Fuck'em, I'm staying home this year

[Duncan]

North San Diego. It's the only gig that fits with the time i can get off work. I'll have a good time. Where abouts do you live?
----------------

I had an idea it was in the SD area. I am in Santa Monica, on the beach.

We are staying at the Ambrose in Santa Monica for the first night after we fly in. After that two night at the casino.

----------------
Now playing: SLYBOYZ - Solitaire

[Duncan]

Just out of interest. Why would they do a casino show if it sucks? Do they get paid to play?

Yeah they are actually easy money. They playing 2 nights? I would assume so, free food and rooms, and the Casino pays well, but my point is the crowd is not really die hard fans. Many tickets given away to gamblers who could take em or leave em. IMO, lifeless.

Some of us here on this board saw them 3 years ago in Atlantic City, NJ, and it holds about 2,000 of which maybe 800 showed and most were in the lobby getting drinks. It sucked.

Yep 2 nights. Oh well. too late now. tickets aren't on sale yet but flights and accommodation booked. We'll have fun.

----------------
Now playing: Toto - Pamela

[Lula]

i love casino shows. great way to meet the band. you'll have a great time.

[Aaron]

If you've seen Hugo live then fine, if you haven't, hold your decision until you have please. The guy is fucking awesome live.

http://www.valentinetheband.com/

Can't understand how anyone would prefer Hugo over a detuned Arnel.
At least Arnel has power behind the pipes.
Hugo, while supposedly a nice guy, sounds thin as hell.
Can't believe JDK suggested him for Journey.

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

If you've seen Hugo live then fine, if you haven't, hold your decision until you have please. The guy is fucking awesome live.

Can't understand how anyone would prefer Hugo over a detuned Arnel.
At least Arnel has power behind the pipes.
Hugo, while supposedly a nice guy, sounds thin as hell.
Can't believe JDK suggested him for Journey.

that he is. even with a bad cold at Firefest.

[Rick]

If you've seen Hugo live then fine, if you haven't, hold your decision until you have please. The guy is fucking awesome live.

Can't understand how anyone would prefer Hugo over a detuned Arnel.
At least Arnel has power behind the pipes.
Hugo, while supposedly a nice guy, sounds thin as hell.
Can't believe JDK suggested him for Journey.

Others might should translate that sentiment to Pineda as well.

[Aaron]

Nope, I don't have the new Hardline, is it worth a listen?

Detuning a half step on a guitar involves droping every string down one half step or taking each note to it's flat. It's the same on a Bass and I'm pretty sure fag boy does it electronically on the Whale. Anyhow, it just drops each note one half a step to make it easier for a singer that can pull it off over the long haul. I'm sure a lot of casual fans can't tell the difference but I can. The music sounds flat and isn't as crisp, bright or happy as it sounds in it's original key. A lot of folks will hear it and go "that sounded weird or off" because it does sound different. It's all about not killing Arnel's pipes I guess. Perry sang it for 9 years without detuning. Augeri sang for 9 years without detuning (although he had problems) and now their detuning for their newest vocalist, that's bullshit. There are guys out there that can sing those song in their original key day in and day out, Journey just needs to find one if Arnel is already going south. If I'm paying to hear them, they need to sound right or I'm not spending the money. I mean hell, go see Hugo, Hunsicker, Kelty or this new dude that sounds damn good. There are people that can do it. And quite honestly, when Journey can't even do their own material in the proper key, then who is the real "tribute" band. Fuck'em ....

i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

exactly

a half step down wouldn't make a heck of a lot of difference in range unless I don't know what the fluff I'm talking about. it doesn't in my range, amyway. how do they detune? play in another key, half step down? A sharp or flat nightmare. tune all the instruments down a half step? that would be quite an untaking for the whale.

define detuned, please. and what the heck difference does it make.

good grief.

I'm going. Red Rocks for sure, Vegas and Texas. get in the car and stop whining.

(Aaron-do you have the new Hardline? that Frontiers shopping cart is a MESS!!)

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

exactly

a half step down wouldn't make a heck of a lot of difference in range unless I don't know what the fluff I'm talking about. it doesn't in my range, amyway. how do they detune? play in another key, half step down? A sharp or flat nightmare. tune all the instruments down a half step? that would be quite an untaking for the whale.

define detuned, please. and what the heck difference does it make.

good grief.



