Street Talk VS Raised On Radio

[Since 78]

The success of Bon Jovi and Def Leppard had nothing to do with any supposed shortcomings of Journey. They were just the new generation of bands coming to prominence. Simple as that.

That's not the point, needle dick. The point is that had Notrildamus not hijacked the band that they could have had similar sales. He cost the band millions with the decision to take the "rock" out of what was a rock band. But he wanted to do that, so I guess he accomplished his mission.

Gotta disagree here Dan. Perry did what was smart and brave; He knew the formula is only good so long and on so many guises. Who is going to buy the same songs with different words and titles over and over? Look at TBF, Arrival and Revelaions- same stuff over and over, and, declining sales. ROR out sold all of them combined. Also, take away the Pinoy factor for the latest effort(valid point), and you have a continuous decline from ROR>TBF>Arrival>Revelations.

Part of what SP was doing or trying to do was stay relevant. He knew the same ol same ol was drying up- He wanted to reinvent the band and stay in the forefront. Look at the remaining 80's super bands today; U2, E Street, Madonna...like them or hate them, they all stayed huge, survived Grunge, and still play arenas and stadiums today.

You make a good argument though, but IMO, it's more complicated than what you make it seem.

Making changes is one thing, however going from a rock band to a pop band is different. Also, another difference is the bands you listed have never stopped touring for an extended time. Although, I don't think Perry could have kept it up anyway, I wonder what would have happened.

[portland]

The success of Bon Jovi and Def Leppard had nothing to do with any supposed shortcomings of Journey. They were just the new generation of bands coming to prominence. Simple as that.

That's not the point, needle dick. The point is that had Notrildamus not hijacked the band that they could have had similar sales. He cost the band millions with the decision to take the "rock" out of what was a rock band. But he wanted to do that, so I guess he accomplished his mission.

Gotta disagree here Dan. Perry did what was smart and brave; He knew the formula is only good so long and on so many guises. Who is going to buy the same songs with different words and titles over and over? Look at TBF, Arrival and Revelaions- same stuff over and over, and, declining sales. ROR out sold all of them combined. Also, take away the Pinoy factor for the latest effort(valid point), and you have a continuous decline from ROR>TBF>Arrival>Revelations.

Part of what SP was doing or trying to do was stay relevant. He knew the same ol same ol was drying up- He wanted to reinvent the band and stay in the forefront. Look at the remaining 80's super bands today; U2, E Street, Madonna...like them or hate them, they all stayed huge, survived Grunge, and still play arenas and stadiums today.

You make a good argument though, but IMO, it's more complicated than what you make it seem.

Making changes is one thing, however going from a rock band to a pop band is different. Also, another difference is the bands you listed have never stopped touring for an extended time. Although, I don't think Perry could have kept it up anyway, I wonder what would have happened.

Well one thing that would have happened - there would be some very happy people here

[steveo777]

There are 5 fucktards on here,they should come forward

15 and counting. Asking them to come forward....not gonna happen. I'll bet they are all cowardly lurkers.

[Don]

What are you people babbling about?

[steveo777]

What are you people babbling about?

Your mother.

[Don]

What are you people babbling about?

Your mother.

You don't want to start the mother jokes, especially if you don't know if the mother in question is dead. The forum went down that road before.
On the other hand I've got some great hooker stories from my time in the Philippines if you guys want to hear them.

[Rockindeano]

On the other hand I've got some great hooker stories from my time in the Philippines if you guys want to hear them. :D

Oh fuck yes I do. Let me get a rag and some lotion.

[Rockindeano]

The success of Bon Jovi and Def Leppard had nothing to do with any supposed shortcomings of Journey. They were just the new generation of bands coming to prominence. Simple as that.

That's not the point, needle dick. The point is that had Notrildamus not hijacked the band that they could have had similar sales. He cost the band millions with the decision to take the "rock" out of what was a rock band. But he wanted to do that, so I guess he accomplished his mission.

Gotta disagree here Dan. Perry did what was smart and brave; He knew the formula is only good so long and on so many guises. Who is going to buy the same songs with different words and titles over and over? Look at TBF, Arrival and Revelaions- same stuff over and over, and, declining sales. ROR out sold all of them combined. Also, take away the Pinoy factor for the latest effort(valid point), and you have a continuous decline from ROR>TBF>Arrival>Revelations.

