President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[treetopovskaya]

bs...

you call me a hypocrite while you on the other hand come to defend tcn & dean who have said far worse to people here. you seem to have no problem telling people how to behave yet those 2 get a free card? whatever. now go look up the things tnc said to barb.

[treetopovskaya]

i changed my mind. if it was my job to keep the citizens of this country safe i would be able to dunk a head in water... or shoot some pirates. if that was what i was trained to do. so i guess i am no longer a hypo?

[The_Noble_Cause]

bs...

you call me a hypocrite while you on the other hand come to defend tcn & dean who have said far worse to people here. you seem to have no problem telling people how to behave yet those 2 get a free card? whatever. now go look up the things tnc said to barb.

You are the very definition of hypocrite.
You want to slime people as "libfreaks" in one breath, and then cry foul over someone elses' salty grown up language in the next.

[Blueskies]

where did i insult you? by calling you post "out there"? they were which made it difficult to reply to & i tried. you took what i said & twisted it around. i still don't get how tyson/holyfield fit in. that analogy for me was "out there". that was hardly an insult... compared to what others say... and you seem not to take issues with that... weird.

Did I insult her at all in the discussion before she ended with an insult thrown my way? Nope. So whats your point?

treetopovskaya
John Kalodner: John Kalodner

Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 3003
Location: the ponda

"i am laughing at you right now. really. you really are just so lame... & phyl... i didn't reply to her last post (& i really tried!) cause she is just so out there i don't even know where to begin. "




See...^...you are the one twisting....you didn't say my POST was " out there"...you said "she is" .....big difference.

Tyson/Holyfeld= Tyson resorted to dirty fighting by trying to bite someones ear off... a barbaric and desperate act done when losing.
Torture= a barbaric act ...dirty fighting... an act of desperation to try to get what you want.
Point= We should not resort to acts of barbarism and desperation or we will lose in the end by it. Lose our moral high ground that we use as justification for fighting those we do...also lose respect and our standing in the world.

Now, I don't know how I could make it any simpler to understand then that. If you still can't understand it then maybe you should get someone else to explain how the analogy fits as an example. Even if you didn't understand the analogy I explained my stance in many other ways you could have attempted to refute.

I haven't taken " issue" with anyone else in this thread because no one else has insulted me.

[Rockindeano]

dean you defend that tnc but you don't tell him to back off when he goes after people you call "friends". he has called me names... even went after indyjoe when she came in here to defend me... wtf is that... indyjoe is one of the sweetest people you'll ever meet. where were you then? he has said some vile thing to barb... something about custard... so disgusting. it shows weakness. he can't debate... & when he feels like he's on the losing end he has to throw insults... & personal attacks. throw race cards... that doesn't work on me.

stu will have to stand behind me to spit in his face... i won't spit tho... i'll bring my salei gloves & give him a real good bitch slap.

next time i see you you'll get one too. asshole.

What a bullshit post this is. You should be ashamed of yourse;f for even thinking of writing this garbage.

I am so sorry I didn't monitor this thread 24/7 and "defend" friends? Hey, it's an argument on politics, and if you want to hinge "friends" on a debate, than cancel me out.

Again, complete and utter garbage post. You should delete it, it's that bad.

[Rockindeano]

Treetop is going off the rails on a crazy train...literally.

[treetopovskaya]

i was referring to your post as being out there.

bs... i explained until i am blue in the face that i only support harsh interrogations if it's needed... if they have to use it to get info that could very well keep us from being attacked again. it's not about winning or losing... it's about our gov sometimes having to do things to keep it's people safe.

so your analogy doesn't really make sense. sorry. for me it was... WAY out there.

where did i insult you? by calling you post "out there"? they were which made it difficult to reply to & i tried. you took what i said & twisted it around. i still don't get how tyson/holyfield fit in. that analogy for me was "out there". that was hardly an insult... compared to what others say... and you seem not to take issues with that... weird.

Did I insult her at all in the discussion before she ended with an insult thrown my way? Nope. So whats your point?

treetopovskaya
John Kalodner: John Kalodner

Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 3003
Location: the ponda

TY's ( your) post:
"i am laughing at you right now. really. you really are just so lame... & phyl... i didn't reply to her last post (& i really tried!) cause she is just so out there i don't even know where to begin. "


You are twisting....you didn't my post was " out there"...you said she is .....big difference.

Tyson/Holyfeld= Tyson resorted to dirty fighting by trying to bite someone's ear off... a barbaric and desperate act done when losing.
Torture= a barbaric act ...dirty fighting... an act of desperation to try to get what you want.
Point= We should not resort to acts of barbarism and desperation or we will lose in the end by it. Lose our moral highground that we use as justification for fighting those we do...also lose respect and our standing in the world.

Now, is that simplified enough for you to see the point? If you still can't then maybe you should get someone else to explain how the analogy fits as an example. Even if you didn't understand the analogy I explained my stance in many other ways you could have attempted to refute.

