President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:19 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Deano, the fanatics of the world only understand one thing, brute force and overwhelming ass whippings. Best if we're the ones to apply it and not the other way around. This pussy footing around will shirley get alot of people killed, and most will be innocent civilians.


Say, if this is such a sure fire way of fixing this mess, why don't you stroll down to your local recruiting office and enlist?

Yeah, didn't think so.

Look, I was in the Army, faced bullets, claymores, and rpg's. It's Hell. it;s bad enough without inflicting torture. Hell, we're all human beings...I just don't get you guys....
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Postby Eric » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:28 am

Rockindeano wrote:WTF are you talking about? Innocents? Hey, let's talk innocents shall we? Gitmo. Guess what? There a ton of innocents there, who, yes, have been tortured. Tortured by OUR government. don't believe me, ask Col. Powell.


HOOOOOOOOOOOOOH

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/14/gitmo. ... index.html
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Postby Eric » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:30 am

A couple of links with essentially opposite viewpoints....but both interesting reads:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123854083982575457.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:49 am



That number, 61, is cloudy at best, and is disputed by some of the Pentagon's own info.
Additionally, a reason why some of those detainees get released in the first place is because of the tactics used to elicit confessions and intel.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:54 am

Fact Finder wrote:Click this link, read the story, watch the video and tell me you don't want to waterboard some Taliban ass.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 030741.ece

Dare ya.


Sorry.
I don't feel the need to inject "enhanced interrogation" tactics (a euphemism first coined by the Nazis) into our constitutional legal system.
We didn't need it for Ramzi Yousef or Timothy McVeigh, and we don't need it now.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:03 am

More Fuck ups from the Obama Camp-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/

The Dow Jones industrial average clawed higher to end above 8,000 for the first time in nearly two months, and logged an impressive fourth straight week of gains. Overall, the Dow is up 20.98 percent, the best four-week percentage gain since 1933.

Damn Socialist!
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:03 am

Come on Cons, pick a topic, any topic. Let's have some fun.
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Postby Eric » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:09 am

Rockindeano wrote:Come on Cons, pick a topic, any topic. Let's have some fun.


While I hope it continues to go up - even if that means Obama is hailed a hero - its still down 1k from election day.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:47 am

Welcome back Miss-

LOL, Obama is failing at leading the Free World...Jesus Christ, he inherited the worst mess any president in any government in any country in this very world ever has. Hell, Gorbachev had it better in Russia in the early 80's, when bread was 40 bucks a loaf! The guy (Obama), has been in office 90 days and already, he is a failure. Goddammit, bring Bush and Dick back!

I see you conveniently glossed over the 4 straight week up tick of the Stock Market eh, FF? You harped on that for weeks after Obama was elected, saying that was a clear indicator of the economic mindset of the President and that the financial world was frowning upon his ideals...yet now, the stock market is on fire, and not a peep out of you.

Get to drinking, because you are going to need the alcohol to absorb the asskicking you are going to receive here.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:44 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:Welcome back Miss-

LOL, Obama is failing at leading the Free World...Jesus Christ, he inherited the worst mess any president in any government in any country in this very world ever has. Hell, Gorbachev had it better in Russia in the early 80's, when bread was 40 bucks a loaf! The guy (Obama), has been in office 90 days and already, he is a failure. Goddammit, bring Bush and Dick back!

I see you conveniently glossed over the 4 straight week up tick of the Stock Market eh, FF? You harped on that for weeks after Obama was elected, saying that was a clear indicator of the economic mindset of the President and that the financial world was frowning upon his ideals...yet now, the stock market is on fire, and not a peep out of you.

Get to drinking, because you are going to need the alcohol to absorb the asskicking you are going to receive here.



Are you for real? Don't insult my portfolio. Also, keep your hands off of it.


I am for the Greater good, not my own personal, selfish prized possessions. THAT's where we are different. I want a whole America, you want a me, my mine.
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Postby Deacon » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:47 am

If someone isn't for the greater good of the whole country, then they're not for wanting their own self to succeed.

