Who Fractured the Stone?

[Suzanne]

what a fucking stupid thread...

+1 In the grand scheme of things what possible difference does it make?

+2 This again?? Stuff happens for a reason and it's done now.

[Liquid_Drummer]

I love Perry, and while he didn't fracture it, he caused the other guys to do it. We can speculate from here to the end of the earth why he didn't tour TBF. My opinion is that he knew he couldn't tour that catalog anymore and used his hip as an excuse. I'm probably wrong, but that's what I think.

I think you're right, especially if the TBF vocal sessions were really as tedious and painstaking as has been reported...

What was reported about these sessions ? I have not heard much about that.

[madsplash]

I find it interesting that so many speak of Steve Perry's responsibilities to everyone else, as if for some reason everyone else's wellbeing should take greater precedence to him than his own. He had already made what I consider to be a major sacrifice once for the sake of the band when he came back for ROR - he didn't want to make that album because his mother was dying and he wanted to stay with her, but he came through for Journey and made it anyway. I can well assure you that as much as I like my boss I don't owe him my life, and if one of my parents were close to dying, I would spend every waking moment I could with them, not spend more time at work.

Ari gave an insightful and knowledgeable argument for SP hesitating over surgery and the fact that people can read of the risks and what he faced and still insist he was selfish to wait is incredible. How many of you live your life for your company and coworkers and would risk permanent pain and confinement to a wheelchair for the rest of your days by rushing into surgery before you try every alternative? Or demand that of a coworker? Unbelievable. Even once you decide to have surgery, you still need time to research your options, make an informed decision, and find a surgeon that you trust with your life. That doesn't happen overnight and a person has to do what they need to do to get through it. To say that it was just a routine procedure is unreasonable and untrue. It was not routine at the time and even now there are major risks. Even a minor surgery carries the risk of complications or death. I had a minor surgery where the risk of a particular complication was less than 1% - and I got it. Seven surgeries later, I'm hoping technology will advance within the next few years to fix the problem so I can see properly. I take nothing as routine and nothing for granted.

As far as obligations go, the other members of Journey are millionaires many times over. If Gregg Rolie could quit because he had more money than he would ever need in 1980, the rest of the band should never have had to work another day in their lives after Frontiers. If they are in financial straits due to poor personal or financial decisions, that is their responsibility and their problem. It isn't up to Steve Perry to manage their money or bail them out. They took a $4.5M advance on TBF, which was delivered, but only $1M was against a tour according to HH. I'm curious to know which individual in management or the band suggested he could suffer through a tour and sit on a stool while performing - that certainly highlights for me the degree of concern for his wellbeing.

SP did finally concede that he needed surgery and assured the band he was going to have it - he just couldn't give a timeline because he needed to research every option, and as Ari noted, there were many and constantly changing. What kind of friends would give you an ultimatum when it is literally your life at stake? I understand that the band was frustrated and doubtful that SP would tour, but they had a friend who was ill and suffering and instead of standing by him, they auditioned replacements behind his back. Not one of their finer moments.

Best post I've read. Excellent and to the point. What kind of friends, indeed? As I said before, they owe him several million times over.

Yea, we all need friends like that.

[bluejeangirl76]

what a fucking stupid thread...

+1 In the grand scheme of things what possible difference does it make?

+2 This again?? Stuff happens for a reason and it's done now.

+3. Not ONE of us were there, or involved in ANY way. Only those involved know what exactly went down and who did what. In probably over 90% of all cases, it takes two sides to screw up a relationship, be it a friendship, marriage/partnership, business relationship, etc. You do have the random occasion where one person gets jacked over, but in most cases, no, not so... and all you walking books of Steve Perry facts can probably all name the dates and souces where he's been quoted saying he wasn't any kind of "day at the beach" or whatever, and that all parties involved made poor choices. If he can admit that, then why can't the rest of you accept it. For the record, I'm defending neither side because it doesn't concern me and I wasn't there.

Its over and done with, and this argument is pointless since, again, none of you were there.