I haven't taken " issue" with anyone else in this thread because no one else has insulted me.

[Deacon]

dean you defend that tnc but you don't tell him to back off when he goes after people you call "friends". he has called me names... even went after indyjoe when she came in here to defend me... wtf is that... indyjoe is one of the sweetest people you'll ever meet. where were you then? he has said some vile thing to barb... something about custard... so disgusting. it shows weakness. he can't debate... & when he feels like he's on the losing end he has to throw insults... & personal attacks. throw race cards... that doesn't work on me.

stu will have to stand behind me to spit in his face... i won't spit tho... i'll bring my salei gloves & give him a real good bitch slap.

next time i see you you'll get one too. asshole.

What a bullshit post this is. You should be ashamed of yourse;f for even thinking of writing this garbage.

I am so sorry I didn't monitor this thread 24/7 and "defend" friends? Hey, it's an argument on politics, and if you want to hinge "friends" on a debate, than cancel me out.

Again, complete and utter garbage post. You should delete it, it's that bad.

Maybe it would be constructive if you would critique the entirety of the post rather than simply focusing on one part?

[Blueskies]

bs...

you call me a hypocrite while you on the other hand come to defend tcn & dean who have said far worse to people here. you seem to have no problem telling people how to behave yet those 2 get a free card? whatever. now go look up the things tnc said to barb.

That is your perception problem. I didn't come in and try to "defend" anyone. I only entered a debate with my own opinions on the topic being discussed. I was not asked to enter this discussion by anyone nor did I try to defend anyone else..I simply spoke for myself. I don't read every single post..don't even read every thread...and I don't read this board 24/7 to know every single thing everyone says.

If I was going to spend all my time constantly " telling others how to behave" , as you put it...I would get nothing else done. There are TON'S of posts written by MANY people that I could say something to but I don't. What the heck? Should I get into a battle royal every frickin' day? I am not a moderator here...I just give my opinions on things sometimes when a subject comes up as I'm reading. I don't target anyone...I don't choose "sides"...I simply state my opinions occasionally like everyone else does.....and many times I don't.
Thats a mis-perception too..that I try to " tell people how to behave".....people can behave however they want...they just have to expect that sometimes someone may disagree with them on their behavior....they can listen to my opinion or not...thats up to them.

Why are you singling me out to go reprimand everyone? If you have a problem with anything anyone has said then you need to tell them yourself.

[Blueskies]

i was referring to your post as being out there.

bs... i explained until i am blue in the face that i only support harsh interrogations if it's needed... if they have to use it to get info that could very well keep us from being attacked again. it's not about winning or losing... it's about our gov sometimes having to do things to keep it's people safe.

so your analogy doesn't really make sense. sorry. for me it was... WAY out there.

where did i insult you? by calling you post "out there"? they were which made it difficult to reply to & i tried. you took what i said & twisted it around. i still don't get how tyson/holyfield fit in. that analogy for me was "out there". that was hardly an insult... compared to what others say... and you seem not to take issues with that... weird.

Did I insult her at all in the discussion before she ended with an insult thrown my way? Nope. So whats your point?

treetopovskaya
John Kalodner: John Kalodner

Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 3003
Location: the ponda

TY's ( your) post:
"i am laughing at you right now. really. you really are just so lame... & phyl... i didn't reply to her last post (& i really tried!) cause she is just so out there i don't even know where to begin. "


You are twisting....you didn't my post was " out there"...you said she is .....big difference.

Tyson/Holyfeld= Tyson resorted to dirty fighting by trying to bite someone's ear off... a barbaric and desperate act done when losing.
Torture= a barbaric act ...dirty fighting... an act of desperation to try to get what you want.
Point= We should not resort to acts of barbarism and desperation or we will lose in the end by it. Lose our moral highground that we use as justification for fighting those we do...also lose respect and our standing in the world.

Now, is that simplified enough for you to see the point? If you still can't then maybe you should get someone else to explain how the analogy fits as an example. Even if you didn't understand the analogy I explained my stance in many other ways you could have attempted to refute.

I haven't taken " issue" with anyone else in this thread because no one else has insulted me.

You can clean it up a bit and define it as " harsh interrogations" all you want but practices like water-boarding are flat out torture.....a barbaric practice....there is no sugar coating it. How in the world is water-boarding a guy " keeping our country safe"? There are ways of getting info with intelligence...we shouldn't have to resort to acts of barbarism. We shouldn't do the same kinds of things that our enemies are doing...things they do that we are supposedly fighting with them for doing.

Torture= done to instill fear, inflict damage and pain to force compliance = acts of terrorists.
Are we to be the terrorists or are we suppossed to be fighting them , their mentality, their barbaric practices?
If we do the same we will be considered the same.

[donnaplease]

michelle obama's comment was misunderstood. i completely support what she said and understood the sentiment. it is one of those things when quoted loses it's message. i won't bother debating it at this point, been there, done that.

as for the patriotism of presidnet obama, not worth debating. you either see it or you don't. jana said it best- we can question bush's patriotism over some of his actions.

