Arnel Solo Album?

[Gideon]

Yes. You miss my point. Steve recieved a hell of a break, same as Arnel. I realize this.

All right, I'm with you so far.

However, we know what Steve did once given that break. What has Arnel done besides sing all the hits that Steve wrote and made famous? Steve was given the same break, and turned it into an EPIC success, including writing and performing arguably the most popular and well known song in the world.

Still with you so far, though I have to be a prick and point out that Perry didn't write all of those songs, and he certainly didn't do so alone.

Arnel has yet to even come close to the same level of success. I wish him success and good fortune, by all means... but he hasn't earned the same musical fellation that Perry gets from fans and the industry for the work he did, regardless of how he parted with the band or what he's doing or not doing now.

The figures and chart numbers are there to back it up.

All right, still with you. I don't know how I'm missing your point at all, actually, since I didn't dispute Arnel was less successful than Steve Perry.

[mdaemon]

:lol:

Welcome back.

Having been away from this place for 10 days does a boy good, but reading some of the pure unadulterated bullshit you spew is laughable and someone needs to come here and call you out on it, so it might as well be me. Perry deserves to be fella ted in music terms. He has earned every online blowjob he gets and has coming. Look at his record. Look at what he has accomplished. Arnel's fans have to be fucking delusional and myopic.... to even compare their god to Mr. Perry is first and foremost wrong on any and every level, but they don't stop there. Arnelians said fuck perry, our guy is not only better than him, but the best ever. Pineda fans are simply put, annoying. Yeah, the Loons can get wet at the sight of a new Perry picture or walk down the street story, but like I said, the man is a proven icon, and he at least should definitely be in the rock n Roll Hall of Fame. Perhaps the Pineda fans should wait til their boy writes a top 40 song, or 20, like Perry did, before anointing him King.

No one denied that both sides lack the capacity to be annoying. But the fact of the matter is that the "Loons" have been operating this way for years; this bullshit is tolerated from them, why not from those who support Arnel Pineda? Because he's not Steve Perry and therefore doesn't deserve the unwavering loyalty of a certain percentage of the fans? Please.

Its because the adoration has become overkill. As I read it, that was Dean's basic point. Was there not a thread not long ago talking about a STATUE of Arnel being commissioned? A bit much for a guy who's done nothing of note besides sing on one gold record, no? He got into that band by having his video on youtube for the right person to grab and post a link to so Neal could find it. He's riding on luck at the moment. Now that he's hit the jackpot, let's see what he does with it.

As Dean said, let him become the golden boy as far as Journey goes by working for it, not by default. Ok, he can sing... we know that. Where are the top 40 hits? Where is the multi-platinum status? These things may or may not happen, but they take time. No one thought Perry was god the day he showed up and it took 2 albums to get a hit and 4 albums to really make it (by which I'm referring to achieving a #1 album).

I really thought that the statue issue had already been explained thoroughly. Again, stop looking at it from an American/Journey/Music point of view. The statue has nothing to do with Journey or the American music industry in particular, This is a Pinoy thing and we will give a statue to whoever we damn well please ...even to Winnie the Pooh or to Ron Jeremy

Seriously, move on please. If an American city gave Arnel a statue then I can understand if you get frustrated. However, this is just one city in the Philippines...it's not even in the capital of the country so this really shouldn't be a big deal.

[Gideon]

Hey Giddy! How are you out of school so soon? Sick day?

Spring break, ma'am.

Go have some fun!

This is fun.

And you should see the weather outside. It's nightmarish.

[Rockindeano]

Take it up with the fact that Perry shitcanned two extremely talented musicians and replaced one with Randy Jackson

LOL, Two extremely talented musicians? Smitty, of course. But Ross? Ross sucks, dude. Hell, he was damn near kicked out of the band by Herbie and Neal a decade or two ago, for being lazy, flubbing lines and drugs. He is there because Neal allows him to be, because playing bass in Journey isn't all that hard.

Another free lesson. You're welcome.

[Gideon]

Take it up with the fact that Perry shitcanned two extremely talented musicians and replaced one with Randy Jackson

LOL, Two extremely talented musicians? Smitty, of course. But Ross? Ross sucks, dude. Hell, he was damn near kicked out of the band by Herbie and Neal a decade or two ago, for being lazy, flubbing lines and drugs. He is there because Neal allows him to be, because playing bass in Journey isn't all that hard.

