yes, I sure was. As for "coming a long way", that kinda happens. I'm changing (my mind) constantly as I grow further into my adult years... nothing wrong at all with that. Just because I'm not polishing a man's ass doesn't make one bit of difference as to my fan-status. Nor does liking Journey now.

How do you polish a mans ass?/ Friga needs to know

[Rhiannon]

How do you polish a mans ass?/ Friga needs to know

Very carefully, I guess..?

[stevew2]

How do you polish a mans ass?/ Friga needs to know

Very carefully, I guess..?

I guess you would use Turtle wax, or lemon pledge

[donnaplease]

I don't entirely agree that the legacy sound is solely Perry's voice. That certainly is a key factor but look at what Journey had been doing since Perry left the band. Arrival certainly was an attempt to still sound like Perry-era excluding a few songs like "Kiss Me Softly", "We Will Meet Again" and "Livin' To Do". Even though some of those songs sound related to some TBF songs they still signal a new direction for the band to follow. Then comes Red13 with a solid change to a rockin' raw direction for the band. Admittedly too raw sounding. Generations stayed the course of a little more rock, a little less 'smooth'. And we can surmise that with JSS the band would definately have stayed with that rockier direction. With Arnel, not only do they return to the Perry-ish vocalizing but also a return to polished AOR melodic rock. The music has also returned to the 'legacy' sound.

.... which is what DP and Peartree were saying, I think. The "legacy sound" is associated with SP.

Exactly. The songs haven't changed since 1998; the notes remain the same. Only the singer has been different. The LEGACY SOUND is the way the group sounded with SMFP singing, and to "get back to" that sound they have to replicate his voice as closely as they can. I understand them wanting to do that, because his voice was so unique and special, but I'd just like to see them call it what it is. Had Arnel sounded like Axl Rose, do you think he would be fronting Journey right now, despite what a super voice he has? Of course not.

Again, I believe together they possess a special quality that none of them have individually, but if I had to choose, SP would always get my vote.

Annie, I know what DP was referring to. But if you read my entire post you will see that I am stating that the music is ALSO returning to the legacy sound. It is NOT just about the Perry vocals. DP, the songs did change since 1998. There has been a shift in direction that I imagine would have been complete with the addition of JSS. In fact, to argue your point further, the addition of Steve Augeri was calculated the same as Arnel. Both were chosen because of their ability to sound similar to Perry. Moreso in Arnel's case. So essentially the vocals did not change (except with the truncated stint with JSS) but the music did.

Explain how the songs changed. I'm talking about the songs that are currently being sung on each and every Journey tour...the dirty dozen et al. Maybe you're talking about something else, IDK.

[annie89509]

True, it took the whole group to produce those songs, but only 1 voice that made it classics. I think most of us were eager to see where JSS takes Journey. In their own words, they were ready for “a new direction.”

Poof … 6 months later, we’re back to a SP-sounding singer … re-recording those classics … note for note. Jeezus, if you’re going to re-do the hits, change it up a little. Did Wal-Mart insist they make it sound like the original recording, too?

[Deacon]

Poof … 6 months later, we’re back to a SP-sounding singer … re-recording those classics … note for note. Jeezus, if you’re going to re-do the hits, change it up a little. Did Wal-Mart insist they make it sound like the original recording, too?

I don't see where you're coming from.

Not only did Neal re-do most of the solos within those songs, they clarified the music, balanced the production of the instruments' music, and even added in instrumentals where they were not before.

[annie89509]

Poof … 6 months later, we’re back to a SP-sounding singer … re-recording those classics … note for note. Jeezus, if you’re going to re-do the hits, change it up a little. Did Wal-Mart insist they make it sound like the original recording, too?

I don't see where you're coming from.

Not only did Neal re-do most of the solos within those songs, they clarified the music, balanced the production of the instruments' music, and even added in instrumentals where they were not before.

I'm talking about Rev D2 (sounds just like the original recordings to me ... except the ending to DSB where they duplicated how they played the song live ... and even that was originated by SP).

Are you talking about all the extra stuff they do with the songs in the live shows now?

[Deacon]

Poof … 6 months later, we’re back to a SP-sounding singer … re-recording those classics … note for note. Jeezus, if you’re going to re-do the hits, change it up a little. Did Wal-Mart insist they make it sound like the original recording, too?