How do you know it was misunderstood? You can't convince me of that any more than I can convince you otherwise. Our individual experiences lend to what we believe. And that's ok.

As for Bush, I've seen him called much worse than unpatriotic here.

[donnaplease]

Quote? You referenced my 'quote', so why are you asking for it again? I question his patriotism because I do believe he doesn't always act in the best interest of our country. MY beliefs. They're not yours, I get that. It's not gonna stop me from sharing what I believe to be true though.

Either provide a quote or a link to these so-called anti-American comments you keep referencing, or cut the shit.
To date, the only ones provided have been taken out of context and ignore the portions where Obama rejected attitudes on both sides of the Atlantic.

I could provide links and quotes till the cows come home and it wouldn't make one iota of difference. You would simply say they were taken out of context or just flat-out wrong. So I won't bother.

I can't quote my feelings though, TNC, and that's exactly what they are, based on the various things I've seen and read. What you so lovingly refer to as 'shit'.

[Rockindeano]

As for Bush, I've seen him called much worse than unpatriotic here.

All deserved I might add. Donna, were you not living in the last eight years? Do you not know what he hath done to the USA and the world? Liar, deceiver, slime, scumbag, I can go on if you like,. he earned all those names and I would have no problem saying it to his face.

[Jana]

As for Bush, I've seen him called much worse than unpatriotic here.

All deserved I might add. Donna, were you not living in the last eight years? Do you not know what he hath done to the USA and the world? Liar, deceiver, slime, scumbag, I can go on if you like,. he earned all those names and I would have no problem saying it to his face.

But, no matter what, Deano, Bush's patriotism isn't questioned, unlike Obama's.

[donnaplease]

As for Bush, I've seen him called much worse than unpatriotic here.

All deserved I might add. Donna, were you not living in the last eight years? Do you not know what he hath done to the USA and the world? Liar, deceiver, slime, scumbag, I can go on if you like,. he earned all those names and I would have no problem saying it to his face.

I rest my case. Man, that was easy.

[G.I.Jim]

As for Bush, I've seen him called much worse than unpatriotic here.

All deserved I might add. Donna, were you not living in the last eight years? Do you not know what he hath done to the USA and the world? Liar, deceiver, slime, scumbag, I can go on if you like,. he earned all those names and I would have no problem saying it to his face.

Bush...the person who knew ALL of his Secret Service AND their family members by name and whom he cooked for at his ranch on a regular basis? Not saying he didn't make mistakes, but to me you can judge a persons character by the way they treat others. He served them, AND his country. He fully admitted to trying cocaine, and several of his past mistakes.

Clinton....(Hillary anyways) who would not allow eye contact from the Secret Service agents because they were "beneath her". Bill Clinton on the other hand was a draft dodger who ran to Canada, smoked pot, and lied about it with his "I didn't inhale" comment....complete bullshit! He also had an affair and made the entire country look like idiots to the rest of the world with his "Can you define sexual relations?" comments. And THIS is your hero? What a complete and utter joke. Give me some facts or proof of Bush intentionally lying...

As for living under Bush for the last 8 years...I have, and it's been pretty damn good! They've stopped many attacks before they happened on American soil, crime was on the decline (until just recently taking a sharp spike), and I could afford to put food on the table for my family.

I don't know enough about your president (love all of his nominees! ) to make too harsh of a judgement, but I keep hearing him say over and over how the Bush administration left us with a HUGE deficit.....I don't recall Bush spending anywhere NEAR what he has done with the stimulus package. Why bash Bush, yet make matters 10 times worse??? Our kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids (feel free to add a few more) will NEVER be able to repay that debt. Seems pretty damn retarded to me!

[KDOUBLEU]

As for Bush, I've seen him called much worse than unpatriotic here.

All deserved I might add. Donna, were you not living in the last eight years? Do you not know what he hath done to the USA and the world? Liar, deceiver, slime, scumbag, I can go on if you like,. he earned all those names and I would have no problem saying it to his face.

Bush...the person who knew ALL of his Secret Service AND their family members by name and whom he cooked for at his ranch on a regular basis? Not saying he didn't make mistakes, but to me you can judge a persons character by the way they treat others. He served them, AND his country. He fully admitted to trying cocaine, and several of his past mistakes.

Clinton....(Hillary anyways) who would not allow eye contact from the Secret Service agents because they were "beneath her". Bill Clinton on the other hand was a draft dodger who ran to Canada, smoked pot, and lied about it with his "I didn't inhale" comment....complete bullshit! He also had an affair and made the entire country look like idiots to the rest of the world with his "Can you define sexual relations?" comments. And THIS is your hero? What a complete and utter joke. Give me some facts or proof of Bush intentionally lying...

As for living under Bush for the last 8 years...I have, and it's been pretty damn good! They've stopped many attacks before they happened on American soil, crime was on the decline (until just recently taking a sharp spike), and I could afford to put food on the table for my family.

