Journey is working on stuff

[Saint John]

my dear st john you speak of haters.... why not let go of your hate for steve perry? you are diggin the current line up, why not enjoy? no need to dis the man that contributed greatly to what we all refer to as the legacy. just enjoy and move on... you really gotta get over it

I'm politely discussing the dastardly acts of a guy that I think sabotaged Journey for the better part of a decade and suppressed their ability to talk about it because he had cleverly wrestled away majority/substantial control. Why does it bother you that I'm talking about it?

you used the word "dastardly" nice work! you know me, i'm one of those positive people and think it is harmful to your psyche to be negative. i don't know, nor do you know the ins and outs of journey's business. sure we've heard neal say many things during those drunken hours in bars... many things i'll never repeat here. just be happy journey continues to rock you and let the past go, especially since all of them have questionable actions, fraud, etc in the not too distant past.

Hi Dean! And what happened to not being negative?

[Lula]

it's me, lula, i swear. i'm not being negative, i just feel my blood start to boil when perry is painted as the only villain in the camp and feel the need to remind folks of the very bumpy sinister road the band has been on. now i've got to change a poopy wyatt

[Saint John]

it's me, lula, i swear. i'm not being negative, i just feel my blood start to boil when perry is painted as the only villain in the camp and feel the need to remind folks of the very bumpy sinister road the band has been on. now i've got to change a poopy wyatt

No argument here.

[Arianddu]

it's me, lula, i swear. i'm not being negative, i just feel my blood start to boil when perry is painted as the only villain in the camp and feel the need to remind folks of the very bumpy sinister road the band has been on. now i've got to change a poopy wyatt

No argument here.

About her blood boiling, the bumpy sinister road or changing Wyatt?

[Saint John]

it's me, lula, i swear. i'm not being negative, i just feel my blood start to boil when perry is painted as the only villain in the camp and feel the need to remind folks of the very bumpy sinister road the band has been on. now i've got to change a poopy wyatt

No argument here.

About her blood boiling, the bumpy sinister road or changing Wyatt?

lol...I don't argue with Lula. She'd kick my ass!

[Arianddu]

it's me, lula, i swear. i'm not being negative, i just feel my blood start to boil when perry is painted as the only villain in the camp and feel the need to remind folks of the very bumpy sinister road the band has been on. now i've got to change a poopy wyatt

No argument here.

About her blood boiling, the bumpy sinister road or changing Wyatt?

lol...I don't argue with Lula. She'd kick my ass!

Or post another picture of you cuddling Mandoll?

[perryswoman]

The re-dos gave me a boner.
Being able to fuck over shitty past members who are too lazy to work and yet are paid like a motherfucker was great!

Fixed it for ya, chief.

I was gonna do it, but you beat me to it.

Hell, I'll bet SP can't wait for Journey to put out new stuff or go on tour. He can use HIS share of the proceeds to promote HIS new material.

Yep he has the best deal in the world and deseves it!

[Gideon]

The re-dos gave me a boner.
Being able to fuck over shitty past members who are too lazy to work and yet are paid like a motherfucker was great!

Fixed it for ya, chief.

I was gonna do it, but you beat me to it.

Hell, I'll bet SP can't wait for Journey to put out new stuff or go on tour. He can use HIS share of the proceeds to promote HIS new material.

Yep he has the best deal in the world and deseves it!

He deserves royalties. That's it. He doesn't deserve a cut of production and effort from an all new line up. Period.

[Rip Rokken]

You know what??? I don't get the double-edged argument...they release one CD and they're greedy....they release a great deal and they're "cheaters." They gave their fans a great package...period. Whether or not it counts, it really doesn't matter...unless you're a fucking hater. Then it's a BIG deal. As a consumer, I felt I got my money's worth.

Others are apparently noticing the approach. Prince just released a 3-disc set exclusive to Target. 2 new Prince discs and 1 from his protege' of the day, for $11.99.

[Saint John]

You know what??? I don't get the double-edged argument...they release one CD and they're greedy....they release a great deal and they're "cheaters." They gave their fans a great package...period. Whether or not it counts, it really doesn't matter...unless you're a fucking hater. Then it's a BIG deal. As a consumer, I felt I got my money's worth.

