OT - Can we finally call it BS and move on

[RedWingFan]

Global warming may not be true but making our lifestyles more "green" can't hurt, so why not just recycle your beer cans, eat healthier, and support hybrids so we can all save money on gas, if nothing else?

If you want to do all that? More power to you. The problem with it is, eventually you have politicians enforcing this garbage on you. It's all about stripping your freedoms. First they have to find enough idiots to support a stupid cause with fear.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... d=rss.news

Throwing orange peels, coffee grounds and grease-stained pizza boxes in the trash will be against the law in San Francisco, and could even lead to a fine.

The Board of Supervisors voted 9-2 Tuesday to approve Mayor Gavin Newsom's proposal for the most comprehensive mandatory composting and recycling law in the country. It's an aggressive push to cut greenhouse gas emissions and have the city sending nothing to landfills or incinerators by 2020.

"San Francisco has the best recycling and composting programs in the nation," Newsom said, praising the board's vote on a plan that some residents had decried as heavy-handed and impractical. "We can build on our success."

The ordinance is expected to take effect this fall. The legislation calls for every residence and business in the city to have three separate color-coded bins for waste: blue for recycling, green for compost and black for trash.

Failing to properly sort your refuse could result in a fine after several warnings, but Newsom and other officials say fines will only be levied in the most egregious cases.

Fines for almost all residential customers and many small businesses - anyone who generates less than a cubic yard of refuse a week - are initially capped at $100. Businesses that don't have proper bins face escalating fines up to $500.

So? When I was a kid we had lessons on the time it takes to decompose plastic, and the benefits of recycling. If people still haven't changed their ways given years of suggestions, maybe it is time to force their hand a little bit. Again, it's for the good of the FUTURE, I hate to see that people are being selfish because they don't want to conserve energy/gas on principle of "I can do whatever I want lol fuck everyone else". Even if it doesn't end up making a perfect future, as I said it can't do any harm to try.

As for eating better, Sushi Hunter: I don't know if that's a talking point so don't start treating it as such, I just threw it in there because again... it can't hurt to buy organic and such. I don't always, but those chemicals can't be much good for the air or the body. I'm not on board with McDonald's downsizing meals or anything but I would just love to see people making healthy choices in general.

Like I said, if it makes you feel better? Do it. This is tyranny! I guess tyranny is okay when you agree with the tyrant, huh? Hitler believed the world would be a better place inhabited by only whites.

[Jubilee]

That's just not true. We can stop pollutting the oceans to the point of poisoning every living creature in it. We can try recycling more and using less gasoline and trying to be just a little more careful. Claiming there is nothing we can do are the words of quitters and Rhiannon, I don't think you're a quitter and I know you're smart enough to know that those that think we can't do anything about global warming are the same ones who are afraid of losing a dime or two because of restrictions. It's about money, not about global warming.

You know what, I agree with you in part. No, we don't have to be slovenly fools putting waste into every natural resource and chopping down every tree. We can be educated consumers and regift what we take. I think carbon balance isn't a bad thing to strive for. But I also know that Earth has had ice ages, warming ages, massive floods, meteor impacts, and will again. And I know it's also a futile endeavor to think anything can be stopped or reversed. It is a indisputable FACT that the human race has numbered days. It is indisputable FACT that the Earth does as well.

The universe is infinitely expanding and our sun began to die the moment it was born. Stars die, the shockwave and resulting blackhole destroy their planetary systems.

We may have a responsibility to our home, but as a race, we're just deluding ourselves with thoughts of "global warming". Because Albie Gore wants you to blame yourself and stop using trash bags and driving your car. It's not going to happen. We're on a proven cooling trend right now. And the idiots who think our planet is going to fry in our lifetime are shitting their pants because most of the studies point to this cooling trend. Climates fluctuate.

Study a little bit on eco-archaeology or paleobotany. Every bit of earth has been tropical, desert, polar, and temperate over the course of the ages.

It's cool to want to be smart about your effect on your world, but it's simply ridiculous to campaign for others to wear jeans made out of recycled bottles because it just isn't going to change anything.

+1
Wooo! You go, Rhi!

