Arnel Solo Album?

[Gideon]

Alien Project dissolved because of the death of his bassist, thus Perry going into retirement.

Right! That's what I said. I just didn't mention his band's name.

Your argument was that Perry went into retirement because the man died, not because he was having a hard time making it. Except... that's clearly the case. He didn't retire out of remorse or depression; he retired because the band fell apart.

Sorry Gideon, but as far as I have seen, it has always been said that it was the death of his friend and bandmate that led him to hang up the mic.

Can you quote a source? If this is the case, I'll concede the point.

[jrnyman28]

Just curious. If Arnel would, for whatever reason, leave Journey, would his time with the band make you want to buy a solo album of his?

yes i will..BUT only if was a rock album, not like the one he make before..is not my thing

I think this post went into the wrong thread!

[jrnyman28]

Alien Project dissolved because of the death of his bassist, thus Perry going into retirement.

Right! That's what I said. I just didn't mention his band's name.

Your argument was that Perry went into retirement because the man died, not because he was having a hard time making it. Except... that's clearly the case. He didn't retire out of remorse or depression; he retired because the band fell apart.

Sorry Gideon, but as far as I have seen, it has always been said that it was the death of his friend and bandmate that led him to hang up the mic.

Can you quote a source? If this is the case, I'll concede the point.

Not while I am at work. But even in BTM I am pretty sure that is how it was stated...something like 'the death of friend and bandmate so-and-so (does anyone remember his name?) led Perry to leave the music business and go to work on his Uncle's Turkey Farm'.

[Gideon]

"Alien Project when they recorded a demo that landed them a contract with CBS Records. But tragedy struck when the band's bass player was killed in a car accident and the CBS deal fell through."

http://www.steveperryfans.com/press/teenstarsep84.html

Edit: I don't need it right now. I'll wait for it. But I'm not going to argue that point if it's not true, so I want to make sure my facts are covered.

[Rockindeano]

That's just it, Deano, you can't make that sort of argument. It's speculative in nature. Neal Schon was a child prodigy who, apparently, impressed giants like Eric Clapton and Carlos Santana to no end as a mere teenager; connections Steve Perry simply did not have at the time he joined Journey.

So what, Neal Schon was a prodigy child? He was so important to Santana that he left them and they all got inducted into the HOF, minus Schon. Face it, without Perry, Schon is faced with a desperation attempt to find that singer to get them on the charts. And before you all say, Neal isn't about charts, I can tell you he is all about charting. Charting is where the money lays.

[Gideon]

That's just it, Deano, you can't make that sort of argument. It's speculative in nature. Neal Schon was a child prodigy who, apparently, impressed giants like Eric Clapton and Carlos Santana to no end as a mere teenager; connections Steve Perry simply did not have at the time he joined Journey.

So what, Neal Schon was a prodigy child? He was so important to Santana that he left them and they all got inducted into the HOF, minus Schon. Face it, without Perry, Schon is faced with a desperation attempt to find that singer to get them on the charts. And before you all say, Neal isn't about charts, I can tell you he is all about charting. Charting is where the money lays.

That's quite the point. Like Schon, Perry wasn't charting anything. He wasn't fronting anything. Hell, he wasn't a part of anything.

[madsplash]

Because their leader wanted to stop and they stopped. He was calling the shots, no doubt.
Have you ever wanted to stop doing something, go away from it for a while, and then wanted to get back to it?

Not the "leader" but the lead singer. They really couldn't do anything without him. But for him to say to Journey "I'm toast, I've got nothing left" and then to turn around and record his OWN album after saying that to Journey isn't exactly a clean slate.

Again 1 1/2 to 2 years after he got burned out. Why didn't he run back to J, maybe he wanted to write about the personal shit he had just been through with the help of others. Again, he would have gone back eventually, and did on TBF.

Another argument, my friend, that doesn't wash. As you are wont to point out, Steve Perry was "Journey's leader." And exercised a great deal of control with the band. It's not exactly as though they were going to refuse or reject his written songs and it's not as though the army of songwriters he hired for his solo projects are anywhere close to the caliber of Jonathan Cain or Neal Schon.

So I'm curious as to how the bolded part is relevant.

So what are you saying his goal was? To completely break up Journey forever? Is that really what you think?

[Rockindeano]

That's quite the point. Like Schon, Perry wasn't charting anything. He wasn't fronting anything. Hell, he wasn't a part of anything.