Another free lesson. You're welcome.

Touche.

[NealIsGod]

I don't know how you meant that, but he'll probably find that offensive. Like Deano, he's not a fan of mine.

No, he's smart like you seem to be, but he's funny and doesn't back down from people.

[Gideon]

I don't know how you meant that, but he'll probably find that offensive. Like Deano, he's not a fan of mine.

No, he's smart like you seem to be, but he's funny and doesn't back down from people.

So what you're saying is I'm not funny and I cow to people?

[Rockindeano]

You do realize that one could argue the case for Steve Perry? That without the approval of Neal Schon, Gregg Rolie, and Herbie Herbert, the Voice wouldn't have a career at all? That his ass still might be in construction? Or that someone could make the same case for Steve Augeri, working at the Gap?

It's a thin argument and can be so easily turned against you.

You do not want this fight do you?

I would argue that Steve Perry would have the more successful career than Neal, Friga or Herbie. They needed him, not the other way around. Hell, a solo artist with that voice would go much further than a good solid band with a mediocre vocalist.

As for Augeri, that doesn't fly. he was in way over his head from day one. Nothing against the guy, but had Youtube been around in 1998 and Pineda was on there, Augeri would still be at the Gap.

[skinsguy]

OMG. I think World War Three just started................

There won't be a war. I'm not easily baited and I don't intend for this to get out of hand; I find Deano to be an intelligent individual and a great source of entertainment for myself and the rest of the board.

I don't know why you think you can make a statement like this, "The bottom line is that Steve Perry cracked the stone first and has demonstrated complete egomania during his tenure" and get away with it
on MR without having your feet shoved though your mouth and tied behind your head by people who know much more than you about Steve Perry. I am not saying I'm one of them, but I certainly think
you are full of shit.

Your opinion has been duly noted.

Take it up with the fact that Perry shitcanned two extremely talented musicians and replaced one with Randy Jackson and the other with a series of failed studio musicians and a drum machine, the fact that he shitcanned the tireless and thankless manager who handed him his career, and the fact that he cost Journey roughly a decade, despite "being dry," "burned out", "and empty" (yet he had time to record two solo albums). All of this before the TBF fiasco for which he remains accountable.

Edit: Just ended a sentence with a preposition. I can feel my English teacher's disapproval even from home.

Don't get all of your information from Behind The Music. Anyone who thinks that documentary was pure, 100% fact is quite naive. And, don't get all of your information from one source, that being HH, Perry, Schon, Cain, or anyone else. You have to look at all sides involved, collectively. Everybody had their on share of "cracking the stone". Sure, it's easy to blame Perry for the depature of Smith and Valory (in which he later said he made a mistake in doing,) but Schon and Cain were equally at fault for not standing their ground on that. Perry was the big gravy train for Cain and Schon, and they were not about to derail that train!

And the TBF "Fiasco" as you called it was a darn good album. Sure, it didn't rock like Frontiers or Escape did, but it was a well put together album.

[mdaemon]

I don't know how you meant that, but he'll probably find that offensive. Like Deano, he's not a fan of mine.

No, he's smart like you seem to be, but he's funny and doesn't back down from people.

So what you're saying is I'm not funny and I cow to people?

Gid, reading the phone book is a lot funnier than reading your posts. However, I admire your ability to express yourself very well. Backing down isn't always a bad thing the same way that not doing so isn't always a good thing.

[bluejeangirl76]

The statue has nothing to do with Journey or the American music industry in particular, This is a Pinoy thing and we will give a statue to whoever we damn well please ...even to Winnie the Pooh or to Ron Jeremy

Winnie the Pooh... now THERE is a mofo who deserves a statue.

At least people (outside MR and journeymusic.com) know who he is.

[Gideon]

You do not want this fight do you?

Certainly.

I would argue that Steve Perry would have the more successful career than Neal, Friga or Herbie. They needed him, not the other way around. Hell, a solo artist with that voice would go much further than a good solid band with a mediocre vocalist.

That would be one hell of an argument to make. Steve Perry's successful solo career came at the height of Journey's success, and it was cultivated and managed by Herbert himself. One wonders if he could have done it without such a set of circumstances. And one would be hard-pressed to argue the fact that he didn't need them, given that he was on the verge of absolute retirement.

As for Augeri, that doesn't fly. he was in way over his head from day one. Nothing against the guy, but had Youtube been around in 1998 and Pineda was on there, Augeri would still be at the Gap.