I don't know enough about your president (love all of his nominees! ) to make too harsh of a judgement, but I keep hearing him say over and over how the Bush administration left us with a HUGE deficit.....I don't recall Bush spending anywhere NEAR what he has done with the stimulus package. Why bash Bush, yet make matters 10 times worse??? Our kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids (feel free to add a few more) will NEVER be able to repay that debt. Seems pretty damn retarded to me!

Thanks for that Jim.

[The_Noble_Cause]

He fully admitted to trying cocaine

Link?
As far as I know Bush never mentioned cocaine use.

He also had an affair and made the entire country look like idiots to the rest of the world with his "Can you define sexual relations?" comments. And THIS is your hero?

Great.
And Eleanor Roosevelt was a known box muncher.
Presidents throughout history have gotten action on the side, nobody cared until the GOP merged with the sexophobic religious right.

Give me some facts or proof of Bush intentionally lying...

How about this one for starters...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6LtL9lCTRA

They've stopped many attacks before they happened on American soil

When you throw the constitution under the bus, it's pretty easy to do anything.
As a soldier, didn't you swear to uphold an oath?
When the dust settles, Bush will be held in the same historical contempt as Woodrow Wilson, John Adams, and Nixon - if he's isn't already.

I don't know enough about your president (love all of his nominees! ) to make too harsh of a judgement, but I keep hearing him say over and over how the Bush administration left us with a HUGE deficit.....I don't recall Bush spending anywhere NEAR what he has done with the stimulus package.

Did Bush include the costs of his wars on the books like Obama is doing?

Why bash Bush, yet make matters 10 times worse???

Yes, let's cut spending in a recession when the problem is there's no spending. Brilliant.
At least Obama's budget includes expenditures for things like high speed rail and digitalizing health records that will benefit society at large and possibly cut the defecit.
What does Bush have to show for his era of drunken spendthriftery?

Our kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids (feel free to add a few more) will NEVER be able to repay that debt. Seems pretty damn retarded to me!

Should've teabagged en masse when Bush first took a buzzsaw to the Clinton surplus.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I could provide links and quotes till the cows come home...

Then do so.
Otherwise you're just brainlessly parroting what dropped out Hannity's ass last night.
The fact of the matter is, you can't provide any examples of Obama "falling all over himself apologizing for what he sees as our shortcomings" because it didn't happen.
On his most recent trip abroad, Obama took both sides of Atlantic to task and rejected foreign prejudice outright.
Saying: "..They are not wise. They do not represent the truth. "
The only other instance was his rejection of the Monroe Doctrine at the Summit of the Americas, which, for anyone with a 3rd grade grasp of history, was long deserved.

...and it wouldn't make one iota of difference. You would simply say they were taken out of context or just flat-out wrong. So I won't bother.

This is false, and I have been more than willing to back up ANYTHING I said on here when asked.
When referencing something someone said, is asking for a quote really that much of an unreasonable request?
Either provide a source or, by default, own up to being Rupert Murdoch's intellectual bitch.

[treetopovskaya]

bs...

you call me a hypocrite while you on the other hand come to defend tcn & dean who have said far worse to people here. you seem to have no problem telling people how to behave yet those 2 get a free card? whatever. now go look up the things tnc said to barb.

That is your perception problem. I didn't come in and try to "defend" anyone. I only entered a debate with my own opinions on the topic being discussed. I was not asked to enter this discussion by anyone nor did I try to defend anyone else..I simply spoke for myself. I don't read every single post..don't even read every thread...and I don't read this board 24/7 to know every single thing everyone says.

If I was going to spend all my time constantly " telling others how to behave" , as you put it...I would get nothing else done. There are TON'S of posts written by MANY people that I could say something to but I don't. What the heck? Should I get into a battle royal every frickin' day? I am not a moderator here...I just give my opinions on things sometimes when a subject comes up as I'm reading. I don't target anyone...I don't choose "sides"...I simply state my opinions occasionally like everyone else does.....and many times I don't.
Thats a mis-perception too..that I try to " tell people how to behave".....people can behave however they want...they just have to expect that sometimes someone may disagree with them on their behavior....they can listen to my opinion or not...thats up to them.

Why are you singling me out to go reprimand everyone? If you have a problem with anything anyone has said then you need to tell them yourself.

I can't believe YOU of ALL PEOPLE have the balls to say this to ANYONE else.

Barb,

Thank you for confirming what, up until now, I only feared to be the case.
Your political depths run as shallow as your “anything with a dick” checkbox approach to getting your crotch piledrived.
However, I must admit, the novelty carnival sign in front of your bed which reads, “you must be THIS hung to ride my saggy embittered ass” is pretty nifty.
Whenever did Spencers start selling those?
Speaking of which, would you mind telling me what exactly is Conservative about treating your velvety custard hole like some suped up Jack Lalanne juice machine?