And, if I may add, it is of course better work toward a cleaner environment,but what is often overlooked is the great strides we've already made. In many ways the environment is much cleaner now than ever before, yet the hand-wringing and bed-wetting of the greenies seems to be at an all time high. The earth's climate will change. It will get warmer. It will get cooler. That we cannot change. There is no optimal temp for the earth that we need to maintain - there's only this brief moment in the earth's history when the planet is favorable for humans. The real "Inconvenient Truth" for every living thing on this planet is change is inevitable -- adapt, or die. That's all there is to it.

[BobbyinTN]

Study a little bit on eco-archaeology or paleobotany. Every bit of earth has been tropical, desert, polar, and temperate over the course of the ages.

It's cool to want to be smart about your effect on your world, but it's simply ridiculous to campaign for others to wear jeans made out of recycled bottles because it just isn't going to change anything.[/quote]






Al Gore doesn't lead me anywhere and for anyone to be against global warming due to Al Gore is ridiculous. It's like hating Christmas because Santa doesn't exist. I've researched and I know enough to know that a warming trend in the Artic can create a cooling trend in other parts of the world. There are variables and the earth over all is heating up. If I open the freezer door, it will cool for a while, but then it will eventually stop cooling.

Take your car into your garage, shut the garage door, start the car. See how long before you starting getting stick, or feeling sleepy.

Thinking you'll never change anything is the wrong attitude. Many lives have been saved by many people who took action. Conservation is a good thing. That's why it's strange to me the people against conservation are usually conservatives. And no, it might not happen in our lifetime, but there is the future to think about.

[RedWingFan]

Thinking you'll never change anything is the wrong attitude. Many lives have been saved by many people who took action. Conservation is a good thing.

Yeah, and millions have been killed by people who've taken action for the environment. The banning of DDT in Africa specifically. Millions of men, women and children dead of Malaria to save some bird eggs! Oh how the bleeding heart liberals hearts bleed for bird eggs. After all the African people, and people in general are the reason the Earth is so sick, right? It's a few more million closer to being healed.

[Pacfanweb]

Anyone that doesnt' believe man plays a part in the polluting of this planet and damaging it is an idiot.

Get your heads out of your republican leaders asses and learn something on your own without having to be told.

By far, the primary cause of any global change in temperature is, the Sun has been burning hotter for awhile now.

That has nothing to do with either Republicans or Democrats, and it is an absolute FACT that it has been happening.

The Sun does this from time to time, and the temps of all the planets change accordingly. In other words, this too, will pass.


Is it a good idea to research some more efficient means of powering the world? Sure. Just don't be taxing me more to do it, and don't sit there and tell me that ocean levels are going to rise, ice caps are going to melt, (btw, the ice is GROWING) and we're going to have extreme weather. From what? Less than a degree of change? Yeah, right.

All this from the same folks who, 25 years ago, were certain that another Ice Age was coming.



Call me when you can accurately predict tomorrow's weather.

[Pacfanweb]

Study a little bit on eco-archaeology or paleobotany. Every bit of earth has been tropical, desert, polar, and temperate over the course of the ages.

It's cool to want to be smart about your effect on your world, but it's simply ridiculous to campaign for others to wear jeans made out of recycled bottles because it just isn't going to change anything.






Al Gore doesn't lead me anywhere and for anyone to be against global warming due to Al Gore is ridiculous. It's like hating Christmas because Santa doesn't exist. I've researched and I know enough to know that a warming trend in the Artic can create a cooling trend in other parts of the world. There are variables and the earth over all is heating up. If I open the freezer door, it will cool for a while, but then it will eventually stop cooling.

Take your car into your garage, shut the garage door, start the car. See how long before you starting getting stick, or feeling sleepy.


Thinking you'll never change anything is the wrong attitude. Many lives have been saved by many people who took action. Conservation is a good thing. That's why it's strange to me the people against conservation are usually conservatives. And no, it might not happen in our lifetime, but there is the future to think about.

Not a good idea, because of the CO2, but trees and plants LOVE the stuff.

Yes, coming up with new ways to curb pollution is a good thing, but not at the expense of our economy and industry. Let the private sector research new ways to conserve. They do it far better than the government. Meanwhile, I'd like the government to stay out of my money. They get too much already.

