Michael Jackson ***August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009***

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Postby Don » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:45 am

Jana wrote:My point on that was OJ was found innocent but I feel sure most on here would have been saying he was guilty no matter what, including me. And, yes, I agree with you, many innocent people have gone to trial on witch hunts by the state.

You left the last part of my reply off, which was on the trial in 2003 or whatever the year was while there might have been a grain of truth to what the child said and there were some disturbing facts that came out in trial, the parents were lowlifes and were out for money and who would know if facts were exaggerated or even total untruths were being told and he should have been found not guilty.

But Michael paid out 22 million dollars and another two million in another case. The stigma back in 93 to pay out that kind of money in a child sex case was damning and the public for the most part started to believe there might be truth to the allegations. I feel he was attracted to children. To what level he committed acts or even acted on it I don't know. And I feel the other side of him was childlike and did innocently love children also. But I have stated in here I feel sorry for the young boy and young man he was and feel most of his adult life was tragic and sad, like the way he ruined his face, and stemmed from his childhood b/c of the abuse by his father and having no childhood, being a workhorse to provide for his family. He was a tortured soul.


Just wanted to point something out about both trials.

OJ

Nine blacks, two whites, and one Hispanic on the jury

MJ

Eight whites, three Hispanics and one Asian on the jury

Talk about stacking the odds for and against.
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Postby Don » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:53 am

Voyager wrote:
Gunbot wrote:
Voyager wrote:How does Jacko's dad Joe react to all of the allegations by Michael and others that he horribly abused Michael?


:?:


In a 2003 BBC interview, he did say he used to whip him. I don't think he sees t as anything more then tough love.


Michael attributed the abuse as the cause of his never-ending torment on many occasions. Do you think his dad is in denial, or was Jacko just whacko?


I think Jackson Sr. is just a bad person. I also think jealousy from the other brothers might have initiated some of Joe's abuse and really put MJ in a bad situation mentally. IMO, Jermaine is/was the only one who truley cared about Michael.
IMO, Jermaine is/was the only person who really cared about Michael.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:34 am

I'm speculating that there will be some really specific information released about all this now that he's dead. I'm also curious how many tell-all books will be written and sold.
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Postby Blueskies » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:31 am

My gosh..I read things said in this thread where a couple people even say they are disgusted by others who are even so much as acknowledging the death of MJ or that they are wrong in even wanting to play the music....people that unequivocally have been stating that he was a pedophile like it's a fact. Well it's not a fact, merely speculation and believing all the hype. World media as well as law enforcement investigated and tried to find as much evidence as they could to prove it...they dug long and hard.... and then a trial was even held in which he was found not guilty. So many people looking for so long and nothing was ever proven to be fact...nothing proven beyond a shadow of a doubt..just a couple accusations by some rather dubious families who bring many questions to the table of their motives. So to come on this board to talk at people like they should be ashamed of themselves for saying anything positive about MJ at all is ridiculous and out of line. Of course you can think what you like but just because you believe it so doesn't prove its a fact written in stone and some of us don't agree with that line of thinking.

Just as some have reason to believe that he was a pedophile I have my reasons to believe he was not... a very troubled, broken person to be sure with some behaviors that are bizarre to what is considered the norm..but I don't believe he was a pedophile. For one thing...in all his actions and in a lot of his music he mourned the loss of his childhood...the loss of innocence to such a huge degree that I don't see him wanting to take that innocence away from a child...I think he wanted to try to retain it and I also think what he meant by showing love was misunderstood.....I don't think it was sexual in nature at all.

Yes, these are only my feelings on the matter...doesn't make me right....but for those that feel he was guilty..that's also just a feeling of suspicion,.. doubt...which doesn't make them right either. If I felt he was guilty I would not even give recognition by honoring the music....but, like I said....unless concrete evidence comes to light that proves guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt I will continue to play the music. Just because someone else thinks it's wrong because they are convinced of guilt doesn't prove a dang thing...it doesn't prove guilt at all so those that want to enjoy the music should go right ahead and do so without some condemning and accusing us of condoning harm to children....that's ridiculous and insulting our intelligence and our characters so for those doing it go blow it out your tail ends since your full of it.
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Postby Rick » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:39 am

Blueskies wrote:My gosh..I read things said in this thread where a couple people even say they are disgusted by others who are even so much as acknowledging the death of MJ or that they are wrong in even wanting to play the music....people that unequivocally have been stating that he was a pedophile like it's a fact. Well it's not a fact, merely speculation and believing all the hype. World media as well as law enforcement investigated and tried to find as much evidence to prove it.....a trial was even held in which he was found not guilty. So many people looking for so long and nothing was ever proven to be fact...nothing proven beyond a shadow of a doubt so to come on this board to talk at people like they should be ashamed of themselves for saying anything positive about MJ at all is ridiculous and out of line. Of course you can think what you like but just because you believe it so doesn't prove its a fact written in stone and some of us don't agree with that line of thinking.