Yet.

But his first ever record went platinum three times. I should remind you that Infinity was Schon's 4th album, and it's sales alone eclipsed all of the previous three.

Scoreboard never lies.

[kgdjpubs]

That's quite the point. Like Schon, Perry wasn't charting anything. He wasn't fronting anything. Hell, he wasn't a part of anything.

Yet.

But his first ever record went platinum three times. I should remind you that Infinity was Schon's 4th album, and it's sales alone eclipsed all of the previous three.

Scoreboard never lies.

That simply means Perry was PART of the success, not ALL the success. Perry was a name by the time Street Talk was released. He was an unknown for Infinity--and I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to determine that a drastic style change was made for that album, and it would have likely happened with or without Perry.

[Gideon]

Because their leader wanted to stop and they stopped. He was calling the shots, no doubt.
Have you ever wanted to stop doing something, go away from it for a while, and then wanted to get back to it?

Not the "leader" but the lead singer. They really couldn't do anything without him. But for him to say to Journey "I'm toast, I've got nothing left" and then to turn around and record his OWN album after saying that to Journey isn't exactly a clean slate.

Again 1 1/2 to 2 years after he got burned out. Why didn't he run back to J, maybe he wanted to write about the personal shit he had just been through with the help of others. Again, he would have gone back eventually, and did on TBF.

Another argument, my friend, that doesn't wash. As you are wont to point out, Steve Perry was "Journey's leader." And exercised a great deal of control with the band. It's not exactly as though they were going to refuse or reject his written songs and it's not as though the army of songwriters he hired for his solo projects are anywhere close to the caliber of Jonathan Cain or Neal Schon.

So I'm curious as to how the bolded part is relevant.

So what are you saying his goal was? To completely break up Journey forever? Is that really what you think?

My point is that he was selfish. He wanted Journey when it was in his best interest to do so. He regarded them like a can of Coke; he could stuff them in the fridge and they'd better stay damn well put until he was craving one.

Your contention that he's an altruistic saint whose every action is justified simply doesn't fly.

[jrnyman28]

That's quite the point. Like Schon, Perry wasn't charting anything. He wasn't fronting anything. Hell, he wasn't a part of anything.

Yet.

But his first ever record went platinum three times. I should remind you that Infinity was Schon's 4th album, and it's sales alone eclipsed all of the previous three.

Scoreboard never lies.

But much of it was written before Perry joined....

[jrnyman28]

So what are you saying his goal was? To completely break up Journey forever? Is that really what you think?

I don't think he wanted to work that hard with those guys anymore. I dfinately think PErry would have been okay if Journey stayed down permanantly.

[Gideon]

That's quite the point. Like Schon, Perry wasn't charting anything. He wasn't fronting anything. Hell, he wasn't a part of anything.

Yet.

But his first ever record went platinum three times. I should remind you that Infinity was Schon's 4th album, and it's sales alone eclipsed all of the previous three.

Scoreboard never lies.

You know, I'm actually very happy you brought this up. Two words: Jonathan. Cain.

His first album with Journey went, what? Nine times platinum? Hell, that obliterates Perry's own success with Journey prior to Cain's arrival, doesn't it?

Scoreboard never lies.

Edit: All of this is to say that even statistics can be interpreted differently when you want to do so.

[journel]

Alien Project dissolved because of the death of his bassist, thus Perry going into retirement.

Right! That's what I said. I just didn't mention his band's name.

Your argument was that Perry went into retirement because the man died, not because he was having a hard time making it. Except... that's clearly the case. He didn't retire out of remorse or depression; he retired because the band fell apart.

Sorry Gideon, but as far as I have seen, it has always been said that it was the death of his friend and bandmate that led him to hang up the mic.

i beg to disagree...remember, vh1's behind the music in 2001 interview, SP mentioned something like "i never really felt like i was part of the band". now that's a good reason to call it quits!

[Gideon]

Alien Project dissolved because of the death of his bassist, thus Perry going into retirement.

Right! That's what I said. I just didn't mention his band's name.

Your argument was that Perry went into retirement because the man died, not because he was having a hard time making it. Except... that's clearly the case. He didn't retire out of remorse or depression; he retired because the band fell apart.