[artist4perry]

The sad thing is the things people come up with to Conserve, or leave a lighter carbon footprint, usually leave a bigger footprint. To save one animal may mean the destruction of another.

It's not nice to fool with mother Nature!

[RedWingFan]

Anyone that doesnt' believe man plays a part in the polluting of this planet and damaging it is an idiot.

Get your heads out of your republican leaders asses and learn something on your own without having to be told.

By far, the primary cause of any global change in temperature is, the Sun has been burning hotter for awhile now.

That has nothing to do with either Republicans or Democrats, and it is an absolute FACT that it has been happening.

The Sun does this from time to time, and the temps of all the planets change accordingly. In other words, this too, will pass.


Is it a good idea to research some more efficient means of powering the world? Sure. Just don't be taxing me more to do it, and don't sit there and tell me that ocean levels are going to rise, ice caps are going to melt, (btw, the ice is GROWING) and we're going to have extreme weather. From what? Less than a degree of change? Yeah, right.

All this from the same folks who, 25 years ago, were certain that another Ice Age was coming.



Call me when you can accurately predict tomorrow's weather.

And don't forget the Ozone hole crisis in the late 80's. It was going to destroy the entire food chain.

[Rhiannon]

And don't forget the Ozone hole crisis in the late 80's. It was going to destroy the entire food chain.

Oh gawd, I remember doing a PTA play in 3rd grade about that. We had to paint our faces red and they said by the time we were grown ups we couldn't go outside because the sun would kill us. So the human race would recreate society underground or some bullshit.

That hole kinda healed up too, didn't it?

[RedWingFan]

And don't forget the Ozone hole crisis in the late 80's. It was going to destroy the entire food chain.

Oh gawd, I remember doing a PTA play in 3rd grade about that. We had to paint our faces red and they said by the time we were grown ups we couldn't go outside because the sun would kill us. So the human race would recreate society underground or some bullshit.

That hole kinda healed up too, didn't it?

Yeah, and some microbe, the very bottom of the food chain couldn't survive in the shallow waters with UV rays. Thus the destruction of all sea life. We had to act immediately or face certain planetary doom!!!!!

[artist4perry]

And don't forget the Ozone hole crisis in the late 80's. It was going to destroy the entire food chain.

Oh gawd, I remember doing a PTA play in 3rd grade about that. We had to paint our faces red and they said by the time we were grown ups we couldn't go outside because the sun would kill us. So the human race would recreate society underground or some bullshit.

That hole kinda healed up too, didn't it?

Nothing like scaring the crap out of a few third graders...............


Sing and Dance along! Oh the hole in the sky is gonna make you fry, fry, fry....................

[Monker]

The next 10 years are actually going to be colder because of decreased solar activity, according to Scientists.

Well, that is debatable...there are periods of time where sunspot activity remained level but global warming still increased...evidence that solar activity has very little effect...in the short term (ie: a few decades).

As I have said here before, the changes in the sun do have a very, very insiginficant affect...but, it takes 10's of thousands of years for it to have any major affect.

Quite frankly, I think it is pure stupidity to believe that realeasing millions of tons of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere does not encourage a greenhouse affect and warm the planet. it is niave to think it does nothing, or very little.

[Monker]

The universe is infinitely expanding and our sun began to die the moment it was born. Stars die, the shockwave and resulting blackhole destroy their planetary systems.

This just isn't true.

First of all, not all stars create blackholes...including the Sun.
What do you consider 'dying' for a star? IMO, it is when it no longer has a fuel to burn. For the Sun that would be when it becomes a Red Giant and fianly fades away into a white dwarf.

We're on a proven cooling trend right now.

Yes, we started the 'cooling trend' at higher global temp then in the past. If you look at the big picture since records are kept, the over-all trend is an increase in global temp.

Study a little bit on eco-archaeology or paleobotany. Every bit of earth has been tropical, desert, polar, and temperate over the course of the ages.

Of course. over millions of years.

It's cool to want to be smart about your effect on your world, but it's simply ridiculous to campaign for others to wear jeans made out of recycled bottles because it just isn't going to change anything.

It is also ridiculous to assume that adding greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere is not going to cause a greenhouse affect.