Thanks

Waterboarding -v- death you choose..

It's a bogus argument and one that, like so many here, gives the President cover to act like a King.
If waterboarding is a legit tactic, pull out of the treaties and make it legal.

Ok Mr. Rule of law...those treaties are only binding between the countries that signed them. We will never waterboard, say a Russian, or a Chinese soldier. This subhuman beings that think that killing ALL of us will somehow get them 72 virgins and a better place in Eternity are no signees to these treaties.

They are not soldiers in the army of some country they are fanatics will would cut off your head no matter what you say, and they would do it with no regrets, no feelings of shame, and secure in their moral superiority over you, oh and with no discussion of the nicities of the "rule of law"

You are hopelessly naieve and if they win, you will be one of the first to go, as you are undoubtedly a secularist and don't fit in the world view they espouse.

Convert or die, that is their way.

It is easy for you who have never so much as lifted a finger to serve your country to spout off rhetorical hyperbole about how evil we who have chosen to do so are. The primary role of the government is to PROTECT IT'S PEOPLE, by whatever means neccesary. You and others like you would have us roll over and let the animals win. I pity you, because you don't have the strength of will to acutally stand up and defend yourself, your fellow citizens or your country.

Deano at the very least served, I don't agree with him, but he put himself and his life on the line. You who bask in the freedom provided by people like Dean, and Carl and myself and yet feel it neccesary to tell us how evil we are being should just shut the fuck up once in awhile and enjoy the fact your have your freedom.

You are a contemptable person and should I ever meet you I will spit in your face you coward.

Two points I would like to state in disagreement with your post....

1.) In regards to the torture issue : If you resort to the same kinds of disreputable tactics as your enemies then you are no better then they are and therefore negate your justification for fighting against them in the first place.

2.) To tell TNC that since he hasn't worn a uniform then he has no right to state his opinions on what goes on with his country and the governing of it is a ridiculous argument. Any citizen has a right to form an opinion and be heard. If only those that have served in the military have a right to have an opinion then why aren't they only ones allowed to vote? Why isn't a military service required to be President then? You also lost points in your argument for getting mad enough at someone who disagrees with you to tell them you would " spit in their face" if you met them in person.

imo

phly you are a hypocrite. you weren't even in this thread until this post of yours directed at stu. i'm all for defending someone but not tnc who deserves what he gets... he has it coming to him. now... where were you when he was going after barb? you had to be lurking cause you weren't posting in this thread until just about a week ago. go fig!

[treetopovskaya]

i am laughing at you right now. really. you really are just so lame... & phyl... i didn't reply to her last post (& i really tried!) cause she is just so out there i don't even know where to begin.

TNC...

stop playing the race card. it makes you look weak... your arguments become weak. you have no come back so you have to throw out the old race card.

- Were pictures of Obama decked in Somali garb circulated online to further spread the myth he was a Muslim - yes or no?
- Were quotes of Obama's book doctored to make it seem he sided with the Muslims (quotes that even found their way onto this very forum) - yes or no?
- Was Obama's black church microscopically scrutinized while Palin's Kenyan witch doctor pastor was given a free pass - yes or no?

Answer those questions and then tell me the "hand over the heart" non-scandal isn't another cynical ploy to capitalize on oogedy-boogedy "he's not like us" fears.

you tried that with me & it just doesn't work.

Considering you've never managed to rebuke ANYTHING anyone on here has said, this means nothing.
In fact, I'd say everyone who has responded to you in this thread so far, has decisively kicked your ignorant ass back over the Mason Dixon line.
BlueSkies, especially.
Even if the Republican Party did decide to dust off the Southern Strategy in 2012, you'd be too hickdumb recognize it.

you're the one bringing up obama's skin color... you make it an issue when it's not. weak.

Again, answer my questions.
Any of them.

I'm the one out there? LOL! You are the one on here supporting torture tactics like waterboarding..and being a hypocrite about it saying you personally couldn't do it but you want other people to do it for you. If you support a practice than you should be willing to do it yourself...not expect someone else to do it out of your sight and then you walk away trying to convince yourself that your hands are still clean.
You didn't respond to the points I brought up because you couldn't come up with a coherent, reasoned rebuttal. Then instead of conceeding you lost the debate you instead hurl insults and name call...
makes me think that if someone was in a boxing match with you then you would resort to biting their ear when you're losing too .
I think I'll call you TY now instead of Tree.

so is that the point you're trying to make with you tyson/holyfied analogy? that america "bites off ears" to win a fight we're losing???

that is so far out there... and not even true.

[Blueskies]

bs...

you call me a hypocrite while you on the other hand come to defend tcn & dean who have said far worse to people here. you seem to have no problem telling people how to behave yet those 2 get a free card? whatever. now go look up the things tnc said to barb.