Others are apparently noticing the approach. Prince just released a 3-disc set exclusive to Target. 2 new Prince discs and 1 from his protege' of the day, for $11.99.

Your avatar cracks me up every time I see it, Rip. Good stuff.

[Don]

This whole thing with Perry holding the group over a barrel so they could continue on as Journey doesn't wash. Was not Dennis DeYoung a founding member of Styx. Didn't The Judge tell him to pound sand when he wanted to stop the group from using the name after his departure. From what I see he doesn't get anything from Styx close to what Perry has been rumored to have gotten. Perry wasn't even a founding member yet you are trying to tell me he has more sway than Dennis would have? If Neal signed an agreement to give Perry this and that over the years then it's his own fault for not standing up for himself or his group. The case with Styx Shows which way the court would have taken it.
Perry is getting whatever Neal and company decided was his right to get. Whether you like it or not, it was their decision.

I think co-founder Roger Waters from Pink Floyd tried the same shit and he didn't get awarded a sweetheart deal out of it either.

[stevew2]

where ya at..let's hook up

no man sex, mmmmkay?

You sure talk about man sex alot,are you friga s bitch?

[KDOUBLEU]

where ya at..let's hook up

no man sex, mmmmkay?

You sure talk about man sex alot,are you friga s bitch?

Thats just SICK AND WRONG!!

[steveo777]

where ya at..let's hook up

no man sex, mmmmkay?

You sure talk about man sex alot,are you friga s bitch?

Thats just SICK AND WRONG!!

And that I'll quote. lmao

[Gideon]

This whole thing with Perry holding the group over a barrel so they could continue on as Journey doesn't wash. Was not Dennis DeYoung a founding member of Styx. Didn't The Judge tell him to pound sand when he wanted to stop the group from using the name after his departure. From what I see he doesn't get anything from Styx close to what Perry has been rumored to have gotten. Perry wasn't even a founding member yet you are trying to tell me he has more sway than Dennis would have? If Neal signed an agreement to give Perry this and that over the years then it's his own fault for not standing up for himself or his group. The case with Styx Shows which way the court would have taken it.

You seem to operate under this assumption that the court system is infallible and completely just; the fact that the courts decided one way in one court case doesn't mean that they'd do the same thing in another, even if the circumstances are similar.

This is not the case.

Perry is getting whatever Neal and company decided was his right to get.

Given that Herbie Herbert and Neal Schon both have went on record that they are pissed at what Perry was getting from the post-Perry lineup's touring, I'm going to have to call bullshit.

Sounds more like Perry is getting whatever "Perry and company [his lawyer] decided was his right to get." A six-way split, according to Herbie.

Whether you like it or not, it was their decision.

Since you clearly have an intimate knowledge of the case, why don't you tell us what the alternative was.

I think co-founder Roger Waters from Pink Floyd tried the same shit and he didn't get awarded a sweetheart deal out of it either.

It doesn't matter. You're comparing two different cases and concluding that since one turned out this way, the subsequent case should yield the same decision. That's not how it works.

The bottom line is that Steve Perry was mooching off of five men working their asses off. It's clever, yeah, but inexcusably unethical; hardly something that anyone should be trying to defend or argue.

Did Jon and Neal get paid for Perry's tour in '94? I'm thinking not.

[Gideon]

Sorry if that came off as being dickish, Gunbot, but it came off like you're trying to make excuses for Perry and I just don't see a logical or moral way that that can be done.

[Jana]

Sorry if that came off as being dickish, Gunbot, but it came off like you're trying to make excuses for Perry and I just don't see a logical or moral way that that can be done.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, Gideon. It's like a divorce where the husband has to pay alimony for ten, twenty years or life, and feels he got screwed, but the wife might feel she didn't get enough.

Maybe neither side were happy with the settlement but came to a meeting of the minds and live with it. Both sides always see it a different way and feel they are right. Divorces are never pleasant, and that's, essentially what Journey and Steve went through.

