OT: How's the new President doing?

[SusieP]

Okay.........


so how IS the new President doing?

Unemployment Rate Rises in 48 States

The unemployment rate rose in all but two states last month, and in eight states it reached the highest level in the 34 years on record.

Michigan, hit hard by auto plant closures, had the highest unemployment in the country, the Labor Department said Friday, rising to 14.1% in May from 12.9% in April. It was the highest Michigan's unemployment has been since the early 1980s, when high energy prices and a rising dollar slammed the U.S. manufacturing sector.

In 16 states and the District of Columbia, the unemployment rate topped the nation's 9.4%; it was lower in 33 states. The two states with the lowest unemployment rates were North Dakota and Nebraska, whose farm economies have been shielded from job losses.

Payrolls were below year-earlier levels in 48 of the 50 states. The largest percentage decline was in Arizona, where the housing downturn has cut deeply into real-estate related work. It had 7.4% fewer jobs than a year earlier.

But isn't this all the crap he has inherited?

Is he doing a good job of sorting it out?
I know he's good at killing flies.................but how's he doing really? Just curious.
Our guy over here is making a total mess of EVERYTHING.

[SusieP]

Naaa, get a job taking tickets at a movie theater. It's nice and cool and you get all the free popcorn you want.

I know what you mean Eric. The company I work for is going to move away from the conventional retirement plan and into the 401k type. I have 25 years with the company, 23 years credited to the retirement plan. My 401k doesn't have a lot in it. What I feel will happen in the future will be them filing bankruptcy, as they've threatened to so many times, and my conventional retirement will be in the shitter, and then I'll be with you working at the movie theater.

Where is this movie theatre?
I want to come and work with you guys.
Everything is already in the shitter over here.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Naaa, get a job taking tickets at a movie theater. It's nice and cool and you get all the free popcorn you want.

I know what you mean Eric. The company I work for is going to move away from the conventional retirement plan and into the 401k type. I have 25 years with the company, 23 years credited to the retirement plan. My 401k doesn't have a lot in it. What I feel will happen in the future will be them filing bankruptcy, as they've threatened to so many times, and my conventional retirement will be in the shitter, and then I'll be with you working at the movie theater.

Where is this movie theatre?
I want to come and work with you guys.
Everything is already in the shitter over here.

Oh come up to Liverpool susie! Everything is beautiful over here... skint... but beautiful aha

[SusieP]

Naaa, get a job taking tickets at a movie theater. It's nice and cool and you get all the free popcorn you want.

I know what you mean Eric. The company I work for is going to move away from the conventional retirement plan and into the 401k type. I have 25 years with the company, 23 years credited to the retirement plan. My 401k doesn't have a lot in it. What I feel will happen in the future will be them filing bankruptcy, as they've threatened to so many times, and my conventional retirement will be in the shitter, and then I'll be with you working at the movie theater.

Where is this movie theatre?
I want to come and work with you guys.
Everything is already in the shitter over here.

Oh come up to Liverpool susie! Everything is beautiful over here... skint... but beautiful aha

But you'd make me listen to Janis bloody Joplin!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lora]

Anyone who says all Americans don't have access to health care is wrong. All Americans do have access to health care. The question is how it's paid for. Some have insurance, some have health care savings plans, some have Medicare/Medicaid. Those that are left either pay out of pocket, or don't pay at all. They generally don't get turned away though for health care needs.

I have researched this a great deal as I have a relative who is ill and he cannot get affordable health insurance. He has (well, had) a full time job but they did not provide their employees with health insurance. With his salary and his medical history, there was/is NO health insurance available to him. He does not get adequate health care because of that, so your statement is not correct. I am not sure that I am a proponent of socialize health care, but something needs to be done. People DIE because they cannot get health care.

[RedWingFan]

Anyone who says all Americans don't have access to health care is wrong. All Americans do have access to health care. The question is how it's paid for. Some have insurance, some have health care savings plans, some have Medicare/Medicaid. Those that are left either pay out of pocket, or don't pay at all. They generally don't get turned away though for health care needs.

I have researched this a great deal as I have a relative who is ill and he cannot get affordable health insurance. He has (well, had) a full time job but they did not provide their employees with health insurance. With his salary and his medical history, there was/is NO health insurance available to him. He does not get adequate health care because of that, so your statement is not correct. I am not sure that I am a proponent of socialize health care, but something needs to be done. People DIE because they cannot get health care.