I don't see where you're coming from.

Not only did Neal re-do most of the solos within those songs, they clarified the music, balanced the production of the instruments' music, and even added in instrumentals where they were not before.

I'm talking about Rev D2 (sounds just like the original recordings to me ... except the ending to DSB where they duplicated how they played the song live ... and even that was originated by SP).

Are you talking about all the extra stuff they do with the songs in the live shows now?

No, I'm discussing all of the additions and recreations of D2.

Case-in-point, three songs that were recreated, Faith in the Heartland, Wheel in the Sky, and Be Good to Yourself. Faith in the Heartland has noticeable keyboards/piano now, Wheel in the Sky has its acoustics eliminated, and Be Good To Yourself has a totally new ending solo. They're not the original recordings.

[annie89509]

Poof … 6 months later, we’re back to a SP-sounding singer … re-recording those classics … note for note. Jeezus, if you’re going to re-do the hits, change it up a little. Did Wal-Mart insist they make it sound like the original recording, too?

I don't see where you're coming from.

Not only did Neal re-do most of the solos within those songs, they clarified the music, balanced the production of the instruments' music, and even added in instrumentals where they were not before.

I'm talking about Rev D2 (sounds just like the original recordings to me ... except the ending to DSB where they duplicated how they played the song live ... and even that was originated by SP).

Are you talking about all the extra stuff they do with the songs in the live shows now?

No, I'm discussing all of the additions and recreations of D2

Case-in-point, three songs that were recreated, Faith in the Heartland, Wheel in the Sky, and Be Good to Yourself. Faith in the Heartland has noticeable keyboards/piano now, Wheel in the Sky has its acoustics eliminated, and Be Good To Yourself has a totally new ending solo. They're not the original recordings.

I don't care about FITH ... it's not in D2 (re-recording of the hits). WITS and BGTY are different? Okay, if you say so, that's 2 out of 11.

[Deacon]

I don't care about FITH ... it's not in D2 (re-recording of the hits). WITS and BGTY are different? Okay, if you say so, that's 2 out of 11.

If you truly want me to go through the entirety of the disc, I can.

[annie89509]

I don't care about FITH ... it's not in D2 (re-recording of the hits). WITS and BGTY are different? Okay, if you say so, that's 2 out of 11.

If you truly want me to go through the entirety of the disc, I can.

Yes ... please educate me.

[Gideon]

Actually, there are alterations made to several of them.

"Only the Young" has a slightly different tempo and use of guitar; the rhythm parts are all electric now. The solo is also slightly different.
"Don't Stop Believin'" is longer, includes a longer riff session before the lyric "working hard...", a much longer chorus and improvements to the synthesizers.
"Wheel in the Sky" has a different ending and an accoustic guitar in accordance with the electric guitar.
"Faithfully" has a longer "whoa oh" session and solo at the end than the original.
"Any Way You Want It" is slightly slower with slight modifications to the guitar solos.
"Who's Cryin' Now"... er... don't know. Only listened to Neal's solo, which sounds similar, but I think the very end of it is different.
"Lights"... er... I don't know. Probably none.
"Separate Ways" has a slight modification to the jam session after Neal's solo, Arnel tackles the scream differently, and the guitar is much louder in the mix.
"Open Arms" is much different and a major improvement for me. Arnel sings the song with much more power rather than the theatric countertenor of the original.
"Be Good To Yourself" has a completely different guitar solo. Much improved.
"Stone In Love" has altered the solos differently than the original, especially the end as it fades out.

Nothing particularly major, but it's not note-for-note the same.

[Deacon]

Actually, there are alterations made to several of them.

"Only the Young" has a slightly different tempo and use of guitar; the rhythm parts are all electric now. The solo is also slightly different.
"Don't Stop Believin'" is longer, includes a longer riff session before the lyric "working hard...", a much longer chorus and improvements to the synthesizers.
"Wheel in the Sky" has a different ending and an accoustic guitar in accordance with the electric guitar.
"Faithfully" has a longer "whoa oh" session and solo at the end than the original.
"Any Way You Want It" is slightly slower with slight modifications to the guitar solos.
"Who's Cryin' Now"... er... don't know. Only listened to Neal's solo, which sounds similar, but I think the very end of it is different.
"Lights"... er... I don't know. Probably none.
"Separate Ways" has a slight modification to the jam session after Neal's solo, Arnel tackles the scream differently, and the guitar is much louder in the mix.
"Open Arms" is much different and a major improvement for me. Arnel sings the song with much more power rather than the theatric countertenor of the original.
"Be Good To Yourself" has a completely different guitar solo. Much improved.
"Stone In Love" has altered the solos differently than the original, especially the end as it fades out.