[Don]

This whole thing with Perry holding the group over a barrel so they could continue on as Journey doesn't wash. Was not Dennis DeYoung a founding member of Styx. Didn't The Judge tell him to pound sand when he wanted to stop the group from using the name after his departure. From what I see he doesn't get anything from Styx close to what Perry has been rumored to have gotten. Perry wasn't even a founding member yet you are trying to tell me he has more sway than Dennis would have? If Neal signed an agreement to give Perry this and that over the years then it's his own fault for not standing up for himself or his group. The case with Styx Shows which way the court would have taken it.

You seem to operate under this assumption that the court system is infallible and completely just; the fact that the courts decided one way in one court case doesn't mean that they'd do the same thing in another, even if the circumstances are similar.

This is not the case.

Perry is getting whatever Neal and company decided was his right to get.

Given that Herbie Herbert and Neal Schon both have went on record that they are pissed at what Perry was getting from the post-Perry lineup's touring, I'm going to have to call bullshit.

Sounds more like Perry is getting whatever "Perry and company [his lawyer] decided was his right to get." A six-way split, according to Herbie.

Whether you like it or not, it was their decision.

Since you clearly have an intimate knowledge of the case, why don't you tell us what the alternative was.

I think co-founder Roger Waters from Pink Floyd tried the same shit and he didn't get awarded a sweetheart deal out of it either.

It doesn't matter. You're comparing two different cases and concluding that since one turned out this way, the subsequent case should yield the same decision. That's not how it works.

The bottom line is that Steve Perry was mooching off of five men working their asses off. It's clever, yeah, but inexcusably unethical; hardly something that anyone should be trying to defend or argue.

Did Jon and Neal get paid for Perry's tour in '94? I'm thinking not.

I posted my take on things. What was your take on things? Perry is the devil and he fucked over the band. You must have intimate knowledge like myself right?
Perry got paid and nothing's going to change that.
I went to two Escape Concerts and Two Frontiers Shows. I've been able to enjoy Journey since the early 80's and beyond. I got my money's worth so I don't give a fuck what Perry makes from the band anymore.

Go ahead post another six paragragh response. I already skip over SJ's rants, yours won't be any different.

It's nothing personal, mind you.

[stevew2]

you are allretards auguing over shit thats been over with years ago

[Saint John]

It baffles me that people can't see that Perry tried everything possible to thwart Journey with every move he made post 1987. From recording an album a year after he left because he was "toast" to touring without them to being suddenly interested only when they got Chalfant and Rolie and were ready to hit the road to taking almost 2 years to make a decision about surgery to legally making them pay his ass while he wouldn't tour, in hopes they'd just say "Fuck it...it's not worth it." What else is one to deduce? That this is all coincidence?

[Don]

[Gideon]

I posted my take on things. What was your take on things? Perry is the devil and he fucked over the band. You must have intimate knowledge like myself right?
Perry got paid and nothing's going to change that.
I went to two Escape Concerts and Two Frontiers Shows. I've been able to enjoy Journey since the early 80's and beyond. I got my money's worth so I don't give a fuck what Perry makes from the band anymore.

Your take simply isn't plausible. Mine takes into account the facts: Herbie and Neal have went on record being opposed to what Perry got out of the case. That means, quite clearly, Neal didn't give Perry what he felt he thought he deserved.

And if you don't give a fuck, there's no reason for you to provide your commentary. Especially when it carries the stench of typical Perry apologia; you didn't take the facts or ethics into consideration. Just "lulz Perry is teh voice so he deserves WHATEVER HE WANTS LOL!!!"

Go ahead post another six paragragh response. I already skip over SJ's rants, yours won't be any different.

Yeah, yeah. You clearly read it the first time and took the time to respond. Didn't think that one through, did you?

It's nothing personal, mind you.

Of course not. That's why it's fun talking to you; I don't have to worry about you throwing a fit or going off. You speak your mind; I speak mine. All I have to worry about with you is that you don't use your fucking head.

[Gideon]

It baffles me that people can't see that Perry tried everything possible to thwart Journey with every move he made post 1987. From recording an album a year after he left because he was "toast" to touring without them to being suddenly interested only when they got Chalfant and Rolie and were ready to hit the road to taking almost 2 years to make a decision about surgery to legally making them pay his ass while he wouldn't tour, in hopes they'd just say "Fuck it...it's not worth it." What else is one to deduce? That this is all coincidence?

