OT: How's the new President doing?

[Rockindeano]

Lora,
Where I work, I share the parking lot with the free maternity clinic. Fact Finder is DEAD ON in this description. I see this sort of cheating bullshit day in and day out. They drive here in their Lincoln Navigators and Cadillac Escalades with fancy rims and several kids in tow and walk right into the FREE maternity clinic. Tell me why I should have to pay for their medical insurance??

I see the same thing at my place of employment as well. At the store, these people come in with Welfare cards and stock up and leave in their Mercedes. Yeah, mostly Blacks, some Mexicans and a few whites. We get that FF. You are painting the Blacks with an broad brush and it is a pretty one. having said that, ken, why should you pay for people medical insurance when they don't act responsibly? Easy. 1) you can't pick and choose which of the 300 million are responsible and which are not and B), it's the right thing to do. pay the tax, insure EVERYONE and let the chips fall where they may. It kills me to see these fuckers circumvent the system, but all races do it and do it at all levels. Whether it be Mr Stockman at Billionaire.com embezzling millions from employee 401k's, or Tyrone buying his Iphone on welfare checks and lopading up his Acura with free groceries paid by all us, it is going to happen. be a better person and sleep better at night knowing we did the right thing.I don't know how else to say it. We are the United States, not the pick and choose states. We either ALL do it together or we fail as a nation.

[SP Fan in Oregon]

I just looked up some Health Insurance Quotes for me and my wife age 48/45 +1 Tobacco User (OHHHH)me....here is a direct quote.

AETNA 3000 OH

Medical $189 add Dental $221 (HSA Compatible) MONTHLY PREMIUM

Ind. Deductable $3000/Fam $6000
Max Out of Pocket $8000
Doc Visits (pay your own way)
Hospital $1,000,000



This was one typical example of 158 plans that came up. There is no reason that a lot of the millions of uninsured can't buy their own similar insurance coverage. $189 ain't much in the civilized world nowadays. If you go to the doctors alot you can buy a plan a bit more expensive that covers office visits and maybe has co-pay for $225 or so a month. The coverage and care is out there for all right now. This question is about who's gonna control this huge pot of money. I vote with the people.

Sorry, but the coverage is NOT out there for everyone. If you have a pre-existing condition, you are basically SOL. Sometimes you can get a policy if you have big bucks to spend, but many times you are turned down. It isn't just a matter of someone coming up with a few hundred dollars a month for coverage. It's not that simple.

THe pre-existing condition problem is huge! Insurance companies will not cover them. If you lose your insurance through your work, you are eligible for cobra, but that only lasts 18 months. You are also eligible to pay the premiums that your employer paid for you, but the cost per month is VERY high and in most cases not affordable. However, if you do pay those premiums, the Federal portability protects you from the pre-existing condition problem. I can say that The City of San Francisco has some of the finest indigent care programs in the U.S. Any resident of the City is eligible for those programs that provide full health coverage without any cost to the patient. My friend, a recovering alcoholic, lives there. He moved there from Oregon and established residency in 30 days. He was provided a pro bono lawyer, a caseworker, a psychiatrist, a primary care doctor, all his meds for free, the lawyer got him SSDI, $1900.00 per month for a minimum of three years before the first review, and is paying for his chemo treatments at San Francisco General Hospital. I think a lot of times people who need the health care just don't know that these programs are available and slip through the cracks. Even Oregon has the Oregon Health Plan for people who are otherwise not covered by regular insurance carriers because of pre-exissting conditions. So, perhaps people who cannot find health coverage any other way, should move to an area where health care if available, if such a move is possible.

