Saint John

[Rockindeano]

Monker, I completely get what you are saying here, and I second your statement.

I don't think the folks here are understanding what you are trying to say.

[G.I.Jim]

Monker, I completely get what you are saying here, and I second your statement.

I don't think the folks here are understanding what you are trying to say.

Can you please try to explain it to me then? How is there no difference between someone who knows 4 or 5 of their songs and has no clue who the lead singer is, compared to someone who knows all of their songs, OWNS everything that the band has ever released, and spends most of his free time on a website based around the band?

And to call me "arrogant" because I say I'm more of a dedicated fan than the average Joe out there on the street? I never said I was "Better" than anyone. THAT would be arrogant.

[Rockindeano]

Monker, I completely get what you are saying here, and I second your statement.

I don't think the folks here are understanding what you are trying to say.

Can you please try to explain it to me then? How is there no difference between someone who knows 4 or 5 of their songs and has no clue who the lead singer is, compared to someone who knows all of their songs, OWNS everything that the band has ever released, and spends most of his free time on a website based around the band?

And to call me "arrogant" because I say I'm more of a dedicated fan than the average Joe out there on the street? I never said I was "Better" than anyone. THAT would be arrogant.

Jim, I used to tell Lula all the time, back when I really was a fan, that I was the biggest Journey fan ever,and "you aren't as big a fan as me." She told me to go fuck myself, and she was right.

The definition of Fan is described as "being fanatical of a certain entity."

So when you compare yourself, a super fan, having acquired shitloads of Journey shit, to a "casual fan" who may know DSB and WCN, that makes no sense. There is no such thing as a casual fan.

What Monker is also saying is how can you "pick and choose" your from your band's catalog? Perhaps there are different levels of fandom, I don't know. To say "I am a fan of Perry only Journey" cannot mean the same as a person who accepts all variations of the band. If someone says "I am a Journey fan," they better be talking about the entire career, from the first three shit records, to Golden Classic years, to the descending years, and finally to the current. That would be a true fan.

Jim, you pay the shipping, and I will give you all my Journey stuff, and I have shitloads. Just no longer have the love like I used to.

[G.I.Jim]

Monker, I completely get what you are saying here, and I second your statement.

I don't think the folks here are understanding what you are trying to say.

Can you please try to explain it to me then? How is there no difference between someone who knows 4 or 5 of their songs and has no clue who the lead singer is, compared to someone who knows all of their songs, OWNS everything that the band has ever released, and spends most of his free time on a website based around the band?

And to call me "arrogant" because I say I'm more of a dedicated fan than the average Joe out there on the street? I never said I was "Better" than anyone. THAT would be arrogant.

Jim, I used to tell Lula all the time, back when I really was a fan, that I was the biggest Journey fan ever,and "you aren't as big a fan as me." She told me to go fuck myself, and she was right.

The definition of Fan is described as "being fanatical of a certain entity."

So when you compare yourself, a super fan, having acquired shitloads of Journey shit, to a "casual fan" who may know DSB and WCN, that makes no sense. There is no such thing as a casual fan.

What Monker is also saying is how can you "pick and choose" your from your band's catalog? Perhaps there are different levels of fandom, I don't know. To say "I am a fan of Perry only Journey" cannot mean the same as a person who accepts all variations of the band. If someone says "I am a Journey fan," they better be talking about the entire career, from the first three shit records, to Golden Classic years, to the descending years, and finally to the current. That would be a true fan.

Jim, you pay the shipping, and I will give you all my Journey stuff, and I have shitloads. Just no longer have the love like I used to.

I completely disagree, but I guess I can agree to disagree. Monker is totally contradicting himself. He's saying that you either love EVERYTHING Journey has released or your not a fan. Than he says there's no difference between a hardcore or casual fan. A casual fan isn't going to LIKE Journey's older stuff, so how can they be a fan? His whole arguement is fucking retarded, and who died and made him in charge of Journey fandom anyway?

[Jana]

I agree with everyone and I agree with no one, because I'm totally lost and confused now.

[NealIsGod]

Why is it so hard to understand that you can't HATE AND DESPISE something and be a fan of it.

So you can't hate what Michael Vick took part in and still be a Falcons fan? You can't hate T.O and still be a Bills fan?

[Rockindeano]

Jim, hate Monker all you want, and trust me I used to, but you can't argue his knowledge of this band.

[G.I.Jim]

Jim, hate Monker all you want, and trust me I used to, but you can't argue his knowledge of this band.

I don't hate anybody! And what the hell does his knowledge of the band have to do with him being in charge of who is or isn't a fan? I'm not trying to debate any Journey facts or trivia with him. Just trying to figure out why he's contradicting himself?