I'm going. Red Rocks for sure, Vegas and Texas. get in the car and stop whining.

(Aaron-do you have the new Hardline? that Frontiers shopping cart is a MESS!!)

yes, detuned is another way of saying half step down. every instrument (except drums i think) it goes like this: guitar is restrung most likely with a higher gauge strings, in neals case he goes from .09 to .10 gauge in order to accommodate for the looser tension of being in Eb instead of E (yes, that means tuned down) also the action is set to accommodate for different gauge strings, or else the guitar would be hard to play. The "Faz", (the whale's replacement), would then be tuned down, every string all 88 of them, because it would be really hard to translate the songs otherwise. the synths and loops are easy because they can be detuned via computer or whatever. and Ross's bass would be tuned down also, probably higher gauge strings. and this isn't a big deal because journey has good tech guys and lots of guitars so they can have ones designated for E and Eb tuning, its not like they have to keep switching every instrument( except piano) for every show. lastly, it makes a pretty big difference if you are a musician or "audiophile", it gives the instruments and songs a totally different feel, thats why in the clips from hawaii or wherever they first tuned down at, Neal has trouble adjusting and played way more wrong notes, missed bends, and off phrases than normal( his normal is almost no wrong notes ever). however, in the later clips he has gotten used to it. hope this helps!

I understand what you are saying but a half step is just not that much; it just seems like a lot of trouble for so little difference. 88 keys. weird. It makes NO sense to me.

whatevah, carry on.

[Aaron]

Dude I'd pay to see Jason sing again too. Friggin Cleveland is a 5 hour drive for me though.

I'm not really interested in seeing this lineup live either. I liked Revelation and will probably buy another cd of new material, but think I'll skip Journey music unless it's sung by Kelty or Perry.

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

Nope, I don't have the new Hardline, is it worth a listen?
]

it is! Johnny will be interviewed on Steve Price tomorrow. 12pm CST. 6pm in the UK.

email questions and requests. studio@arfm.co.uk

it is far from boring. get it. Melly. Click on the cd cover on the MR front page and follow the link at the bottom to Frontiers.

oops. hijack.

pardon

[Sarah]

Meh I'm not gonna see them either... tickets will be too expensive and I'm not very into Arnel (seen him twice already). I've seen them put on the same show for years now, no need to drop $100 more on it. I've got good memories of past concerts.

[Aaron]

I agree 100% Rick. I seen Arnel front row center at Indy last year. The guy was great in non-detuned form. He had his moments of mispronounced words and shit like that which sucked, but overall the guy sounded great.

If you've seen Hugo live then fine, if you haven't, hold your decision until you have please. The guy is fucking awesome live.

Can't understand how anyone would prefer Hugo over a detuned Arnel.
At least Arnel has power behind the pipes.
Hugo, while supposedly a nice guy, sounds thin as hell.
Can't believe JDK suggested him for Journey.

Others might should translate that sentiment to Pineda as well.

[Gideon]

If you've seen Hugo live then fine, if you haven't, hold your decision until you have please. The guy is fucking awesome live.

Can't understand how anyone would prefer Hugo over a detuned Arnel.
At least Arnel has power behind the pipes.
Hugo, while supposedly a nice guy, sounds thin as hell.
Can't believe JDK suggested him for Journey.

Others might should translate that sentiment to Pineda as well.

Point for Rick.

Aaron, like I told you on another thread, I don't understand why you put so much stock in the exact pitch or exactly why you seem so angry ("Fuck 'em," "Fag boy," ect.). Perry sang these songs on a constant basis for less than nine years when he was younger than Pineda; for the Bill Graham Memorial and the FtLoSM tour, he 'detuned' because the catalogue is clearly that difficult and he couldn't quite tackle it the way he used to given the fact that he was getting older. Augeri had notorious pitch problems live, visible in the countless bootlegs and videos available. Arnel is starting out tackling the culmination of Perry's work; the setlist with diverse pitch changes and frequent alterations in terms of range, power, and control. He's over forty years old and is quite simply Journey's last shot for success; they clearly don't want what happened to Perry and Augeri to happen to their last meal ticket. The bottom line is that this catalogue is monstrous and not even the master himself could take it on in the end. Had they 'detuned' sooner, Perry may still be with us today.