I think you're confused. Bluejeangirl was asserting that Arnel "got lucky." My contention is that all of them did. The common factor in all of their careers? Neal Schon.

[madsplash]

Hey Gideon:

Stone Fractures:
#1. Untold Passion 1981 Schon & Hammer
#2. Here to Stay 1982 Schon & Hammer

Wether or not Neal says they sounded like Journey or not, he did these albums before Perry did his.
And of course SP's album is gonna sound like Journey, it's his voice that was known as the sound of Journey byt that point.
As a guitarist, it's much easier to play in different sounding styles, that a vocalist changing the way they sound.

Bottom line: Neal wrote/co wrote songs for these records away from Journey. I have no problem with him doing that, but he shouldn't be crying about Perry fracturing the stone, when he did it first.

Even though, let's face it, it was Perry's stone at that point. Before he got there, there wasn't the same stone. Journey was a great band, but not the meteor that exploded with SP's voice.

[jrnyman28]

OMG. I think World War Three just started................

I could only dream WWIII could be handled with words in a mature manner!

[Gideon]

Don't get all of your information from Behind The Music. Anyone who thinks that documentary was pure, 100% fact is quite naive. And, don't get all of your information from one source, that being HH, Perry, Schon, Cain, or anyone else. You have to look at all sides involved, collectively. Everybody had their on share of "cracking the stone". Sure, it's easy to blame Perry for the depature of Smith and Valory (in which he later said he made a mistake in doing,) but Schon and Cain were equally at fault for not standing their ground on that. Perry was the big gravy train for Cain and Schon, and they were not about to derail that train!

Well, he mentioned in Behind the Music that he "probably" wouldn't do it [firing Ross and Steve] again if he could go back and do it over. Not quite apologetic enough for my taste.

And the TBF "Fiasco" as you called it was a darn good album. Sure, it didn't rock like Frontiers or Escape did, but it was a well put together album.

It's actually my favorite.

[brywool]

Its because the adoration has become overkill. As I read it, that was Dean's basic point. Was there not a thread not long ago talking about a STATUE of Arnel being commissioned? A bit much for a guy who's done nothing of note besides sing on one gold record, no? He got into that band by having his video on youtube for the right person to grab and post a link to so Neal could find it. He's riding on luck at the moment. Now that he's hit the jackpot, let's see what he does with it.

But... most people here thought the statue had more to do with his contributions to charity, etc., didn't they? Also, for his country, it's a BIG deal what he's doing. I don't think anyone here thought "Wow, erect a statue cuz he's Journey's lead singer". I think for his country, it's very much a source of pride. Who cares if they want to erect a statue to him? Doesn't take anything away from Journey, Perry, or anybody else. Yet people here were laughing at the guy. HE didn't want to erect a statue of himself, they did. Not sure what the problem is there... why not be happy for the guy and the attention he brings to the band?

As Dean said, let him become the golden boy as far as Journey goes by working for it, not by default. Ok, he can sing... we know that. Where are the top 40 hits? Where is the multi-platinum status? These things may or may not happen, but they take time. No one thought Perry was god the day he showed up and it took 2 albums to get a hit and 4 albums to really make it (by which I'm referring to achieving a #1 album).

I knew the first time I heard Wheel in the Sky that Perry was the shiz. I don't think many (if any HERE) are saying "Pineda's better than Perry". I think that some (myself included) are saying "Pineda's VOICE is better than Perry when he he was canned by the band". Technically, this is true. Perry's voice had a ton of mileage on it. Pineda's didn't. As far as hits, it's a different time. If Perry comes out with a new album, I guarantee you, it won't be a multiplatinum hit. WHY? Because the record companies couldn't find and promote a hit record if it bit them in the ass. We've been here before with FTLOSM- it wasn't the huge hit everyone was saying it would be. Not sure why now would be different than then, especially when you consider record companies were in better shape THEN and Perry was more known THEN.

Regarding the comments above about canning Smith and Valory during ROR- I totally agree with those. It was a despicable thing to do, not to mention completely STUPID. Mike Baird instead of Steve Smith?????- ARE YOU KIDDING???? Not to mention, Omar Hakkim got an audition and Perry went for Baird???? ugh. Even Perry said he shouldn't have done that. He's right.