Sorry Gideon, but as far as I have seen, it has always been said that it was the death of his friend and bandmate that led him to hang up the mic.

i beg to disagree...remember, vh1's behind the music in 2001 interview, SP mentioned something like "i never really felt like i was part of the band". now that's a good reason to call it quits!

That quote was about Journey.

[stevew2]

That's quite the point. Like Schon, Perry wasn't charting anything. He wasn't fronting anything. Hell, he wasn't a part of anything.

Yet.

But his first ever record went platinum three times. I should remind you that Infinity was Schon's 4th album, and it's sales alone eclipsed all of the previous three.

Scoreboard never lies.

You know, I'm actually very happy you brought this up. Two words: Jonathan. Cain.

His first album with Journey went, what? Nine times platinum? Hell, that obliterates Perry's own success with Journey prior to Cain's arrival, doesn't it?

Scoreboard never lies.

Edit: All of this is to say that even statistics can be interpreted differently when you want to do so.

Three words not two Jonathan Leonard Friga

[Rockindeano]

You know, I'm actually very happy you brought this up. Two words: Jonathan. Cain.

His first album with Journey went, what? Nine times platinum? Hell, that obliterates Perry's own success with Journey prior to Cain's arrival, doesn't it?

Scoreboard never lies.

Edit: All of this is to say that even statistics can be interpreted differently when you want to do so.

Oh I knew you would come back with this, I would too if I was a Journey gummer.

Take out Perry and what does Escape sell?

[skinsguy]

That's quite the point. Like Schon, Perry wasn't charting anything. He wasn't fronting anything. Hell, he wasn't a part of anything.

Yet.

But his first ever record went platinum three times. I should remind you that Infinity was Schon's 4th album, and it's sales alone eclipsed all of the previous three.

Scoreboard never lies.

You know, I'm actually very happy you brought this up. Two words: Jonathan. Cain.

His first album with Journey went, what? Nine times platinum? Hell, that obliterates Perry's own success with Journey prior to Cain's arrival, doesn't it?

Scoreboard never lies.

Edit: All of this is to say that even statistics can be interpreted differently when you want to do so.

This argument would only work if Jonathan Cain didn't have Steve Perry singing on the record. This statement basically says that Steve Perry made Journey a whole heck of a lot better, and Jon Cain together with Steve Perry and Neal Schon made Journey the best.

[Gideon]

You know, I'm actually very happy you brought this up. Two words: Jonathan. Cain.

His first album with Journey went, what? Nine times platinum? Hell, that obliterates Perry's own success with Journey prior to Cain's arrival, doesn't it?

Scoreboard never lies.

Edit: All of this is to say that even statistics can be interpreted differently when you want to do so.

Oh I knew you would come back with this, I would too if I was a Journey gummer.

Take out Perry and what does Escape sell?

Completely speculative. In my opinion, probably not at all. That's not the point.

[Gideon]

That's quite the point. Like Schon, Perry wasn't charting anything. He wasn't fronting anything. Hell, he wasn't a part of anything.

Yet.

But his first ever record went platinum three times. I should remind you that Infinity was Schon's 4th album, and it's sales alone eclipsed all of the previous three.

Scoreboard never lies.

You know, I'm actually very happy you brought this up. Two words: Jonathan. Cain.

His first album with Journey went, what? Nine times platinum? Hell, that obliterates Perry's own success with Journey prior to Cain's arrival, doesn't it?

Scoreboard never lies.

Edit: All of this is to say that even statistics can be interpreted differently when you want to do so.

This argument would only work if Jonathan Cain didn't have Steve Perry singing on the record. This statement basically says that Steve Perry made Journey a whole heck of a lot better, and Jon Cain together with Steve Perry and Neal Schon made Journey the best.

I think you're getting confused. I'm not arguing that Jonathan Cain was more important to their success (or even as important). I'm just showing how stupid it is to blindly throw around sales without qualification, as Deano has done.

[kgdjpubs]

You know, I'm actually very happy you brought this up. Two words: Jonathan. Cain.

His first album with Journey went, what? Nine times platinum? Hell, that obliterates Perry's own success with Journey prior to Cain's arrival, doesn't it?

Scoreboard never lies.

Edit: All of this is to say that even statistics can be interpreted differently when you want to do so.

Oh I knew you would come back with this, I would too if I was a Journey gummer.