Saying that, though, it is stupid to live on either extreme of that scale. A person needs a balance of self-indulgence and a desire for the greater good.
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Postby Barb » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:06 pm

Deacon wrote:If someone isn't for the greater good of the whole country, then they're not for wanting their own self to succeed.

Saying that, though, it is stupid to live on either extreme of that scale. A person needs a balance of self-indulgence and a desire for the greater good.


Self indulgence or self sufficiency?
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Postby Deacon » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:11 pm

Barb wrote:
Deacon wrote:If someone isn't for the greater good of the whole country, then they're not for wanting their own self to succeed.

Saying that, though, it is stupid to live on either extreme of that scale. A person needs a balance of self-indulgence and a desire for the greater good.


Self indulgence or self sufficiency?


A little of both would work. :lol: :lol:
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:21 pm

Fact Finder wrote:TNC...

In an interview on CNN.com on Friday titled “Zakaria: Obama disappoints as world leader,” author and CNN anchor Fareed Zakaria threw cold water on the media’s laudatory coverage of President Obama’s trip to Europe: “Although he brought a lot of star power -- the talk of the week -- at least in certain circles in Washington, New York and London -- has been that President Obama is failing in his role as leader of the free world.” He cited a columnist overseas to support his opinion, something that hasn’t really been done in the media’s coverage of the trip. Zakaria also plugged the central thesis of his book, “The Post-American World” -- that the “rest of the world is rising to meet the United States’ position -- economically, politically and culturally.”

The unnamed correspondent who interviewed Zakaria began by asking what the anchor/author thought about the president’s trip. After dropping the “failing” word, he cited a recent column by British columnist Jonathan Freedland in The Guardian, that “President Obama looks neither like JFK nor FDR but rather JEC -- that’s James Earl Carter -- better known here as Jimmy Carter.” The interviewer countered, “But it appears everyone is fawning over him.” Zakaria answered, “President Obama has encountered a Europe that is more resistant to his policy proposals. The French and Germans have their own proposals. The Chinese and Russians have come with their own demands. And everyone expects him to apologize for having caused this mess in the first place.”


Big fan of Fareed.
His CNN show is one of the few newscasts worth anyone's while - and just about the only one tackling international happenings outside of the BBC.
Coincidentally, FF, you once shamelessly posted pics of Obama carrying around his book, "The Post-American World”, to further propel the myth that Obama was somehow anti-American.

This article seems to be tackling Obama on a celebrity level, not substantively.
As far as invoking Carter...well, when it comes to foreign affairs there are worse Presidents to be held to.
To date, Carter is the only President to broker a succesful Israeli peace treaty with one of its neighbors (even writing much of it himself).
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Postby G.I.Jim » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:24 pm

Rockindeano wrote:Welcome back Miss-

LOL, Obama is failing at leading the Free World...Jesus Christ, he inherited the worst mess any president in any government in any country in this very world ever has. Hell, Gorbachev had it better in Russia in the early 80's, when bread was 40 bucks a loaf! The guy (Obama), has been in office 90 days and already, he is a failure. Goddammit, bring Bush and Dick back!

I see you conveniently glossed over the 4 straight week up tick of the Stock Market eh, FF? You harped on that for weeks after Obama was elected, saying that was a clear indicator of the economic mindset of the President and that the financial world was frowning upon his ideals...yet now, the stock market is on fire, and not a peep out of you.

Get to drinking, because you are going to need the alcohol to absorb the asskicking you are going to receive here.


No...we're going to need a lot of alcohol to deal with the fact that bread costs US $40 per loaf. This president is bitching about our deficit, blaming Bush, yet he's going to triple the fucker in his first term! Explain to me how that makes sense. :roll: He's going to spend more than we're worth, and make our dollar fucking worthless. He's proposing to spend more than EVERY president before him combined...How does that not scare the SHIT out of you?