[Marabelle]

Being rich is just being able to be looked at and thought of as having money. Just because you are driving the car does not mean you are wealthy or have alot of money. It's status. It's like the gold chains, the expensive cars and the jewelry that the Hollywood stars wear everyday. A lot of their homes are mortgaged way beyond what they can afford and they get foreclosed and kicked out of their homes as well as these poor people who are driving up to the welfare office pretending they have something when they have nothing at all. Of course some of these people are extremely wealthy; but take some of the rich--wealthy and poor as well. So you can't say it's because they are of a certain race or economic range. People are people and everybody makes bad mistakes and everybody wants to look like they have more than they have so they climb into the car or they put on the designer clothing or wear the diamond ear ring or ring on their finger and parade for the camera or the folks sitting in their cars who are angry and wonder how can they afford to do that when I can't and I work everyday. You believe what you wish; but poor people are poor and wealthy people are wealthy and there are alot of people in between and below the poverty level who are probably smiling now; glad that they fooled the rest of us into thinking they have money when they really don't.

[SP Fan in Oregon]

Being rich is just being able to be looked at and thought of as having money. Just because you are driving the car does not mean you are wealthy or have alot of money. It's status. It's like the gold chains, the expensive cars and the jewelry that the Hollywood stars wear everyday. A lot of their homes are mortgaged way beyond what they can afford and they get foreclosed and kicked out of their homes as well as these poor people who are driving up to the welfare office pretending they have something when they have nothing at all. Of course some of these people are extremely wealthy; but take some of the rich--wealthy and poor as well. So you can't say it's because they are of a certain race or economic range. People are people and everybody makes bad mistakes and everybody wants to look like they have more than they have so they climb into the car or they put on the designer clothing or wear the diamond ear ring or ring on their finger and parade for the camera or the folks sitting in their cars who are angry and wonder how can they afford to do that when I can't and I work everyday. You believe what you wish; but poor people are poor and wealthy people are wealthy and there are alot of people in between and below the poverty level who are probably smiling now; glad that they fooled the rest of us into thinking they have money when they really don't.

I have a client that in 2006 was worth $150 million. With the economic downturn his business was negatively affected causing him to lose his net worth, down to less than 1/2 million.
From watching his life for the past 7 years, from wealth to financial devastation, I can tell you that his life has MORE meaning to it now by re-establishing his relationships and slowing down, then it ever
did when he was richer than most. I think he is richer now in what counts. The meek shall inherit the earth............ I think that is true.

[Eric]

So now there is no tax revenue at all for SCHIP via Hav-A-Tampa. Jee that worked well, and incredibly fast too. Careful what ya wish for Dean.[/quote]

Always remember.....poor people don't create jobs, people with money create jobs.

[G.I.Jim]

So now there is no tax revenue at all for SCHIP via Hav-A-Tampa. Jee that worked well, and incredibly fast too. Careful what ya wish for Dean.

Always remember.....poor people don't create jobs, people with money create jobs.[/quote]

Amen. You said it all right there in one sentence!

[Rockindeano]

So now there is no tax revenue at all for SCHIP via Hav-A-Tampa. Jee that worked well, and incredibly fast too. Careful what ya wish for Dean.

Always remember.....poor people don't create jobs, people with money create jobs.

Amen. You said it all right there in one sentence!

Who the fuck pays YOUR salary Jim?

I do. Lora does. Lula does. We ALL do. Rich, poor, black brown yellow and white.

There's your fucking wink.

[Rockindeano]

I also have to laugh at all you clueless brain dead conservative republicans. Last year, with the economy in dire shape, you all said it was fine as W headed the White House. Obama takes over, the economy has stopped shitting itself and appears to be turning around, and you stupid fucks paint the picture black.

[RossValoryRocks]

I also have to laugh at all you clueless brain dead conservative republicans. Last year, with the economy in dire shape, you all said it was fine as W headed the White House. Obama takes over, the economy has stopped shitting itself and appears to be turning around, and you stupid fucks paint the picture black.

I think Deano most TRUE conservatives would say, ok...we spent ourselves out of recession (almost) now how are you going to pay for it??

Obama and the libs: TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX.

Eventually you run out of people to tax, because they either stop buying products to conserve money, or move their money where the government cannot touch it.

So revenue goes down, and to make up for the short fall, what happens??? MORE TAX.

It is a never ending downward cycle.

