OT: How's the new President doing?

[The_Noble_Cause]

You should feel no different making money off of sick people than you would if you worked with well people at a gym..making money is not evil folks! An honest living is a good thing.

Never heard of a gym denying membership due to body mass index, or having whole departments devoted to finding ways out of claims.

[SP Fan in Oregon]

And you know what Donna? All those states I just listed- all have BETTER health coverage than we do here in the United States

No way!

In addition, people do not want a government run health care system. Where did that come from? I agree we need a tune up to the system but it would be insane to have the government in charge of our health care system.

Last time I took Geography in High School, these places were COUNTRIES, not states?
The UK, France, Germany, Australia, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Italy, Greece and Cuba and The United States.

[verslibre]

7 Wishes, call me crazy, but one of my dreams is to have a nice 5 hour visit with Madonna and fuck her every way the street turns. I bet she can suck a taxi cab driver through immigration. I would fuck her so long and hard I either will die of a coronary or she will have my seamen coming out of her nose and eye sockets.

Your urethra must be the size of Gamera's!

[The_Noble_Cause]

In addition, people do not want a government run health care system. Where did that come from?

The poll numbers on a "public option" seems to indicate otherwise.

..it would be insane to have the government in charge of our health care system.

It already is.
It's called Medicare, and relative to the HMOs, it does ok.

[G.I.Jim]

You post for me the next time you see an American flying to Italy or Cuba or England for major Surgery.

http://www.indusbusinessjournal.com/ME2 ... 0BF8BD2F70

Yeah...like we can trust someone named "Kevin"!

[G.I.Jim]

And you know what Donna? All those states I just listed- all have BETTER health coverage than we do here in the United States

No way!

In addition, people do not want a government run health care system. Where did that come from? I agree we need a tune up to the system but it would be insane to have the government in charge of our health care system.

Last time I took Geography in High School, these places were COUNTRIES, not states?
The UK, France, Germany, Australia, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Italy, Greece and Cuba and The United States.

Gtrplr1960 didn't post that...he quoted Deano's post. I concur though. They ARE countries.

[Rockindeano]

And you know what Donna? All those states I just listed- all have BETTER health coverage than we do here in the United States

No way!

In addition, people do not want a government run health care system. Where did that come from? I agree we need a tune up to the system but it would be insane to have the government in charge of our health care system.

Last time I took Geography in High School, these places were COUNTRIES, not states?
The UK, France, Germany, Australia, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Italy, Greece and Cuba and The United States.

In political analysis, and conversation, countries are referred to as states. Why do you think Hillary Clinton is Secretary of State? She isn't known as Secretary of country?

You stick to law and let me handle the rest, and I mean all of the rest.

[Eric]

Fuck the rich. I hope you cocksuckers who "take your money and run for 4 years"(it will be , can look yourselves in the mirror. How the fuck you live with your greedy selves?

And for all that is fucking Holy, stop with your articles. Articles don't mean shit. The human touch, the feel on the streets, that's what matters. I can care less what filthy conservative rag you pull your next article from, it isn't gospel and sure as fuck doesn't resonate with the majority of the American folk.

What are you smoking? People are more pessimistic about the next 12 months as they've ever been. Unemployment is worse, market is worse.....come on Dean. You are being ridiculous.

[Rockindeano]

As for making a living off of sick, needy people... I guess I do that. I'm a NURSE, it's my job.

I was referring not to doctors and nurses, but health care companies and political lobbyists on behalf of the system.

Sorry for the muddy language.

[G.I.Jim]

Fuck the rich. I hope you cocksuckers who "take your money and run for 4 years"(it will be , can look yourselves in the mirror. How the fuck you live with your greedy selves?

And for all that is fucking Holy, stop with your articles. Articles don't mean shit. The human touch, the feel on the streets, that's what matters. I can care less what filthy conservative rag you pull your next article from, it isn't gospel and sure as fuck doesn't resonate with the majority of the American folk.

What are you smoking? People are more pessimistic about the next 12 months as they've ever been. Unemployment is worse, market is worse.....come on Dean. You are being ridiculous.

Obama is like a good fortune cookie...he has ALL the answers.

[donnaplease]

As for making a living off of sick, needy people... I guess I do that. I'm a NURSE, it's my job.

I was referring not to doctors and nurses, but health care companies and political lobbyists on behalf of the system.

Sorry for the muddy language.

Therein lies the problem... Can we waterboard those guys???

[Rockindeano]

I'd like to remind everyone that our current Government Systems are broke..Medicade broke..Medicare broke..Social Security they tell us is going broke..Amtrak BROKE..and you want to trust them with your health?

You do not know of which you speak.