That is your perception problem. I didn't come in and try to "defend" anyone. I only entered a debate with my own opinions on the topic being discussed. I was not asked to enter this discussion by anyone nor did I try to defend anyone else..I simply spoke for myself. I don't read every single post..don't even read every thread...and I don't read this board 24/7 to know every single thing everyone says.

If I was going to spend all my time constantly " telling others how to behave" , as you put it...I would get nothing else done. There are TON'S of posts written by MANY people that I could say something to but I don't. What the heck? Should I get into a battle royal every frickin' day? I am not a moderator here...I just give my opinions on things sometimes when a subject comes up as I'm reading. I don't target anyone...I don't choose "sides"...I simply state my opinions occasionally like everyone else does.....and many times I don't.
Thats a mis-perception too..that I try to " tell people how to behave".....people can behave however they want...they just have to expect that sometimes someone may disagree with them on their behavior....they can listen to my opinion or not...thats up to them.

Why are you singling me out to go reprimand everyone? If you have a problem with anything anyone has said then you need to tell them yourself.

I can't believe YOU of ALL PEOPLE have the balls to say this to ANYONE else.

Barb,

Thank you for confirming what, up until now, I only feared to be the case.
Your political depths run as shallow as your “anything with a dick” checkbox approach to getting your crotch piledrived.
However, I must admit, the novelty carnival sign in front of your bed which reads, “you must be THIS hung to ride my saggy embittered ass” is pretty nifty.
Whenever did Spencers start selling those?
Speaking of which, would you mind telling me what exactly is Conservative about treating your velvety custard hole like some suped up Jack Lalanne juice machine?

Thanks

Waterboarding -v- death you choose..

It's a bogus argument and one that, like so many here, gives the President cover to act like a King.
If waterboarding is a legit tactic, pull out of the treaties and make it legal.

Ok Mr. Rule of law...those treaties are only binding between the countries that signed them. We will never waterboard, say a Russian, or a Chinese soldier. This subhuman beings that think that killing ALL of us will somehow get them 72 virgins and a better place in Eternity are no signees to these treaties.

They are not soldiers in the army of some country they are fanatics will would cut off your head no matter what you say, and they would do it with no regrets, no feelings of shame, and secure in their moral superiority over you, oh and with no discussion of the nicities of the "rule of law"

You are hopelessly naieve and if they win, you will be one of the first to go, as you are undoubtedly a secularist and don't fit in the world view they espouse.

Convert or die, that is their way.

It is easy for you who have never so much as lifted a finger to serve your country to spout off rhetorical hyperbole about how evil we who have chosen to do so are. The primary role of the government is to PROTECT IT'S PEOPLE, by whatever means neccesary. You and others like you would have us roll over and let the animals win. I pity you, because you don't have the strength of will to acutally stand up and defend yourself, your fellow citizens or your country.

Deano at the very least served, I don't agree with him, but he put himself and his life on the line. You who bask in the freedom provided by people like Dean, and Carl and myself and yet feel it neccesary to tell us how evil we are being should just shut the fuck up once in awhile and enjoy the fact your have your freedom.

You are a contemptable person and should I ever meet you I will spit in your face you coward.

Two points I would like to state in disagreement with your post....

1.) In regards to the torture issue : If you resort to the same kinds of disreputable tactics as your enemies then you are no better then they are and therefore negate your justification for fighting against them in the first place.

2.) To tell TNC that since he hasn't worn a uniform then he has no right to state his opinions on what goes on with his country and the governing of it is a ridiculous argument. Any citizen has a right to form an opinion and be heard. If only those that have served in the military have a right to have an opinion then why aren't they only ones allowed to vote? Why isn't a military service required to be President then? You also lost points in your argument for getting mad enough at someone who disagrees with you to tell them you would " spit in their face" if you met them in person.

imo

phly you are a hypocrite. you weren't even in this thread until this post of yours directed at stu. i'm all for defending someone but not tnc who deserves what he gets... he has it coming to him. now... where were you when he was going after barb? you had to be lurking cause you weren't posting in this thread until just about a week ago. go fig!

See, this is why I have rarely made any comment in this thread before....some hurl accusations too much based on their own PERCEPTIONS ...TOO MUCH READING INTO THINGS and then hurling accusations and ascribing motivations of people that isn't there in writing but only what someone projects their own reasons of them doing something! Doesn't make it fact!

I made that comment before debating on a subject....it was not the cause of me entering the debate of a topic I wanted to discuss. If I had read a threat of someone doing something physical to someone if the met them in another thread I would have said something too! In fact I have before...I got onto Madsplash for that same kind of thing. Doesn't matter who it was directed too....I would say something.

Am I in every other thread? Do I read every single post here? Have I read every post in this thread? NO! I clicked on this thread, read and then decided to join in on the topic being discussed because I had my own strongly felt opinion on the subject!
Show me where I was defending TNC on the topic we were discussing??? Where's the proof of your allegations? I was saying something to Stu there, not to try to defend TNC but to comment on the inappropriateness of what Stu said ...regardless of whoever he said it to!