Just as some have reason to believe that he was a pedophile I have my reasons to believe he was not... a very troubled, broken person to be sure with some behaviors that are bizarre to what is considered the norm..but I don't believe he was a pedophile. For one thing...in all his actions and in a lot of his music he mourned the loss of his childhood...the loss of innocence to such a huge degree that I don't see him wanting to take that innocence away from a child...I think he wanted to try to retain it and I also think what he meant by showing love was misunderstood.....I don't think it was sexual in nature at all.

Yes, these are only my feelings on the matter...doesn't make me right....but for those that feel he was guilty..thats also just a feeling of suspician, doubt...which doesn't make them right either. If I felt he was guilty I would not even give recognition by honoring the music....but, like I said....unless concrete evidence comes to light that proves guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt I will continue to play the music Just because someone else thinks it's wrong because they are convinced of guilt doesn't prove a dang thing...it doesn't prove guilt at all so those that want to enjoy the music should go right ahead and do so without some condemning and accusing us of condoning harm to children....thats ridiculous and insulting our intelligence and our characters so for those doing it go blow it out your tail ends since your full of it.


WOOF!! Nice rant! I agree Phyllis, completely, and have wanted to write a similar rant, but yours will certainly do. ;)

If he was a pedophile, why would people have let their kids go to his house after the first bullshit accusation? There is nothing more to this than people seeing dollar signs. Period.

RIP MJ, you gave so much to your fans and to charities. Rock on man, you did well.
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Postby Sarah » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:43 am

Fact Finder wrote:It's called free speech, if you don't like it scroll past it.

Actually, asserting that he is a pedo without proof is libel, buddy.
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Postby treetopovskaya » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:49 am

Rick wrote:
Blueskies wrote:My gosh..I read things said in this thread where a couple people even say they are disgusted by others who are even so much as acknowledging the death of MJ or that they are wrong in even wanting to play the music....people that unequivocally have been stating that he was a pedophile like it's a fact. Well it's not a fact, merely speculation and believing all the hype. World media as well as law enforcement investigated and tried to find as much evidence to prove it.....a trial was even held in which he was found not guilty. So many people looking for so long and nothing was ever proven to be fact...nothing proven beyond a shadow of a doubt so to come on this board to talk at people like they should be ashamed of themselves for saying anything positive about MJ at all is ridiculous and out of line. Of course you can think what you like but just because you believe it so doesn't prove its a fact written in stone and some of us don't agree with that line of thinking.

Just as some have reason to believe that he was a pedophile I have my reasons to believe he was not... a very troubled, broken person to be sure with some behaviors that are bizarre to what is considered the norm..but I don't believe he was a pedophile. For one thing...in all his actions and in a lot of his music he mourned the loss of his childhood...the loss of innocence to such a huge degree that I don't see him wanting to take that innocence away from a child...I think he wanted to try to retain it and I also think what he meant by showing love was misunderstood.....I don't think it was sexual in nature at all.

Yes, these are only my feelings on the matter...doesn't make me right....but for those that feel he was guilty..thats also just a feeling of suspician, doubt...which doesn't make them right either. If I felt he was guilty I would not even give recognition by honoring the music....but, like I said....unless concrete evidence comes to light that proves guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt I will continue to play the music Just because someone else thinks it's wrong because they are convinced of guilt doesn't prove a dang thing...it doesn't prove guilt at all so those that want to enjoy the music should go right ahead and do so without some condemning and accusing us of condoning harm to children....thats ridiculous and insulting our intelligence and our characters so for those doing it go blow it out your tail ends since your full of it.


WOOF!! Nice rant! I agree Phyllis, completely, and have wanted to write a similar rant, but yours will certainly do. ;)

If he was a pedophile, why would people have let their kids go to his house after the first bullshit accusation? There is nothing more to this than people seeing dollar signs. Period.