[Liquid_Drummer]

IMHO, the stone being cracked is of no matter. Steve's voice is the only thing that cracked and the term toast IMO was directly referring to his voice more than his burnout factor. All of the talking in between songs on the Ftlosm tour for rest, the hyper speed for early material on ROR tour, his speaking voice seemed very airy and raspy on the Behind the bullshit special and some voice pros have even noted this and commented on it. When Steve laughs you can hear the damage because when you laugh your voice naturally goes up in pitch. When Steve laughs it sounds like there is nuts and bolts rattling around in there. They guy got older and from thousands of shows his voice was damaged or just changed. I say damage/attrition because once Escape hit and they were on top the demand for shows was incredible and he met those demands but at a cost. Once that tour was over the rasp appeared and he gained weight (steroids??).

Yes I am sure he can still sing however his upper tenor has been absent for some time and I would bet that Steve, who is now at 60 is a low/mid baritone that might be able to reach for tenor for short periods. For Steve to hit the high notes on the FTLOSM tour he had to scream and I have heard a couple of shows that were just so dreadful that I felt bad for him. Steve CAN NOT perform the old catalog to his satisfaction or ours or he would be. If you want to hear Anyway you want it two whole steps or more tuned down then keep wishing for a Perry return. As for me, I will be listening to the cd. As many shows as Steve did it is NO surprise that his voice ended up like it is/was.

[madsplash]

IMHO, the stone being cracked is of no matter. Steve's voice is the only thing that cracked and the term toast IMO was directly referring to his voice more than his burnout factor. All of the talking in between songs on the Ftlosm tour for rest, the hyper speed for early material on ROR tour, his speaking voice seemed very airy and raspy on the Behind the bullshit special and some voice pros have even noted this and commented on it. When Steve laughs you can hear the damage because when you laugh your voice naturally goes up in pitch. When Steve laughs it sounds like there is nuts and bolts rattling around in there. They guy got older and from thousands of shows his voice was damaged or just changed. I say damage/attrition because once Escape hit and they were on top the demand for shows was incredible and he met those demands but at a cost. Once that tour was over the rasp appeared and he gained weight (steroids??).

Yes I am sure he can still sing however his upper tenor has been absent for some time and I would bet that Steve, who is now at 60 is a low/mid baritone that might be able to reach for tenor for short periods. For Steve to hit the high notes on the FTLOSM tour he had to scream and I have heard a couple of shows that were just so dreadful that I felt bad for him. Steve CAN NOT perform the old catalog to his satisfaction or ours or he would be. If you want to hear Anyway you want it two whole steps or more tuned down then keep wishing for a Perry return. As for me, I will be listening to the cd. As many shows as Steve did it is NO surprise that his voice ended up like it is/was.

He can still do the back catalog well enough for his fans. He won't have to do all of it, just the later stuff from Frontiers on, and he WILL be able to. And evev if he couldn't, anything new he puts out, in whatever key, will be more than enough for his fans. I'd much rather hear him sing in his TBF voice on, than not hear him sing at all.

I was at the FTLOSM tour in Pittsburgh, and while some songs had been dropped(who the hell cares?), the man was most defineitely NOT sceaming. He sung his ass of at that show, and on the whole tour until he got bronchitis/pneumonia.

I'm really looking forward to what his voice sounds like now with the information that we've all heard, true or untrue.
If it's improved from TBF, cool. If it's the same or even mellower, that'll be awesome too. Either way, he'll still be one of the best singers on the planet, no matter what range he has. I could care less if he can sing Homeade Love in the original key or not. It's not about that. It's about him creating and sharing it with us again.

[maverick218]

This is going to catch a lot of hell and I haven't the time to engage in a competent debate at the moment, but I'll respond:

Perry.

Perry fractured the stone first in '86, shunting Valory and Smith off to the side for studio musicians and a drum machine because "he just had to have" this new musical direction (forgetting the fact that they were essentially yes-man and he, Cain, and Neal were the ones responsible for the actual movement and direction of the music). And Perry precipitated the fracture of the stone a second time in 1996. The fact that he would later get the reconstructive surgery is proof that he knew from the bottom of his heart that Cain and Neal were correct; he just took his jolly time waiting to have it done. Why would he if he knew it was inevitable? Not to mention the fact that they gave him over a year to decide and that he fucked up a potentially lucrative deal in Chalfant joining the band.

