Question about Neal Schon

[journel]

I debate on other forums (and on more topics than just music), and on one such occasion, I was pitted against an individual by the username of Alpha Centauri, narcissist extraordinaire. The subject was "your favorite guitarist" and I posted some clips and some facts about Neal Schon. The long and short of it is that this guy and myself end up in a sixty page argument on the talent of Neal Schon. His argument was that "greatness" equates to skill; that Jimi Hendrix, being the greatest guitarist of all time, can do things with a guitar that Neal Schon never could. And so on and so forth for Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai, and so forth. Because Neal Schon is not a household name, there are countless guitarists who are better than he is in every way.

Now, this debate long since ended, as Alpha Centauri has a lot more stamina for arguing than even myself. But I was just thinking and wondering how talented Neal Schon really is.

Say, for example, "Eruption." Does Neal Schon lack the physical capability (e.g. speed, dexterity, what have you) to play "Eruption"? (AC masturbated over that one).

Note this is not a question about subjective talents, i.e. sense of melody or the singing guitar, but purely about technical skills.

all i can say is alpha centauri is a bum. "BELIEVE IN NEAL"

[Don]

I think Eddie smokes Neal on the keyboard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rvri_da8_E

[cscott]

IMHO evaluating a muscian soley on technical ability leaves out some of the other factors that makes a musician truly great. Other areas such as compositional capability, use of sonic coloring, conveyance of emotion, breadth of musical vocabulary and so on are also important measures of true muscianship. As far as technical ability, I think Neal is quite good, but not as good as some virtuosos like Paul Gilbert, John Petrucci or Steve Vai. Nontheless, he is still quite capable of pulling off some very technical stuff. In other areas, he is even more impressive. He is definately one of the better composers, and has a much better sense of melody than most. Could he play Eruption? Absolutely. And so can about 10 million other weekend warriors and 13 year old guitar students. It's impressive, but not that hard and anybody who would imply that it's beyond Neal's ability doesn't know jack about guitar playing.

What makes Neal great is how he is able to use his ability to create and compliment great songs which is much more of a gift than just practicing until your fingers learn how to move in certain patterns at a given speed. Case in point - Racer-X. A band with steller technical skiss, and some of the worst songs ever recorded. I love Paul gilbert, but I can only listen to about 30% of any Racer-x album because the songs just suck until the guitar solo. Strangely enough, take Paul Gilbert out of Racer-x and put him in Mr. Big, and then his talent truly shines even though he shreds less.

For my money though, the best 2 guitarists who have all bases covered are John Petrucci and Rik Emmet. Between the two of them, they could play anything.

[JrnySuxBalls]

agreed...mostly...but john petrucci...neal can own this guy if he chooses to. remember, neal joined santana when he was just 15, so technically he can play anything from blues, rock to metal and maybe a little bit of jazz, since this is on the other side of the spectrum (pat metheny, john maclaughlin, john abercrombie, terje rypdal, ralph towner...) "BELIEVE IN NEAL"

Neal is great, but he doesn't really play jazz, he can play "jazzy". And Petrucci, he may
not have Neal's melodic and blues sense, but his technique and his memory of very
complex lines is simply astounding. Neal shreds for sure, but in a real off the cuff way.

It's not really a competitive sport though anyway.

[Ehwmatt]

agreed...mostly...but john petrucci...neal can own this guy if he chooses to. remember, neal joined santana when he was just 15, so technically he can play anything from blues, rock to metal and maybe a little bit of jazz, since this is on the other side of the spectrum (pat metheny, john maclaughlin, john abercrombie, terje rypdal, ralph towner...) "BELIEVE IN NEAL"

Neal is great, but he doesn't really play jazz, he can play "jazzy". And Petrucci, he may
not have Neal's melodic and blues sense, but his technique and his memory of very
complex lines is simply astounding. Neal shreds for sure, but in a real off the cuff way.

It's not really a competitive sport though anyway.

Yeah, we are talking about two of my top five guitarists here, but Petrucci is a technical master and Neal is a great player who was mostly "self-taught." Neal himself admits he doesn't know what he's doing in terms of theory most of the time, his ear/feel is just that good. JP, on the other hand, has all the technique and diverse compositional knowledge you could ever need. They're both great, but technically speaking, JP has a leg up on Neal. That's not a knock against Neal, it's just the way it is.

[strangegrey]

Wow, I came in on this one late.

A few thoughts. NIG said it best. When you get to that level, they're all amazing and they all can play eachothers shit...well. It's really just a case of liking what style each player represents and plays with. Eruption is not a technical impossibility for someone like Neal. That's bullshit...and if someone stated such a thing, they need a glass enema. *I* can play eruption...and Neal SMOKES my ass on this instrument. I am quite certain that Neal could play eruption without so much as 5 minutes of rehearsal time....It took me years to get it. The talent is there....but seriously, why would neal waste 5 minutes trying to learn eruption when he's got his own thing going.

Comparing these two is rediculous...and fighting over it is probably more rediculous...I'd be willing to bet that Neal and EVH have spilled quite a few booze together over the days and are good friends.

Hell, I remember reading an article back in the late 80s and Neal was asked something along the lines of "who, out of all the guitarists out there, do you respect the most" and Neal's response was EVH.


Really...they're both awe inspiring guitarists....why fight over it. Be glad that they're both still alive pissing on their bands legacies. Because we'd all be fucking depressed and crying over the fact that we cant hear new music from them, if they were dead....

As much as I am going to get shit for this, I'd take bad Journey and VH any day over no Journey or VH...

[Dano]

Eddie didn't create Eruption either....it was sniped from Ace Frehley. At least that's what I've been hearing since highschool....

That's like saying Michael Jackson stole the Moonwalk from Flip Wilson.