Take out Perry and what does Escape sell?

you totally re-write history at that point. 50 million, 5, 0 (no band) or any variation in between.
Gideon's point is valid though. Perry/Cain was a better combination than Perry/Rolie saleswise--at least at that point in time.

[Gideon]

You know, I'm actually very happy you brought this up. Two words: Jonathan. Cain.

His first album with Journey went, what? Nine times platinum? Hell, that obliterates Perry's own success with Journey prior to Cain's arrival, doesn't it?

Scoreboard never lies.

Edit: All of this is to say that even statistics can be interpreted differently when you want to do so.

Oh I knew you would come back with this, I would too if I was a Journey gummer.

Take out Perry and what does Escape sell?

you totally re-write history at that point. 50 million, 5, 0 (no band) or any variation in between.
Gideon's point is valid though. Perry/Cain was a better combination than Perry/Rolie saleswise--at least at that point in time.

My point being that Steve Perry was not the only factor in Journey's success. So people should stop pretending that this is the case.

[kgdjpubs]

You know, I'm actually very happy you brought this up. Two words: Jonathan. Cain.

His first album with Journey went, what? Nine times platinum? Hell, that obliterates Perry's own success with Journey prior to Cain's arrival, doesn't it?

Scoreboard never lies.

Edit: All of this is to say that even statistics can be interpreted differently when you want to do so.

Oh I knew you would come back with this, I would too if I was a Journey gummer.

Take out Perry and what does Escape sell?

you totally re-write history at that point. 50 million, 5, 0 (no band) or any variation in between.
Gideon's point is valid though. Perry/Cain was a better combination than Perry/Rolie saleswise--at least at that point in time.

My point being that Steve Perry was not the only factor in Journey's success. So people should stop pretending that this is the case.

pot, meet kettle. kettle, this is pot.

[skinsguy]

I think you're getting confused. I'm not arguing that Jonathan Cain was more important to their success (or even as important). I'm just showing how stupid it is to blindly throw around sales without qualification, as Deano has done.

No, not getting confused. I just believe you don't have a good handle of your argument.

[skinsguy]

My point being that Steve Perry was not the only factor in Journey's success. So people should stop pretending that this is the case.

I don't believe many people here have made that argument, but it is fact that Perry is responsible for quite a large amount of Journey's success.

[Gideon]

I think you're getting confused. I'm not arguing that Jonathan Cain was more important to their success (or even as important). I'm just showing how stupid it is to blindly throw around sales without qualification, as Deano has done.

No, not getting confused. I just believe you don't have a good handle of your argument.

Deano's contention: Perry's first album with Journey outsold the ones without him (even with Neal Schon), thus proving that they needed him.

Counterpoint: Cain's first album with Journey outsold the ones without him (even with Perry and Schon), thus using Deano's own logic, they needed Cain.

So, no, actually. My argument is quite solid.

[la michelona]

That's quite the point. Like Schon, Perry wasn't charting anything. He wasn't fronting anything. Hell, he wasn't a part of anything.

Yet.

But his first ever record went platinum three times. I should remind you that Infinity was Schon's 4th album, and it's sales alone eclipsed all of the previous three.

Scoreboard never lies.

You know, I'm actually very happy you brought this up. Two words: Jonathan. Cain.

His first album with Journey went, what? Nine times platinum? Hell, that obliterates Perry's own success with Journey prior to Cain's arrival, doesn't it?

Scoreboard never lies.

Edit: All of this is to say that even statistics can be interpreted differently when you want to do so.

This argument would only work if Jonathan Cain didn't have Steve Perry singing on the record. This statement basically says that Steve Perry made Journey a whole heck of a lot better, and Jon Cain together with Steve Perry and Neal Schon made Journey the best.

oooh. (singing) there's no I in team...

[Gideon]

My point being that Steve Perry was not the only factor in Journey's success. So people should stop pretending that this is the case.

I don't believe many people here have made that argument, but it is fact that Perry is responsible for quite a large amount of Journey's success.

First, lol, you'd be surprised who has contended that on these forums.

Second, no one has denied Perry's contributions.

[brywool]

My point being that Steve Perry was not the only factor in Journey's success. So people should stop pretending that this is the case.

I don't believe many people here have made that argument, but it is fact that Perry is responsible for quite a large amount of Journey's success.

Not many, but the ones that do are pretty loud about it.

[Gideon]

All right, ladies and gentlemen. I'm done for a little while. Good fight and we'll resume later.