I'm sure you could ration out the blame in all parties, but history shows that Perry shoulders most of it.

I agree- Perry. The ROR debacle, the 10 year hiatus, the "reunion", postponing surgery,etc.

[madsplash]

This is going to catch a lot of hell and I haven't the time to engage in a competent debate at the moment, but I'll respond:

Perry.

Perry fractured the stone first in '86, shunting Valory and Smith off to the side for studio musicians and a drum machine because "he just had to have" this new musical direction (forgetting the fact that they were essentially yes-man and he, Cain, and Neal were the ones responsible for the actual movement and direction of the music). And Perry precipitated the fracture of the stone a second time in 1996. The fact that he would later get the reconstructive surgery is proof that he knew from the bottom of his heart that Cain and Neal were correct; he just took his jolly time waiting to have it done. Why would he if he knew it was inevitable? Not to mention the fact that they gave him over a year to decide and that he fucked up a potentially lucrative deal in Chalfant joining the band.

I'm sure you could ration out the blame in all parties, but history shows that Perry shoulders most of it.

I agree- Perry. The ROR debacle, the 10 year hiatus, the "reunion", postponing surgery,etc.

Let's see. ROR was multi-platinum. The hiatus was his personal need for it. The reunion was a platinum success and would have been even bigger if he hadn't hurt his hip, and postponing surgery is his own personal business.

You need better reasons.

[bluejeangirl76]

Let's see. ROR was multi-platinum. The hiatus was his personal need for it. The reunion was a platinum success and would have been even bigger if he hadn't hurt his hip, and postponing surgery is his own personal business.

Well... at least SP didn't have to re-record 11 old songs to cheat his way to platinum, regardless of how he got along (or didn't) with his bandmates. That's a point in his favor.

[madsplash]

Let's see. ROR was multi-platinum. The hiatus was his personal need for it. The reunion was a platinum success and would have been even bigger if he hadn't hurt his hip, and postponing surgery is his own personal business.

Well... at least SP didn't have to re-record 11 old songs to cheat his way to platinum, regardless of how he got along (or didn't) with his bandmates. That's a point in his favor.

Good point!

[Don]

IMHO, the stone being cracked is of no matter. Steve's voice is the only thing that cracked and the term toast IMO was directly referring to his voice more than his burnout factor. All of the talking in between songs on the Ftlosm tour for rest, the hyper speed for early material on ROR tour, his speaking voice seemed very airy and raspy on the Behind the bullshit special and some voice pros have even noted this and commented on it. When Steve laughs you can hear the damage because when you laugh your voice naturally goes up in pitch. When Steve laughs it sounds like there is nuts and bolts rattling around in there. They guy got older and from thousands of shows his voice was damaged or just changed. I say damage/attrition because once Escape hit and they were on top the demand for shows was incredible and he met those demands but at a cost. Once that tour was over the rasp appeared and he gained weight (steroids??).

Yes I am sure he can still sing however his upper tenor has been absent for some time and I would bet that Steve, who is now at 60 is a low/mid baritone that might be able to reach for tenor for short periods. For Steve to hit the high notes on the FTLOSM tour he had to scream and I have heard a couple of shows that were just so dreadful that I felt bad for him. Steve CAN NOT perform the old catalog to his satisfaction or ours or he would be. If you want to hear Anyway you want it two whole steps or more tuned down then keep wishing for a Perry return. As for me, I will be listening to the cd. As many shows as Steve did it is NO surprise that his voice ended up like it is/was.

The guy did close to 600 shows in a 8 year run. He saved his money and is now retired. If I want to hear Classic Journey or any of the dirty dozen, I'll put on a CD, DVD or even the radio. Very simple.