Donna is correct. She's talking about health care, you're talking about health insurance. 2 different things.

[Lula]

health care is terribly expensive, especially when treating a disease. it is unfair to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. if a person is unable to get coverage for a treatment such as chemo/radiation, have a tumor that needs to be removed- benign or malignant, or ongoing prescriptions to manage diabetes, their future is bleak to say the least. each individual, each citizen if you prefer, should have the opportunity to receive medical treatment as needed. sure we can all seek/access, walk into a doctor's office or hospital, health care, but can we all receive it?

[BobbyinTN]

Obama is not a socialist. Obama has to fix 8 years of bullshit created by a wannabe-cowboy who couldn't piss of himself without Dick Cheney holding his dick.

Without W's war, we would not be in this mess.

Stop with the republican talkin' points and learn something.

Yeah okay genius. Obama's spending makes the war spending look like penny candy.

Obama can't spend anything without the approval of the Senate.


And your numbers are sadly off. Bush hid the actual cost of the way because he knew how bad it was.

[Barb]

People DIE because they cannot get health care.

I'd love to know what that number is vs. the number who die waiting to see a doctor or get the treatment they need under the socialized health care programs.

[donnaplease]

Anyone who says all Americans don't have access to health care is wrong. All Americans do have access to health care. The question is how it's paid for. Some have insurance, some have health care savings plans, some have Medicare/Medicaid. Those that are left either pay out of pocket, or don't pay at all. They generally don't get turned away though for health care needs.

I have researched this a great deal as I have a relative who is ill and he cannot get affordable health insurance. He has (well, had) a full time job but they did not provide their employees with health insurance. With his salary and his medical history, there was/is NO health insurance available to him. He does not get adequate health care because of that, so your statement is not correct. I am not sure that I am a proponent of socialize health care, but something needs to be done. People DIE because they cannot get health care.

First off, Lora, I'm sorry to hear about your relative, and hope for the best for him. I will be the first to admit that the system isn't a perfect one. I'd love to see a major overhaul of the system, including making coverage more affordable and available to everyone. I have both medical and dental coverage, but when Dakota gets his wisdom teeth extracted this summer, the first $900 comes out of my pocket. Obviously I'm not happy about that, as I'd prefer to spend that money sitting on a beach somewhere with my family. Any catastrophic health crisis is certain to bankrupt just about anyone. Another thing I'd like to see is tort reform, because many good physicians are leaving their practices because they can't afford to (or simply don't want to) pay the cost of malpractice insurance. I totally believe in a patient's right to sue a practitioner when there is evidence of neglect or misconduct, but our society is so litigious that many people use a malpractice suit as a means to make a quick (or not so quick) buck.

It's a nasty business to be involved in, the health insurance business. I believe many are money-hungry crooks. However, I strongly feel that Medicaid is not the answer, and that's what socialized medicine really is. Having been a Navy wife, I did have access to military hospitals, and my father was a WWII veteran who used the veterans hospitals. Both of those systems seemed to work quite well, so if I could be guaranteed a similar kind of service I would be more open to the idea of it.

It's so frustrating when dealing with a representative from an insurance company who denies benefits for a service, knowing that the person is basically a glorified telemarketer, and has no clue about the medical field. Trust me, I've seen it more than I care to mention. I can only imagine how it would be to get bureaucrats mixed into the fray. Oye!

Unfortunately, from what I've seen and read, people DIE because they're waiting for health care, and that's just not acceptable to me.

[The_Noble_Cause]

People DIE because they cannot get health care.

I'd love to know what that number is vs. the number who die waiting to see a doctor or get the treatment they need under the socialized health care programs.

Barb, you know that none of the usual suspects will come in here with that kind of number, as that would involve them educating themselves with some logic that just may override their emotions. So I'll do it...

CURRENT WAITING TIMES IN ENGLAND AND SCOTLAND
8 months for cataract surgery
11 months for a hip replacement
12 months for a knee replacement
5 months to repair a slipped disc
5 months for a hernia repair

Patients are waiting longer on average for NHS treatment than they were in 1997, despite the billions of pounds poured into the health service since Labour [b](LIBERALS)came to power.


The NHS figures come as an embarrassing setback for the Government, which has claimed success in reducing very long waits for patients by pumping more money into the NHS and hiring more doctors and nurses.