[jrnyman28]

I don't know why you think you can make a statement like this, "The bottom line is that Steve Perry cracked the stone first and has demonstrated complete egomania during his tenure" and get away with it
on MR without having your feet shoved though your mouth and tied behind your head by people who know much more than you about Steve Perry. I am not saying I'm one of them, but I certainly think
you are full of shit.

Why, that is a completely accurate statement.

[Rockindeano]

The statue has nothing to do with Journey or the American music industry in particular, This is a Pinoy thing and we will give a statue to whoever we damn well please ...even to Winnie the Pooh or to Ron Jeremy

Winnie the Pooh... now THERE is a mofo who deserves a statue.

That lazy fucker? Have you ever seen him actually buy his own honey? Noooo. He just always seems to have some ginormous honey pot laying around, filled to the brim with warm honey. I bet that fat bastard has a vicodin prescription too, and holds out on Eeyore and Piglet. Just pops a few pills, downs some honey and calls it a day.

Nice life.

And by the way skank, FU.

[Gideon]

Hey Gideon:

Stone Fracture #1. Untold Passion 1981 Schon & Hammer
#2. Here to Stay 1982 Schon & Hammer

Wether or not Neal says they sounded like Journey or not, he did these albums before Perry did his.
And of course SP's album is gonna sound like Journey, it's his voice that was known as the sound of Journey byt that point.
As a guitarist, it's much easier to play in different sounding styles, that a vocalist changing the way they sound.

Bottom line: Neal wrote/co wrote songs for these records away from Journey. I have no problem with him doing that, but he shouldn't be crying about Perry fracturing the stone, when he did it first.

Even though, let's face it, it was Perry's stone at that point. Before he got there, there wasn't the same stone. Journey was a great band, but not the meteor that exploded with SP's voice.

I don't blame NS for his "Schon and Hammer" project or Steve Perry for "Street Talk." It didn't take time away from Journey.

[mdaemon]

The statue has nothing to do with Journey or the American music industry in particular, This is a Pinoy thing and we will give a statue to whoever we damn well please ...even to Winnie the Pooh or to Ron Jeremy

Winnie the Pooh... now THERE is a mofo who deserves a statue.

At least people (outside MR and journeymusic.com) know who he is.

Winnie the Pooh is a he? I always thought Winnie is a female because of his name and the fact that he is wearing a red hanging shirt that exposes his belly button. Perhaps he's gay? Stevew2 would know...he is the final arbiter on who is gay or not.

[bluejeangirl76]

The statue has nothing to do with Journey or the American music industry in particular, This is a Pinoy thing and we will give a statue to whoever we damn well please ...even to Winnie the Pooh or to Ron Jeremy

Winnie the Pooh... now THERE is a mofo who deserves a statue.

That lazy fucker? Have you ever seen him actually buy his own honey? Noooo. He just always seems to have some ginormous honey pot laying around, filled to the brim with warm honey. I bet that fat bastard has a vicodin prescription too, and holds out on Eeyore and Piglet. Just pops a few pills, downs some honey and calls it a day.

Nice life.

And by the way skank, FU.

Might I ask what I've done to warrant such a sour greeting?

[mdaemon]

The statue has nothing to do with Journey or the American music industry in particular, This is a Pinoy thing and we will give a statue to whoever we damn well please ...even to Winnie the Pooh or to Ron Jeremy

Winnie the Pooh... now THERE is a mofo who deserves a statue.

That lazy fucker? Have you ever seen him actually buy his own honey? Noooo. He just always seems to have some ginormous honey pot laying around, filled to the brim with warm honey. I bet that fat bastard has a vicodin prescription too, and holds out on Eeyore and Piglet. Just pops a few pills, downs some honey and calls it a day.

Nice life.

And by the way skank, FU.

...sounds like somebody we all know *hint*

[madsplash]

Hey Gideon:

Stone Fracture #1. Untold Passion 1981 Schon & Hammer
#2. Here to Stay 1982 Schon & Hammer

Wether or not Neal says they sounded like Journey or not, he did these albums before Perry did his.
And of course SP's album is gonna sound like Journey, it's his voice that was known as the sound of Journey byt that point.
As a guitarist, it's much easier to play in different sounding styles, that a vocalist changing the way they sound.

Bottom line: Neal wrote/co wrote songs for these records away from Journey. I have no problem with him doing that, but he shouldn't be crying about Perry fracturing the stone, when he did it first.