[Onestepper]

IMHO, the stone being cracked is of no matter. Steve's voice is the only thing that cracked and the term toast IMO was directly referring to his voice more than his burnout factor. All of the talking in between songs on the Ftlosm tour for rest, the hyper speed for early material on ROR tour, his speaking voice seemed very airy and raspy on the Behind the bullshit special and some voice pros have even noted this and commented on it. When Steve laughs you can hear the damage because when you laugh your voice naturally goes up in pitch. When Steve laughs it sounds like there is nuts and bolts rattling around in there. They guy got older and from thousands of shows his voice was damaged or just changed. I say damage/attrition because once Escape hit and they were on top the demand for shows was incredible and he met those demands but at a cost. Once that tour was over the rasp appeared and he gained weight (steroids??).

Yes I am sure he can still sing however his upper tenor has been absent for some time and I would bet that Steve, who is now at 60 is a low/mid baritone that might be able to reach for tenor for short periods. For Steve to hit the high notes on the FTLOSM tour he had to scream and I have heard a couple of shows that were just so dreadful that I felt bad for him. Steve CAN NOT perform the old catalog to his satisfaction or ours or he would be. If you want to hear Anyway you want it two whole steps or more tuned down then keep wishing for a Perry return. As for me, I will be listening to the cd. As many shows as Steve did it is NO surprise that his voice ended up like it is/was.

The guy did close to 600 shows in a 8 year run. He saved his money and is now retired. If I want to hear Classic Journey or any of the dirty dozen, I'll put on a CD, DVD or even the radio. Very simple.

This is it for me. I've long since given up on expecting a 60+ year old man to duplicate what he sounded like 20+ years ago. If I want that sound, I have plenty of material at my fingertips to hear it. As well as memories of seeing him/them 10+ times live. I'd love to hear Perry today, but ONLY if it's original material, sung in a tune that naturally works for his voice right now. Not some computer generated shit that someone thinks they have to produce to sell a record or two.

[TRAGChick]

IMHO, the stone being cracked is of no matter. Steve's voice is the only thing that cracked and the term toast IMO was directly referring to his voice more than his burnout factor. All of the talking in between songs on the Ftlosm tour for rest, the hyper speed for early material on ROR tour, his speaking voice seemed very airy and raspy on the Behind the bullshit special and some voice pros have even noted this and commented on it. When Steve laughs you can hear the damage because when you laugh your voice naturally goes up in pitch. When Steve laughs it sounds like there is nuts and bolts rattling around in there. They guy got older and from thousands of shows his voice was damaged or just changed. I say damage/attrition because once Escape hit and they were on top the demand for shows was incredible and he met those demands but at a cost. Once that tour was over the rasp appeared and he gained weight (steroids??).

Yes I am sure he can still sing however his upper tenor has been absent for some time and I would bet that Steve, who is now at 60 is a low/mid baritone that might be able to reach for tenor for short periods. For Steve to hit the high notes on the FTLOSM tour he had to scream and I have heard a couple of shows that were just so dreadful that I felt bad for him. Steve CAN NOT perform the old catalog to his satisfaction or ours or he would be. If you want to hear Anyway you want it two whole steps or more tuned down then keep wishing for a Perry return. As for me, I will be listening to the cd. As many shows as Steve did it is NO surprise that his voice ended up like it is/was.

The guy did close to 600 shows in a 8 year run. He saved his money and is now retired. If I want to hear Classic Journey or any of the dirty dozen, I'll put on a CD, DVD or even the radio. Very simple.

This is it for me. I've long since given up on expecting a 60+ year old man to duplicate what he sounded like 20+ years ago. If I want that sound, I have plenty of material at my fingertips to hear it. As well as memories of seeing him/them 10+ times live.

I'd love to hear Perry today, but ONLY if it's original material, sung in a tune that naturally works for his voice right now. Not some computer generated shit that someone thinks they have to produce to sell a record or two.

+1....what you said!! Excellent Post.

[Abitaman]

This is going to catch a lot of hell and I haven't the time to engage in a competent debate at the moment, but I'll respond:

Perry.

Perry fractured the stone first in '86, shunting Valory and Smith off to the side for studio musicians and a drum machine because "he just had to have" this new musical direction (forgetting the fact that they were essentially yes-man and he, Cain, and Neal were the ones responsible for the actual movement and direction of the music). And Perry precipitated the fracture of the stone a second time in 1996. The fact that he would later get the reconstructive surgery is proof that he knew from the bottom of his heart that Cain and Neal were correct; he just took his jolly time waiting to have it done. Why would he if he knew it was inevitable? Not to mention the fact that they gave him over a year to decide and that he fucked up a potentially lucrative deal in Chalfant joining the band.