RIP MJ, you gave so much to your fans and to charities. Rock on man, you did well.


right on blueskies & rick. i never believed those charges.

still can't believe mj is gone. so surreal & sad.

i can't watch anymore media coverage... just so disrespectful imo. there's a line people... i don't think they should be playing the 911 call or showing the photos of mj in the ambulance. my heart goes out to his loved ones.
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Postby Blueskies » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:02 pm

Rick wrote:
Blueskies wrote:My gosh..I read things said in this thread where a couple people even say they are disgusted by others who are even so much as acknowledging the death of MJ or that they are wrong in even wanting to play the music....people that unequivocally have been stating that he was a pedophile like it's a fact. Well it's not a fact, merely speculation and believing all the hype. World media as well as law enforcement investigated and tried to find as much evidence to prove it.....a trial was even held in which he was found not guilty. So many people looking for so long and nothing was ever proven to be fact...nothing proven beyond a shadow of a doubt so to come on this board to talk at people like they should be ashamed of themselves for saying anything positive about MJ at all is ridiculous and out of line. Of course you can think what you like but just because you believe it so doesn't prove its a fact written in stone and some of us don't agree with that line of thinking.

Just as some have reason to believe that he was a pedophile I have my reasons to believe he was not... a very troubled, broken person to be sure with some behaviors that are bizarre to what is considered the norm..but I don't believe he was a pedophile. For one thing...in all his actions and in a lot of his music he mourned the loss of his childhood...the loss of innocence to such a huge degree that I don't see him wanting to take that innocence away from a child...I think he wanted to try to retain it and I also think what he meant by showing love was misunderstood.....I don't think it was sexual in nature at all.

Yes, these are only my feelings on the matter...doesn't make me right....but for those that feel he was guilty..thats also just a feeling of suspician, doubt...which doesn't make them right either. If I felt he was guilty I would not even give recognition by honoring the music....but, like I said....unless concrete evidence comes to light that proves guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt I will continue to play the music Just because someone else thinks it's wrong because they are convinced of guilt doesn't prove a dang thing...it doesn't prove guilt at all so those that want to enjoy the music should go right ahead and do so without some condemning and accusing us of condoning harm to children....thats ridiculous and insulting our intelligence and our characters so for those doing it go blow it out your tail ends since your full of it.


WOOF!! Nice rant! I agree Phyllis, completely, and have wanted to write a similar rant, but yours will certainly do. ;)

If he was a pedophile, why would people have let their kids go to his house after the first bullshit accusation? There is nothing more to this than people seeing dollar signs. Period.

RIP MJ, you gave so much to your fans and to charities. Rock on man, you did well.

I have not heard any proof of his guilt....in a court of law one is considered innocent until proven guilty without allowance of submitting hearsay ...substantiated concrete evidence proves guilt not just because someone thinks it so ..wants to believe it's so..or just says its so. Suspicion doesn't prove guilt. Yes, this is not a court of law....unfortunately... because the media..the court of public opinion... is not a just one and sometimes people are condemned without benefit of doubt.....and what a shame if , like I believe it to be, is the case with MJ.
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Postby treetopovskaya » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:03 pm

i was in a... umm... meeting were we weren't supposed to use our cels. a few people had their phones on. the first bad news was farrah & then mj.

it was next to impossible to concentrate after that news. that's the type of news that just knocks the wind out of you. }:C((
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:17 pm

Rick wrote:If he was a pedophile, why would people have let their kids go to his house after the first bullshit accusation?


Lets see here.....maybe because they were tired of not winning the lottery so they send in little Johnny to get the ball rolling.

Even if MJ didn't molest anyone, he was fucking retarded to put himself in that situation. Yeah, what if a fully grown man who was rich started having little girl sleep over's at his house. Who would start questioning that and who'd let their little girls spend the night over there? Kinda odd that MJ only had little boys though.

You know in earth's history, every civilization that existed before our current one has always become extinct. Well I've realized that stupidity and lack of common sense is going to be what drives our civilization into extinction.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:20 pm

treetopovskaya wrote:i was in a... umm... meeting were we weren't supposed to use our cels. a few people had their phones on. the first bad news was farrah & then mj.

it was next to impossible to concentrate after that news. that's the type of news that just knocks the wind out of you. }:C((


9-11 was about the only news that did that to me.
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Postby Blueskies » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:57 pm

The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Rick wrote:If he was a pedophile, why would people have let their kids go to his house after the first bullshit accusation?


Lets see here.....maybe because they were tired of not winning the lottery so they send in little Johnny to get the ball rolling.

Even if MJ didn't molest anyone, he was fucking retarded to put himself in that situation. Yeah, what if a fully grown man who was rich started having little girl sleep over's at his house. Who would start questioning that and who'd let their little girls spend the night over there? Kinda odd that MJ only had little boys though.

You know in earth's history, every civilization that existed before our current one has always become extinct. Well I've realized that stupidity and lack of common sense is going to be what drives our civilization into extinction.


Yes, it is just as possible that they wanted to win the MJ lottery as you sarcastically insinuating that they did not. There has been evidence that was the case. The father was taped in saying as much.