I like his response to North Korea's test missle too...we'll talk it over with the U.N. ....give me a damn break! How well has that worked out for us so far? China's got North Korea so far down their back pockets, that they'll NEVER do anything about them. I say if we want to put the squeeze on them...put the squeeze on China. Tell the we're shutting off their imports and turning to American workers and companies for our products. Sure it'd cost us more, but Obastard doesn't give a shit about our tax dollars! It'd give our failing companies some business too, and help out the American people! :wink:
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Postby Deacon » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:32 pm

Rockindeano wrote:Come on Cons, pick a topic, any topic. Let's have some fun.


Yeah, I have a topic for you, Deano.

Why is it that both liberals and conservatives alike decide that it is a good idea to place the economic state on Obama's shoulders? It's obvious that, since he's been in office about only three months, that he has no palpable influence on it.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:43 pm

G.I.Jim wrote:No...we're going to need a lot of alcohol to deal with the fact that bread costs US $40 per loaf. This president is bitching about our deficit, blaming Bush, yet he's going to triple the fucker in his first term! Explain to me how that makes sense. :roll:


We'll cross that bridge when we get there.
The CBO predicted that Clinton would leave us with a deficit and instead he gave Bush a surplus.
In the short term, Obama needs to deficit spend to prime the pump.

G.I.Jim wrote:He's going to spend more than we're worth, and make our dollar fucking worthless. He's proposing to spend more than EVERY president before him combined...How does that not scare the SHIT out of you?


Easy.
Because many of the endeavors in the stimulus will help save money in the long term.
And before you say the link between reforming healthcare and jobs is shaky at best, go tell it to GM who spends more on healthcare than steel.
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Postby Deacon » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:44 pm

You speak of the long term, TNC, but how long of a time is this projection?
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:21 pm

Deacon wrote:You speak of the long term, TNC, but how long of a time is this projection?


Hard to say...
Likely until private spending and investment picks up, or so the theory goes...but economics is an inexact alchemy.
Leftist economists that propose such hole-digging stimulus ideas (Baker, Krugman, Stiglitz) have said early on that Obama's stim is flawed.
However, on the upside, reforming our medical system and retrofitting infrastructure is an investment that will pay dividends no matter what.
At this point it's worth a try over the GOP alternative: cutting spending during a recession when there's already NO SPENDING!
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Postby jrnychick » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:56 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:Welcome back Miss-

LOL, Obama is failing at leading the Free World...Jesus Christ, he inherited the worst mess any president in any government in any country in this very world ever has. Hell, Gorbachev had it better in Russia in the early 80's, when bread was 40 bucks a loaf! The guy (Obama), has been in office 90 days and already, he is a failure. Goddammit, bring Bush and Dick back!

I see you conveniently glossed over the 4 straight week up tick of the Stock Market eh, FF? You harped on that for weeks after Obama was elected, saying that was a clear indicator of the economic mindset of the President and that the financial world was frowning upon his ideals...yet now, the stock market is on fire, and not a peep out of you.

Get to drinking, because you are going to need the alcohol to absorb the asskicking you are going to receive here.



Are you for real? Don't insult my portfolio. Also, keep your hands off of it.


I am for the Greater good, not my own personal, selfish prized possessions. THAT's where we are different. I want a whole America, you want a me, my mine.



Ah, I see. You don't have a portfolio. That's ok, there's still time.

Deano, you are so full of shit it ain't funny. If you knew the type of work my wife and have done for 20 years you'd know that we work everyday for the greater good. We get paid for it and some of it we have saved for retirement and for our 3 kids and 1 grandchild. I pay handsomely in taxes for the greater good. If saving some for myself so I don't have to eat Alpo later on in life is so wrong then America is truly screwed up. By being self sufficient we provide more greater good to this world than those who are dependent on us to do it for them. This country would be much better off if more of us were self sufficient and didn't rely on the Government for food stamps. One in ten Americans are on food stamps and to me that is dispicable and is a symptom of laziness, lack of work ethic and a reliance on womb to the tomb mentality that has be fostered upon the public for 40 years now. Thank you LBJ. NOT!