I can click on any dang thread I want and comment on what is being discussed or not. Is this your thread? Did I need your permission to join the discussion? Does it mean that anytime anyone comments in a thread in disagreement with you that they must have some other motivations to do so? Only motivations that you ascribe to them in your mind? Just because you think something doesn't make it true! I think that TNC is perfectly capable of speaking for himself and doesn't need any one's assistance to say what he thinks. How many pages is this thread? Has he needed anyone's " assist" before? " I had to be lurking"???? Lady, you are totally out of line to start throwing out accusations at someone due to what you only THINK! You're just pissed because you couldn't debate me on the subject very well. Get over yourself!

[Blueskies]

i am laughing at you right now. really. you really are just so lame... & phyl... i didn't reply to her last post (& i really tried!) cause she is just so out there i don't even know where to begin.

TNC...

stop playing the race card. it makes you look weak... your arguments become weak. you have no come back so you have to throw out the old race card.

- Were pictures of Obama decked in Somali garb circulated online to further spread the myth he was a Muslim - yes or no?
- Were quotes of Obama's book doctored to make it seem he sided with the Muslims (quotes that even found their way onto this very forum) - yes or no?
- Was Obama's black church microscopically scrutinized while Palin's Kenyan witch doctor pastor was given a free pass - yes or no?

Answer those questions and then tell me the "hand over the heart" non-scandal isn't another cynical ploy to capitalize on oogedy-boogedy "he's not like us" fears.

you tried that with me & it just doesn't work.

Considering you've never managed to rebuke ANYTHING anyone on here has said, this means nothing.
In fact, I'd say everyone who has responded to you in this thread so far, has decisively kicked your ignorant ass back over the Mason Dixon line.
BlueSkies, especially.
Even if the Republican Party did decide to dust off the Southern Strategy in 2012, you'd be too hickdumb recognize it.

you're the one bringing up obama's skin color... you make it an issue when it's not. weak.

Again, answer my questions.
Any of them.

I'm the one out there? LOL! You are the one on here supporting torture tactics like waterboarding..and being a hypocrite about it saying you personally couldn't do it but you want other people to do it for you. If you support a practice than you should be willing to do it yourself...not expect someone else to do it out of your sight and then you walk away trying to convince yourself that your hands are still clean.
You didn't respond to the points I brought up because you couldn't come up with a coherent, reasoned rebuttal. Then instead of conceeding you lost the debate you instead hurl insults and name call...
makes me think that if someone was in a boxing match with you then you would resort to biting their ear when you're losing too .
I think I'll call you TY now instead of Tree.

so is that the point you're trying to make with you tyson/holyfied analogy? that america "bites off ears" to win a fight we're losing???

that is so far out there... and not even true.

You are apparently too thick to get it. Why don't you try to read what is said in totality instead of being so myopic? Maybe you would understand things better if you would. You are the one that is "out there' with your conspiracy theories...your paranoia. You have been going off the rails just because you lost a debate on a topic on a message board. You need to get a grip, and let it go...seriously.

[Lula]

He fully admitted to trying cocaine

Link?
As far as I know Bush never mentioned cocaine use.

He also had an affair and made the entire country look like idiots to the rest of the world with his "Can you define sexual relations?" comments. And THIS is your hero?

Great.
And Eleanor Roosevelt was a known box muncher.
Presidents throughout history have gotten action on the side, nobody cared until the GOP merged with the sexophobic religious right.

Give me some facts or proof of Bush intentionally lying...

How about this one for starters...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6LtL9lCTRA

They've stopped many attacks before they happened on American soil

When you throw the constitution under the bus, it's pretty easy to do anything.
As a soldier, didn't you swear to uphold an oath?
When the dust settles, Bush will be held in the same historical contempt as Woodrow Wilson, John Adams, and Nixon - if he's isn't already.

I don't know enough about your president (love all of his nominees! ) to make too harsh of a judgement, but I keep hearing him say over and over how the Bush administration left us with a HUGE deficit.....I don't recall Bush spending anywhere NEAR what he has done with the stimulus package.

Did Bush include the costs of his wars on the books like Obama is doing?

Why bash Bush, yet make matters 10 times worse???

Yes, let's cut spending in a recession when the problem is there's no spending. Brilliant.
At least Obama's budget includes expenditures for things like high speed rail and digitalizing health records that will benefit society at large and possibly cut the defecit.
What does Bush have to show for his era of drunken spendthriftery?

Our kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids (feel free to add a few more) will NEVER be able to repay that debt. Seems pretty damn retarded to me!

Should've teabagged en masse when Bush first took a buzzsaw to the Clinton surplus.

a note of thanks to noble. i'm glad you are able to come back with factual commentary and responses. and now work is calling.

[lights1961]

is what will make him a 1 term president is going after the Bush administration for the torture debate, whether it was legal or not, or the best interest of the country. Lets say three years from now... this happens... were attacked after hearings take place and policy has been changed...if we learn said attact might have been prevented if we were not at 9/10 thinking... I tell you what... Congress and Obama will go down... just my opinion... Clancy needs to write a novel about this whole issue.