[Eric]

I also have to laugh at all you clueless brain dead conservative republicans. Last year, with the economy in dire shape, you all said it was fine as W headed the White House. Obama takes over, the economy has stopped shitting itself and appears to be turning around, and you stupid fucks paint the picture black.

Where do you get this shit that the economy has turned around?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/31526130


Also.....you Libs said the economy was bad all decade, when it wasn't. By last year at this time it was obvious there were some problems a brewin'.

[Rockindeano]

Fuck the rich. I hope you cocksuckers who "take your money and run for 4 years"(it will be , can look yourselves in the mirror. How the fuck you live with your greedy selves?

And for all that is fucking Holy, stop with your articles. Articles don't mean shit. The human touch, the feel on the streets, that's what matters. I can care less what filthy conservative rag you pull your next article from, it isn't gospel and sure as fuck doesn't resonate with the majority of the American folk.

[Marabelle]

I think (and I'm so far from wealthy) most of the rich can look very nicely in that mirror. It is the protection of the brightest and the best; the rest can go fuck themeselves. If you can save yourself from drowning then that is what you do. this is what most people will do; the first instinct is self preservation. the unfortunate thing or fortunte thing is that middle america is where the shit has hit the fan and they're drowning just like everyone else. This is why there are so many changes in America. otherwise the majority of people would give a rat's ass about the poor if they were able to maintain their current livelihood and their jobs and their homes; they would not give a fuck about anyone else.

[Rockindeano]

No one gets free car insurance or home owners, health should be treated no differently and people should be obligated to at a minimum join the game and help out.

Go back to school.

You are comparing cars and driving, both privileges, to one's health? Health is a God given right, you know, that guy up there with his office in the clouds you Cons all congregate around and call yourself the God party? Health is an alienable right, NOT a privilege.

No wonder you are out of power and so far from it you can't even see it.

[SP Fan in Oregon]

No one gets free car insurance or home owners, health should be treated no differently and people should be obligated to at a minimum join the game and help out.

Go back to school.

You are comparing cars and driving, both privileges, to one's health? Health is a God given right, you know, that guy up there with his office in the clouds you Cons all congregate around and call yourself the God party? Health is an alienable right, NOT a privilege.

No wonder you are out of power and so far from it you can't even see it.

Right? Excuse me but I don't think so. Morally a right, maybe. But not an out right Right. People need to reasses their priorities towards healthcare and quit taking it for granted. If you can't drive without car insurance you can't live without health insurance. Seems fair to me.
Now lets find a way for folks to get some. Equally.

There is no question that health insurance costs are killing people. Thank God I never get sick and so my deductible is $7500.00 per year before Blue Cross pays a DIME out, plus I have to pay premiums of $663.00 every three months and 20% of any costs after my deductible is exhausted. BUT, that means that I have insurance only for a major illness, God forbid. I think part of the problem is that people are going to the doctor for every sniffle. Premiums are high for those people because they want the Cadillac policy that pays for doctor visits. If the government would provide a health care coverage for everyone that would provide MAJOR medical for these type of huge illnesses, so that people don't go bankrupt if such a thing should occur, that would be a good thing. I could literally cancel my current policy and save myself $10,000.00 per year at a minimum. The current system is broken from both ends, for rich and poor. Insuring yourself and your family so you don't find yourself bankrupt and still not really going to the doctor afterall because it still costs money to go. That's fucked up!!

[Rockindeano]

No one gets free car insurance or home owners, health should be treated no differently and people should be obligated to at a minimum join the game and help out.

Go back to school.

You are comparing cars and driving, both privileges, to one's health? Health is a God given right, you know, that guy up there with his office in the clouds you Cons all congregate around and call yourself the God party? Health is an alienable right, NOT a privilege.

No wonder you are out of power and so far from it you can't even see it.

Right? Excuse me but I don't think so. Morally a right, maybe. But not an out right Right. People need to reasses their priorities towards healthcare and quit taking it for granted. If you can't drive without car insurance you can't live without health insurance. Seems fair to me.
Now lets find a way for folks to get some. Equally.