I have to agree with Fact Finder here. I believe in working hard to support my family. My hubby and I work hard to pay our bills. I just got laid off, and my last official day was April 1st. I started doing freelance work before that so I will have money coming in ASAP. My husband and I have never asked the government for a handout until now. I did just sign up for unemployment, just in case some of my clients can't pay me on time. I will be going off of it as soon as possible. Unemployment and other types of government aid are supposed to be temporary, while some people have made them a way of life. The point is that when you work hard for what you have (savings, a home, investments), you don't want the government to take it way to make things equal for other people who did not make the choice to work hard and save. There are charities that I donate to because I can afford it and I know the good work they do. I want to give what I can to organizations that I feel need it the most. I don't want the government making the choice for me. I also don't want the government taxing the heck out of me so that I can no longer afford to give money to charities. I also believe that this country was built on the hard work of individuals who never gave up. I feel like now we're being told that instead of being rewarded for being self-reliant, we will be rewarded for not working hard and paying our own way.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:10 am

jrnychick wrote:I have to agree with Fact Finder here. I believe in working hard to support my family. My hubby and I work hard to pay our bills. I just got laid off, and my last official day was April 1st. I started doing freelance work before that so I will have money coming in ASAP. My husband and I have never asked the government for a handout until now. I did just sign up for unemployment, just in case some of my clients can't pay me on time. I will be going off of it as soon as possible. Unemployment and other types of government aid are supposed to be temporary, while some people have made them a way of life.


But the workers pay into unemployment insurance.
It's not welfare or a "handout."

jrnychick wrote:The point is that when you work hard for what you have (savings, a home, investments), you don't want the government to take it way to make things equal for other people who did not make the choice to work hard and save.


Why not?
For the past eight years, the Bush tax cuts redistributed the wealth upwards.

jrnychick wrote: There are charities that I donate to because I can afford it and I know the good work they do. I want to give what I can to organizations that I feel need it the most. I don't want the government making the choice for me. I also don't want the government taxing the heck out of me so that I can no longer afford to give money to charities.


Make over $250,000 do ya?
You can afford it.

jrnychick wrote:I feel like now we're being told that instead of being rewarded for being self-reliant, we will be rewarded for not working hard and paying our own way.


Moving the the top income tax rate from 35 percent back to 39.6 percent does all that huh?
How would you Cons feel if we moved it back to Eisenhower levels of 91-92 percent?
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:37 am

Fact Finder wrote:In the majority of States, benefit funding is based solely on a tax imposed on employers. (Three (3) States require minimal employee contributions.)

http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/une ... tsheet.asp


I incorrectly thought that was the rule across the board.
Apparently, it's not, but it should be.
Let the record clearly show, I am man enough to admit when I am wrong on something.
That said, unemployment doesn't come out of the public dole like welfare.
Employers pay into the insurance fund based on how many employees they have.
So it's the employee's right to claim.

Fact Finder wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Why not?
For the past eight years, the Bush tax cuts redistributed the wealth upwards.


Did The Bush Tax Cuts Favor The Wealthy
January 21, 2008

As Congress debates whether to renew tax cuts enacted early in the George W. Bush presidency, as well as various economic stimulus plans, critics often label the measures as "tax cuts for the rich." Yet a new report from the National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) says the Bush tax cuts made the tax code more progressive, no matter how progressivity is measured. In fact, the report concludes that every major tax change (Republican or Democrat) over the past two decades has increased the share of taxes paid by the wealthiest Americans.

"It is politically popular to say that tax cuts benefit the wealthy," said Michael D. Stroup, a Stephen F. Austin University economist who authored the NCPA report. "The accusation does not match the reality."

The progressivity of the tax system can be measured in four ways: (1) the share of taxes paid by different income groups, (2) the share of income paid in taxes, (3) the change in taxes relative to the change in income over time, and (4) a comparison of inequality of income to the inequality of taxes over time.