Part of what SP was doing or trying to do was stay relevant. He knew the same ol same ol was drying up- He wanted to reinvent the band and stay in the forefront. Look at the remaining 80's super bands today; U2, E Street, Madonna...like them or hate them, they all stayed huge, survived Grunge, and still play arenas and stadiums today.

You make a good argument though, but IMO, it's more complicated than what you make it seem.

Making changes is one thing, however going from a rock band to a pop band is different. Also, another difference is the bands you listed have never stopped touring for an extended time. Although, I don't think Perry could have kept it up anyway, I wonder what would have happened.

One could argue that they left real rock after Departure and went into "commercial" or cheese rock at Escape. I don't consider Escape rock. I would call it hard pop. Now Frontiers was more "angular" but with the ballads taking the front and center of that record, they IMO, kept the label soft rock or commercial rock. To me, ROR was a logical step, saxophone and all. I think it was a good move and I personally like it, I just wish SP would have handled it better.

[portland]

He was taking the band away from doing the same shit over and over.

I can only assume that you mean selling boatloads of albums and Top 10 hits. Yup, he did do that. I concede the point.

ROR is the most sophisticated Journey album to that date. Only surpassed by TBF.

I learned long ago that "sophisticated" and "mature" are code for "boring" and "failure." ROR is sophisticated and TBF is mature.

Well don't worry we would never use those words to describe you

Why would I care what a dog dick sucking piece of maggot phlegm like you thinks?!?!

So much for the whole respect when posting.........

[Andrew]

He was taking the band away from doing the same shit over and over.

I can only assume that you mean selling boatloads of albums and Top 10 hits. Yup, he did do that. I concede the point.

ROR is the most sophisticated Journey album to that date. Only surpassed by TBF.

I learned long ago that "sophisticated" and "mature" are code for "boring" and "failure." ROR is sophisticated and TBF is mature.

Well don't worry we would never use those words to describe you

Why would I care what a dog dick sucking piece of maggot phlegm like you thinks?!?!

Consider this your one warning. I won't allow this sort of attack again.

[Gideon]

Well don't worry we would never use those words to describe you

This was as unnecessary as the insult that followed it. I realize that you're a big Perry fan, but if you're the type who thinks that the man is flawless and that anyone who disagrees with the hive mind must-perform-fellatio-with-words mentality is someone who must be attacked, you're in for a deeply troubled ride with SJ.

He's entitled to think that ROR and TBF are boring and failures (even though you and I disagree). Argue your case rather than try for banter.

[Gideon]

I voted for ROR, for the record. I felt that Street Talk was a decent solo album, but I didn't enjoy the musical direction and the lack of collaboration from truly accomplished writers and lyricists. ROR wasn't, musically, as great as what had come before and what would come after, but the writing and Perry's vocals were truly amazing. Vocally, it was Journey's best album, in my opinion, with some fantastic harmonies. It also gave us the greatest power ballad ever in "Why Can't This Night Go On Forever." "Positive Touch" is also a favorite of mine; not a fan of the saxophone, though. It could have been easily improved with a Neal solo.

[Ehwmatt]

The success of Bon Jovi and Def Leppard had nothing to do with any supposed shortcomings of Journey. They were just the new generation of bands coming to prominence. Simple as that.

That's not the point, needle dick. The point is that had Notrildamus not hijacked the band that they could have had similar sales. He cost the band millions with the decision to take the "rock" out of what was a rock band. But he wanted to do that, so I guess he accomplished his mission.

Gotta disagree here Dan. Perry did what was smart and brave; He knew the formula is only good so long and on so many guises. Who is going to buy the same songs with different words and titles over and over? Look at TBF, Arrival and Revelaions- same stuff over and over, and, declining sales. ROR out sold all of them combined. Also, take away the Pinoy factor for the latest effort(valid point), and you have a continuous decline from ROR>TBF>Arrival>Revelations.

Part of what SP was doing or trying to do was stay relevant. He knew the same ol same ol was drying up- He wanted to reinvent the band and stay in the forefront. Look at the remaining 80's super bands today; U2, E Street, Madonna...like them or hate them, they all stayed huge, survived Grunge, and still play arenas and stadiums today.

