Michael Jackson ***August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009***

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Postby Blueskies » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:34 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Rick wrote:If he was a pedophile, why would people have let their kids go to his house after the first bullshit accusation?


Lets see here.....maybe because they were tired of not winning the lottery so they send in little Johnny to get the ball rolling.

Even if MJ didn't molest anyone, he was fucking retarded to put himself in that situation. Yeah, what if a fully grown man who was rich started having little girl sleep over's at his house. Who would start questioning that and who'd let their little girls spend the night over there? Kinda odd that MJ only had little boys though.

You know in earth's history, every civilization that existed before our current one has always become extinct. Well I've realized that stupidity and lack of common sense is going to be what drives our civilization into extinction.


Yes, it is just as possible that they wanted to win the MJ lottery as you sarcastically insinuating that they did not. There has been evidence that was the case. The father was taped in saying as much.

Even if he didn't molest anyone???? Are you reading what you are saying? Even if he's not guilty of it then you are going to unequivocally state in this thread many times that its a fact?? There were girls around sometimes too...but maybe he had more boys around him since he is a male and they being males he related to them and any struggles, hurt or unhappiness they were possibly experiencing as children. So maybe the reasons are more deeper then what you are looking at. Something only looked at on the surface doesn't always reveal the reality to whats beneath....to you it looks suspicious but that doesn't mean nor prove wrong doing.

Common sense should dictate to you that you should not judge a book by its cover...look inside further and investigate fully ...get the whole story...get all the facts in place to be able to clearly see the whole picture and then be able to verify that its authentic. If you only look at the cover and take somes opinion of whats inside then you do not have enough information to judge fairly. Your rush to judgement without anything but circumstantial and not concrete evidence as well as your insults like you just made towards Rick sure aren't showing you in the best light and doesn't lend confidence nor credence in either your argument nor your capacity of common sense. It's quite possible that your reasoning is off and not Ricks nor mine.


You really go above and beyond ignorantly looking completely the other way with this. How do you know MJ did or did not molest those boys? I guess you were a fucking fly on the wall there, yes? You go so far to stick up for this clown that you don't allow the people who don't agree with you on this to voice there opinion about what they think about it. Your such a commie it's not even funny.
:lol: You just wrote to me exactly what you have been doing in opposition. How do you know for sure he did? Were you a fly on the wall? Did you allow me to write my opinion and for Rick to write his opinion without comment ? Did I stop you from making numerous comments in this thread? I didn't even speak my thoughts on this subject until what..page 21, 22? Yet you come in to say something against even after all you've said so far....so you are the commie trying to silence any dissent from the tone of the thread that was had by you and a couple others. Did you think you had the majority opinion and it should rule? Sorry, but some of us will think for ourselves, ok Mussolini. :P
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Postby StoneCold » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:00 am

Fact Finder wrote:Here ya go Susie....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ago.html



That was a good article. Rang a lot more true then the tabloid fodder we've been seeing.
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Postby StoneCold » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:03 am

From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

The King is dead

He missed his childhood and now he's gonna miss his old age.

How fucked up is that?

Michael Jackson never had a chance. He had to succeed for his family, his parents' dreams were dependent upon him.

And a boy with that much pressure delivers. He works truly hard, so he will be loved. That's all Michael Jackson was looking for, love.

He wanted to be accepted. Wanted to be so good that he couldn't be denied. But you can't change family history, and the public no longer treats you as human, as an equal, once you break through. People want to rip you off or tear you down, or shower you in faux love that's more about their unfulfilled desires than yours. It gets so confusing that you retreat.

The Jackson 5 broke through at the tail end of the sixties. When both Motown and Top Forty radio were in decline. But the burst of energy known as "I Want You Back" could not be denied. And the continuous singles made Michael Jackson a star.

He sang a horror movie theme. He endured puberty. He was a faded child star. Then, suddenly, he released a dance floor epic. When disco was supposedly dead, Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones concocted a synthesis of rock and beats that could not be denied. Few were paying attention when "Off The Wall" was released. But over the course of two years, word spread. This was an album that could be played endlessly, that made you feel exuberant, totally alive. We didn't stop listening because we could never get enough.

Then came "Thriller".