Looking at the first three measures, the report found that:

The top 1 percent of income earners pay more than one in every three dollars the IRS collects in taxes. From 1986 to 2004, the total share of the income tax burden paid by the top 1 percent of earners grew from 25.8 percent to 36.9 percent, while the total share of the tax burden paid by the bottom half of earners fell from 6.5 percent to only 3.3 percent.
During the same period, the percentage of income the top 1 percent of tax filers paid in federal income taxes rose from 18.3 percent to 19.6 percent. By contrast, the percentage of income the bottom fifth of tax filers paid in federal income taxes dropped from 0.4 percent to zero.
The income share of the top 1 percent rose 7.7 percentage points, from 11.3 percent to 19 percent, while their income tax burden rose even more, by 11 percentage points, from 26 percent to 37 percent.
The final measure compares the inequality of income to the inequality of taxes paid over time among all income groups. This measure is the "progressivity index," and is a numerical representation between 0 and 1. The closer the index value is to 1, the more progressive the tax system. For example:

From 1990 to 2000, the progressivity index increased from 0.476 to 0.617, during a period where marginal tax rates increased but capital gains tax rates fell.
From 2001 to 2004, under George W. Bush's tax reforms, the tax progressivity index continued to rise from 0.608 to 0.664.
"Its important when discussing tax reforms to consider how the system reacts, because of the great discretion high earners have in how they earn income and therefore pay taxes," said Stroup. "Bush's reforms have helped diminish the income gap between rich and poor, rather than make it worse."

http://www.ncpa.org/media/did-the-bush- ... he-wealthy


A "free market" think tank, eh?
All the same to you, I think I'll pass.
Is it really any coincidence that the loudest supporters of the Bush tax cuts were also disciples of trickle down vodoo theory?
From just where, do you suspect, those gains were to trickle down from?
Unless the "top" in top marginal tax rates is now Bush Orweillian newspeak for the poor, file this under bullshit.

Fact Finder wrote:How do you know she can afford it? The cumulitavie tax in America approaches 54% when every tax known to man is factored in, thus reducing jrnychicks $250 to $125 disposable. Depending on where she's located it's debatable if $125 is satisfactory to maintain a normal lifestyle.


FF,
Just the other day you floated the idea that (GASP!) workers could someday be shafted out of their benefits and pensions.
Welcome to the real world, buddy!
Just what do you know about the plight of the low level worker anyway?
And if you are a titan of industry, just what are you doing on here all day cuting and pasting Fred Thompson blogs?

Fact Finder wrote:I would hate you with a passion you've never seen and hopefully will never experience. Even the King of Dems JFK knew we couldn't progress under confiscatory rates and brought them down to 70% tops.


70% is a long way from the current 'starve the beast' Reagan rates of 29-39%.
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Postby jrnychick » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:25 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
jrnychick wrote:I have to agree with Fact Finder here. I believe in working hard to support my family. My hubby and I work hard to pay our bills. I just got laid off, and my last official day was April 1st. I started doing freelance work before that so I will have money coming in ASAP. My husband and I have never asked the government for a handout until now. I did just sign up for unemployment, just in case some of my clients can't pay me on time. I will be going off of it as soon as possible. Unemployment and other types of government aid are supposed to be temporary, while some people have made them a way of life.


But the workers pay into unemployment insurance.
It's not welfare or a "handout."

jrnychick wrote:The point is that when you work hard for what you have (savings, a home, investments), you don't want the government to take it way to make things equal for other people who did not make the choice to work hard and save.


Why not?
For the past eight years, the Bush tax cuts redistributed the wealth upwards.

jrnychick wrote: There are charities that I donate to because I can afford it and I know the good work they do. I want to give what I can to organizations that I feel need it the most. I don't want the government making the choice for me. I also don't want the government taxing the heck out of me so that I can no longer afford to give money to charities.


Make over $250,000 do ya?
You can afford it.

jrnychick wrote:I feel like now we're being told that instead of being rewarded for being self-reliant, we will be rewarded for not working hard and paying our own way.


Moving the the top income tax rate from 35 percent back to 39.6 percent does all that huh?
How would you Cons feel if we moved it back to Eisenhower levels of 91-92 percent?