Ahem. May I play Devil's advocate?

LOLOLOLZ OMG PERRY IS TEH VOICE AND BECAUSE HE IS TEH VOICE HE DESERVES WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS ETHIX AND MORILS BE DAMED AND IF HE DOESNT WANT TO TOUR SO BE IT NEIL AND JONE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY HIM FOR HIS DIVINE PRESENCE ALOWING THEM TO LIVE! THEY SHOULD PUT HIS GRANDKIDS THROUGH COLLEGE AND START A CHARITY IN HIS NAME BECUZ HE IS JUST SOOOO UBER.

[Gideon]

The child in this photograph reminds me of my nephew.

Anywho, I'm off to watch "Dollhouse."

[Don]

It baffles me that people can't see that Perry tried everything possible to thwart Journey with every move he made post 1987. From recording an album a year after he left because he was "toast" to touring without them to being suddenly interested only when they got Chalfant and Rolie and were ready to hit the road to taking almost 2 years to make a decision about surgery to legally making them pay his ass while he wouldn't tour, in hopes they'd just say "Fuck it...it's not worth it." What else is one to deduce? That this is all coincidence?

Ahem. May I play Devil's advocate?

LOLOLOLZ OMG PERRY IS TEH VOICE AND BECAUSE HE IS TEH VOICE HE DESERVES WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS ETHIX AND MORILS BE DAMED AND IF HE DOESNT WANT TO TOUR SO BE IT NEIL AND JONE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY HIM FOR HIS DIVINE PRESENCE ALOWING THEM TO LIVE! THEY SHOULD PUT HIS GRANDKIDS THROUGH COLLEGE AND START A CHARITY IN HIS NAME BECUZ HE IS JUST SOOOO UBER.

That's my line, oops I wasn't reading that. Dammit.

[stevew2]

[Gideon]

It baffles me that people can't see that Perry tried everything possible to thwart Journey with every move he made post 1987. From recording an album a year after he left because he was "toast" to touring without them to being suddenly interested only when they got Chalfant and Rolie and were ready to hit the road to taking almost 2 years to make a decision about surgery to legally making them pay his ass while he wouldn't tour, in hopes they'd just say "Fuck it...it's not worth it." What else is one to deduce? That this is all coincidence?

Ahem. May I play Devil's advocate?

LOLOLOLZ OMG PERRY IS TEH VOICE AND BECAUSE HE IS TEH VOICE HE DESERVES WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS ETHIX AND MORILS BE DAMED AND IF HE DOESNT WANT TO TOUR SO BE IT NEIL AND JONE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY HIM FOR HIS DIVINE PRESENCE ALOWING THEM TO LIVE! THEY SHOULD PUT HIS GRANDKIDS THROUGH COLLEGE AND START A CHARITY IN HIS NAME BECUZ HE IS JUST SOOOO UBER.

That's my line, oops I wasn't reading that. Dammit.

Hey, who's the girl in your avatar?

[Don]

It baffles me that people can't see that Perry tried everything possible to thwart Journey with every move he made post 1987. From recording an album a year after he left because he was "toast" to touring without them to being suddenly interested only when they got Chalfant and Rolie and were ready to hit the road to taking almost 2 years to make a decision about surgery to legally making them pay his ass while he wouldn't tour, in hopes they'd just say "Fuck it...it's not worth it." What else is one to deduce? That this is all coincidence?

Ahem. May I play Devil's advocate?

LOLOLOLZ OMG PERRY IS TEH VOICE AND BECAUSE HE IS TEH VOICE HE DESERVES WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS ETHIX AND MORILS BE DAMED AND IF HE DOESNT WANT TO TOUR SO BE IT NEIL AND JONE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY HIM FOR HIS DIVINE PRESENCE ALOWING THEM TO LIVE! THEY SHOULD PUT HIS GRANDKIDS THROUGH COLLEGE AND START A CHARITY IN HIS NAME BECUZ HE IS JUST SOOOO UBER.

That's my line, oops I wasn't reading that. Dammit.

Hey, who's the girl in your avatar?

Giada De Lauretiis. See my Lou Gramm thread.