Even though, let's face it, it was Perry's stone at that point. Before he got there, there wasn't the same stone. Journey was a great band, but not the meteor that exploded with SP's voice.

I don't blame NS for his "Schon and Hammer" project or Steve Perry for "Street Talk." It didn't take time away from Journey.

OK. I thought that's what you considered the major part of fracturing the stone. Tell me again, how Perry did it first?
He didn't record albums with other people first. I can't remember what you thought was the first fracture.

The firing of Smith and Valory would have been approved by Neal and Jon.

[brywool]

The statue has nothing to do with Journey or the American music industry in particular, This is a Pinoy thing and we will give a statue to whoever we damn well please ...even to Winnie the Pooh or to Ron Jeremy

Winnie the Pooh... now THERE is a mofo who deserves a statue.

At least people (outside MR and journeymusic.com) know who he is.

He's already got a few.

[Gideon]

Hey Gideon:

Stone Fracture #1. Untold Passion 1981 Schon & Hammer
#2. Here to Stay 1982 Schon & Hammer

Wether or not Neal says they sounded like Journey or not, he did these albums before Perry did his.
And of course SP's album is gonna sound like Journey, it's his voice that was known as the sound of Journey byt that point.
As a guitarist, it's much easier to play in different sounding styles, that a vocalist changing the way they sound.

Bottom line: Neal wrote/co wrote songs for these records away from Journey. I have no problem with him doing that, but he shouldn't be crying about Perry fracturing the stone, when he did it first.

Even though, let's face it, it was Perry's stone at that point. Before he got there, there wasn't the same stone. Journey was a great band, but not the meteor that exploded with SP's voice.

I don't blame NS for his "Schon and Hammer" project or Steve Perry for "Street Talk." It didn't take time away from Journey.

OK. I thought that's what you considered the major part of fracturing the stone. Tell me again, how Perry did it first?
He didn't record albums with other people first. I can't remember what you thought was the first fracture.

The firing of Smith and Valory would have been approved by Neal and Jon.

"Against the Wall" and "For the Love of Strange Medicine."

[skinsguy]

Well, he mentioned in Behind the Music that he "probably" wouldn't do it [firing Ross and Steve] again if he could go back and do it over. Not quite apologetic enough for my taste.

And the TBF "Fiasco" as you called it was a darn good album. Sure, it didn't rock like Frontiers or Escape did, but it was a well put together album.

It's actually my favorite.

Eh....tomato, tomahto....What would you have wanted Perry to have done? Gotten on his knees and have told Smith and Valory to have spread eagle?

Like I said, the most intelligent thing to do is to look at all sides and what has been said on all sides. Every band member has spoken truths as well as spun things to make them look like saints. It's human nature. To dump everything on Perry is stupid, as well as putting all the blame on Schon or Cain. I suspect that there was untold struggle amongst egos from early on, and it eventually came out in the late 80's....and unfortunately carried on throughout the 90's. While these musicians and vocalist made magical tunes together, they probably are just very different people in the end.

[kgdjpubs]

Its because the adoration has become overkill. As I read it, that was Dean's basic point. Was there not a thread not long ago talking about a STATUE of Arnel being commissioned? A bit much for a guy who's done nothing of note besides sing on one gold record, no? He got into that band by having his video on youtube for the right person to grab and post a link to so Neal could find it. He's riding on luck at the moment. Now that he's hit the jackpot, let's see what he does with it.

As Dean said, let him become the golden boy as far as Journey goes by working for it, not by default. Ok, he can sing... we know that. Where are the top 40 hits? Where is the multi-platinum status? These things may or may not happen, but they take time. No one thought Perry was god the day he showed up and it took 2 albums to get a hit and 4 albums to really make it (by which I'm referring to achieving a #1 album).

I agree to wait and see what he does with the opportunity, but "golden boy" of Journey status has FAR less to do with Arnel (or ANY other singer you might put in there) than the state of the music industry. Put a young, unknown Perry singing on Revelation taking over for someone else and I bet you the sales would be virtually identical. Huge radio hits? very unlikely in this day and age considering the band. Multi-platinum status? Journey?!?!? you have got to be kidding me...

Having the talent is one thing. Being successful depends on many things, and luck of being in the right place at the right time (and taking advantage of it!) is a major one. If Arnel wanted to have major hits and sell multi-platinum records in the US, joining Journey was NOT the band to pick. He'll get to play to large audiences and sell some records, but it's not going to be chart-busting success by any standard.