[Monker]

A little bit OT but has anyone figured out how much it costs to change a battery pack on a hybrid vehicle? Does it negate the savings accumulated from using less gas?

The pollution from the power plants working to charge up all the electric cars will be the same if not more then if we would have just been burning gas in the cars anyway.

However, that is more controllable. It is a lot easier to controll the emissions of a few thousand 'power plants' then it is to control the emissions of millions of cars.

[Monker]

And don't forget the Ozone hole crisis in the late 80's. It was going to destroy the entire food chain.

Oh gawd, I remember doing a PTA play in 3rd grade about that. We had to paint our faces red and they said by the time we were grown ups we couldn't go outside because the sun would kill us. So the human race would recreate society underground or some bullshit.

That hole kinda healed up too, didn't it?

No, it didn't.

[Andrew]

Here in Tasmania we CAN'T go outside for more than 15 mins in the summer sun as we DO get our asses burned off.

It is legislated throughout the coutnry and kids wear protective gear while playing outside during the summer and as Tasmania is closer still to the ozone hole and the summer sun strength without any polution layer to protect us, we literally fry.

Kids die each year from heat stroke from being left i cars by dickhead parents as the temp can go from 70F to 130+ in a matter of 10 mins due to the sun strength.

None of this happened when I was a kid.

So things are pretty real for us.

[Andrew]

And don't forget the Ozone hole crisis in the late 80's. It was going to destroy the entire food chain.

Tell that to the 200 people that died last summer when a fire-hurricane wiped out 20+ towns in Victoria, AU.

[7 Wishes]

I love how a "theory" subscribed to almost unilaterally by climatologists and forensic meteorologists - as well as 90% of the scientific community - can be so easily dismissed by the PhD's over here on the MR board.

[Blueskies]

I love how a "theory" subscribed to almost unilaterally by climatologists and forensic meteorologists - as well as 90% of the scientific community - can be so easily dismissed by the PhD's over here on the MR board.

+ 1 >>>>>>>>

[RedWingFan]

And don't forget the Ozone hole crisis in the late 80's. It was going to destroy the entire food chain.

Oh gawd, I remember doing a PTA play in 3rd grade about that. We had to paint our faces red and they said by the time we were grown ups we couldn't go outside because the sun would kill us. So the human race would recreate society underground or some bullshit.

That hole kinda healed up too, didn't it?

No, it didn't.

It expands and retracts. It sure as hell doesn't have anything to do with aerosol cans.

[RedWingFan]

And don't forget the Ozone hole crisis in the late 80's. It was going to destroy the entire food chain.

Tell that to the 200 people that died last summer when a fire-hurricane wiped out 20+ towns in Victoria, AU.

Fires are common in dry areas. I've never been there but I'm guessing that's the case there. Correct?

[Rhiannon]

That hole kinda healed up too, didn't it?

No, it didn't.

Sorry about the sarcasm on the subject then, I was going on information in a chemistry lecture from about 6 years ago. Since then I had heard the same thing elsewhere on numerous occasions.

Sorry to Andrew too, you guys really can't stay outside in the summer? No days at the beach? Hope you excuse my own misinformation on the ozone.

[Eric]

Here in Tasmania we CAN'T go outside for more than 15 mins in the summer sun as we DO get our asses burned off.

It is legislated throughout the coutnry and kids wear protective gear while playing outside during the summer and as Tasmania is closer still to the ozone hole and the summer sun strength without any polution layer to protect us, we literally fry.

Kids die each year from heat stroke from being left i cars by dickhead parents as the temp can go from 70F to 130+ in a matter of 10 mins due to the sun strength.

None of this happened when I was a kid.

So things are pretty real for us.

Pretty sure you couldn't leave kids in a hot car when you were a kid either.....

[Eric]

Listen, being a good steward of the planet IS important. Recycling is painless and has a real and effective impact. Within reason (READ: Without doing too much at once to hurt the economy) we should also always be striving to make the air we breathe cleaner.

BUT- lets not confuse that with the world coming to an end unless we pay 25k for a 12k car (Prius). The Greenies are absurd. I switched to the new lightbulbs because they last longer, and I trust that the long-term energy saving info is accurate, however, to switch to them because you think you are saving the planet is horseshit funny.