In Illinois, workers do not pay into unemployment insurance--the employer does. I know because I used to own my own company, and my corp. had to write a check to IDES every quarter for myself. I was the only employee, so luckily I didn't fire myself. As I said, unemployment is a temporary handout for people who fully intend on getting another job. I don't have a problem with people collecting unemployment when they need it. I feel bad that I have to take the money. I do have a problem with people spending years on welfare. The money that I pay in taxes goes to pay for them.

I DO NOT make over $250k a year. Not even close. It would be nice if I did. My husband and I still choose to donate what we can afford to charity because we think it is important. We save money in other ways--my husband's truck has 240k miles on it. My van is 7 years old. Both vehicles were bought used. We needed a new water heater last week, and my husband bought one off of Craig's list for $150. We don't have DVR, and our satellite is the basic channels. We cook dinner at home. We are SMART and CAREFUL with our money. If I did make over $250k a year, what difference would it make? I still think the higher tax rate is unfair.
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Postby lights1961 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:09 pm

Rockindeano wrote:More Fuck ups from the Obama Camp-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/

The Dow Jones industrial average clawed higher to end above 8,000 for the first time in nearly two months, and logged an impressive fourth straight week of gains. Overall, the Dow is up 20.98 percent, the best four-week percentage gain since 1933.

Damn Socialist!


he was out of country... :-) and no laws could be passed. ooooooh
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Postby squirt1 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:05 pm

Deano- This topic should be changed to -The one term Obama thread. Where I disagree with Bush is the bills he signed spending. I think the last 2 yrs of his term he had Dems to vote for his nonsense and still only indebted us under a trillion and at the rate Obama is singing it will be 10-12 TRILLION. This is buying votes by ANY in Congress ! When China pulls Congresses credit card we are finished. Obama could not get NATO to go into Afganistan. YES! They do not have oil and shipping to keep open or Russians to expel ! Afganistan has nothing but poppy fields and terrorists. Russia tried that and the US supplied the weapons for the Russian defeat. I think Russia would supply the same. Wall streeters and bankers involved should all be jailed ! While at it check out how many $$$$$ Obama got from AIG,Chris Dodd, good old Barney et al. I am now going to my room.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:01 am

Fact Finder wrote:So Obama goes to Europe and tells the Socialist Twits that America is arrogant...EFFUBO...


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... icans.html

Does anybody else think this guy is shockingly ignorant? I wonder if he has every really talked to a concentration camp survivor, or a Cuban refugee, or a boat person from Vietnam? Or a Soviet dissident. Or a survivor or Mao's purges.

Not to mention families with fallen American soldiers in the graveyards. Yes, he's going to Normandie, but will he apologize for our arrogance there, too? Does he really understand anything beyond the PC history of the world? Or will he just lie in his photo op at the American Cemetery at Normandie?

Ahhh, those arrogant Americans. First they rebel against King George III and all the crowned heads of Europe. Then they welcome tens of millions of poor and persecuted people from the Old World. Then they fail to bow down to Europe's greatest figures -- from Napoleon and Otto von Bismarck to the Kaiser, Hitler and Stalin. Then they fight a civil war, losing half a million people to liberate black people in America. Then they diss the man the BBC considers to be the greatest philosopher ever, one Karl Marx, whose followers killed 100 million innocents in the 20th century. And then, to top it all off, they liberate both the Western half of Europe (in 1946) and the Eastern half (in 1989).

What arrogance these Americans have. Either that, or a very, very -- no, stunningly -- ignorant man was just elected president. What kind of man has such an obsessive need to put down his own country? Especially given our real history? Has he ever read an honest history book?



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I think the honeymoon will be over for this guy sooner than we think. I've been reading stuff all over the place that kinda indicates he really doesn't know what he's doing. Even using a teleprompter to an unprecedented degree including small things like announcing cabinet positions. As for foreign policy, the world leaders will smile to his face and fleece us behind our backs.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:53 am

squirt1 wrote:Deano- This topic should be changed to -The one term Obama thread. Where I disagree with Bush is the bills he signed spending.


Ever hear of the presidential veto?

squirt1 wrote: ...at the rate Obama is singing it will be 10-12 TRILLION.