Social Security is not broke and in fact it never had any surplus money. he baby boom caused it to get out of tilt. It is not a business. Amtrak never has made a penny and never will. They get a paltry 2-3% of the federal transportation budget, yet still is the 5th biggest carrier in the US. The airlines would all be broke or worse off than Amtrak if they received that % of aid. Amtrak does it with mirrors. Airlines do not make money by themselves. Airports, facilities, securities, traffic controllers are all paid by you guessed it, the taxpayer. So next time you go to an airport to catch a plane, thank all of us.

What's next, the USPS? They aren't a federal entity so stop typing right now.

[Eric]

i don't agree that socialist medicine or "universal" health care is what is happening.

If you choose to stay with your employer private health insurance Obama wants to tax the benefit amount as income. So, essentially...we'll be forced into Government universal coverage. I know I won't want to be hit twice...so I'd switch to Universal. And I believe my quality of care will decrease.

[Lula]

The liberal mantra seems to be 'if it feels good do it, someone else can clean up the mess later'. You and Lula have said that the people WANT universal health care. From what I've read and seen, more and more people are expressing fears about it, and less and less confidence in the man who's trying to get it done.

i have not said this. i've said people want to see changes made, to see reform. i don't recall saying that "people want universal health care." polls show that people want to see changes in our current system that does not serve, even the insured, well.

[Rockindeano]

i don't agree that socialist medicine or "universal" health care is what is happening.

If you choose to stay with your employer private health insurance Obama wants to tax the benefit amount as income. So, essentially...we'll be forced into Government universal coverage. I know I won't want to be hit twice...so I'd switch to Universal. And I believe my quality of care will decrease.

I got news for you. Your current private insurance is NON taxed. It's a free ride. That's bullshit. This whole argument on your side is half assed.

The plan that they are going to put forth consists of a choice. You can either choose private or public. This will help small business immensely. As it is currently, small businesses cannot afford to insure their employees. By having some employees(the one's not privately insured), choose public, the burden will be lifted off small business.


It's time for change and goddammit I hope the Democrats say fuck you to the republicans and get it done. They have the 60 votes. They don't need republicans.

[donnaplease]

The liberal mantra seems to be 'if it feels good do it, someone else can clean up the mess later'. You and Lula have said that the people WANT universal health care. From what I've read and seen, more and more people are expressing fears about it, and less and less confidence in the man who's trying to get it done.

i have not said this. i've said people want to see changes made, to see reform. i don't recall saying that "people want universal health care." polls show that people want to see changes in our current system that does not serve, even the insured, well.

OK, you're right. You are opposed to the term 'universal health care'. My bad. But that's just semantics. Whenever a reference is made to the Canadian health care system, and how great it is, that to me is a statement of wanting universal health care. There are statistics out there that suggest that Canadians (for example) are not as healthy as Americans when it comes to things like cancer. And there are also suggestions that people would not get elective procedures (hip/knee replacements, etc) if they had other co-morbidities (or simply advanced age) that would make them a poor rehab candidate. Then who's to say that we're not heading down the path of euthanasia, not unlike some European countries. Talk about a slippery slope. (And before anyone tells me that I'm reaching, I work with the elderly and infirm, and I see folks who simply 'exist' with no quality of life to be found. I don't agree with it at all, but I could see at some point in the future with the way things are heading, just putting them "to sleep" to save the taxpayers the burden of caring for them. I did a report on that for an Ethics class I took a few years ago, and it was chilling.)

I don't think you'd be able to find any person who is completely 100% happy with whatever program they happen to have, I'm certainly not. So we agree on something. Yay! I think tort reform and cost containment are the 2 places to start, both of which could potentially make the system less expensive and therefore more accessible to folks who perhaps couldn't afford it previously.

[donnaplease]

i don't agree that socialist medicine or "universal" health care is what is happening.

If you choose to stay with your employer private health insurance Obama wants to tax the benefit amount as income. So, essentially...we'll be forced into Government universal coverage. I know I won't want to be hit twice...so I'd switch to Universal. And I believe my quality of care will decrease.

I got news for you. Your current private insurance is NON taxed. It's a free ride. That's bullshit. This whole argument on your side is half assed.

The plan that they are going to put forth consists of a choice. You can either choose private or public. This will help small business immensely. As it is currently, small businesses cannot afford to insure their employees. By having some employees(the one's not privately insured), choose public, the burden will be lifted off small business.


It's time for change and goddammit I hope the Democrats say fuck you to the republicans and get it done. They have the 60 votes. They don't need republicans.

So, Dean, does that mean that if I choose to keep my insurance plan through my employer that I'm not taxed for the public health care program? Is that a tax exemption for me? If not, that means I'm paying twice, both for my coverage and yours (or whoever's). I understand what Eric's saying I think. It's kinda crazy to think that if I can get insurance for $50 a month that I'd go ahead and pay $100 for it just because my employer offered it. I would be probably coerced into switching to save that money. It's kinda like a venus fly trap... once you get sucked in, you're screwed!