You make a good argument though, but IMO, it's more complicated than what you make it seem.

But at the same time Dean, I look at someone like U2 or Bruce... I don't see/hear that much change in their sound. They just happened to have a core sound and honestly, some visual/cultural/intangible kinda appeal that would transcend the ages, for whatever reason(s). You can say the band truly changed direction for Escape and that's probably at least partially true, but ROR is an unabashed complete departure from Journey's form save for maybe BGTYS, Suzanne, and maybe you can reach for IBAWY if you liken it to After the Fall (kinda the same bluesy groove goin on). I can't speak for Madonna cuz I don't listen to her garbage. I think Madonna has stayed relevant more because she is a pop culture icon for many reasons rather than having some kind of great musical adaptability or grand vision.

And yes, I fully realize that Bruce and U2 have experimented a bit with their sound... U2 had some electronica noodling going on in the late 90s-early 00s and Bruce has fucked around a bit with his folk side, but thats always been an element to him anyway. Anyway, on the whole, their sound/formula remains largely the same, imo. It's not a bad thing, I just don't think they did anything special to "stay relevant" other than Bono's Messiah Complex maybe.

[Ehwmatt]

I voted for ROR, for the record. I felt that Street Talk was a decent solo album, but I didn't enjoy the musical direction and the lack of collaboration from truly accomplished writers and lyricists. ROR wasn't, musically, as great as what had come before and what would come after, but the writing and Perry's vocals were truly amazing. Vocally, it was Journey's best album, in my opinion, with some fantastic harmonies. It also gave us the greatest power ballad ever in "Why Can't This Night Go On Forever." "Positive Touch" is also a favorite of mine; not a fan of the saxophone, though. It could have been easily improved with a Neal solo.

There is a great Neal solo in PT man, what you smokin

[Vladan]

Soto performing I'll Be Alright Without You was something else....just stunning. Because he has that naturally lower rock n soul style that Perry had in that era.

Oh yes, totally forgot about that little number. Soto did that song exceptionally well, also he with Send Her Love, but I'll Be Alright Without You, definitely did so well they even included in their set list? maybe, I'm not sure, but IF they continued to tour with SOTO, I reckon when they re-recorded the classics, there would of been more ROR thrown into the mix, due to SOTO's strong voice. What is SOTO anyway? - as I'm leaning towards that he is a Tenor, with a strong Baritone timbre.

Perry did what was smart and brave; He knew the formula is only good so long and on so many guises. Who is going to buy the same songs with different words and titles over and over? Look at TBF, Arrival and Revelaions- same stuff over and over, and, declining sales.

Part of what SP was doing or trying to do was stay relevant. He knew the same ol same ol was drying up- He wanted to reinvent the band and stay in the forefront. Look at the remaining 80's super bands today; U2, E Street, Madonna...like them or hate them, they all stayed huge, survived Grunge, and still play arenas and stadiums today.
.

Yes Dean, I do agree with you there - I think you hit the nail on the head, because it only makes too much sense, for me - that an accurate assessment.

I voted for ROR, for the record. I felt that Street Talk was a decent solo album, but I didn't enjoy the musical direction and the lack of collaboration from truly accomplished writers and lyricists. ROR wasn't, musically, as great as what had come before and what would come after, but the writing and Perry's vocals were truly amazing. Vocally, it was Journey's best album, in my opinion, with some fantastic harmonies. It also gave us the greatest power ballad ever in "Why Can't This Night Go On Forever." "Positive Touch" is also a favorite of mine; not a fan of the saxophone, though. It could have been easily improved with a Neal solo.

And lastly, I also agree with you too (I must be in a good mood today!) but yes, ROR is a deep and inspirational album. For some reason Positive Touch is very underrated I feel, but lots soul in that song. Personally I would of preferred Schon's guitar more in songs such as Happy To Give, Positive Touch (instead of the Sax), of course Saxophone is nice - but Schon's guitar is a lot nicer.

[Granny]

Street Talk for me...

[Since 78]

The success of Bon Jovi and Def Leppard had nothing to do with any supposed shortcomings of Journey. They were just the new generation of bands coming to prominence. Simple as that.