It's the right decision to make.

[annie89509]

What is this stipulation about "3 days off between concerts?" I have only seen this info on posts lately. Where is the source of this info?

[Aaron]

I'm not angry dude, I'm just not a puss and call them like I see them. I put so much stock in the exact pitch because it significantly changes the vibe from a song. If you can't tell the difference, then great, spend your money and go see them. I can tell the difference and I won't, thanks. It's a matter of personal taste and opinion. I reckon Neal's guitar sounds just like Mark Tremonti's too (E vs drop D tune)?

One thing we do agree on is detuning for Steve Perry. I would tolerate that because Steve is the absolute best and created this music we love. I would make an exception because Perry is the best, period. However, I'm not on page of detuning for a replacement singer that can't cut it after a year of touring. Sorry, if you're running with a replacement, it better sound like it should. If Arnel can't do the job then find someone that can. Detuning is the wrong decision to make for a replacement singer. The "legacy sound" detuned a half step ... ha, what a bunch of plonkers.

Journey should have thought about this when selecting their next guy anyhow. They should have been looking for a mid 20's kid that can do it for years to come. They might have sucked in some new kids as fans too.

If you've seen Hugo live then fine, if you haven't, hold your decision until you have please. The guy is fucking awesome live.

Can't understand how anyone would prefer Hugo over a detuned Arnel.
At least Arnel has power behind the pipes.
Hugo, while supposedly a nice guy, sounds thin as hell.
Can't believe JDK suggested him for Journey.

Others might should translate that sentiment to Pineda as well.

Point for Rick.

Aaron, like I told you on another thread, I don't understand why you put so much stock in the exact pitch or exactly why you seem so angry ("Fuck 'em," "Fag boy," ect.). Perry sang these songs on a constant basis for less than nine years when he was younger than Pineda; for the Bill Graham Memorial and the FtLoSM tour, he 'detuned' because the catalogue is clearly that difficult and he couldn't quite tackle it the way he used to given the fact that he was getting older. Augeri had notorious pitch problems live, visible in the countless bootlegs and videos available. Arnel is starting out tackling the culmination of Perry's work; the setlist with diverse pitch changes and frequent alterations in terms of range, power, and control. He's over forty years old and is quite simply Journey's last shot for success; they clearly don't want what happened to Perry and Augeri to happen to their last meal ticket. The bottom line is that this catalogue is monstrous and not even the master himself could take it on in the end. Had they 'detuned' sooner, Perry may still be with us today.

It's the right decision to make.

[Ehwmatt]

I'm not angry dude, I'm just not a puss and call them like I see them. I put so much stock in the exact pitch because it significantly changes the vibe from a song. If you can't tell the difference, then great, spend your money and go see them. I can tell the difference and I won't, thanks. It's a matter of personal taste and opinion. I reckon Neal's guitar sounds just like Mark Tremonti's too (E vs drop D tune)?

One thing we do agree on is detuning for Steve Perry. I would tolerate that because Steve is the absolute best and created this music we love. I would make an exception because Perry is the best, period. However, I'm not on page of detuning for a replacement singer that can't cut it after a year of touring. Sorry, if you're running with a replacement, it better sound like it should. If Arnel can't do the job then find someone that can. Detuning is the wrong decision to make for a replacement singer. The "legacy sound" detuned a half step ... ha, what a bunch of plonkers.

Journey should have thought about this when selecting their next guy anyhow. They should have been looking for a mid 20's kid that can do it for years to come. They might have sucked in some new kids as fans too.

I don't think the detuning deflates ALL of the songs. Some of them definitely seem to suffer, at least on Youtube. Anyway, I understand why you don't wanna hear it but I mean... if I were there with a nice live loud Schon guitar and all that shit I doubt it'd bother me. I'd definitely notice it though. Some songs probably wouldn't work too well... NWA is the one that really seems to lose a lot of steam. The riff sounds flubby and when Neal's intro lead comes in it just doesn't "soar" in Eb.

[Gideon]

One thing we do agree on is detuning for Steve Perry. I would tolerate that because Steve is the absolute best and created this music we love. I would make an exception because Perry is the best, period. However, I'm not on page of detuning for a replacement singer that can't cut it after a year of touring. Sorry, if you're running with a replacement, it better sound like it should. If Arnel can't do the job then find someone that can. Detuning is the wrong decision to make for a replacement singer. The "legacy sound" detuned a half step ... ha, what a bunch of plonkers.