Even if he didn't molest anyone???? Are you reading what you are saying? Even if he's not guilty of it then you are going to unequivocally state in this thread many times that its a fact?? There were girls around sometimes too...but maybe he had more boys around him since he is a male and they being males he related to them and any struggles, hurt or unhappiness they were possibly experiencing as children. So maybe the reasons are more deeper then what you are looking at. Something only looked at on the surface doesn't always reveal the reality to whats beneath....to you it looks suspicious but that doesn't mean nor prove wrong doing.

Common sense should dictate to you that you should not judge a book by its cover...look inside further and investigate fully ...get the whole story...get all the facts in place to be able to clearly see the whole picture and then be able to verify that its authentic. If you only look at the cover and take somes opinion of whats inside then you do not have enough information to judge fairly. Your rush to judgement without anything but circumstantial and not concrete evidence as well as your insults like you just made towards Rick sure aren't showing you in the best light and doesn't lend confidence nor credence in either your argument nor your capacity of common sense. It's quite possible that your reasoning is off and not Ricks nor mine.
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Postby RedWingFan » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:08 pm

Rick wrote:If he was a pedophile, why would people have let their kids go to his house after the first bullshit accusation? There is nothing more to this than people seeing dollar signs. Period.

RIP MJ, you gave so much to your fans and to charities. Rock on man, you did well.

Rick, Believe me as a big fan of his music and talent. I would like nothing more than to agree with you. But check this out.
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jhudn ... ore-170970

My Disturbing Michael Jackson Experienceby James Hudnall

I met Michael Jackson just once back in 1993. It was only months before he was first accused of sexually molesting then 13-year-old Jordy Chandler. Like a lot of people before that scandal, I was an admirer of his music. I grew up listening to the Jackson Five and later Michael Jackson’s solo efforts. I wasn’t a huge fan, but I bought most of his CDs.


Coincidentally, I was living in Encino, California in 1993. The Jackson family lived not far from me. I would see Joe Jackson at the supermarket or Randy at the car wash. But I never expected to meet Michael. About once a week I would go over the hill to Golden Apple Comics on Melrose. It was owned by a friend, the late Bill Liebowitz, and I also had a bunch of friends who worked there. They told me Michael was a big customer. He would go there with a group of kids and buy them whatever they wanted. He would often spend thousands on those days.
I asked one of my friends if Michael bought any comics for himself. He said sure. So I said what kind of books does he read? He said “Anything with kids in them.” I remember thinking: “Brrr!” at the time.

Sure, that could be innocent and all, but there were all those stories even then of Michael having kids with him all the time. Which is kind of odd for a grown man, but Michael Jackson was never known for being normal.

Everyone I know who knew him said he was a very nice guy, kind of quiet and he did a lot with charity. No one had a bad thing to say about him. But I did detect a certain reluctant vibe when discussing Michael with my friends at the store. They didn’t say why, but they felt he was weird. And this is from people who worked at a store on Melrose in L.A.

So one day I came in the store and one of my friends told me Jackson was in the store. And there he was, over by the comics rack. He had his arm around someone like he was on a date. That someone was Jordy Chandler.

I walked over to the long racks and pretended not to notice them. Jackson had his people with him including his driver. That driver was later a witness against Jackson in his trial.

Jackson was whispering in Jordy’s ear and they were acting totally like people on a date. It was not the kind of behavior a couple of straight guys do together. Then they went back in the store in the employee area and disappeared. They were gone for a half hour. I stuck around and talked to my friends, just shooting the breeze. I assumed Jackson left by the back door to avoid people. But Bill the owner asked me if I wanted to meet Michael Jackson, and I said, sure.

Jackson reappeared, and left the store. I went out there with Bill and he introduced me. Jordy had detached from Michael and went to the black SUV. I didn’t shake hands with Jackson, I only got to exchange pleasantries. But I noticed something, when I tried to look him in the eyes, he had this very evasive…almost crazed look. Like someone who had just committed a crime and didn’t want anyone to see them. It was weird.

I’ve met a lot of famous celebs and have never seen them as anything other than people. People who work in the entertainment industry, which I was doing at the time myself. So I’ve been very laid back in these encounters. So I know it was nothing I did that made him look at me like that. I thought, “Man, is he paranoid or what? Maybe he’s on something.”

After they took off, I went back in the store to buy some comics and I asked one of my friends what they were doing in the back room for so long. He said Michael and Jordy were in the bathroom for a half hour.

Yeah.

I said, huh? He said that’s not unusual for him.

Now, I don’t know what they did in there, but it was a small one-person bathroom. And I can only think of a couple reasons two people would go into a small bathroom together. One of the nice reasons is they were helping the other with their costumes. He wasn’t wearing anything that out of the ordinary. So that leaves the other two reasons, since we can assume Jordy is potty trained at 13. Sex or drugs.