[Arkansas]

Perhaps the key here is being a fan of the band, or a fan of a few albums. There's definitely a difference.
For example, are you a fan of GM, or just Corvettes? Do you really like Honda, or just that Accord that you've driven for 15 yrs? Are you a Russell Crowe fan, or did you just like Gladiator? etc.


later~

[G.I.Jim]

Perhaps the key here is being a fan of the band, or a fan of a few albums. There's definitely a difference.
For example, are you a fan of GM, or just Corvettes? Do you really like Honda, or just that Accord that you've driven for 15 yrs? Are you a Russell Crowe fan, or did you just like Gladiator? etc.


later~

So in your opinion here, if you like 80 percent of a bands music, you can't be a fan of the band?

[bluejeangirl76]

Perhaps the key here is being a fan of the band, or a fan of a few albums. There's definitely a difference.
For example, are you a fan of GM, or just Corvettes? Do you really like Honda, or just that Accord that you've driven for 15 yrs? Are you a Russell Crowe fan, or did you just like Gladiator? etc.


later~

So in your opinion here, if you like 80 percent of a bands music, you can't be a fan of the band?

So that would mean that even though I grew up on Journey and still love all the stuff from Infinity on to Arrival and play them often, I'm not a fan because I dislike Generations, don't care much for Revelation, and don't own the 1st three? Yeah, ok. I guess I'm not a fan.

[portland]

Perhaps the key here is being a fan of the band, or a fan of a few albums. There's definitely a difference.
For example, are you a fan of GM, or just Corvettes? Do you really like Honda, or just that Accord that you've driven for 15 yrs? Are you a Russell Crowe fan, or did you just like Gladiator? etc.


later~

So in your opinion here, if you like 80 percent of a bands music, you can't be a fan of the band?

So that would mean that even though I grew up on Journey and still love all the stuff from Infinity on to Arrival and play them often, I'm not a fan because I dislike Generations, don't care much for Revelation, and don't own the 1st three? Yeah, ok. I guess I'm not a fan.

I guess I am not a fan either as I have a copy of Revelation on e-bay

But you will have to pry the other cd's out of my little hands.....nope not a fan here

[yulog]

Perhaps the key here is being a fan of the band, or a fan of a few albums. There's definitely a difference.
For example, are you a fan of GM, or just Corvettes? Do you really like Honda, or just that Accord that you've driven for 15 yrs? Are you a Russell Crowe fan, or did you just like Gladiator? etc.


later~

So in your opinion here, if you like 80 percent of a bands music, you can't be a fan of the band?

So that would mean that even though I grew up on Journey and still love all the stuff from Infinity on to Arrival and play them often, I'm not a fan because I dislike Generations, don't care much for Revelation, and don't own the 1st three? Yeah, ok. I guess I'm not a fan.

Maybe your just not a fan of monker, Theres been plenty of that going on for years on this site

[Rockindeano]

Perhaps the key here is being a fan of the band, or a fan of a few albums. There's definitely a difference.
For example, are you a fan of GM, or just Corvettes? Do you really like Honda, or just that Accord that you've driven for 15 yrs? Are you a Russell Crowe fan, or did you just like Gladiator? etc.


later~

So in your opinion here, if you like 80 percent of a bands music, you can't be a fan of the band?

So that would mean that even though I grew up on Journey and still love all the stuff from Infinity on to Arrival and play them often, I'm not a fan because I dislike Generations, don't care much for Revelation, and don't own the 1st three? Yeah, ok. I guess I'm not a fan.

You aren't. You made a perfect example. how can you be a fan of "Journey" but only like certain eras? You could say you are a fan of Classic era Journey, and Perry led Journey, and that would be much more accurate.

[G.I.Jim]

Perhaps the key here is being a fan of the band, or a fan of a few albums. There's definitely a difference.
For example, are you a fan of GM, or just Corvettes? Do you really like Honda, or just that Accord that you've driven for 15 yrs? Are you a Russell Crowe fan, or did you just like Gladiator? etc.


later~

So in your opinion here, if you like 80 percent of a bands music, you can't be a fan of the band?

So that would mean that even though I grew up on Journey and still love all the stuff from Infinity on to Arrival and play them often, I'm not a fan because I dislike Generations, don't care much for Revelation, and don't own the 1st three? Yeah, ok. I guess I'm not a fan.

You aren't. You made a perfect example. how can you be a fan of "Journey" but only like certain eras? You could say you are a fan of Classic era Journey, and Perry led Journey, and that would be much more accurate.