The Government has succeeded in ending waiting times of 18 months, but overall the average time patients wait for an operation has risen from 41 days in 1997-98 to 49 days last year. Ministerial sources said the figures were misleading, but they threaten to undermine plans by Gordon Brown for a fresh summer offensive on the health service.

Patients waiting for admission to Hospital in weeks
http://www.performance.doh.gov.uk/waiti ... ummary.xls

And at just what point were you going to mention that UK residents still have the choice of going to private hospitals, if they want to pay extra.
Or would that involve "logic that just may override emotions."
What I'd like to know is, given Europe's notorious reputation for mass protests and strikes, why don't the citizens of France or England ever take to the streets to overthrow their gov't healthcare?
I mean, it's soo repressively bad, right?

[Lora]

I just looked up some Health Insurance Quotes for me and my wife age 48/45 +1 Tobacco User (OHHHH)me....here is a direct quote.

AETNA 3000 OH

Medical $189 add Dental $221 (HSA Compatible) MONTHLY PREMIUM

Ind. Deductable $3000/Fam $6000
Max Out of Pocket $8000
Doc Visits (pay your own way)
Hospital $1,000,000



This was one typical example of 158 plans that came up. There is no reason that a lot of the millions of uninsured can't buy their own similar insurance coverage. $189 ain't much in the civilized world nowadays. If you go to the doctors alot you can buy a plan a bit more expensive that covers office visits and maybe has co-pay for $225 or so a month. The coverage and care is out there for all right now. This question is about who's gonna control this huge pot of money. I vote with the people.

Sorry, but the coverage is NOT out there for everyone. If you have a pre-existing condition, you are basically SOL. Sometimes you can get a policy if you have big bucks to spend, but many times you are turned down. It isn't just a matter of someone coming up with a few hundred dollars a month for coverage. It's not that simple.

[Rockindeano]

This was one typical example of 158 plans that came up. There is no reason that a lot of the millions of uninsured can't buy their own similar insurance coverage. $189 ain't much in the civilized world nowadays. If you go to the doctors alot you can buy a plan a bit more expensive that covers office visits and maybe has co-pay for $225 or so a month. The coverage and care is out there for all right now. This question is about who's gonna control this huge pot of money.

189 "ain't much" per month? 225 a month? Are you high? That's a lot of money to most families. Most families have house payments, car payments, food and gas, and all the other shit to deal with. Man, you are out of touch with reality.

I vote with the people.

The "people" want affordable insurance. I say the Democrats tell the republicans to go fuck themselves and pass this on their own. They can get the 60 votes needed w/o those assholes fucking things up. Pass it and leave the clueless republicans to fetch their own votes next election. Bury their sorry asses right here, right now.

[Eric]

189 "ain't much" per month? 225 a month? Are you high? That's a lot of money to most families. Most families have house payments, car payments, food and gas, and all the other shit to deal with. Man, you are out of touch with reality.

How is that a lot????? Thats so cheap I don't even believe it......

[donnaplease]

I just looked up some Health Insurance Quotes for me and my wife age 48/45 +1 Tobacco User (OHHHH)me....here is a direct quote.

AETNA 3000 OH

Medical $189 add Dental $221 (HSA Compatible) MONTHLY PREMIUM

Ind. Deductable $3000/Fam $6000
Max Out of Pocket $8000
Doc Visits (pay your own way)
Hospital $1,000,000



This was one typical example of 158 plans that came up. There is no reason that a lot of the millions of uninsured can't buy their own similar insurance coverage. $189 ain't much in the civilized world nowadays. If you go to the doctors alot you can buy a plan a bit more expensive that covers office visits and maybe has co-pay for $225 or so a month. The coverage and care is out there for all right now. This question is about who's gonna control this huge pot of money. I vote with the people.

Sorry, but the coverage is NOT out there for everyone. If you have a pre-existing condition, you are basically SOL. Sometimes you can get a policy if you have big bucks to spend, but many times you are turned down. It isn't just a matter of someone coming up with a few hundred dollars a month for coverage. It's not that simple.

You're right, there are circumstances where some folks are screwed because of pre-existing conditions or other reasons. I'm wondering in universal healthcare though, and I've heard of this happening (although I can't give specifics) if those people with pre-existing conditions or significant chronic illnesses wouldn't be denied costly care because it would be felt that it wasn't fiscally responsible to do so, if the chances of failure are at a certain level.

