OT: Star Trek

[wastingbeerz]

New Trek was awesome... one of the best of the Trek movies, hell, one of the best movies ever, in my opinion. And yeah, I can deal with the fact that it takes place in an alternate reality as well. I heard some complaining as I left the theatre last Thursday about the movie erasing 40 years of Star Trek history... but this simply isn't true. The writers have said time and time again that the "Prime" timeline is safe and still happening... in a parallel reality. Basically, if they hadn't done this... they'd be stuck with the history we already know, possibly even having to remake TOS episodes into movies.

Still, though... I hope they manage to find Khan at some point down the line.

Oh yeah... and I should add that they need look no further than Oded Fehr to play Khan. If you don't know who he is from the name, look him up, I'm sure everyone has seen him in something. He would be perfect for the role.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Basically, if they hadn't done this... they'd be stuck with the history we already know, possibly even having to remake TOS episodes into movies.

I dunno..both 'First Contact' and 'Insurrection' were decent grossers.
Alot like James Bond, I don't quite get why one bad entry requires a franchise to hit the re-set button.
If they put out something of 'First Contact' quality again, maybe audiences would've came back.
That said, the new movie was pretty solid.

[wastingbeerz]

Basically, if they hadn't done this... they'd be stuck with the history we already know, possibly even having to remake TOS episodes into movies.

I dunno..both 'First Contact' and 'Insurrection' were decent grossers.
Alot like James Bond, I don't quite get why one bad entry requires a franchise to hit the re-set button.
If they put out something of 'First Contact' quality again, maybe audiences would've came back.
That said, the new movie was pretty solid.

I'm thinking they should make the "Countdown" comic into a movie or at least animated movie... maybe a bonus-feature of the DVD or something.

Anyway, maybe they can make a Captain Riker movie or miniseries or something to keep the TNG series going... or a DS9 movie, which I would probably enjoy more than anything.

[Zedul]

The alternative cussing vocab was also stolen from Farscape.

I'll just take one line from your post and take it down, because my time is short.

You have no idea what you are talking about. The alternative cussing vocab came straight from the original BSG in 1978, including the word Frak.

[Monker]

The villain of the piece was John Cavil, the entire "Plan" was his... all the way from murdering Daniel out of jealousy, betraying the final 5 and stealing their memories, then planning the apocalypse and sticking them in the human race so they could see his master plan unfold before he finally killed them all.
[/quote[

He was a 'villan' to the cylons...not much of a villan to the fleet. The TOS version of Baltar was villan of the true sense...a simply evil man betraying everybody.

[quote[The secondary villain was Admiral Cain and her band of rapists, torturers and thugs.[/quote[

Oh, please, she wasn't even in the show for a full season of eps.

All the horrible things you were talking about were perpetrated by her and her crew and their racism. In the end Adama had to flush them all out of the airlock and replace them with Cylon crew members, which I thought was fitting.

WRONG. Seems to me there was a scene on the prison ship where a rape was very close. Murder was a part of the series from the mini-series, as soon as Caprica 6 broke the baby's neck. The 'shocking' moments just became more prominent around the time of Razor.

Baltar was not the villian.

Of course not....but, he should have been.

Baltar was not a Jesus and Starbuck was not a prophet.

LOL...I was exagerating a bit...but, the fact is that Baltar became some religious cult leader with a bunch of disciples who would do whatever he asked...and Starbuck became some visionary leading the fleet to Earth. That's the truth. The orignal characters from the mini-series and first season were MUCH more interesting to me.

Baltar renounced his religious leadership, joined up in the final battle, and then became a farmer again like he was as a child and lived happily ever after with Caprica and made half Cylon babies with her.

....and that was AFTER they both admitted they saw 'angels'.

Starbuck was an avatar sent back to guide the survivors to the new earth with a song (All Along the Watchtower) that God gave her, that was her only purpose - she didn't make any prophecies or do anything else other than just be Starbuck and fight and frak.

Oh, so what was all the picture of the super nova and saying the led to Earth, and the 'we are going the wrong way!" crap?

I have no idea why Galatica got under your skin so much other than the fact that you clearly missed some key plot points.

It doesn't 'get under my skin'. People saying it was the best scifi show ever, or the best in 10yrs, or whatever is WAY over rating the show.

[Monker]

I am a bit put off that they copied the space battle style and all of that directly from Battlestar Galactica. I know it was inevitable that the re-imagined BSG was going to have a big impact on films and television in the future (like the way Dr. House has suddenly become Dr. Baltar from BSG) but the degree of the emulation bothers me a little.