That's not the point, needle dick. The point is that had Notrildamus not hijacked the band that they could have had similar sales. He cost the band millions with the decision to take the "rock" out of what was a rock band. But he wanted to do that, so I guess he accomplished his mission.

Gotta disagree here Dan. Perry did what was smart and brave; He knew the formula is only good so long and on so many guises. Who is going to buy the same songs with different words and titles over and over? Look at TBF, Arrival and Revelaions- same stuff over and over, and, declining sales. ROR out sold all of them combined. Also, take away the Pinoy factor for the latest effort(valid point), and you have a continuous decline from ROR>TBF>Arrival>Revelations.

Part of what SP was doing or trying to do was stay relevant. He knew the same ol same ol was drying up- He wanted to reinvent the band and stay in the forefront. Look at the remaining 80's super bands today; U2, E Street, Madonna...like them or hate them, they all stayed huge, survived Grunge, and still play arenas and stadiums today.

You make a good argument though, but IMO, it's more complicated than what you make it seem.

Making changes is one thing, however going from a rock band to a pop band is different. Also, another difference is the bands you listed have never stopped touring for an extended time. Although, I don't think Perry could have kept it up anyway, I wonder what would have happened.

One could argue that they left real rock after Departure and went into "commercial" or cheese rock at Escape. I don't consider Escape rock. I would call it hard pop. Now Frontiers was more "angular" but with the ballads taking the front and center of that record, they IMO, kept the label soft rock or commercial rock. To me, ROR was a logical step, saxophone and all. I think it was a good move and I personally like it, I just wish SP would have handled it better.

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

[Jubilee]

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

The short answer is: No.

[Since 78]

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

The short answer is: No.

Well, may I ask how old you are?

[Michigan Girl]

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

The short answer is: No.

Well, may I ask how old you are?

I am sooooo LMAO!!!!

[Jubilee]

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

The short answer is: No.

Well, may I ask how old you are?

I, sir, am a lady. I cannot answer that. Let's just say I'm old enough to have purchased any of Journey's early music on vinyl.

[Since 78]

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

The short answer is: No.

Well, may I ask how old you are?

I am sooooo LMAO!!!!

What?? I think its a pertinent question!

[Michigan Girl]

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

The short answer is: No.

Well, may I ask how old you are?

I am sooooo LMAO!!!!

What?? I think its a pertinent question!

Sorry, 78....
I agree with what you've stated above...and I'm 65, if that helps!!

[Since 78]

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

The short answer is: No.

Well, may I ask how old you are?

I, sir, am a lady. I cannot answer that. Let's just say I'm old enough to have purchased any of Journey's early music on vinyl.

Well then Dear Lady, I guess we must agree to disagree.

[Since 78]

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

The short answer is: No.

Well, may I ask how old you are?

I am sooooo LMAO!!!!

What?? I think its a pertinent question!

Sorry, 78....
I agree with what you've stated above...and I'm 65, if that helps!!

WOW!! You sure aged well!

[Jubilee]

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

The short answer is: No.

Well, may I ask how old you are?

I, sir, am a lady. I cannot answer that. Let's just say I'm old enough to have purchased any of Journey's early music on vinyl.

Well then Dear Lady, I guess we must agree to disagree.

Not so fast, you. What would your argument have been had my response been otherwise? Just curious. I can always be persuaded ... sometimes.

[Since 78]

I completely agree. They became more of a pop band with Escape. Infinity was my first Journey album and it was something completely different, but it was rock. I love all of the Journey catalog, but sometimes I wonder if they would have been able to attain the same stature if Rolie had stayed on.

The short answer is: No.

Well, may I ask how old you are?

I, sir, am a lady. I cannot answer that. Let's just say I'm old enough to have purchased any of Journey's early music on vinyl.

Well then Dear Lady, I guess we must agree to disagree.

Not so fast, you. What would your argument have been had my response been otherwise? Just curious. I can always be persuaded ... sometimes.

Not an argument, its just that so many Journey fans only know Escape forward and didn't get to appreciate IMO the Perry/Schon/Rolie era. I was saying in another thread that I wish they would produce a Captured DVD. It was fantastic stuff. Check out the track list! That was Journey and Steve Perry at its finest!