BTW, if you're all kumbaya about health care wanting us to reach out and do for each other, why would you want to invade the will of a large portion of the American population just because you have the 60 votes? That certainly isn't very charitable...

[Rockindeano]

i don't agree that socialist medicine or "universal" health care is what is happening.

If you choose to stay with your employer private health insurance Obama wants to tax the benefit amount as income. So, essentially...we'll be forced into Government universal coverage. I know I won't want to be hit twice...so I'd switch to Universal. And I believe my quality of care will decrease.

I got news for you. Your current private insurance is NON taxed. It's a free ride. That's bullshit. This whole argument on your side is half assed.

The plan that they are going to put forth consists of a choice. You can either choose private or public. This will help small business immensely. As it is currently, small businesses cannot afford to insure their employees. By having some employees(the one's not privately insured), choose public, the burden will be lifted off small business.


It's time for change and goddammit I hope the Democrats say fuck you to the republicans and get it done. They have the 60 votes. They don't need republicans.

So, Dean, does that mean that if I choose to keep my insurance plan through my employer that I'm not taxed for the public health care program? Is that a tax exemption for me? If not, that means I'm paying twice, both for my coverage and yours (or whoever's). I understand what Eric's saying I think. It's kinda crazy to think that if I can get insurance for $50 a month that I'd go ahead and pay $100 for it just because my employer offered it. I would be probably coerced into switching to save that money. It's kinda like a venus fly trap... once you get sucked in, you're screwed!

BTW, if you're all kumbaya about health care wanting us to reach out and do for each other, why would you want to invade the will of a large portion of the American population just because you have the 60 votes? That certainly isn't very charitable...

I make no bones about what it is I want. I want every citizen covered. Do it right and it will save us money. I say screw the republicans. They have zero voice anyway, and it's well deserved I might add. The people spoke, and now the Dems should steamroll their agenda through. Get this done. The republicans don't give one iota of shit about the 50 million uninsured.

[Rockindeano]

You know what? What if every citizen who is covered, or even half of every citizen who is covered, drops their coverage and just uses the ER as a walk in and doesn't pay the bill? I bet you then that you all will want some structured change.

Insure everyone, institute a culture of preventative care, and keep people from using the ER as a doctor's office, as it is used for now. Do it right, and everyone one wins.

[SP Fan in Oregon]

i don't agree that socialist medicine or "universal" health care is what is happening.

If you choose to stay with your employer private health insurance Obama wants to tax the benefit amount as income. So, essentially...we'll be forced into Government universal coverage. I know I won't want to be hit twice...so I'd switch to Universal. And I believe my quality of care will decrease.

I got news for you. Your current private insurance is NON taxed. It's a free ride. That's bullshit. This whole argument on your side is half assed.

The plan that they are going to put forth consists of a choice. You can either choose private or public. This will help small business immensely. As it is currently, small businesses cannot afford to insure their employees. By having some employees(the one's not privately insured), choose public, the burden will be lifted off small business.


It's time for change and goddammit I hope the Democrats say fuck you to the republicans and get it done. They have the 60 votes. They don't need republicans.[/quote

______________________________________________________________

Deano, hold onto your panties........................ The private health insurance companies won't make it financially, if the government is offering public health insurance. When the government becomes an insurance competitor with private insurance, and the flood of people now insured with private insurance, or employer private insurance move their coverage to public insurance, then that means there are fewer members in the private insurance pool. That means premiums go even higher for each member remaining with private insurance. Then those members can't afford the insurance through their private carrier, so they move to the public program, thereby exaerbating the loss of members in private insurance. Guess what...??? The result will be NO private insurance, only the public insurance and Universal Health Care for all. Your health care provider will then be a lacky of the Federal Government, and since all the profit is taken out of medicine, there will be less health care providers. We will have health care as good as the USPS operates! So to say there is a choice. For a while, but the end game is not good.

[donnaplease]

I make no bones about what it is I want. I want every citizen covered. Do it right and it will save us money. I say screw the republicans. They have zero voice anyway, and it's well deserved I might add. The people spoke, and now the Dems should steamroll their agenda through. Get this done. The republicans don't give one iota of shit about the 50 million uninsured.

So you're patriotic until you can be a bully, is that it? May I remind you that under a republican president, prescription coverage for Medicare recipients happened. It's not a great program, but it's something that they didn't have before.

They could steamroll it, but many won't do it, because they care more about their political career than doing what (they think) is right. And that's ALL politicians. Arlen Specter is a perfect example.

[donnaplease]

Do it right, and everyone one wins.

Amen. Smartest thing I've heard you say in a while. This just isn't the right way, IMO.