Alright homo, lets hop in and go for a spin. Do you like every SONG that Journey has ever recorded? I know you don't like ROR, and you CLAIM to never having heard Revalation.

According to this method of thought...You would have to love every Journey song ever recorded to be a fan! OHHHH KAYYYYYYY.

While we're thinking like this... did you love every outfit that Journey ever wore on stage? If not...you're not a fan. Every hairdo, every moustache, etc... They are all a part of who Journey is and was. If you don't, you're not a fan.

Most ridiculous arguement I've ever heard!

[G.I.Jim]

This whole thread is making me...

[artist4perry]

Monker, I completely get what you are saying here, and I second your statement.

I don't think the folks here are understanding what you are trying to say.

Deano are you an all era fan? Do you like everything and have no issues with anything about the band? Are all the singers your favorite and you love each and every one? Are all the albums equally brilliant and none stand out more than the other? I am not getting what your trying to say I suppose............... I have loved this band for a long time. But I love some albums more than others, I like some singers better than others, though I have no real dislike for any. Fleishman was not so hot...........But I like some of the instrumentals of the early albums. So am I counted out?

[Red13JoePa]

you CLAIM to never having heard Revalation.

LMAO I love that one, too.
SO lying about that Dean.

[Rockindeano]

you CLAIM to never having heard Revalation.

LMAO I love that one, too.
SO lying about that Dean.

Hey alter boy, I haven't heard more than three songs, the songs they played in Vegas...hell, I was booted out during The new ballad, after yelling "Friga" over and over, so I may have only heard two, I don't know. I can promise you, I haven't bought the cd. Dated crap.

[Deb]

Getting a good chuckle out of Jim and Dean's new AVs.

[G.I.Jim]

Getting a good chuckle out of Jim and Dean's new AVs.

I try to please!

[Monker]

Exactly. And, if you HATE the version of Journey after, or before, one of those "change ups"...then I don't think you are a Journey fan either. Showing such disrespect is not what a fan would do.

Nonsense. Staying true to the highest standards of a band is what the real fan does. Not blindly excusing every mediocre and shabby thing the band gets up to on its downward trajectory...

Highest standards, not blindly excusing? Well, if I held my bands up to the highest standards some of them have already let me down, but I love their music and stay with them, accepting their mistakes that at times hurt their band. So re Journey, how about not blindly excusing, but saying they can be assholes or make bad decisions, but I still love them b/c I still love the music and Journey as-is today with Arnel, (which was the right move), and just appreciate their passion for music. My standards are just fine, thank you. :

See? Yet another fan............my don't we all come with such varying reasons? I love it!

Exactly. I would never define who is a true fan of Journey, except for myself. With the twists and turns of this band there's no right answer. Too individual.

I'm not saying 'true fan' either...because I don't think their is such a thing. You are either a fan or not...not a 'true fan'. Does that mean there is such a thing as a 'false fan?'

Bullshit. You're telling me there's no difference between a casual who knows 5 or 6 songs, and owns the "Greatest Hits" cd and likes them and still thinks Steve Perry is their singer, compared to someone who owns 25 Journey cd's, has t-shirts, all of their dvd's, has seen them live 6 times and has a Journey poster? That's just fucking retarded.

I never said I was "Better" than any Journey fan, nor did I say I was their "Biggest". I said I am "one of their biggest fans". I don't sort through their fucking trash cans outside of their houses, nor do I know any of their damn pets names, but I would say I'm a HUGE fan of the band, and so would anyone who knows me.

I can't believe I'm even sitting here wasting my time explaining this shit to you! Have a great day.

Yes, there is a difference, one is more arrogant then the other and insists on putting a lofty label upon themself.

A fan is a fan..."true' fan", "hardcore fan" are all bullshit terms to make people feel more important then others.

You are a fucking moron. How can you possibly be so dense? That's like saying there are only students. No dedicated students, and no lazy students...they're all the same. If a student gets an "A" they're no different than a student that doesn't do homework and get's an "F". That's some real logic at work buddy.

It's very arrogant and presumptuous to start categorizing fans. How do you measure it? How much material bullshit they have in their basement? How many albums you bought. How many concerts you've seen? How much money you spent? That is all just fan crap. How much crap you have is not a true measurement of what is inside your heart and head and thoughts and feelings towards the band. There is no measurement, like a grade for a student, that you can apply to a fan of a band.

[Monker]

Monker is totally contradicting himself. He's saying that you either love EVERYTHING Journey has released or your not a fan.

That is absolutely NOT what I said. I am saying that Journey has existed since 1974. You either respect that legacy and call yourself a fan, or not. Saying how much you HATE and DESPISE the band is not what I believe a fan does. Saying you don't like such and such is not the same as saying you HATE the band.