The example that FF lists is a very reasonable cost to pay for health insurance, but even with one child (or 10) the cost goes up significantly. Some people truly can't afford it. I feel for those folks. We need to come up with a way for all citizens to have access to health care at a cost they can afford. I just don't think universal health care is the answer.

[donnaplease]

No I'm not high, it's called priorities. Health Care is more important than a cell phone and your laptop and fancy rims. Go get some. Buy the luxuries after you've taken care of yourselves. That's the real problem here and we all should know it by now.

That's what always chapped my fanny when I worked in the doctor's office. These unmarried women would come in with 3 kids in tow (all by a different daddy) flashing their medicaid card, with cell phones on their hips and driving much nicer vehicles than I had. I have no problem with Medicaid for those that truly need it, but something gave me the impression that these folks weren't truly that needy. Lazy, maybe. But needy... naw.

[Lula]

since when is the president advocating universal heath care? i'd like to see a single payer program here which does not equate socialism. obama wants to provide another option for folks and maybe create competition for the insurance companies. it is absurd that we pay more for the same drug that is cheaper in canada and our health care costs are astronomical. something has to be done and the people want it done now!

[Lora]

No I'm not high, it's called priorities. Health Care is more important than a cell phone and your laptop and fancy rims. Go get some. Buy the luxuries after you've taken care of yourselves. That's the real problem here and we all should know it by now.

What cell phone? What laptop? What rims? Priorities? How about trying to pay for the numerous doctor visits, hospital stays, prescriptions, medical supplies and all the other fun stuff that goes with being ill. I'm sure there are some people who are irresponsible but lumping everyone who can't afford health care into that category isn't fair. I don't know enough about universal health care to have an informed opinion about it, but I do know that the health system we have now doesn't work for a multitude of people.

[donnaplease]

since when is the president advocating universal heath care? i'd like to see a single payer program here which does not equate socialism. obama wants to provide another option for folks and maybe create competition for the insurance companies. it is absurd that we pay more for the same drug that is cheaper in canada and our health care costs are astronomical. something has to be done and the people want it done now!

I believe that is exactly what it amounts to, Lula. Whether or not it's called that by him, IDK. However, it's absurd to think that this kind of 'competition' would be beneficial to insurance companies. I just don't buy it. I agree that something needs to be done, but not right now with the state of the current economy and tacking on significant taxes on the people. Prescription coverage - I totally agree with you about. It's crazy. If places like WalMart can sell prescriptions for $4 for a 30 days supply, then why can't everyone? Certainly some prescriptions cost more than others due to the cost of manufacturing them, but I think we're heading in the right direction with that.

I was watching Dick Morris this morning on Fox & Friends (hold your disgust, folks! ) and he said that in his research, people were waiting an average of 8 weeks to begin radiation after a cancer diagnosis. That's just plain crazy! In the case of my mother's cancer, the literature I read stated that it could double in size every 10 days or so. Without treatment on a tumor like that, what will 8 weeks do? This is brain cancer too, so it's not like time isn't of the essence. (She didn't get treatment by the way, because she was misdiagnosed for 2 hospitalizations and by the time the 3rd one came around, the cancer was too far advanced to really make a difference in treatment. She died about 10 days after her diagnosis).

Truly, I'm not smart enough to have all the answers, I just don't believe socialized medicine is the answer. A society that wasn't so damned greedy would be a great start!

[Ratgirl]

I just looked up some Health Insurance Quotes for me and my wife age 48/45 +1 Tobacco User (OHHHH)me....here is a direct quote.

AETNA 3000 OH

Medical $189 add Dental $221 (HSA Compatible) MONTHLY PREMIUM

Ind. Deductable $3000/Fam $6000
Max Out of Pocket $8000
Doc Visits (pay your own way)
Hospital $1,000,000



This was one typical example of 158 plans that came up. There is no reason that a lot of the millions of uninsured can't buy their own similar insurance coverage. $189 ain't much in the civilized world nowadays. If you go to the doctors alot you can buy a plan a bit more expensive that covers office visits and maybe has co-pay for $225 or so a month. The coverage and care is out there for all right now. This question is about who's gonna control this huge pot of money. I vote with the people.

Your right, that isnt bad. But when you run into 1 medical emergency the out of pocket costs add up quickly.

My daughter spent 2 1/2 days in the hospital back in february and managed to run up a $25K hospital bill and we have insurance. If you figure how much out of pocket you have to pay and your on a limited budget, your pretty much screwed. Whatever the outcome is, I hope it does change for the better.