I don't quite understand your swimming here. You are all over the river. First you compare driving and auto insurance to living and health insurance- an argument that is beyond ridiculous- Now you say health, or healthcare is "morally right" but not an outright right. I am confused. People should not have to reasses their priorities towards health care. This is where we disagree vehemently. No one person can predict their future. Christ, if I know I am going to come down with pneumonia, Lou Gehrig's disease or even aids in 4 years, I would start preparing for it now by gobbling up all the fucking insurance I could buy. I do NOT know what my future entails and neither do you- People need to live their life- they need to live life to the fullest and know in the back of their mind if God forbid, something paramount were to happen to them, their loved ones and themselves would be ok. We should have that piece of mind, that right to live without worry. The human body breaks down much more than any machine; As an American, I want my fellow citizens to help me out and if one of them fall ill, I want them to be able to lean on me; you know, one for all and all for one. You talk about America "getting back to great again," we need to be a united nation, a nation of one and not this me myself and I bullshit that so many people have adopted as a personal slogan.

[7 Wishes]

I had forgotten, in my lengthy absence, how little I missed these political discussions. I have far too much on my mind these days to even have the capacity to form an opinion anymore.

Regardless of who was to blame, we WERE in the shitter. The marginal tax rate hasn't increased...yet. Hopefully Obama's fiscal policy works, because if it doesn't, we're more fucked than Madonna, wearing nothing but chaps and that annoying pointy leather bra, at a all-male Puerto Rican community college.

[7 Wishes]

...and if one of them fall ill, I want them to be able to lean on me; you know, one for all and all for one..

Right on, brother.

[Rockindeano]

There is no question that health insurance costs are killing people. Thank God I never get sick and so my deductible is $7500.00 per year before Blue Cross pays a DIME out, plus I have to pay premiums of $663.00 every three months and 20% of any costs after my deductible is exhausted. BUT, that means that I have insurance only for a major illness, God forbid. I think part of the problem is that people are going to the doctor for every sniffle. Premiums are high for those people because they want the Cadillac policy that pays for doctor visits.

You need to read up on the costs of medical coverage. See "Preventative Health Measures." Going to the doctor for "sniffles" may not really be the case. A "sniffle" may mean a lump on the breast, or tumor in the brain, or some other fucked up disease. You need to take the preventative approach to ward off some of the big boys coming down the pike.

[Rockindeano]

I had forgotten, in my lengthy absence, how little I missed these political discussions. I have far too much on my mind these days to even have the capacity to form an opinion anymore.

Regardless of who was to blame, we WERE in the shitter. The marginal tax rate hasn't increased...yet. Hopefully Obama's fiscal policy works, because if it doesn't, we're more fucked than Madonna, wearing nothing but chaps and that annoying pointy leather bra, at a all-male Puerto Rican community college.

7 Wishes, call me crazy, but one of my dreams is to have a nice 5 hour visit with Madonna and fuck her every way the street turns. I bet she can suck a taxi cab driver through immigration. I would fuck her so long and hard I either will die of a coronary or she will have my seamen coming out of her nose and eye sockets.

[SP Fan in Oregon]

There is no question that health insurance costs are killing people. Thank God I never get sick and so my deductible is $7500.00 per year before Blue Cross pays a DIME out, plus I have to pay premiums of $663.00 every three months and 20% of any costs after my deductible is exhausted. BUT, that means that I have insurance only for a major illness, God forbid. I think part of the problem is that people are going to the doctor for every sniffle. Premiums are high for those people because they want the Cadillac policy that pays for doctor visits.

You need to read up on the costs of medical coverage. See "Preventative Health Measures." Going to the doctor for "sniffles" may not really be the case. A "sniffle" may mean a lump on the breast, or tumor in the brain, or some other fucked up disease. You need to take the preventative approach to ward off some of the big boys coming down the pike.

woo hoo....... This post sounds faintly like a medical opinion..... I bet you have fantasies about being my doctor.