When the story about the molestation broke a few months later, that pretty much made up my mind which reason it was.

A lot of people say Michael Jackson did not molest kids. Maybe not. But I have a hard time believing it.

Everyone I know, who worked with Michael had great things to say about him, so I suppose he wasn’t a bad person. But if you have followed his story closely, he was no saint either. He actively worked to insure his brothers would never succeed. He reneged on deals constantly and didn’t pay people he owed their money.

There will be a lot of stories coming out about him and his defenders will work hard to try to canonize him. But the truth is a lot more complex.
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby treetopovskaya » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:13 pm

RedWingFan wrote:
Rick wrote:If he was a pedophile, why would people have let their kids go to his house after the first bullshit accusation? There is nothing more to this than people seeing dollar signs. Period.

RIP MJ, you gave so much to your fans and to charities. Rock on man, you did well.

Rick, Believe me as a big fan of his music and talent. I would like nothing more than to agree with you. But check this out.
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jhudn ... ore-170970

My Disturbing Michael Jackson Experienceby James Hudnall

I met Michael Jackson just once back in 1993. It was only months before he was first accused of sexually molesting then 13-year-old Jordy Chandler. Like a lot of people before that scandal, I was an admirer of his music. I grew up listening to the Jackson Five and later Michael Jackson’s solo efforts. I wasn’t a huge fan, but I bought most of his CDs.


Coincidentally, I was living in Encino, California in 1993. The Jackson family lived not far from me. I would see Joe Jackson at the supermarket or Randy at the car wash. But I never expected to meet Michael. About once a week I would go over the hill to Golden Apple Comics on Melrose. It was owned by a friend, the late Bill Liebowitz, and I also had a bunch of friends who worked there. They told me Michael was a big customer. He would go there with a group of kids and buy them whatever they wanted. He would often spend thousands on those days.
I asked one of my friends if Michael bought any comics for himself. He said sure. So I said what kind of books does he read? He said “Anything with kids in them.” I remember thinking: “Brrr!” at the time.

Sure, that could be innocent and all, but there were all those stories even then of Michael having kids with him all the time. Which is kind of odd for a grown man, but Michael Jackson was never known for being normal.

Everyone I know who knew him said he was a very nice guy, kind of quiet and he did a lot with charity. No one had a bad thing to say about him. But I did detect a certain reluctant vibe when discussing Michael with my friends at the store. They didn’t say why, but they felt he was weird. And this is from people who worked at a store on Melrose in L.A.

So one day I came in the store and one of my friends told me Jackson was in the store. And there he was, over by the comics rack. He had his arm around someone like he was on a date. That someone was Jordy Chandler.

I walked over to the long racks and pretended not to notice them. Jackson had his people with him including his driver. That driver was later a witness against Jackson in his trial.

Jackson was whispering in Jordy’s ear and they were acting totally like people on a date. It was not the kind of behavior a couple of straight guys do together. Then they went back in the store in the employee area and disappeared. They were gone for a half hour. I stuck around and talked to my friends, just shooting the breeze. I assumed Jackson left by the back door to avoid people. But Bill the owner asked me if I wanted to meet Michael Jackson, and I said, sure.

Jackson reappeared, and left the store. I went out there with Bill and he introduced me. Jordy had detached from Michael and went to the black SUV. I didn’t shake hands with Jackson, I only got to exchange pleasantries. But I noticed something, when I tried to look him in the eyes, he had this very evasive…almost crazed look. Like someone who had just committed a crime and didn’t want anyone to see them. It was weird.

I’ve met a lot of famous celebs and have never seen them as anything other than people. People who work in the entertainment industry, which I was doing at the time myself. So I’ve been very laid back in these encounters. So I know it was nothing I did that made him look at me like that. I thought, “Man, is he paranoid or what? Maybe he’s on something.”

After they took off, I went back in the store to buy some comics and I asked one of my friends what they were doing in the back room for so long. He said Michael and Jordy were in the bathroom for a half hour.

Yeah.

I said, huh? He said that’s not unusual for him.

Now, I don’t know what they did in there, but it was a small one-person bathroom. And I can only think of a couple reasons two people would go into a small bathroom together. One of the nice reasons is they were helping the other with their costumes. He wasn’t wearing anything that out of the ordinary. So that leaves the other two reasons, since we can assume Jordy is potty trained at 13. Sex or drugs.

When the story about the molestation broke a few months later, that pretty much made up my mind which reason it was.

A lot of people say Michael Jackson did not molest kids. Maybe not. But I have a hard time believing it.