The earth is going to change, no matter what we do....and the fear tactics being thrown at us are way past the stage of being annoying. Start hurting the economy with some of this nonsense, and trust me, things will get very ugly.

There are real threats we need to deal with...terrorism and debt.

[Jana]

I love how a "theory" subscribed to almost unilaterally by climatologists and forensic meteorologists - as well as 90% of the scientific community - can be so easily dismissed by the PhD's over here on the MR board.

+ 1 >>>>>>>>

[BobbyinTN]

Thinking you'll never change anything is the wrong attitude. Many lives have been saved by many people who took action. Conservation is a good thing.

Yeah, and millions have been killed by people who've taken action for the environment. The banning of DDT in Africa specifically. Millions of men, women and children dead of Malaria to save some bird eggs! Oh how the bleeding heart liberals hearts bleed for bird eggs. After all the African people, and people in general are the reason the Earth is so sick, right? It's a few more million closer to being healed.

Tripe, bullshit excuses for not being able to destroy everything to make a buck.

[BobbyinTN]

Amazing the ignorance displayed by some who can't accept scientific facts. The ice is not growing, green house gases do get trapped in the upper atmosphere, the hole in the ozone is still there, and yes, it is mostly republicans who are scared to death of slowing down the big money making wheel long enough to take care of the earth we live on.

They're so afraid of a company having regulations it amazes me. Government SHOULD be involved, FEDERAL government should be involved. We are the UNITED States of America, not the INDEPENDANT states of America.

I don't want higher taxes, I don't want to pay any more than my fair share, but roads and bridges don't pay for themselves. Scientists can't invent new ways of living cheaper with no money to back them.

Taxes are inevitable. Government, republicans and democrats alike have been living high off the hog for way too long to put a stop to taxes, but putting that money toward our futures is not a bad thing and can only help.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Reminds me of Chicken Little "The sky is falling!"

[The_Noble_Cause]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html

I’m with you!
If eight years of George Bush didn’t drive a stake through the metastasized turd known as the GOP, then Fort Lauderdale under water most certainly will do the trick.
Full disclosure -I’m not a climatologist.
I won’t pretend to tell you I made it any further than 5 minutes into ‘An inconvenient Truth.’
What I do know is, if we can wean ourselves off carbon without too great an expense to consumers and industry, that is a good thing.

[Pacfanweb]

Here in Tasmania we CAN'T go outside for more than 15 mins in the summer sun as we DO get our asses burned off.

It is legislated throughout the coutnry and kids wear protective gear while playing outside during the summer and as Tasmania is closer still to the ozone hole and the summer sun strength without any polution layer to protect us, we literally fry.

Kids die each year from heat stroke from being left i cars by dickhead parents as the temp can go from 70F to 130+ in a matter of 10 mins due to the sun strength.

None of this happened when I was a kid.

So things are pretty real for us.

With all due respect, Andrew....yes, all of that happened when you were a kid. You just didn't hear about it. The difference is today, communications. It wasn't possible, when we were children, for the entire population to hear about every sun-related death, illness, etc. It is now. Every bit of the stuff you mentioned was happening, but you just didn't hear about it. Nobody was connecting the dots. And now, there are people with a vested interest in this topic out there gathering any data they can find to support their opinion about climate change...and they are publicizing it like crazy. So people are simply more exposed to the news today than ever before. Whether the news is correct and true or not, they are still exposed to it.

Same thing goes for people I hear talking about how much "better" people were years ago, and they reference all the murders, rapes, child molestings, etc......."Look how much of that stuff is happening today, that never happened 50 years ago". Well, yes it did. If you go through the local newspapers' archives, you'll find that every small town and community had tons of this stuff going on from the beginning of time......but the news simply didn't travel outside the town. Much less make it on CNN and get blown up all over the country or world.
There were always freaks like you see on TV today, molesting children, etc.....they just didn't get much publicity because news couldn't travel as easily.

BTW, the Arctic ozone "hole" has always occurred...it's a natural phenomenon. Happens every year, just nobody knew about it until recently. (recently meaning, relative to our existence on Earth)