[7 Wishes]

I don't know. I'm just enjoying reading "The Terror" and listening to "Four Leaf Clover" right now. Fuck, Metallica kicks such ass.

[Rockindeano]

I don't know. I'm just enjoying reading "The Terror" and listening to "Four Leaf Clover" right now. Fuck, Metallica kicks such ass.

Dude I used to hate them. Was a huge Journey fan at the time, and was an usher for the arena where I went to college as a part time gig(beer money). They came to town and I was blown away. They are loud, tight and explosive. Definitely HOF worthy.

[7 Wishes]

Back when I was in college - and I harken back to the waning days of the Reagan Administration - you could get a sixer of Busch Lite at the petrol station across the street for $1.09. Of course, in those days, I was known as "Two Beer Dan" because I had less tolerance than a lesbian feminist social worker at a mosh pit at the Citadel.

[Rockindeano]

Back when I was in college - and I harken back to the waning days of the Reagan Administration - you could get a sixer of Busch Lite at the petrol station across the street for $1.09. Of course, in those days, I was known as "Two Beer Dan" because I had less tolerance than a lesbian feminist social worker at a mosh pit at the Citadel.

Aww, busch Lite, yes...I had to settle on Heidelbuzz, Keystone Light Ice Draft, Strohs 30 paks, Schafer, Olympia or Hamms. Shit beer like Coors I couldn't even afford. Now I look down at Coors. What crap.

[donnaplease]

No one gets free car insurance or home owners, health should be treated no differently and people should be obligated to at a minimum join the game and help out.

Go back to school.

You are comparing cars and driving, both privileges, to one's health? Health is a God given right, you know, that guy up there with his office in the clouds you Cons all congregate around and call yourself the God party? Health is an alienable right, NOT a privilege.

No wonder you are out of power and so far from it you can't even see it.

Right? Excuse me but I don't think so. Morally a right, maybe. But not an out right Right. People need to reasses their priorities towards healthcare and quit taking it for granted. If you can't drive without car insurance you can't live without health insurance. Seems fair to me.
Now lets find a way for folks to get some. Equally.

I don't quite understand your swimming here. You are all over the river. First you compare driving and auto insurance to living and health insurance- an argument that is beyond ridiculous- Now you say health, or healthcare is "morally right" but not an outright right. I am confused. People should not have to reasses their priorities towards health care. This is where we disagree vehemently. No one person can predict their future. Christ, if I know I am going to come down with pneumonia, Lou Gehrig's disease or even aids in 4 years, I would start preparing for it now by gobbling up all the fucking insurance I could buy. I do NOT know what my future entails and neither do you- People need to live their life- they need to live life to the fullest and know in the back of their mind if God forbid, something paramount were to happen to them, their loved ones and themselves would be ok. We should have that piece of mind, that right to live without worry. The human body breaks down much more than any machine; As an American, I want my fellow citizens to help me out and if one of them fall ill, I want them to be able to lean on me; you know, one for all and all for one. You talk about America "getting back to great again," we need to be a united nation, a nation of one and not this me myself and I bullshit that so many people have adopted as a personal slogan.

With rights come responsibilities. Unfortunately there are too many out there that feel no responsibility toward anyone. They take and take and don't give anything back. So, do you think the government should provide life insurance too? What else?

You talk about rights and how we should look out for each other, have their backs so to speak. We do that. When I go to a Relay for Life or Memory Walk, that's where our people stick together and show their love for each other. Not being forced to pay for things because we're taxed to death. It's impersonal and just plain sad. IDK what it's like where you guys live, but I live in a small rural community where people know and care about each other.

The liberal mantra seems to be 'if it feels good do it, someone else can clean up the mess later'. You and Lula have said that the people WANT universal health care. From what I've read and seen, more and more people are expressing fears about it, and less and less confidence in the man who's trying to get it done.

Health care coverage is not an inalienable right. You have a responsibility to provide for your family, just as I do for mine. When you do everything for someone, they don't learn to take care of themselves. Then we develop an apathetic, weak society.