Yea, god forbid you should actually factor WAR COSTS into the budget.
Furthermore, in case you haven't noticed, we are teetering on the brink of a deppression.
WW2, which took us out of the last one, required federal spending in the trillions.


squirt1 wrote:Obama could not get NATO to go into Afganistan. YES! They do not have oil and shipping to keep open or Russians to expel ! Afganistan has nothing but poppy fields and terrorists.


But I thought he was soft on terror? :?

squirt1 wrote:While at it check out how many $$$$$ Obama got from AIG,Chris Dodd, good old Barney et al. I am now going to my room.


Dodd gave back his AIG contributions.
You also fail to mention that Jon McCain is in the top 3 AIG recipients.
'Good ol Barney' isn't in the top 20.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:18 am

Fact Finder wrote:Twice now this SOB has went to Europe and talked America down. Unforgivable IMHO and Very UnPresidential...even for a TOTUS.


More lies...
Obama's critique was double-edged, and he repudiated BOTH foreign anti-American sentiment and American arrogance.
However, if this forum's any indcator, he should've went ahead and officially declared America as arrogant (fatally stupid, too).
Didn't the last guy's cabinet dismiss any European country against the war as "old Europe."
Under Bush we shunned the International Criminal Court.
We tried to tell the European Union what to do in regards to banning toxins in their kids' toys (toxins that still find their way onto our shelves).
We haugtily tsk-tsk other countries (most recently Georgia) for meddling in global affairs, when that has been America's MO from its very inception.
Fuck, we even staged a coup in Guatemala on the behalf of Chiquita bananas.
Good on the President for speaking truth to power.

President_Obama wrote:In America, there is a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive. But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual, but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what is bad. On both sides of the Atlantic, these attitudes have become all too common. They are not wise. They do not represent the truth. They threaten to widen the divide across the Atlantic and leave us both more isolated. They fail to acknowledge the fundamental truth that America cannot confront the challenges of this century alone, but that Europe cannot confront them without America."
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:07 pm

Fact Finder wrote:I get the feeling that somehow when Bush did this is was BAD BAD BAD! GASP! O is following his lead, are heads going to explode?

:lol:



No, the Left is not happy about this.
And real Conservatives (i.e. Ron Paul types) are not either.
I'm fine with curbing civil liberties, but I'm not ok with it being done with zero debate, all under the fog of gov't secrecy.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:33 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:I get the feeling that somehow when Bush did this is was BAD BAD BAD! GASP! O is following his lead, are heads going to explode?

:lol:



No, the Left is not happy about this.
And real Conservatives (i.e. Ron Paul types) are not either.
I'm fine with curbing civil liberties, but I'm not ok with it being done with zero debate, all under the fog of gov't secrecy.


I think the whole thing is being blown out of proportion by both sides. I think everyone knows that Obama's rhetoric during the campaign would be modified once he saw the intelligence and security briefings and fully understood what the President faces on a daily basis.

The left freaks out because it is a "left over" from Bush that the Obama people (Rightly I believe) have decided to keep because it absolutely makes sense.

The right is freaking out because the mainstream media doesn't jump all over Obama about it like the did Bush.

Everyone needs to step back and gain some perspective, put aside the labels and REALLY see what is going on. The wiretaps have not to date, been used against an American citizen without a warrant being issued, they HAVE been used against enemies in other countries who don't care if Bush, Obama, Carter, Ford, Nixon or Reagan is President, they just want us to DIE. All of US, and not just the United States EVERY western country because they have perverted a religion and have a bunch of downtrodden people (downtrodden by their own BTW) to recruit from and give some measure of hope to (70 vigrins anyone?). Die and go to heaven and get rewarded, as long as you send the enemy to hell.

I have no issue with the wiretaps they can bug my phone all day long, if they hear me talk about my day and how work sucks and how I really need a week of vacation, so be it, as long as they are listening to the Al Queda operative planning on walking into the mall to blow it up and stop him as a result.

That is just my opinion though.
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