Perry was lucky at being picked out of obscurity and joining an organization that would become successful. I seriously doubt the Alien Project would have gone on to sell 80 million cds if they had not broken up. Other people have not been so lucky. John Farnham has as many vocal accolades as Perry, and may very well be a better live performer, and though he has massive success in Australia, I doubt he could sell out the local nightclub in North Carolina. Freddy Curci has (or at least had) one of the best ranges of anyone I've heard, and despite 2 #1 songs with Sherriff and Alias, he is a virtual unknown. Without the right promotion, talent means nothing.

I know this is going to upset a lot of people here...but if you take Perry's success in the music industry and take it down to ONE person, you get Herbie Herbert. Without him, Perry may well have made a record, but it's highly unlikely that he would be viewed in the same light as he is today.

So what does this have to do with Arnel? He has the talent. I don't think many people would disagree with that. What he does with that gift is yet to be seen. One can only hope he uses it wisely. On the debate with Perry though, I'm just not sure that success is the best way of rating vocal legends, because the opportunity that Perry had will likely never be available to Arnel.

[Rockindeano]

That would be one hell of an argument to make. Steve Perry's successful solo career came at the height of Journey's success, and it was cultivated and managed by Herbert himself. One wonders if he could have done it without such a set of circumstances. And one would be hard-pressed to argue the fact that he didn't need them, given that he was on the verge of absolute retirement.

Easy argument to make. Contrary to what the brainwashed here at MR tend to believe, there are other and better managers out there than Herbie Herbert. Perry isn't stupid, his horrible grammar on BTM aside, he wasn't going to remain in the San Joaquin valley in 100 degree heat and dust constructing turkey coops. Someone would have found him. Some will argue that Herbie was the reason Perry got so damned burned out. That schedule he sang was ridiculous. The Departure tour, December 1980, they played 31 straight days. Nice work Herbie.

While Schon and Perry had definite chemistry, Perry could have made it anyway, with another guitarist. It would have sounded different to be sure, but he would have made it, no doubt. Now on the other hand, Schon, Valory, Rolie and Herbert weren't making it when perry came along, were they? Playing the Wharf in front of lobster eating tourists on Sunday afternoons for 2 bucks wasn't going to rocket them to to the top of the charts.

[Gideon]

Well, he mentioned in Behind the Music that he "probably" wouldn't do it [firing Ross and Steve] again if he could go back and do it over. Not quite apologetic enough for my taste.

And the TBF "Fiasco" as you called it was a darn good album. Sure, it didn't rock like Frontiers or Escape did, but it was a well put together album.

It's actually my favorite.

Eh....tomato, tomahto....What would you have wanted Perry to have done? Gotten on his knees and have told Smith and Valory to have spread eagle?

Like I said, the most intelligent thing to do is to look at all sides and what has been said on all sides. Every band member has spoken truths as well as spun things to make them look like saints. It's human nature. To dump everything on Perry is stupid, as well as putting all the blame on Schon or Cain. I suspect that there was untold struggle amongst egos from early on, and it eventually came out in the late 80's....and unfortunately carried on throughout the 90's. While these musicians and vocalist made magical tunes together, they probably are just very different people in the end.

An actual apology would have been nice. For the record, I don't believe for a second that any member of the band has been evil incarnate. But Perry's contributions to the problem tend to get overlooked. Who knew that a nice voice is the reprieve for culpability?

[jrnyman28]

Hey Gideon:

Stone Fractures:
#1. Untold Passion 1981 Schon & Hammer
#2. Here to Stay 1982 Schon & Hammer

Wether or not Neal says they sounded like Journey or not, he did these albums before Perry did his.
And of course SP's album is gonna sound like Journey, it's his voice that was known as the sound of Journey byt that point.
As a guitarist, it's much easier to play in different sounding styles, that a vocalist changing the way they sound.

Bottom line: Neal wrote/co wrote songs for these records away from Journey. I have no problem with him doing that, but he shouldn't be crying about Perry fracturing the stone, when he did it first.

Even though, let's face it, it was Perry's stone at that point. Before he got there, there wasn't the same stone. Journey was a great band, but not the meteor that exploded with SP's voice.

Neal recording solo albums did not 'crack the stone', nor did Perry's solo. But the amount of leverage obtained by Perry's commercial success from Street Talk led to him cracking it.