[KenTheDude]

I had forgotten, in my lengthy absence, how little I missed these political discussions. I have far too much on my mind these days to even have the capacity to form an opinion anymore.

Regardless of who was to blame, we WERE in the shitter. The marginal tax rate hasn't increased...yet. Hopefully Obama's fiscal policy works, because if it doesn't, we're more fucked than Madonna, wearing nothing but chaps and that annoying pointy leather bra, at a all-male Puerto Rican community college.

7 Wishes, call me crazy, but one of my dreams is to have a nice 5 hour visit with Madonna and fuck her every way the street turns. I bet she can suck a taxi cab driver through immigration. I would fuck her so long and hard I either will die of a coronary or she will have my seamen coming out of her nose and eye sockets.

Seamen, LOL

[Rockindeano]

The liberal mantra seems to be 'if it feels good do it, someone else can clean up the mess later'. You and Lula have said that the people WANT universal health care. From what I've read and seen, more and more people are expressing fears about it, and less and less confidence in the man who's trying to get it done.

No, we have BOTH said the people want affordable accessible H/C. I personally think Hillary could have gotten a great Universal H/C system in place had she stayed in te US Senate. From what you've heard or seen is people, likely the conservative mantra, err, media, ie, Fox news, have told you this is the case. People overwhelmingly want a change in the current H/C crisis. You don't seem to want any change whatsoever. Perhaps you live in the perfect community/state?

Health care coverage is not an inalienable right.

Canada seems to think so. The UK and France seem to think it is. So does Germany, Australia, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Italy, Greece and even, cough cough, Cuba. The United States is the only state in the world, where it has a system of health care for profit. Only in these United States, can people make a living off of sick needy people. Congratulations.

And you know what Donna? All those states I just listed- all have BETTER health coverage than we do here in the United States.

[gtrplr1960]

And you know what Donna? All those states I just listed- all have BETTER health coverage than we do here in the United States

No way!

In addition, people do not want a government run health care system. Where did that come from? I agree we need a tune up to the system but it would be insane to have the government in charge of our health care system.

[donnaplease]

The liberal mantra seems to be 'if it feels good do it, someone else can clean up the mess later'. You and Lula have said that the people WANT universal health care. From what I've read and seen, more and more people are expressing fears about it, and less and less confidence in the man who's trying to get it done.

No, we have BOTH said the people want affordable accessible H/C. I personally think Hillary could have gotten a great Universal H/C system in place had she stayed in te US Senate. From what you've heard or seen is people, likely the conservative mantra, err, media, ie, Fox news, have told you this is the case. People overwhelmingly want a change in the current H/C crisis. You don't seem to want any change whatsoever. Perhaps you live in the perfect community/state?

Health care coverage is not an inalienable right.

Canada seems to think so. The UK and France seem to think it is. So does Germany, Australia, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Italy, Greece and even, cough cough, Cuba. The United States is the only state in the world, where it has a system of health care for profit. Only in these United States, can people make a living off of sick needy people. Congratulations.

And you know what Donna? All those states I just listed- all have BETTER health coverage than we do here in the United States.

No, hun. That's not true. I have said in this very thread over the past few pages that I DO want health care AND insurance reform. I just think there's a better way to do it than just throwing up our hands and giving up on personal responsibility. I've personally dealt with several different health insurance plans, I work with many private and government run health care plans, I've been on COBRA (which should be renamed CROCK) and I've even been responsible for choosing a health care plan for employees when I worked as an administrator of an assisted living facility.

I disagree that those countries have better health coverage. More doesn't always mean better. Those of us who work in the health care industry see things that folks who don't... don't. Listen, I've said it already and I'll say it again, the system needs work. Just not the way BO is suggesting.

As for making a living off of sick, needy people... I guess I do that. I'm a NURSE, it's my job.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You post for me the next time you see an American flying to Italy or Cuba or England for major Surgery.

http://www.indusbusinessjournal.com/ME2 ... 0BF8BD2F70