I'm sure you could ration out the blame in all parties, but history shows that Perry shoulders most of it.

Agree 96%

[Tomulator]

I love Perry, and while he didn't fracture it, he caused the other guys to do it. We can speculate from here to the end of the earth why he didn't tour TBF. My opinion is that he knew he couldn't tour that catalog anymore and used his hip as an excuse. I'm probably wrong, but that's what I think.

No...sadly...you are probably DEAD ON with that assessment.

[bluejeangirl76]

The guy did close to 600 shows in a 8 year run. He saved his money and is now retired. If I want to hear Classic Journey or any of the dirty dozen, I'll put on a CD, DVD or even the radio. Very simple.

+1

[madsplash]

I love Perry, and while he didn't fracture it, he caused the other guys to do it. We can speculate from here to the end of the earth why he didn't tour TBF. My opinion is that he knew he couldn't tour that catalog anymore and used his hip as an excuse. I'm probably wrong, but that's what I think.

So he went so far with his "excuse", as to have major surgery to keep the lie going?
And he had just toured that catalog 2 years ago excellently until he got bronchitis. Why would he think he wouldn't be able to do it again? Two years after TBF he did I Stand Alone, and his voice was as good or better than FTLOSM.

The excuse thing is funny to me. He needed an excuse and just happened to get lucky enough to have needed major reconstructive surgery. Lucky guy!

[G.I.Jim]

Okay...I've kept this a secret for long enough now.....I fractured the stone! Perry called me up when the band was rehersing for the TBF tour, and said the only way he was going to continue on with the band was if I replaced Cain. He just couldn't continue on with Friga's crying at the drop of a dime any more! I had a lot on my plate at the time, and told him I'd need to think about it. Smith heard this and went into a freaking outrage and shaved his head! He said if Jim's not in...I'm out! I'd never seen him get like that before.

So anyway, I guess I should have just signed on for the tour. Hindsight is 20/20. They release the album with Smith's new hairstyle on the back of the album cover, and decided to go on without all three of us. It's all my fault!

[stevew2]

Okay...I've kept this a secret for long enough now.....I fractured the stone! Perry called me up when the band was rehersing for the TBF tour, and said the only way he was going to continue on with the band was if I replaced Cain. He just couldn't continue on with Friga's crying at the drop of a dime any more! I had a lot on my plate at the time, and told him I'd need to think about it. Smith heard this and went into a freaking outrage and shaved his head! He said if Jim's not in...I'm out! I'd never seen him get like that before.

So anyway, I guess I should have just signed on for the tour. Hindsight is 20/20. They release the album with Smith's new hairstyle on the back of the album cover, and decided to go on without all three of us. It's all my fault!

Who is Cain? You should have tookin the reigns from the girl. I can see you now, whippin the band into shape,makin Neal and Ross doing pushups at 6:00 am,Deen doing jumpin jacks,telling Arnel "I cant hear you !!!}

[G.I.Jim]

Okay...I've kept this a secret for long enough now.....I fractured the stone! Perry called me up when the band was rehersing for the TBF tour, and said the only way he was going to continue on with the band was if I replaced Cain. He just couldn't continue on with Friga's crying at the drop of a dime any more! I had a lot on my plate at the time, and told him I'd need to think about it. Smith heard this and went into a freaking outrage and shaved his head! He said if Jim's not in...I'm out! I'd never seen him get like that before.

So anyway, I guess I should have just signed on for the tour. Hindsight is 20/20. They release the album with Smith's new hairstyle on the back of the album cover, and decided to go on without all three of us. It's all my fault!

Who is Cain? You should have tookin the reigns from the girl. I can see you now, whippin the band into shape,makin Neal and Ross doing pushups at 6:00 am,Deen doing jumpin jacks,telling Arnel "I cant hear you !!!}

I don't even get up that early anymore! My Rambo days have long passed. Now a few years ago...that's a different story. I could keep up with the best of them!