I almost spit out the bagel I was eating all over my monitor. That's one of the funniest things I've read in a while (and very true, I might add). Thanks for the laugh. Good one!

[slucero]

maybe the real question is:

"Can Neal play with an ERECTION?"

[KDOUBLEU]

My son John loves Neal and started playing Guitar because of him. He is self taught. He makes his old man very proud. Check him out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIoUAh72KNA

[Glenn]

I've always maintained that when you are comparing guitarists at the level of NS and EVH it comes down to whose style you prefer. They can all pretty much play anything.

I prefer Schon's, of course, but I do like Eddie Van Halen's style as well.

But creating "Eruption" and playing it are too different things.

Alpha tried to move the goalpost dozens of times, going back and forth between "SCHON COULDNT PLAY ERUPTION!!1!" to "SCHON COULDN'T CREATE ERUPTION!!1!" and those are two different entities, in my book. I'm not arguing that Neal had the innovation or desire to create something like "Eruption." I just want to know if he's sufficiently accomplished to play ridiculously complex stuff, because I'm told all the time that Neal's work isn't hard at all.

(But it sure does sound it)

Edit: S2M, this is also the guy who tried to tell me that Geddy Lee was a more technically skilled singer than Steve Perry.

Eddie didn't create Eruption either....it was sniped from Ace Frehley. At least that's what I've been hearing since highschool....

Eruption starts with a short accompanied introduction with brother Alex Van Halen on drums and Michael Anthony on bass. The highlight of the solo is the use of fretboard tapping. Eruption was played on the Frankenstrat, with a phaser. A 1960s Marshall tube amp, an Echoplex, a Univox echo box, and studio plate reverb helped define the distinctive tone of the track. The Frankenstrat was tuned a half-step down from regular guitar tuning. Eruption begins in the key of A flat and ends on a E flat note that is a twelfth fret, 6th string harmonic processed through a Univox echo box effect and lowered an octave by an Echoplex.

The Eruption introduction is based on "Let Me Swim" by Cactus. Later in the introduction, an E-flat major quotation of the Etude No. 2 by Rodolphe Kreutzer is heard. The piece that would later be named Eruption had existed as part of Van Halen's stage act at least as far back as 1976, when it initially featured no tapping. [1] Eruption popularized the guitar tapping trend of the 1980s. Although one-handed tapping (hammer-ons and pull-offs) had been previously done by many guitarists, Van Halen introduced two-handed tapping to the mainstream popular rock audience. The main tapping part of Eruption uses a chord structure and style similar to Baroque Music. Similarly, Baroque-like tapping had been recorded by Steve Hackett of Genesis in 1971/1972.

Initially, Eruption was not considered a song for Van Halen. Eddie Van Halen used it as a studio warm up; however, producer Ted Templeman overheard the solo and asked that it appear as a track on the album. Eddie recalled "I didn't even play it right. There's a mistake at the top end of it. To this day, whenever I hear it I always think, 'Man, I could've played it better.'" - Wikipedia

[Deb]

Wow, I came in on this one late.

A few thoughts. NIG said it best. When you get to that level, they're all amazing and they all can play eachothers shit...well. It's really just a case of liking what style each player represents and plays with. Eruption is not a technical impossibility for someone like Neal. That's bullshit...and if someone stated such a thing, they need a glass enema. *I* can play eruption...and Neal SMOKES my ass on this instrument. I am quite certain that Neal could play eruption without so much as 5 minutes of rehearsal time....It took me years to get it. The talent is there....but seriously, why would neal waste 5 minutes trying to learn eruption when he's got his own thing going.

Comparing these two is rediculous...and fighting over it is probably more rediculous...I'd be willing to bet that Neal and EVH have spilled quite a few booze together over the days and are good friends.

Hell, I remember reading an article back in the late 80s and Neal was asked something along the lines of "who, out of all the guitarists out there, do you respect the most" and Neal's response was EVH.


Really...they're both awe inspiring guitarists....why fight over it. Be glad that they're both still alive pissing on their bands legacies. Because we'd all be fucking depressed and crying over the fact that we cant hear new music from them, if they were dead....

As much as I am going to get shit for this, I'd take bad Journey and VH any day over no Journey or VH...

No shit from me. I was just thinking the same thing the other day. As much as Arnel is no Perry for me, he's still pretty good and I'm glad some of these great old songs are still being played live. Doesn't matter, hearing this song performed LIVE still makes me smile biggly (moonie-ism) right from the first chord. It's my favorite Journey song, after Still They Ride.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhrOaO8Y ... re=related

[Glenn]

My son John loves Neal and started playing Guitar because of him. He is self taught. He makes his old man very proud. Check him out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIoUAh72KNA

very cool!

[Michigan Girl]

My son John loves Neal and started playing Guitar because of him. He is self taught. He makes his old man very proud. Check him out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIoUAh72KNA

very cool!

Nice!!
He's very good!!!

[KDOUBLEU]

My son John loves Neal and started playing Guitar because of him. He is self taught. He makes his old man very proud. Check him out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIoUAh72KNA

very cool!

Nice!!
He's very good!!!

Thank you He hopes to be famous someday.

[MrsPerry]

maybe the real question is:

"Can Neal play with an ERECTION?"

Neal could play the guitar WITH his ERECTION

[Gideon]

maybe the real question is:

"Can Neal play with an ERECTION?"

Neal could play the guitar WITH his ERECTION

Your apparent knowledge of this talent is most... disturbing. You shall be watched, my child...

[whirlwind]

Schon is a big part of what makes the special sound of the Journey hits so wonderful. His work with Journey is so original and Schon at his very best, imo.

[stevew2]

maybe the real question is:

"Can Neal play with an ERECTION?"

Neal could play the guitar WITH his ERECTION

I dont its problablly all knarley and chewed up looking