[Rockindeano]

Deano, hold onto your panties........................ The private health insurance companies won't make it financially, if the government is offering public health insurance. When the government becomes an insurance competitor with private insurance, and the flood of people now insured with private insurance, or employer private insurance move their coverage to public insurance, then that means there are fewer members in the private insurance pool. That means premiums go even higher for each member remaining with private insurance. Then those members can't afford the insurance through their private carrier, so they move to the public program, thereby exaerbating the loss of members in private insurance. Guess what...??? The result will be NO private insurance, only the public insurance and Universal Health Care for all. Your health care provider will then be a lacky of the Federal Government, and since all the profit is taken out of medicine, there will be less health care providers. We will have health care as good as the USPS operates! So to say there is a choice. For a while, but the end game is not good.

Wrong.

The private health insurers will concentrate on their groups. Notice now that when you either have an existing condition, or if you are covered and get an condition, they drop you anyways, so.......in the spirit of competition, the US Govt will not drop a person with a condition like the private carrier will. And, in the spirit of competition, the private carriers can try to offer supreme service compared to the feds...you Cons always speak of competition and how bad the Govt does things...

Also, do some homework. The USPS not a government entity. They have actually made money the last 7 or 8 out 10 years or so, but their profits have declined big time due to the internet(emails). Tell me a better deal anywhere than a stamped letter from Seattle to Tampa Bay, Florida for 43 cents? You would be hard pressed to do so.

[Rockindeano]

Do it right, and everyone one wins.

Amen. Smartest thing I've heard you say in a while. This just isn't the right way, IMO.

Then when in the Hell is your side going to present any plan at all? A Universal Plan, or a Choice Plan are BOTH better than the current situation. The republicans cannot and will not produce any plan because they are steadfast against getting the poor help. That is fact. They will choose to bicker and berate Obama and the administration and pull out all the fear mongering ads they can afford. You watch, your TV will be nothing but scare tactics as we get closer to a vote.

[donnaplease]

Do it right, and everyone one wins.

Amen. Smartest thing I've heard you say in a while. This just isn't the right way, IMO.

Then when in the Hell is your side going to present any plan at all? A Universal Plan, or a Choice Plan are BOTH better than the current situation. The republicans cannot and will not produce any plan because they are steadfast against getting the poor help. That is fact. They will choose to bicker and berate Obama and the administration and pull out all the fear mongering ads they can afford. You watch, your TV will be nothing but scare tactics as we get closer to a vote.

Re-read what you wrote. DO IT RIGHT. Rushing it through isn't right, and it is scary. And no, Dean, it's not fact that the republicans are against getting the poor help. That's just crazy. Making outlandish statements like that diminishes the rest of your point. You can do better than that. Talk about scare tactics. Sheesh!

Edit to add: As hard as it is to believe, I don't have a 'side' in this. I WANT to see reform, just not in the same vein that BO is suggesting.

[Eric]

Tell me a better deal anywhere than a stamped letter from Seattle to Tampa Bay, Florida for 43 cents? You would be hard pressed to do so.

A free e-mail

[Eric]

I make no bones about what it is I want. I want every citizen covered. Do it right and it will save us money. I say screw the republicans. They have zero voice anyway, and it's well deserved I might add. The people spoke, and now the Dems should steamroll their agenda through. Get this done. The republicans don't give one iota of shit about the 50 million uninsured.

Tell your boy to be honest about what he wants then. Lula thinks he just wants those 50 million (which isn't really 50) covered. What he wants is to tax everyone who doesn't take the low quality GovernmentCare...so as to force everyone into it. SO, he wants Universal Health Care.

And its 46million...not 50million...and 12 million are illegals and another 18million make over $50k. So lets stop throwing around the 50 number.

[The_Noble_Cause]

There are statistics out there that suggest that Canadians (for example) are not as healthy as Americans when it comes to things like cancer.

Link?

[The_Noble_Cause]

So you're patriotic until you can be a bully, is that it? May I remind you that under a republican president, prescription coverage for Medicare recipients happened. It's not a great program, but it's something that they didn't have before.

Woohoo.
It was voted on at 3 am and essentially privatized a portion of a good government program.
The privatized drug plans were touted as bringing costs down thru the magic of the free market.
It has done just the opposite.

[The_Noble_Cause]

And no, Dean, it's not fact that the republicans are against getting the poor help. That's just crazy. Making outlandish statements like that diminishes the rest of your point. You can do better than that. Talk about scare tactics. Sheesh!

Deano's not engaging in scare tactics...
If the Republicans had their way, neither Social Security or Medicare, would ever have seen the light of day.
Both were painted as taking us over the cliff into Red Army Communism.
As far as governing is concerned, the Republicans are irrelevant.
The Democrats need to ram this through.