Actually, this is where we disagree. You gave me your opinion, so if you don't mind too much, I'd like to offer my own.

Steve Perry is my favorite singer of all time and truly one of the very best in history, objectively. He was a vocalist par excellence all around on all fronts: phrasing, range, power, control, and even stamina. Because he did give it his all, he crafted the foundation for a catalogue of songs that simply require the singer's absolute A-game every night to do them justice. As he aged and due to irresponsible touring (not necessarily his fault, but those of his managers), his technical abilities began to dwindle and fade. Had the management or Perry himself the foresight to suggest taking it easy or detune, he still might be around singing his ass off today.

Now where we differ is that you, in your own words, are "not a puss and call them when [you] see them." I consider the same of myself, actually. The key difference is that not even the great Steve Perry is immune to my criticism. Because he was such a powerhouse vocalist, he is naturally critiqued according to a high set of standards -- standards that do not adjust themselves simply because he is the great Steve Perry. If he gives a shitty performance, I am just as harsh in my critique of him as I am with any other singer on the planet. Perhaps even moreso because he was the best. And we [should, anyways] always expect the best from... er... the best. Perry himself clearly agrees with me, as we've all discussed how much of a perfectionist he was when it came to singing.

Looking at it objectively, Arnel Pineda is tackling a catalogue that eventually overcame the man whom it was crafted around. More importantly, he was older than that man himself and (as I recall) has had suffered from medical complications related to his voice in the past, if Wikipedia is to be trusted. These are key issues that Perry never really had to deal with. The band and/or its management is taking precautions to ensure that this shit doesn't happen thrice, given the same thing happened to Augeri.

So, I guess what I mean is that I'm probably even less of a puss and quicker to call it when I see it than you yourself are.

I personally don't think the half step makes much a difference, given that Perry has done the same thing. The performances are still great. But I'm not a musician and so that's probably why it doesn't stick out as much.

The bottom line? It's your money and you spend it the way you want to.

[verslibre]

Threads like these only reinforce the notion that Journey is its own best tribute band.

[Maui Tom]

Like we need a thread cuz you don't wanna go?

[Jana]

What is this stipulation about "3 days off between concerts?" I have only seen this info on posts lately. Where is the source of this info?

No, I think they're were talking about no three shows in a row in posts on here. But I don't know if that's right. The promoter said something about a stipulation. They had two concerts set on other islands in Hawaii at the end of the week. At the beginning of the Hawaiian tour one day in Honolulu. It sold out in two hours. They added another. It sold out in two hours. In order to add a third, the promoter said they needed to change the day of one of the later concerts due to a stipulation in the contract.

I don't know what that stipulation is, whether it's a no three day in a row clause or maybe something regarding five concerts in a week how they're spaced out. Maybe somebody else on here knows more.

[Frontiers65]

I am glad that I got to see Perry with the band, and I have seen Augeri, and Perry on his solo tour here in Seattle. The thing is that this is still Journey and if you love the music go see em! I missed them last year cause money was tight, but hope to see them in the future even if it is toned down. We all know that the vocals are harsh on the singers.

[texafana]

i'm coming clean....

i don't know if i could tell something was detuned. is this the "1/2 step down" thing? a lower key so the singer doesn't have to strain? did they do this before? with jeff or steve a or even perry? i haven't seen them with arnel and don't have any plans to, a free ticket might change that tho . seriously curious here. explain in simple terms, please.

It's pretty simple, the guys in his 40's! Tune the song down so it's somewhat easier to sing. Should have done that with Steve A and things might be different right now. I still prefer Arnel though.

[Blueskies]

One thing we do agree on is detuning for Steve Perry. I would tolerate that because Steve is the absolute best and created this music we love. I would make an exception because Perry is the best, period. However, I'm not on page of detuning for a replacement singer that can't cut it after a year of touring. Sorry, if you're running with a replacement, it better sound like it should. If Arnel can't do the job then find someone that can. Detuning is the wrong decision to make for a replacement singer. The "legacy sound" detuned a half step ... ha, what a bunch of plonkers.