[Melissa]

No I'm not high, it's called priorities. Health Care is more important than a cell phone and your laptop and fancy rims. Go get some. Buy the luxuries after you've taken care of yourselves. That's the real problem here and we all should know it by now.

That's what always chapped my fanny when I worked in the doctor's office. These unmarried women would come in with 3 kids in tow (all by a different daddy) flashing their medicaid card, with cell phones on their hips and driving much nicer vehicles than I had. I have no problem with Medicaid for those that truly need it, but something gave me the impression that these folks weren't truly that needy. Lazy, maybe. But needy... naw.

100% agree with both of you, and exactly my point before too about Medicaid abuse (NOT the ones who truly need it), but apparently I offended some. Not my intent, I just won't sugar coat about it, that's all.

[NealIsGod]

No I'm not high, it's called priorities. Health Care is more important than a cell phone and your laptop and fancy rims. Go get some. Buy the luxuries after you've taken care of yourselves. That's the real problem here and we all should know it by now.

Man is that right on.

[Eric]

since when is the president advocating universal heath care? i'd like to see a single payer program here which does not equate socialism. obama wants to provide another option for folks and maybe create competition for the insurance companies. it is absurd that we pay more for the same drug that is cheaper in canada and our health care costs are astronomical. something has to be done and the people want it done now!

Obama definitely wants universal health care....that is who he is. And again, that doesn't make him evil, it just makes him non-traditional, which some of us don't want.

[Lula]

i don't agree that socialist medicine or "universal" health care is what is happening. why are people so threatened by everyone having health care? we can't afford to not do it now. it is long overdue and needs to be done now. my coverage, which includes wyatt costs $768 a month. that is anthem blue cross hmo, met life dental hmo and $100 yearly allowance for vision. the bureaucracy is already in place and red tape? there is plenty. i had a horrible time trying to get trevor the follow up care he needed after being discharged from the hospital. this was a 5 week old with a heart condition and i have great coverage. the system costs too much as it is and too many people go without. too many working people go without. now is the time. obama better get it done!!

[The_Noble_Cause]

And again, that doesn't make him evil, it just makes him non-traditional, which some of us don't want.

Yea, about as “non-traditional” as these universal healthcare supporters.
I mean, just look at these bohemian radicals...

[Eric]

No I'm not high, it's called priorities. Health Care is more important than a cell phone and your laptop and fancy rims. Go get some. Buy the luxuries after you've taken care of yourselves. That's the real problem here and we all should know it by now.

What cell phone? What laptop? What rims? Priorities? How about trying to pay for the numerous doctor visits, hospital stays, prescriptions, medical supplies and all the other fun stuff that goes with being ill. I'm sure there are some people who are irresponsible but lumping everyone who can't afford health care into that category isn't fair. I don't know enough about universal health care to have an informed opinion about it, but I do know that the health system we have now doesn't work for a multitude of people.

Its broke, but it can be fixed. You don't move because you're deck need repairing.


Below is something I wrote for our local paper a few years ago:


I am writing this letter to oppose the idea that America should offer free national healthcare like Canada, where approximately 270 million fewer people live. Recent journal articles and even the CBC have cited Canadians growing dissatisfied with their health care, with long waits being the prominent issue.

Several other sources, including a recent USA today article, estimate that it now costs an annual average of over $7,000 a year to insure someone in this country. This means that the Government would need over 2 TRILLION dollars more per year to fund a universal program.

I don’t believe the government could manage health care more efficiently - ever hear of Medicare? I don’t believe that employers or individuals would have more money in their pockets without the added burden of health care expenses due to inevitable and significant tax increases to fund a government plan.

Unlike most people and politicians these days, I am not going to bash one idea without offering an alternative. I feel a better approach is to give individuals more choices so they can better target their individual needs. We do not live in a socialistic society. In a free market, people need to be responsible for their own selves (with some exception to be a compassionate society).

People need to become more aggressive in figuring out how to save healthcare dollars. Too many people think they need more than they do, over-insure themselves, and generally let their employers worry about it. Others aren’t proactive enough in their own choices they make regarding a healthy lifestyle, ranging from seeking exercise and diet solutions, to asking for generic drugs when they are available.