Yeah, it was bound to happen. BSG set a lot of new standards. Best sci-fi show to date, either on the silver screen OR teevee! Stargate is for cocksmokers.

I so disagree with BSG. I think it is the most over rated shows of all time. The show became all about shocking the audience with who was going to be frakked, raped or murdered, or how close to saying the word 'fuck' without actually saying it. The story line was screwy and made no sense. BSG had great potential but they runied it by frakking with the audience instead of concetrating on the story.

IMO, the best scifi series ever is Farscape. If you don't agree, fine...But, I know I'll never watch BSG again...except maybe the DVD I have of the 30yr old movie....and I will always love Farscape episodes...They are as classic as ST or SW to me.

Stargate SG1 was OK...better for me when it became Starscape, or Fargate, whatever. Atlantis was good too. But, neither were as imaginitive or as well writter as Farscape.

BSG actually ripped alot of stuff from Farscape.
The Number Six in Gaius's head, in particular, was a total rip-off of the Scorpius plot.
The alternative cussing vocab was also stolen from Farscape.
In the end, both Farscape and BSG made shocking the audience an end unto itself, and neither were very good scifi (I'll save that distinction for Babylon 5 and Twilight Zone), but at least Farscape retained a free-wheeling Rodenberry-on-LSD sense of fun.

BSG's self-seriousness and moreover, its derivativeness was unreal.
Even the hybrids were ripped off from Minority Report.
The final episode clinched what I feared all along...the writers just made shit up.
The resolution of the Opera House dreams subplot just proved they had no game plan.
Head writer, Ronald Moore, even admitted in a 'making of' documentary that he pulled the final five out of his ass.
Monker - did you make it to BSG's last ep?

Of course I did...it was an OK show...Just not the best thing ever.

BSG put 'frak' out there in 1979...well before Farscape.

The 'shocking' moments in Farscape were well planned and had significance to the development of the story. The torturing of Crichton in the Aurora chair, for example, had consequences that lasted the entire series (Harvey). My complaint about BSG is they did it for the shock value in almost every episode. And, BTW, even tho Tricia Helfer is one fine woman to gawk over...I looked forward to any scene with Harvey just as much.

Another thing I'll throw out there is it's humorous that people actually think of BSG as 'anti-trek'. When I was reading the scifi.com forums back a couple years ago, people were worried about Ron Moore Trekifying BSG...ie: enemies become nice...Klingons, even the Borg were tamed a bit (Hugh). So, we started getting 'nice' Cylons. I think Moore read the forums a bit too much and did some things just to piss them off! Seriously!

[Monker]

The alternative cussing vocab was also stolen from Farscape.

I'll just take one line from your post and take it down, because my time is short.

You have no idea what you are talking about. The alternative cussing vocab came straight from the original BSG in 1978, including the word Frak.

True, but BSG:TOS did not use frak nearly as often as Farscape used Frell, or how often the new BSG used Frak, or how often Red Dwarf used 'smeg'.

[Sarah]

Why is good that BSG is "anti-Trek"? Trek's awesome.

I thought BSG was a load of crap, I dunno. I watched the first season and was not drinking the Kool-Aid everyone else was. I think Cylons being religious bothered me. You would think robots would be more, uh, scientific I guess. Then I heard everyone bawwwwing over the finale and I was glad I didn't waste my time.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'll just take one line from your post and take it down, because my time is short.

You have no idea what you are talking about. The alternative cussing vocab came straight from the original BSG in 1978, including the word Frak.

Maybe so, but Farscape, which was cancelled to shore up funds for BG, had its own lexicon of alien expletives.
Additionally, the storyline of Gaius being plagued by visions of Number 6 was ripped directly from Farscape.
If you choose to believe these are independent coincidenses, go ahead.
The fact that BG's hybrids were ripped off from the film Minority Report, also does not inspire confidence.

[hoagiepete]

Holy shit! What are you guys talking about??????

[verslibre]

Why is good that BSG is "anti-Trek"? Trek's awesome.

I thought BSG was a load of crap, I dunno. I watched the first season and was not drinking the Kool-Aid everyone else was. I think Cylons being religious bothered me. You would think robots would be more, uh, scientific I guess. Then I heard everyone bawwwwing over the finale and I was glad I didn't waste my time.