[stevew2]

Soto performing I'll Be Alright Without You was something else....just stunning. Because he has that naturally lower rock n soul style that Perry had in that era.

Oh yes, totally forgot about that little number. Soto did that song exceptionally well, also he with Send Her Love, but I'll Be Alright Without You, definitely did so well they even included in their set list? maybe, I'm not sure, but IF they continued to tour with SOTO, I reckon when they re-recorded the classics, there would of been more ROR thrown into the mix, due to SOTO's strong voice. What is SOTO anyway? - as I'm leaning towards that he is a Tenor, with a strong Baritone timbre.

Perry did what was smart and brave; He knew the formula is only good so long and on so many guises. Who is going to buy the same songs with different words and titles over and over? Look at TBF, Arrival and Revelaions- same stuff over and over, and, declining sales.

Part of what SP was doing or trying to do was stay relevant. He knew the same ol same ol was drying up- He wanted to reinvent the band and stay in the forefront. Look at the remaining 80's super bands today; U2, E Street, Madonna...like them or hate them, they all stayed huge, survived Grunge, and still play arenas and stadiums today.
.

Yes Dean, I do agree with you there - I think you hit the nail on the head, because it only makes too much sense, for me - that an accurate assessment.

I voted for ROR, for the record. I felt that Street Talk was a decent solo album, but I didn't enjoy the musical direction and the lack of collaboration from truly accomplished writers and lyricists. ROR wasn't, musically, as great as what had come before and what would come after, but the writing and Perry's vocals were truly amazing. Vocally, it was Journey's best album, in my opinion, with some fantastic harmonies. It also gave us the greatest power ballad ever in "Why Can't This Night Go On Forever." "Positive Touch" is also a favorite of mine; not a fan of the saxophone, though. It could have been easily improved with a Neal solo.

And lastly, I also agree with you too (I must be in a good mood today!) but yes, ROR is a deep and inspirational album. For some reason Positive Touch is very underrated I feel, but lots soul in that song. Personally I would of preferred Schon's guitar more in songs such as Happy To Give, Positive Touch (instead of the Sax), of course Saxophone is nice - but Schon's guitar is a lot nicer.

id call him a baritone with one hell of a range.i didnt think his voice fittied well for the dozen,I just didnt like it,some of the stuff he did from ROR was good.i think some of the new matieral wound have been good,Jeff and Neal wrote some cool stuff with Soul Siccus , to late.If Arnel can pull off the tour [half a step flat] with out blowing a nut, this will be a good year for Journey.if not they will look even more retarded than 2006

[Duncan]

I voted for ROR, for the record. I felt that Street Talk was a decent solo album, but I didn't enjoy the musical direction and the lack of collaboration from truly accomplished writers and lyricists. ROR wasn't, musically, as great as what had come before and what would come after, but the writing and Perry's vocals were truly amazing. Vocally, it was Journey's best album, in my opinion, with some fantastic harmonies. It also gave us the greatest power ballad ever in "Why Can't This Night Go On Forever." "Positive Touch" is also a favorite of mine; not a fan of the saxophone, though. It could have been easily improved with a Neal solo.

Gideon - it's hard to think of a more accomplished writer than Randy Goodrum. Check out his bio.

http://www.randygoodrum.com/bio.html

You might want to check out some of his albums as well.

[SherriBerry]

I voted for ROR, for the record. I felt that Street Talk was a decent solo album, but I didn't enjoy the musical direction and the lack of collaboration from truly accomplished writers and lyricists. ROR wasn't, musically, as great as what had come before and what would come after, but the writing and Perry's vocals were truly amazing. Vocally, it was Journey's best album, in my opinion, with some fantastic harmonies. It also gave us the greatest power ballad ever in "Why Can't This Night Go On Forever." "Positive Touch" is also a favorite of mine; not a fan of the saxophone, though. It could have been easily improved with a Neal solo.

Gideon - it's hard to think of a more accomplished writer than Randy Goodrum. Check out his bio.

http://www.randygoodrum.com/bio.html

You might want to check out some of his albums as well.

I was reading about his contribution to SP's 2009 spring release and it continued to say that "Randy is currently writing new material for an upcoming project of Steve's, as well. More on that later" - anyone care to guess what the reaction to that will be around here? As Penny Lane would say, "It's all happening".