[perryfaithful]

The guy did close to 600 shows in a 8 year run. He saved his money and is now retired. If I want to hear Classic Journey or any of the dirty dozen, I'll put on a CD, DVD or even the radio. Very simple.

That is where I am as well! I gave Augeri a chance, was disappointed. Loved Soto but not for journey reasons. Don't fool with the real deal, keepin' it pure. Trial by Fire is the end of my Journey and thank God so many options are there for me to enjoy the way it was, the way it should always be.

[Eric]

As we all know by now, the stone IS fractured. The question is: Who dunnit? Allowing for the fact that none of us really have the full story of what went on behind closed doors with Journey, who, in your opinion "Fractured the Stone"? Was it Perry when he went out on the FTLOSM tour & performed Journey songs without the rest of the band? Was it the band when they decided they could wait no longer for Perry to deal with his medical issues? Had the two parties simply reached an impasse where Perry, for his own personal reasons, could not move forward, and the band, for business purposes, simply could no longer stand still?

Simply put.....Neal and the rest of the James Gang.....No reason not to wait for Perry to make a decision as to whether he will have surgery or not. No excuse. 2 years tops and they would have the world by the balls again. Sad.....really.

But they waited 10 years for his other decision? And, 13 years later he still hasn't toured or recorded?

[Jana]

As we all know by now, the stone IS fractured. The question is: Who dunnit? Allowing for the fact that none of us really have the full story of what went on behind closed doors with Journey, who, in your opinion "Fractured the Stone"? Was it Perry when he went out on the FTLOSM tour & performed Journey songs without the rest of the band? Was it the band when they decided they could wait no longer for Perry to deal with his medical issues? Had the two parties simply reached an impasse where Perry, for his own personal reasons, could not move forward, and the band, for business purposes, simply could no longer stand still?

Simply put.....Neal and the rest of the James Gang.....No reason not to wait for Perry to make a decision as to whether he will have surgery or not. No excuse. 2 years tops and they would have the world by the balls again. Sad.....really.

But they waited 10 years for his other decision? And, 13 years later he still hasn't toured or recorded?

Bingo.

[madsplash]

As we all know by now, the stone IS fractured. The question is: Who dunnit? Allowing for the fact that none of us really have the full story of what went on behind closed doors with Journey, who, in your opinion "Fractured the Stone"? Was it Perry when he went out on the FTLOSM tour & performed Journey songs without the rest of the band? Was it the band when they decided they could wait no longer for Perry to deal with his medical issues? Had the two parties simply reached an impasse where Perry, for his own personal reasons, could not move forward, and the band, for business purposes, simply could no longer stand still?

Simply put.....Neal and the rest of the James Gang.....No reason not to wait for Perry to make a decision as to whether he will have surgery or not. No excuse. 2 years tops and they would have the world by the balls again. Sad.....really.

But they waited 10 years for his other decision? And, 13 years later he still hasn't toured or recorded?

They should have waited 10 more if that's what it took. Think the Stones would replace Mick if he wouldn't/couldn't tour? And Mick is a complete joke compared to Perry.

No, that would be a less than ideal product, just like what Journey is now. Still very good, but not what it once was, or could have been with more patience, how ever many years that took. Wait on the real thing or keep putting out copies.

[Rick]

I love Perry, and while he didn't fracture it, he caused the other guys to do it. We can speculate from here to the end of the earth why he didn't tour TBF. My opinion is that he knew he couldn't tour that catalog anymore and used his hip as an excuse. I'm probably wrong, but that's what I think.

So he went so far with his "excuse", as to have major surgery to keep the lie going?
And he had just toured that catalog 2 years ago excellently until he got bronchitis. Why would he think he wouldn't be able to do it again? Two years after TBF he did I Stand Alone, and his voice was as good or better than FTLOSM.

The excuse thing is funny to me. He needed an excuse and just happened to get lucky enough to have needed major reconstructive surgery. Lucky guy!

He did pretty well on the FTLOSM tour, but he was tuned down on the Journey tunes.

He would be singing nothing but Journey songs on the TBF tour. Maybe a solo track of his thrown in here and there. Big difference. And I think you know how big the TBF tour would have been.