Actually, this is where we disagree. You gave me your opinion, so if you don't mind too much, I'd like to offer my own.

Steve Perry is my favorite singer of all time and truly one of the very best in history, objectively. He was a vocalist par excellence all around on all fronts: phrasing, range, power, control, and even stamina. Because he did give it his all, he crafted the foundation for a catalogue of songs that simply require the singer's absolute A-game every night to do them justice. As he aged and due to irresponsible touring (not necessarily his fault, but those of his managers), his technical abilities began to dwindle and fade. Had the management or Perry himself the foresight to suggest taking it easy or detune, he still might be around singing his ass off today.

Now where we differ is that you, in your own words, are "not a puss and call them when [you] see them." I consider the same of myself, actually. The key difference is that not even the great Steve Perry is immune to my criticism. Because he was such a powerhouse vocalist, he is naturally critiqued according to a high set of standards -- standards that do not adjust themselves simply because he is the great Steve Perry. If he gives a shitty performance, I am just as harsh in my critique of him as I am with any other singer on the planet. Perhaps even moreso because he was the best. And we [should, anyways] always expect the best from... er... the best. Perry himself clearly agrees with me, as we've all discussed how much of a perfectionist he was when it came to singing.

Looking at it objectively, Arnel Pineda is tackling a catalogue that eventually overcame the man whom it was crafted around. More importantly, he was older than that man himself and (as I recall) has had suffered from medical complications related to his voice in the past, if Wikipedia is to be trusted. These are key issues that Perry never really had to deal with. The band and/or its management is taking precautions to ensure that this shit doesn't happen thrice, given the same thing happened to Augeri.

So, I guess what I mean is that I'm probably even less of a puss and quicker to call it when I see it than you yourself are.

I personally don't think the half step makes much a difference, given that Perry has done the same thing. The performances are still great. But I'm not a musician and so that's probably why it doesn't stick out as much.

The bottom line? It's your money and you spend it the way you want to.

Giddy, I'm sorry but there is a clear contradiction in what you say in one paragraph and then another....when you say you are as harsh on Espee as you are "any" other singer in your critique ...yet you go on to make excuses for Arnel. You seem to hold Espee to a standard beyond human....yet you are constantly making excuses for Arnel as you have here. I have yet to read where you have been as " harsh " with any criticisms of Arnel as you are towards "any" other singer. Your bias is showing too much.

[Gideon]

Giddy, I'm sorry but there is a clear contradiction in what you say in one paragraph and then another....

No, there isn't.

when you say you are as harsh on Espee as you are "any" other singer in your critique ...yet you go on to make excuses for Arnel.

Excuses? LOL. No. That's not it at all. Pointing out that Arnel is tackling this setlist at an age much older than Perry was when Perry did the same thing is not an excuse. It's putting the situation into context as to why they should 'detune'.

You seem to hold Espee to a standard beyond human....

No, I don't. And I'm curious as to what in this thread makes you think as much.

yet you are constantly making excuses for Arnel as you have here.

Evidence?

I have yet to read where you have been as " harsh " with any criticisms of Arnel as you are towards "any" other singer.

Try the Superbowl threads and the reaming I gave him for his inept solo tour in Manila.

Your bias is showing too much.

It really isn't. And I would strongly suggest learning the difference between providing a context and making excuses, since I haven't "excused" any crappy performance from Arnel... ever. Nor have I done so here. In fact, if you paid attention, I said that Perry himself should have detuned for the same reason.

[ttango1]

Just out of interest. Why would they do a casino show if it sucks? Do they get paid to play?

Yeah they are actually easy money. They playing 2 nights? I would assume so, free food and rooms, and the Casino pays well, but my point is the crowd is not really die hard fans. Many tickets given away to gamblers who could take em or leave em. IMO, lifeless.

Some of us here on this board saw them 3 years ago in Atlantic City, NJ, and it holds about 2,000 of which maybe 800 showed and most were in the lobby getting drinks. It sucked.

Yep 2 nights. Oh well. too late now. tickets aren't on sale yet but flights and accommodation booked. We'll have fun.

----------------
Now playing: Toto - Pamela

I'm planning on going. Pala has an events center that holds 2400 peeps. They also can setup a stage outdoors and call it the Pala Starlight Theatre. I saw Rick Springfield at Pala and he literally walked out into the crowd and that was kinda cool.
Who knows Duncan. As one of the San Diego locals...I could see you there.