Everyone I know, who worked with Michael had great things to say about him, so I suppose he wasn’t a bad person. But if you have followed his story closely, he was no saint either. He actively worked to insure his brothers would never succeed. He reneged on deals constantly and didn’t pay people he owed their money.

There will be a lot of stories coming out about him and his defenders will work hard to try to canonize him. But the truth is a lot more complex.


look at the date that story was posted. hmm.

tabloid crap. people really need to stop reading that sheit.
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Postby StoneCold » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:27 pm

Maybe its a slow day at the BH webjournal and that helped him "remember" that story?

One of the comments on that article.

One night in the mid-ninety's, say a week before Christmas, I was wheeling a heavy can of trash on a dolly out to the dumpsters. It was at a business establishment, bicycle shop, at a busy strip mall. The dumpsters were behind a pair of CLOSED heavy steel doors, and I was just going through the drill, trying to get home. I set the can down and I guess it made enough noise to get the attention of the occupants of the DARKENED dumpster room, because out came a dude with a little girl.

There was no reason for anyone to be in there, it was 9:30 p.m., cold, the room stunk and the guy was in a real hurry to get away. I still feel bad about not informing the proper people in quick step, but it's been years and needless to say I still regret it....
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:47 pm

Right, the guy with the thousand-acre ranch, theme park, and five hundred room mansion went to a comic book store in a seedy part of L.A. to molest a little boy.

Moving along now...
But around town, it was well known...when they got home at night
Their fat and psychopathic wives
Would thrash them within inches of their lives!
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:59 pm

Blueskies wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Rick wrote:If he was a pedophile, why would people have let their kids go to his house after the first bullshit accusation?


Lets see here.....maybe because they were tired of not winning the lottery so they send in little Johnny to get the ball rolling.

Even if MJ didn't molest anyone, he was fucking retarded to put himself in that situation. Yeah, what if a fully grown man who was rich started having little girl sleep over's at his house. Who would start questioning that and who'd let their little girls spend the night over there? Kinda odd that MJ only had little boys though.

You know in earth's history, every civilization that existed before our current one has always become extinct. Well I've realized that stupidity and lack of common sense is going to be what drives our civilization into extinction.


Yes, it is just as possible that they wanted to win the MJ lottery as you sarcastically insinuating that they did not. There has been evidence that was the case. The father was taped in saying as much.

Even if he didn't molest anyone???? Are you reading what you are saying? Even if he's not guilty of it then you are going to unequivocally state in this thread many times that its a fact?? There were girls around sometimes too...but maybe he had more boys around him since he is a male and they being males he related to them and any struggles, hurt or unhappiness they were possibly experiencing as children. So maybe the reasons are more deeper then what you are looking at. Something only looked at on the surface doesn't always reveal the reality to whats beneath....to you it looks suspicious but that doesn't mean nor prove wrong doing.

Common sense should dictate to you that you should not judge a book by its cover...look inside further and investigate fully ...get the whole story...get all the facts in place to be able to clearly see the whole picture and then be able to verify that its authentic. If you only look at the cover and take somes opinion of whats inside then you do not have enough information to judge fairly. Your rush to judgement without anything but circumstantial and not concrete evidence as well as your insults like you just made towards Rick sure aren't showing you in the best light and doesn't lend confidence nor credence in either your argument nor your capacity of common sense. It's quite possible that your reasoning is off and not Ricks nor mine.


You really go above and beyond ignorantly looking completely the other way with this. How do you know MJ did or did not molest those boys? I guess you were a fucking fly on the wall there, yes? You go so far to stick up for this clown that you don't allow the people who don't agree with you on this to voice there opinion about what they think about it. Your such a commie it's not even funny.
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Postby JeremyP » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:24 pm

Rick wrote:
Blueskies wrote:My gosh..I read things said in this thread where a couple people even say they are disgusted by others who are even so much as acknowledging the death of MJ or that they are wrong in even wanting to play the music....people that unequivocally have been stating that he was a pedophile like it's a fact. Well it's not a fact, merely speculation and believing all the hype. World media as well as law enforcement investigated and tried to find as much evidence to prove it.....a trial was even held in which he was found not guilty. So many people looking for so long and nothing was ever proven to be fact...nothing proven beyond a shadow of a doubt so to come on this board to talk at people like they should be ashamed of themselves for saying anything positive about MJ at all is ridiculous and out of line. Of course you can think what you like but just because you believe it so doesn't prove its a fact written in stone and some of us don't agree with that line of thinking.

Just as some have reason to believe that he was a pedophile I have my reasons to believe he was not... a very troubled, broken person to be sure with some behaviors that are bizarre to what is considered the norm..but I don't believe he was a pedophile. For one thing...in all his actions and in a lot of his music he mourned the loss of his childhood...the loss of innocence to such a huge degree that I don't see him wanting to take that innocence away from a child...I think he wanted to try to retain it and I also think what he meant by showing love was misunderstood.....I don't think it was sexual in nature at all.