I seriously don't think he was up to it at that time. He may be now, who knows? But I think that's what happened.

The line I bolded may very well be one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on this board.

[Jubilee]

As we all know by now, the stone IS fractured. The question is: Who dunnit? Allowing for the fact that none of us really have the full story of what went on behind closed doors with Journey, who, in your opinion "Fractured the Stone"? Was it Perry when he went out on the FTLOSM tour & performed Journey songs without the rest of the band? Was it the band when they decided they could wait no longer for Perry to deal with his medical issues? Had the two parties simply reached an impasse where Perry, for his own personal reasons, could not move forward, and the band, for business purposes, simply could no longer stand still?

Simply put.....Neal and the rest of the James Gang.....No reason not to wait for Perry to make a decision as to whether he will have surgery or not. No excuse. 2 years tops and they would have the world by the balls again. Sad.....really.

But they waited 10 years for his other decision? And, 13 years later he still hasn't toured or recorded?

They should have waited 10 more if that's what it took. Think the Stones would replace Mick if he wouldn't/couldn't tour? And Mick is a complete joke compared to Perry.

No, that would be a less than ideal product, just like what Journey is now. Still very good, but not what it once was, or could have been with more patience, how ever many years that took. Wait on the real thing or keep putting out copies.

I don't know if I can agree with that. In reading the interviews, there seems to be some indication that some members of the band were under the impression that Perry, degenerative hip condition notwithstanding, wasn't EVER going to tour again. Not then. Not 10 years from then. NOT EVER! So, what's the point of waiting on something you're pretty sure ain't gonna happen?

Of course, trying to replace Perry is damn-near impossible, and the band made a complete mess of it with all of its fits and starts in the years since they turfed Perry. They're only just now starting to claw their way back, and I'm not sure how much time they have on their side.

[Eric]

The guy did close to 600 shows in a 8 year run. He saved his money and is now retired. If I want to hear Classic Journey or any of the dirty dozen, I'll put on a CD, DVD or even the radio. Very simple.

That is where I am as well! I gave Augeri a chance, was disappointed. Loved Soto but not for journey reasons. Don't fool with the real deal, keepin' it pure. Trial by Fire is the end of my Journey and thank God so many options are there for me to enjoy the way it was, the way it should always be.

I'm at the point I totally respect this opinion. I respect people who think Journey should be Perry at the helm or not at all. I don't agree, BUT...I respect. What I don't respect is people who think that had they waited for Perry that he and Journey would have been an active band again. Journey and Perry was 77-83, 86, 96. The magic was 77-83. I love being able to see A Journey continue, but 77-83 was THE Journey.

[Saint John]

Friga did with his fake tears

[artist4perry]

Not to interupt a good debate on the past, and what could have been, but I think we need T-bone's beating a dead horse inserted here.......its over folks..........Discuss away, enjoy, but to me it won't change a thing.........I just want to enjoy any music any of them make from here on out. Their problems between them, are just that........and that is my useless oppinion on the subject......

[madsplash]

I love Perry, and while he didn't fracture it, he caused the other guys to do it. We can speculate from here to the end of the earth why he didn't tour TBF. My opinion is that he knew he couldn't tour that catalog anymore and used his hip as an excuse. I'm probably wrong, but that's what I think.

So he went so far with his "excuse", as to have major surgery to keep the lie going?
And he had just toured that catalog 2 years ago excellently until he got bronchitis. Why would he think he wouldn't be able to do it again? Two years after TBF he did I Stand Alone, and his voice was as good or better than FTLOSM.

The excuse thing is funny to me. He needed an excuse and just happened to get lucky enough to have needed major reconstructive surgery. Lucky guy!

He did pretty well on the FTLOSM tour, but he was tuned down on the Journey tunes.

He would be singing nothing but Journey songs on the TBF tour. Maybe a solo track of his thrown in here and there. Big difference. And I think you know how big the TBF tour would have been.

I seriously don't think he was up to it at that time. He may be now, who knows? But I think that's what happened.

The line I bolded may very well be one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on this board.

I agree and was showing how stupid it is to think he didn't need surgery and was "making it up".