RD...your opinions are well known. While I may not agree, this America...ain't it great that you can spout opinions and a Filipino from Olongapo can help keep the Journey legacy alive? I was at the Pechanga Concert in Temecula, the last date in California for the past tour and dude, no lifeless drunks were in the crowd and the place was sold out. You could have answered your take with the following.."Atlantic City." Nuff said.

Oh and Gideon... as they say on the streets..."Game recognizes game." You got some serious game.

[Blueskies]

Giddy, I'm sorry but there is a clear contradiction in what you say in one paragraph and then another....

No, there isn't.

when you say you are as harsh on Espee as you are "any" other singer in your critique ...yet you go on to make excuses for Arnel.

Excuses? LOL. No. That's not it at all. Pointing out that Arnel is tackling this setlist at an age much older than Perry was when Perry did the same thing is not an excuse. It's putting the situation into context as to why they should 'detune'.

You seem to hold Espee to a standard beyond human....

No, I don't. And I'm curious as to what in this thread makes you think as much.

yet you are constantly making excuses for Arnel as you have here.

Evidence?

I have yet to read where you have been as " harsh " with any criticisms of Arnel as you are towards "any" other singer.

Try the Superbowl threads and the reaming I gave him for his inept solo tour in Manila.

Your bias is showing too much.

It really isn't. And I would strongly suggest learning the difference between providing a context and making excuses, since I haven't "excused" any crappy performance from Arnel... ever. Nor have I done so here. In fact, if you paid attention, I said that Perry himself should have detuned for the same reason.

Maybe you should review your post to see why I would come to those conclusions. You said you hold Perry to a higher standard than anyone because the best should always be at their best....thats why I said you are holding him to a standard beyond human. All people all fallable and make mistakes and all singers don't always have a perfect performance...even the best....so you don't seem to give him much leway for being as human as the rest of us.

You do contradict yourself when you say that you are just as harshly critical of all singers...then in the next paragraph you make nothing but excuses for Arnel. " He's "older", " the catalog is challenging" " he's had medical complications related to his voice" . See... you give him tons of leway when you don't very much with Perry. Perry was even older than Arnel when he last sang with Journey....I'm not sure how old he was when he last toured with them but I think he was around the same age as AP now is wasn't he? Maybe only a little younger...or a little older even? He sang the same challenging catalog of songs when he toured...with many more tour dates. He also appearently had a problem with his vocal cords as well.

The band didn't lower anything and no one lessened the tour schedule to take precautions for him either like they are now doing with AP.
So, what I am pointing out is that you are very " harshly" critical of Espee...and don't seem to give him very much leway at all for having had to deal with the same kinds of things AP has had to..and Espee had a much more demanding tour schedule.
I think AP would agree with that.

[Duncan]

If you've seen Hugo live then fine, if you haven't, hold your decision until you have please. The guy is fucking awesome live.

Can't understand how anyone would prefer Hugo over a detuned Arnel.
At least Arnel has power behind the pipes.
Hugo, while supposedly a nice guy, sounds thin as hell.
Can't believe JDK suggested him for Journey.

that he is. even with a bad cold at Firefest.

He was terrible at Firefest and he knows it.


----------------
Now playing: Thin Lizzy - Remembering Part 1

[Red13JoePa]

Where did this "news" of "downtuning" come from?
See it passed around here anymore like it's gospel.

[Melissa]

Nope, I don't have the new Hardline, is it worth a listen?
]

it is! Johnny will be interviewed on Steve Price tomorrow. 12pm CST. 6pm in the UK.

email questions and requests. studio@arfm.co.uk

it is far from boring. get it. Melly. Click on the cd cover on the MR front page and follow the link at the bottom to Frontiers.

oops. hijack.

pardon

I will take a listen! I loved Hardline back in their more popular days

[jrnychick]

I doubt I'll be going to any shows this year. I'm starting a new job in a week, and I'll have 3 months of no days off to begin with. I don't think they would be too happy about me leaving early for a concert. If there's a show close by on a weekend, I may consider it. If they're playing in freaking Tinley Park again, forget it. I'm not willing to make that long drive to a crappy venue.