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=41240

[steveo777]

It baffles me that people can't see that Perry tried everything possible to thwart Journey with every move he made post 1987. From recording an album a year after he left because he was "toast" to touring without them to being suddenly interested only when they got Chalfant and Rolie and were ready to hit the road to taking almost 2 years to make a decision about surgery to legally making them pay his ass while he wouldn't tour, in hopes they'd just say "Fuck it...it's not worth it." What else is one to deduce? That this is all coincidence?

Ahem. May I play Devil's advocate?

LOLOLOLZ OMG PERRY IS TEH VOICE AND BECAUSE HE IS TEH VOICE HE DESERVES WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS ETHIX AND MORILS BE DAMED AND IF HE DOESNT WANT TO TOUR SO BE IT NEIL AND JONE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY HIM FOR HIS DIVINE PRESENCE ALOWING THEM TO LIVE! THEY SHOULD PUT HIS GRANDKIDS THROUGH COLLEGE AND START A CHARITY IN HIS NAME BECUZ HE IS JUST SOOOO UBER.

Ok, too many fucking glasses of wine. What else would it be?
Shit, I just remembered I was going to open another bottle, til I caught this distraction while walking toward my wine rack....you asshole!

[Panther]

This whole thing with Perry holding the group over a barrel so they could continue on as Journey doesn't wash. Was not Dennis DeYoung a founding member of Styx. Didn't The Judge tell him to pound sand when he wanted to stop the group from using the name after his departure. From what I see he doesn't get anything from Styx close to what Perry has been rumored to have gotten. Perry wasn't even a founding member yet you are trying to tell me he has more sway than Dennis would have? If Neal signed an agreement to give Perry this and that over the years then it's his own fault for not standing up for himself or his group. The case with Styx Shows which way the court would have taken it.

You seem to operate under this assumption that the court system is infallible and completely just; the fact that the courts decided one way in one court case doesn't mean that they'd do the same thing in another, even if the circumstances are similar.

This is not the case.

Perry is getting whatever Neal and company decided was his right to get.

Given that Herbie Herbert and Neal Schon both have went on record that they are pissed at what Perry was getting from the post-Perry lineup's touring, I'm going to have to call bullshit.

Sounds more like Perry is getting whatever "Perry and company [his lawyer] decided was his right to get." A six-way split, according to Herbie.

Whether you like it or not, it was their decision.

Since you clearly have an intimate knowledge of the case, why don't you tell us what the alternative was.

I think co-founder Roger Waters from Pink Floyd tried the same shit and he didn't get awarded a sweetheart deal out of it either.

It doesn't matter. You're comparing two different cases and concluding that since one turned out this way, the subsequent case should yield the same decision. That's not how it works.

The bottom line is that Steve Perry was mooching off of five men working their asses off. It's clever, yeah, but inexcusably unethical; hardly something that anyone should be trying to defend or argue.

Did Jon and Neal get paid for Perry's tour in '94? I'm thinking not.

Actually, I see it as no more than a simple "out" or "golden parachute" as is the case across corporate America year in and year out. Someone at the top screws up, is asked to step down (more often than not, threatened with due cause) or simply wants out of their contract. Contracts are gone over with a fine tooth comb, offers are pitched from both sides until an agreement is had. More often than not, the agreement contains both a non competition and "gag" order, barring the one on the receiving end from harming the "institution" they are leaving in any manner (as is being seen more often these days, both sides are being issued with these restrictions).

I don't pretend to know the entire time line and all the specifics behind the Journey contracts/arrangements, etc, but it certainly sounds to me as if this were the case. If the end-of-the-road contract placed a huge monetary basket at Perry's feet for a period of ten years, it would hold true that a no-compete clause restrict him for that same period of time AND that all parties involved in the contract issue be placed under the gag order. Of course, at the end of that specified time period all bets are off and each side is out from under all terms and conditions agreed to.

Why on earth any of this matters to any fan of the music is beyond me, though. I mean, really, this entire discussion is akin to an ex rambling on for the remainder of their life about all the ills of the relationship/marriage, what could have been if it weren't for the split and how the world should view them as the victim. Hell, there's too much great music to make to be stuck on the pin of the blame game.