[The_Noble_Cause]

is what will make him a 1 term president is going after the Bush administration for the torture debate, whether it was legal or not, or the best interest of the country.

Thank you for summing up the authoritarian brownshirt mindset of the modern GOP.
The Democrats believe in the nation's founding charter, come war or peace.
You guys just wax patriotic, listen to Toby Keith, and wave the flag as a political prop.

Also, considering a U.S. military memo warned the Pentagon as far back as 2002 that waterboarding was"torture" and resulted in "unreliable information", you have no proof that it was in the best interest of the country. Cheney and Rumsfeld are Nixon holdovers with a lust for executive secrecy that borders on sexual.

Lets say three years from now... this happens... were attacked after hearings take place and policy has been changed...if we learn said attact might have been prevented if we were not at 9/10 thinking... I tell you what... Congress and Obama will go down... just my opinion....

Is that what you guys have been reduced to?
Hedging your electoral chances on dreams of death?
Sick..sick..sick.

[lights1961]

is what will make him a 1 term president is going after the Bush administration for the torture debate, whether it was legal or not, or the best interest of the country.

Thank you for summing up the authoritarian brownshirt mindset of the modern GOP.
The Democrats believe in the nation's founding charter, come war or peace.
You guys just wax patriotic, listen to Toby Keith, and wave the flag as a political prop.

Also, considering a U.S. military memo warned the Pentagon as far back as 2002 that waterboarding was"torture" and resulted in "unreliable information", you have no proof that it was in the best interests of the country. Cheney and Rumsfeld are Nixon holdovers with a lust for executive secrecy that borders on sexual.

Lets say three years from now... this happens... were attacked after hearings take place and policy has been changed...if we learn said attact might have been prevented if we were not at 9/10 thinking... I tell you what... Congress and Obama will go down... just my opinion....

Is that what you guys have been reduced to?
Hedging your electoral chances on dreams of death?
Sick..sick..sick.

not quite idiot (sorry TLC) TWIS TWIST TWIST my thought here... but its what you would have anyone believe...in a strang way...isnt that what your side wanted, a BUSH FAILURE in IRAQ... the more casulaties there were in IRAQ it seemed the left media was as happy as can be reporting the news... just saying...

ALSO just saying... goin back to 9/10 thought process will lead down a dangerous path.



Rick

[The_Noble_Cause]

not quite idiot (sorry TLC) TWIS TWIST TWIST my thought here... but its what you would have anyone believe...in a strang way...isnt that what your side wanted, a BUSH FAILURE in IRAQ...

Nobody openly rooted for soldiers to die in Iraq.
What a horrible thing to say.
The surge was opposed by even many military higher-ups, not just the Democratic base.
Also, with the high priestesses of your party now openly declaring “I hope he fails” as the President battles the three headed hyrdra of two wars and a great depression, you are anything but patriotic.

...the more casulaties there were in IRAQ it seemed the left media was as happy as can be reporting the news... just saying...

You mean the same "left media" that has imposed a virtual media blackout on the recent pulitzer winning story about paid Pentagon propagandists?
Maybe when the Right grows up, and realizes there are forces beyond their sad George Soros/MoveOn/lib media conspiratorial purview, they can begin to address issues that matter again.

[lights1961]

not quite idiot (sorry TLC) TWIS TWIST TWIST my thought here... but its what you would have anyone believe...in a strang way...isnt that what your side wanted, a BUSH FAILURE in IRAQ...

Nobody openly rooted for soldiers to die in Iraq.
What a horrible thing to say.
The surge was opposed by even many military higher-ups, not just the Democratic base.
Also, with the high priestesses of your party now openly declaring “I hope he fails” as the President battles the three headed hyrdra of two wars and a great depression, you are anything but patriotic.

...the more casulaties there were in IRAQ it seemed the left media was as happy as can be reporting the news... just saying...

You mean the same "left media" that has imposed a virtual media blackout on the recent pulitzer winning story about paid Pentagon propagandists?
Maybe when the Right grows up, and realizes there are forces beyond their sad George Soros/MoveOn/lib media conspiratorial purview, they can begin to address issues that matter again.

openly... key word... you guys wanted the whole war to fail... harry reid boasted about it... saying THE WAR IS LOST... look it up...

[The_Noble_Cause]

openly... key word... you guys wanted the whole war to fail... harry reid boasted about it... saying THE WAR IS LOST... look it up...

As if the spilt blood of Democrats didn't seep into the sands over there?
Liberals and sane-Conservatives (Novak, Buchanan, Tucker etc) recognized the war as a bad idea from the start.
Nobody was rooting for more death.
Huge difference.

And if the Conservatives had any rock-ribbed ideals of the their own, they wouldn't have let a Neo-Con administration come to power and fundamentally mutate their movement.