Yes, these are only my feelings on the matter...doesn't make me right....but for those that feel he was guilty..thats also just a feeling of suspician, doubt...which doesn't make them right either. If I felt he was guilty I would not even give recognition by honoring the music....but, like I said....unless concrete evidence comes to light that proves guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt I will continue to play the music Just because someone else thinks it's wrong because they are convinced of guilt doesn't prove a dang thing...it doesn't prove guilt at all so those that want to enjoy the music should go right ahead and do so without some condemning and accusing us of condoning harm to children....thats ridiculous and insulting our intelligence and our characters so for those doing it go blow it out your tail ends since your full of it.


WOOF!! Nice rant! I agree Phyllis, completely, and have wanted to write a similar rant, but yours will certainly do. ;)

If he was a pedophile, why would people have let their kids go to his house after the first bullshit accusation? There is nothing more to this than people seeing dollar signs. Period.


RIP MJ, you gave so much to your fans and to charities. Rock on man, you did well.


Agree.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:49 pm

Well one thing I can tell you all for damn sure....MJ is STILL dead.
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Postby SusieP » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:13 pm

OK, here's something very curious which was in a Brit newspaper yesterday.......some guy who has a biography coming out about Michael next week said in December 2008 that Michael had a lung disease and only had six months to live.
The author is called Ian Halperin. His book is called The Final Years Of Michael Jackson.
So..............has this been reported anywhere else?
Did I imagine it?
Could it be true?
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Postby Babyblue » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:26 pm

SusieP wrote:OK, here's something very curious which was in a Brit newspaper yesterday.......some guy who has a biography coming out about Michael next week said in December 2008 that Michael had a lung disease and only had six months to live.
The author is called Ian Halperin. His book is called The Final Years Of Michael Jackson.
So..............has this been reported anywhere else?
Did I imagine it?
Could it be true?


I had read that in your paper as well Susie.But have not heard about it here.Its just sad he is no longer here with us.But he is with our loving Father in heaven now. :cry:No one can ever hurt him again.
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Postby SusieP » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:08 pm

I also read that the money made from the upcoming 02 gigs would clear his debts. Almost down to the exact penny.

So how does a guy with a lung disease and only six months to live pass a medical so he can be pronounced fit to perform so many shows?

Either the six months to live story is untrue or the medical examination's authenticity is doubtful.

But a guy who was involved in so much controversy could not just have a straightforward death, I guess.
His death had to be a controversy too.


I am sure we will hear much more from the jury in that paedophile allegation case now.
And I'm sure any staff who signed confidentiality agreements will also speak out now.

Cheque-book journalism is about to go off the scale.
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Postby Babyblue » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:29 pm

SusieP wrote:I also read that the money made from the upcoming 02 gigs would clear his debts. Almost down to the exact penny.

So how does a guy with a lung disease and only six months to live pass a medical so he can be pronounced fit to perform so many shows?

Either the six months to live story is untrue or the medical examination's authenticity is doubtful.

But a guy who was involved in so much controversy could not just have a straightforward death, I guess.
His death had to be a controversy too.


I am sure we will hear much more from the jury in that paedophile allegation case now.
And I'm sure any staff who signed confidentiality agreements will also speak out now.

Cheque-book journalism is about to go off the scale.



It makes one wonder about it all.It sounds like the drugs did him in.We have to have drugs to help with our pain and that's good.But then others get hooked on them.I was on very strong meds after surgery but could not wait to get off of them. Yeah they will start coming out the wood work here very soon.
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Postby SusieP » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:35 pm

I don't know what was going on with him.
He was definitely troubled.
His face change is proof of that.

I think we probably have a situation where he was surrounded by hangers-on who were with him because he was famous and rich etc etc and they just said yes to his every whim whether it was sensible or not.

These 'yes' people and 'enablers' need to take a very long, hard look at themselves and their behaviour if you ask me.

Particularly Doctors and surgeons who had the authority to say no and the 'power' to help his hypochondria and his mental state.

If he was just a hypochondriac then couldn't they have prescribed him a placebo or sugar pill and let him think he was getting medication?

Whatever, there are certainly going to be lots of conflicting stories.

And the circus will get even crazier now.
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Postby bluejeangirl76 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:41 pm

SusieP wrote:OK, here's something very curious which was in a Brit newspaper yesterday.......some guy who has a biography coming out about Michael next week said in December 2008 that Michael had a lung disease and only had six months to live.
The author is called Ian Halperin. His book is called The Final Years Of Michael Jackson.
So..............has this been reported anywhere else?
Did I imagine it?
Could it be true?