Nobody I know was "bawwwwing" over the finale. The first hour rocked out with its Cylon cock out. The second hour was essentially a long denouement. And had the writers' strike continued, we may not have even gotten the last ten episodes. Sorry you didn't enjoy the show; it's not for everybody, and that goes for Stargate, Babylon 5, X-Files, Andromeda (LOL!), Doctor Who, Torchwood (and even Star Trek) and everything else. Hence, there's "something for everybody."

[verslibre]

New Trek was awesome... one of the best of the Trek movies, hell, one of the best movies ever, in my opinion. And yeah, I can deal with the fact that it takes place in an alternate reality as well. I heard some complaining as I left the theatre last Thursday about the movie erasing 40 years of Star Trek history... but this simply isn't true. The writers have said time and time again that the "Prime" timeline is safe and still happening... in a parallel reality. Basically, if they hadn't done this... they'd be stuck with the history we already know, possibly even having to remake TOS episodes into movies.

Still, though... I hope they manage to find Khan at some point down the line.

Oh yeah... and I should add that they need look no further than Oded Fehr to play Khan. If you don't know who he is from the name, look him up, I'm sure everyone has seen him in something. He would be perfect for the role.

Good call. I can see Oded as Khan. Though for some reason, I first thought of Arnold Vosloo when you said that!

[larryfromnextdoor]

Holy shit! What are you guys talking about??????

funniest post of the week.. gawd oh mawty... funny....

[Zedul]

Holy shit! What are you guys talking about??????

Nerds arguing, just look the other way... or run!

[maverick218]

Great movie, they obviously "changed history" on a few things; and the romantic connection was very unexpected. I thought they made Spock more human than Vulcan... and did I miss it- just what was Nero's beef with Spock anyway?

[verslibre]

Great movie, they obviously "changed history" on a few things; and the romantic connection was very unexpected. I thought they made Spock more human than Vulcan... and did I miss it- just what was Nero's beef with Spock anyway?

He blamed Spock Prime for the destruction of his world (but more for the death of his family) because he didn't get there soon enough to stop the supernova.

[verslibre]

Holy shit! What are you guys talking about??????

Nerds arguing, just look the other way... or run!

If you're trying to get away from the Journerds, you're in the right place. Otherwise, you might want to skip over to that Steve Perry thread that ballooned to nearly a dozen pages in just a few hours!

[BobbyinTN]

I saw it Saturday and it was so fuckin' awesome. I'm not a "Trekkie", but I do like the movies, but this one just kicked ass. I even got a little emotional at the voice over at the end of the movie, "Space, the final frontier..."

GO SEE IT!

did you go alone?

Nope, I was with my better half. We've been together almost 17 years. I don't do much without him.

[Don]

I saw it Saturday and it was so fuckin' awesome. I'm not a "Trekkie", but I do like the movies, but this one just kicked ass. I even got a little emotional at the voice over at the end of the movie, "Space, the final frontier..."

GO SEE IT!

did you go alone?

Nope, I was with my better half. We've been together almost 17 years. I don't do much without him.

As it should be.

[Zedul]

Seems to me there was a scene on the prison ship where a rape was very close.

OMG Monker!! Are you telling me that a young woman on an all male prison ship full of hardened inmates was nearly raped after they escaped and took over? Holy shit!

Something like that would never happen in real life after all.

You are absolutely right here... I get it now, I see the light!

Frakking BSG - so unrealistic!

[Monker]

Seems to me there was a scene on the prison ship where a rape was very close.

OMG Monker!! Are you telling me that a young woman on an all male prison ship full of hardened inmates was nearly raped after they escaped and took over? Holy shit!

Something like that would never happen in real life after all.

You are absolutely right here... I get it now, I see the light!

Frakking BSG - so unrealistic!

No. What I am telling you is that those type of 'shocks' were happening both before and after Pegasus. Deal with it.

[Jeremey]

You're all a bunch of whoovians.

[KDOUBLEU]

You're all a bunch of whoovians.

Whoovian? What the heck is a Whoovian??

[Monker]

You're all a bunch of whoovians.

Whoovian? What the heck is a Whoovian??

Dr. Who's version of Trekkies.

[KDOUBLEU]

You're all a bunch of whoovians.

Whoovian? What the heck is a Whoovian??

Dr. Who's version of Trekkies.

Ah ok Thanks

[Zedul]

No. What I am telling you is that those type of 'shocks' were happening both before and after Pegasus. Deal with it.