Nothing particularly major, but it's not note-for-note the same.

There you go.

[annie89509]

Actually, there are alterations made to several of them.

"Only the Young" has a slightly different tempo and use of guitar; the rhythm parts are all electric now. The solo is also slightly different.
"Don't Stop Believin'" is longer, includes a longer riff session before the lyric "working hard...", a much longer chorus and improvements to the synthesizers.
"Wheel in the Sky" has a different ending and an accoustic guitar in accordance with the electric guitar.
"Faithfully" has a longer "whoa oh" session and solo at the end than the original.
"Any Way You Want It" is slightly slower with slight modifications to the guitar solos.
"Who's Cryin' Now"... er... don't know. Only listened to Neal's solo, which sounds similar, but I think the very end of it is different.
"Lights"... er... I don't know. Probably none.
"Separate Ways" has a slight modification to the jam session after Neal's solo, Arnel tackles the scream differently, and the guitar is much louder in the mix.
"Open Arms" is much different and a major improvement for me. Arnel sings the song with much more power rather than the theatric countertenor of the original.
"Be Good To Yourself" has a completely different guitar solo. Much improved.
"Stone In Love" has altered the solos differently than the original, especially the end as it fades out.

Nothing particularly major, but it's not note-for-note the same.

There you go.

Okay, will go listen for the differences now. I remember only liking Arnel's singing in 3 of the hits (OTY, BGTY, Lights). The others ... I think his accent showed through with a wrong enunciation on a certain word/note, which completely ruined the songs for me. Examples: the "Noooo" in SW and "Woooaaah" in DSB and SIL was butchered. He was great in the Manila concert, though. No notable accent detected there; he was on fire that day -- his best yet with Journey.

[jrnyman28]

I don't entirely agree that the legacy sound is solely Perry's voice. That certainly is a key factor but look at what Journey had been doing since Perry left the band. Arrival certainly was an attempt to still sound like Perry-era excluding a few songs like "Kiss Me Softly", "We Will Meet Again" and "Livin' To Do". Even though some of those songs sound related to some TBF songs they still signal a new direction for the band to follow. Then comes Red13 with a solid change to a rockin' raw direction for the band. Admittedly too raw sounding. Generations stayed the course of a little more rock, a little less 'smooth'. And we can surmise that with JSS the band would definately have stayed with that rockier direction. With Arnel, not only do they return to the Perry-ish vocalizing but also a return to polished AOR melodic rock. The music has also returned to the 'legacy' sound.

.... which is what DP and Peartree were saying, I think. The "legacy sound" is associated with SP.

Exactly. The songs haven't changed since 1998; the notes remain the same. Only the singer has been different. The LEGACY SOUND is the way the group sounded with SMFP singing, and to "get back to" that sound they have to replicate his voice as closely as they can. I understand them wanting to do that, because his voice was so unique and special, but I'd just like to see them call it what it is. Had Arnel sounded like Axl Rose, do you think he would be fronting Journey right now, despite what a super voice he has? Of course not.

Again, I believe together they possess a special quality that none of them have individually, but if I had to choose, SP would always get my vote.

Annie, I know what DP was referring to. But if you read my entire post you will see that I am stating that the music is ALSO returning to the legacy sound. It is NOT just about the Perry vocals. DP, the songs did change since 1998. There has been a shift in direction that I imagine would have been complete with the addition of JSS. In fact, to argue your point further, the addition of Steve Augeri was calculated the same as Arnel. Both were chosen because of their ability to sound similar to Perry. Moreso in Arnel's case. So essentially the vocals did not change (except with the truncated stint with JSS) but the music did.

Explain how the songs changed. I'm talking about the songs that are currently being sung on each and every Journey tour...the dirty dozen et al. Maybe you're talking about something else, IDK.

Donnaplease, I bolded the comments in my original post that explain what I am talking about.