My 6-point Health Care plan:

1. Offer more products - There is a need and a market for a larger variety of plans, such as a more readily available emergency plan where only major health care expenses are covered for someone looking to save a buck without being too risky. Another example would be plans targeted to younger folks where they would have lower premiums but no prescription or well visit coverage.

2. Further breakdown of family plans - There is single, family2, and family3+. There needs to be greater breakdown for large families, i.e., a family with 6 kids should pay more than a family with 1 kid. I propose it should be: single, married, married+1, married2-3, married4-5, married6+. [This is kind of awkward but I understand what you’re saying…the general population might not so try to reword it….I’ve been awake for the last 18 or so hours or I’d try to work it out for you.]

3. Health Investment Accounts - You should be able to "invest" in an IRA type of health account. Essentially, this would be akin to provide health insurance options similar to different types of life insurance options. This could work like a Roth IRA, where you could invest money in the market and the money can be withdrawn tax free for a health need at anytime, or it could be used like a traditional IRA or 401K retirement plan, where you could lower your taxable income by investing into your health account, much like the benefit health savings plans (which also need greater exposure) offer now. This account could grow like a retirement account, and provide a safety net for people in their elderly years.

4. Eliminate FREE for the poor - FREE healthcare should be available ONLY for poor KIDS, combat veterans and the severely disabled.

5. Mandatory healthy living - If you are obese and continue to gain weight through poor diet and lack of exercise, then you lose coverage on issues that are affected through your bad decisions (i.e. diabetes, knee surgeries). If you suffer from typical cases of anxiety, stress, depression and refuse to properly follow doctor's instructions to get mental help, then you lose coverage on issues that are affected through your poor decision-making (high blood pressure, headaches etc.).

6. Less usage of the ER – Our ERs are over-crowded. Primary care physicians and after-hour clinics are more appropriate places to visit for non-emergency care.

[Memorex]

I'll add this. I don't really care to get into the political discussions for obvious reasons. And why health care is so political and not simply economical is beyond me. But when I hear Obama fist talk about efficiencies in the system that need to happen, I am pleased. After that, I'm like most people - I don't really know.

I went up to Idaho a few weeks back to evaluate some systems/databases for a large hospital and their various groups. Holy shit! What a nightmare. Each day, I wondered to myself how anyone actually gets healthy. 25 different systems, 52 different databases, nothing talking to each other, highly paid professionals doing low level data work because the process has not been operationalized. The way one department sends medical records to another is to go online, print them, and fax them over. Then the people who receive them scan them in and add them to their system. Um, email anyone? Shared folder? Links? And this type of thing was repeated over and over in every meeting we were in. Crazy.

But then they don't want to spend the money to fix it, of course.

Then I went to Blue Shield. Holy shit! That was so messed up, we didn’t even know where to begin. But talking about them will just make me angry. The waste is disgusting. Especially knowing that the costs for all of these inefficiencies are being paid by the consumer just trying to stay healthy or not get crushed under a mountain of medical debt.

By the way, for me and my family, I pay $1,250 per month at work for coverage.

[KenTheDude]

...

[KenTheDude]

No I'm not high, it's called priorities. Health Care is more important than a cell phone and your laptop and fancy rims. Go get some. Buy the luxuries after you've taken care of yourselves. That's the real problem here and we all should know it by now.

What cell phone? What laptop? What rims? Priorities? How about trying to pay for the numerous doctor visits, hospital stays, prescriptions, medical supplies and all the other fun stuff that goes with being ill. I'm sure there are some people who are irresponsible but lumping everyone who can't afford health care into that category isn't fair. I don't know enough about universal health care to have an informed opinion about it, but I do know that the health system we have now doesn't work for a multitude of people.

Lora,
Where I work, I share the parking lot with the free maternity clinic. Fact Finder is DEAD ON in this description. I see this sort of cheating bullshit day in and day out. They drive here in their Lincoln Navigators and Cadillac Escalades with fancy rims and several kids in tow and walk right into the FREE maternity clinic. Tell me why I should have to pay for their medical insurance??

[Ftloperry]

I have researched this a great deal as I have a relative who is ill and he cannot get affordable health insurance. He has (well, had) a full time job but they did not provide their employees with health insurance. With his salary and his medical history, there was/is NO health insurance available to him. He does not get adequate health care because of that, so your statement is not correct. I am not sure that I am a proponent of socialize health care, but something needs to be done. People DIE because they cannot get health care.

Lora I agree something has to be done. It's a sad state of times. People need health care. Sorry to hear about your relative.