Deal with what?

Storytelling? Character? Drama?

WTF do you want from a new millennium Sci-Fi show.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8RfzkhqBLY

[verslibre]

You're all a bunch of whoovians.

Whoovian? What the heck is a Whoovian??

Dr. Who's version of Trekkies.

Huh?? I thought it was Whooters!!

[Zedul]

I'll throw out there is it's humorous that people actually think of BSG as 'anti-trek'

It totally is.

The main premises of Trek:

1. Technology will save us and create almost a future utopia.

2. Alien life exists everywhere in the damn galaxy - even though 99% of the time they look just like humans with bumpy foreheads or point ears.

3. God does not exist or is never even referred to outside of TOS and plays no part in the destiny of, well, anything.

The main premises of BSG:

1. Technology will only make our problems worse.

2. There is no life in the galaxy except for animals, humans - and the stuff they make.

3. God not only exists, but so do angels and they are constantly "guiding" humanity towards a destiny and forcing people to make choices.

Those two series (and I am speaking mainly of Trek from Next Gen on...) are about as opposite in viewpoint as the Shadows and the Vorlons. If you are uncomfortable with the idea of God as an idea and simply are scared witless by any philosophizing about the nature of God and the universe OR your are a religious fundamental with very strict viewpoints on how YOU think God should be then obviously the very nature of the show may make you uncomfortable. But that doesn't mean it's not brilliant.

Also - earlier it was mentioned about the "Opera House" vision as showing how the writers were inept. I posted about this on the BSG forums very early. The Opera House was obviously Galactica, there was no other choice. It's a metaphor for the entire show. From the beginning Moore stated that his show was "basically an opera with the ship as the stage for the performance". The vision was only there as a metaphor for the art that was being created and it was more of a nod from the artist to the audience than it was specific in meaning to the plot itself. I don't know why everyone was so surprised when the ship ended up being the Opera House.

I could go on and on here.

Furthermore... I took my wife to Trek today and the first thing she said as we left the theater was "Wow it looked and felt like BSG with a little bit of Babylon 5 and not like Star Trek at all...."

Yup!

And that final fight in the new Trek - was a complete cliche BSG missile salvo sequence.

No or little influence.

Jeeeeeeez.

[verslibre]

I'll throw out there is it's humorous that people actually think of BSG as 'anti-trek'

It totally is.

The main premises of Trek:

1. Technology will save us and create almost a future utopia.

2. Alien life exists everywhere in the damn galaxy - even though 99% of the time they look just like humans with bumpy foreheads or point ears.

3. God does not exist or is never even referred to outside of TOS and plays no part in the destiny of, well, anything.

The main premises of BSG:

1. Technology will only make our problems worse.

2. There is no life in the galaxy except for animals, humans - and the stuff they make.

3. God not only exists, but so do angels and they are constantly "guiding" humanity towards a destiny and forcing people to make choices.

Those two series (and I am speaking mainly of Trek from Next Gen on...) are about as opposite in viewpoint as the Shadows and the Vorlons. If you are uncomfortable with the idea of God as an idea and simply are scared witless by any philosophizing about the nature of God and the universe OR your are a religious fundamental with very strict viewpoints on how YOU think God should be then obviously the very nature of the show may make you uncomfortable. But that doesn't mean it's not brilliant.

Also - earlier it was mentioned about the "Opera House" vision as showing how the writers were inept. I posted about this on the BSG forums very early. The Opera House was obviously Galactica, there was no other choice. It's a metaphor for the entire show. From the beginning Moore stated that his show was "basically an opera with the ship as the stage for the performance". The vision was only there as a metaphor for the art that was being created and it was more of a nod from the artist to the audience than it was specific in meaning to the plot itself. I don't know why everyone was so surprised when the ship ended up being the Opera House.

I could go on and on here.

Furthermore... I took my wife to Trek today and the first thing she said as we left the theater was "Wow it looked and felt like BSG with a little bit of Babylon 5 and not like Star Trek at all...."

Yup!

And that final fight in the new Trek - was a complete cliche BSG missile salvo sequence.

No or little influence.

Jeeeeeeez.

I can only add a big fat "I concur" & "ditto" to the above.

P.S. BSG rules.

[Rip Rokken]

3. God does not exist or is never even referred to outside of TOS and plays no part in the destiny of, well, anything.

Except for "ST V: The Final Frontier", unless you were counting that as TOS.