Than he says there's no difference between a hardcore or casual fan.

No I'm not. I'm saying there is no such thing as a 'casual' or 'hardcore' or 'true' fan. Those are just bullshit terms to pretend that some fans are more important then others.

A casual fan isn't going to LIKE Journey's older stuff, so how can they be a fan?

Not true. I've talked to fans over the years who like the pre-Perry stuff more then when Perry joined...and quit being so into the band when Rollie left. They may still 'like' some of the songs since...but they are not so into it any longer. So, who are you to say those fans are somehow less fan worthy then others?

His whole arguement is fucking retarded, and who died and made him in charge of Journey fandom anyway?

The same could be said about you.

[Monker]

Why is it so hard to understand that you can't HATE AND DESPISE something and be a fan of it.

So you can't hate what Michael Vick took part in and still be a Falcons fan? You can't hate T.O and still be a Bills fan?

I really don't care. I'm talking about eras of a band...not assholes on a football team.

[Red13JoePa]

you CLAIM to never having heard Revalation.

LMAO I love that one, too.
SO lying about that Dean.

Hey alter boy.

You nailed me...first full bottle of wine I drank was Gold Seal altar wine in 6th gr...then me and Mike Provasnik turned the candle lighters into flamethrowers with a simple can of Endust.

[G.I.Jim]

Why is it so hard to understand that you can't HATE AND DESPISE something and be a fan of it.

So you can't hate what Michael Vick took part in and still be a Falcons fan? You can't hate T.O and still be a Bills fan?

I really don't care. I'm talking about eras of a band...not assholes on a football team.

How is that any different? And I'm not trying to dictate who can be a Journey "fan"...you are. Have I told you you aren't a fan? You didn't answer my previous statements...

Do you like every song they've ever released? Every outfit they wore on stage? Every decision they made? If not...you're no fan of "Journey". I never said I hate any era of Journey, and while I know you were talking about Dan, he can still certainly be a fan. You're the one saying people can't be fans of the band unless they like everything the band has ever done...not me.

And again...to say that there aren't varying degree's of fans is just ridiculous. How do you think the term "hardcore fan" came about? Obviously it doesn't exist in your world. I don't have a beef with you, and I've never said I'm a better fan than anyone else. Just said I'm "one of their biggest fans". That is a fact. If you disagree with this, than that's your perogative. I'm done with this conversation, and I'm not going to waste one more minute on it. I've got a band to be a fan of!

[Monker]

How is that any different?

It's a lot different. The band should be judged by its music, not by the actions of its members. If that were the case, why would any of us be 'fans' of Journey, considering some of their ridiculous actions?

And I'm not trying to dictate who can be a Journey "fan"...you are. Have I told you you aren't a fan? You didn't answer my previous statements...

All I am saying, for the billionth time is, you can't HATE and despise something and call yourself a fan of it. It's that simple...but you keep adding to it and try to make it something else.

Do you like every song they've ever released?

No...so what? I also don't HATE and DESPISE any of Journey's music.

Every outfit they wore on stage? Every decision they made?

I don't think that has much to do with being a fan...being some girly person staring at Gregg's monstor, or Perry's girly blouse, or Neal's sock in his pants, or someone who has to know every detail of what the band does. None of that makes you a fan of "Journey".

If not...you're no fan of "Journey".

You just said you are not dictating who is a fan....I'm not saying that - YOU ARE.

I never said I hate any era of Journey

I never said you did. In fact, I never said ANYBODY did. I said I wasn't making this personal and pointing out any examples. If you think the shoe fits you, well, that's your problem.

and while I know you were talking about Dan

As I said, I wasn't talking about ANYBODY specific!

You're the one saying people can't be fans of the band unless they like everything the band has ever done...not me.

That is an absolute LIE. Prove it - quote it. You are just making stuff up.

And again...to say that there aren't varying degree's of fans is just ridiculous. How do you think the term "hardcore fan" came about?

I told you, because some people want to make it seem some fans are more important then othes.

I don't have a beef with you, and I've never said I'm a better fan than anyone else. Just said I'm "one of their biggest fans". That is a fact.

It is also a contradiction...It implies that you think yourself more highly then some other fans. That is arrogant.

[Eric]

I can promise you, I haven't bought the cd. Dated crap.

You are not qualified to say

[Red13JoePa]

I can promise you, I haven't bought the cd. Dated crap.

You are not qualified to say

*Chortle*

[Monker]

I can promise you, I haven't bought the cd. Dated crap.

You are not qualified to say

Well, I have it, and he's right...Even the 'new' songs sound like 80s nostalgia.