I've not heard anything about a book like that, nor have I heard anything about lung disease. Seems to me like this is conjecture plain and simple... there are going to be so many things said now... more now than when he was alive, probably. Everyone has a side of the story, people who knew him, didn't know him, met him one time for 15 seconds... but it's a big story and everyone wants to find a way in on it. Juat like with any big star. It's kind of sick. And the sad and pathetic part (almost as bad as those who leech on that way) are the ones who just blindly believe every story and rumor. I don't even believe the news half the time, let alone tabloid journalists.

If he did have any type of condition like that, it would have been found in the autopsy, or may be reported in the final determination. But I doubt anything like that will be found. It seems clear that this was a result of years of abuse of prescriptions.
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Postby SusieP » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:43 pm

This report was in a respectable newspaper yesterday. Which is why I asked if the lung disease story had been reported any where else.
The book is due out next week and the author apparently made the comments in December.

It does make you wonder.


This coroner guy has a lot of pressure on him doesn't he?

If the tox reports etc come back 'inconclusive' - it will all go nuts.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:58 am

Michael Jackson was one of the greatest performers and greatest tragedies of our time. We'll never have a true superstar of his caliber like that again -- not in this lifetime anyway. That level of lasting stardom was only possible in a time where we had no Internet, no immediate access to anything and everything. We actually had to wait for a song on the radio or a video on TV to play, a new magazine to hit the stands, and save up and make a trip to the store to buy records or cassettes to experience them. Even concert ticket prices were reasonable. The playing field was much smaller and allowed the Michael Jackson's, the Prince's, the Madonna's to become as huge as they were on more of their own merits, and they had much, much more control of their careers than most do now. He broke a ton of ground in pop music and definitely deserves the title "King of Pop". Who else could get away with inventing his own words in songs like "sh'mon"?

We live now in a culture that pushes excess and immense wealth and luxury as the key to happiness, whether it's all these "Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous" or "MTV Cribs" types of shows, "Extreme Home Makeover", whatever. Michael Jackson disproves all of this. Music will miss him, and so will I. Hope he's finally found some peace.
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Postby bluejeangirl76 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:15 am

Fact Finder wrote:Here ya go Susie....


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ago.html


'I'm better off dead. I'm done': Michael Jackson's fateful prediction just a week before his death

By Ian Halperin
Last updated at 9:13 AM on 28th June 2009

*Genetic condition had ruined his lungs and left him unable to sing*
*He became so skeletal, doctors believed he was anorexic*
*He had nightmares about being murdered – and wanted to die*
*He used swine flu as an excuse to avoid coming to England*
*He thought he was agreeing to 10 concerts – it was 50*


The only one of those I have ever heard reported is the last item. The rest sounds like b.s.

Anorexic? He has always been insanely thin.
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Postby SusieP » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:22 am

Fact Finder wrote:Here ya go Susie....


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ago.html


'I'm better off dead. I'm done': Michael Jackson's fateful prediction just a week before his death

By Ian Halperin
Last updated at 9:13 AM on 28th June 2009

*Genetic condition had ruined his lungs and left him unable to sing*
*He became so skeletal, doctors believed he was anorexic*
*He had nightmares about being murdered – and wanted to die*
*He used swine flu as an excuse to avoid coming to England*
*He thought he was agreeing to 10 concerts – it was 50*




Yes this is the paper I read it in......The Daily Mail.

But it seems to have been the only one to run this story.

So I wondered if anyone else had heard the story before this?

Obviously if he was unable to sing, he wouldn't have passed a medical to do the upcoming shows................but the six months to live comment made six months ago struck me as very weird.
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Postby Jana » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:24 am

Fact Finder wrote:Here ya go Susie....


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ago.html


'I'm better off dead. I'm done': Michael Jackson's fateful prediction just a week before his death

By Ian Halperin
Last updated at 9:13 AM on 28th June 2009

*Genetic condition had ruined his lungs and left him unable to sing*
*He became so skeletal, doctors believed he was anorexic*
*He had nightmares about being murdered – and wanted to die*
*He used swine flu as an excuse to avoid coming to England*
*He thought he was agreeing to 10 concerts – it was 50*


Well, I rolled my eyes at first b/f I went on the link. It is a well-written article. But I would take it as 50 percent truth b/c some of his sources are a lot of ex-employees. But even at 50 percent truth it made me so, so sad. There was never going to be a happy ending for Michael with his drug addiction. His staggering debt is depressing. And I don't think healthwise he ever could have completed the amount of shows that were set and needed to get his head above water financially. I hope the part is true where he has protected his children's future with the unreleased songs he had written.
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