There are indelible television moments. When there's only before and after. Michael Jackson's "Motown 25" moonwalk was one of those events. Akin to the landing of Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin on the moon over a decade before. MTV was AOR. Dancing was something you saw on Broadway. Give Walter Yetnikoff credit, he forced MTV to play Michael Jackson and not only was the color barrier broken, not only did videos turn into extravaganzas, the biggest star since the Beatles was hatched, fifteen years after Michael had first gained public notoriety, years after he'd started performing. It's "Outliers" in action. Michael Jackson made it look easy. But there were far in excess of 10,000 hours involved. When everybody was finally paying attention, no one else was close. You had newbie bands from the U.K. who could barely sing, never mind play. And you had this phenomenon prancing on screen fully realized. It was like the 1927 Yankees playing a Little League team.

And then it was over.

There was another album with Q, but it was a step down. There's nowhere to go from the top but down. But Michael Jackson couldn't accept this. Everything had to be bigger and better. A musician's career can last forever. But to have those legs, you've got to have perspective. Existing at the center of the hurricane, unable to step outside the maelstrom, means that you have no frame of reference.

Not that you can't buy one. Or that hucksters and shysters don't try to give you one. You trust everyone but know you can trust no one. You're a party of one. What means so much to everybody else means almost nothing to you. You don't want to give up your money and fame, but they don't buy you peace of mind, they don't buy you love, they don't keep you warm at night.

It's been a sad movie that's been unspooling. We can delineate the low points. But let's just say it started with plastic surgery and it ended with court cases. Michael Jackson just didn't think he was good enough. And when he tried to explain, when he showed up in court in his pajamas, we didn't want to listen, we didn't want to give him a break, we just wanted to make fun of him, deride him.

Michael Jackson was an entertainer until the very end.

It's just that his latest gigs were not inside theatres, but played out on "investigative" television shows and gossip Websites. Everybody was living off Michael Jackson. He gave good ratings. He rescued the hoi polloi from a life of drudgery.

But that's all over now.

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tqYUTjQIc0
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One final note from me...

Postby MBPL » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:45 am

...about Mike J.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXNdO2cVnSI

Enjoy your Sunday. MBPL
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Postby Lora » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:57 am

StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.


Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(
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Postby StevePerryHair » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:02 am

Lora wrote:
StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.


Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(


Exactly. And I was just thinking about this today. It's true of Farrah, Ed McMahon and MJ. We build them up at their peak, they become in MJ's case, bigger than life, and then in the end they are broken down and bankrupt and then they DIE and then everyone feels bad and builds them back up exactly to where they were at their peak. No one made them feel that important since thier peak, and they died not knowing how people would feel when they died. It makes no sense as to why our society does this to celebrities. It's no wonder so many child stars lives end in tragic ways. Society did this to all the celebs who died this week and will continue to do it in the future no doubt. (I should add, it's not just society, media plays a big part in it and society buys into media)
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Postby Blueskies » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:08 am

StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

The King is dead

He missed his childhood and now he's gonna miss his old age.

How fucked up is that?

Michael Jackson never had a chance. He had to succeed for his family, his parents' dreams were dependent upon him.

And a boy with that much pressure delivers. He works truly hard, so he will be loved. That's all Michael Jackson was looking for, love.

He wanted to be accepted. Wanted to be so good that he couldn't be denied. But you can't change family history, and the public no longer treats you as human, as an equal, once you break through. People want to rip you off or tear you down, or shower you in faux love that's more about their unfulfilled desires than yours. It gets so confusing that you retreat.

The Jackson 5 broke through at the tail end of the sixties. When both Motown and Top Forty radio were in decline. But the burst of energy known as "I Want You Back" could not be denied. And the continuous singles made Michael Jackson a star.

He sang a horror movie theme. He endured puberty. He was a faded child star. Then, suddenly, he released a dance floor epic. When disco was supposedly dead, Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones concocted a synthesis of rock and beats that could not be denied. Few were paying attention when "Off The Wall" was released. But over the course of two years, word spread. This was an album that could be played endlessly, that made you feel exuberant, totally alive. We didn't stop listening because we could never get enough.

Then came "Thriller".

There are indelible television moments. When there's only before and after. Michael Jackson's "Motown 25" moonwalk was one of those events. Akin to the landing of Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin on the moon over a decade before. MTV was AOR. Dancing was something you saw on Broadway. Give Walter Yetnikoff credit, he forced MTV to play Michael Jackson and not only was the color barrier broken, not only did videos turn into extravaganzas, the biggest star since the Beatles was hatched, fifteen years after Michael had first gained public notoriety, years after he'd started performing. It's "Outliers" in action. Michael Jackson made it look easy. But there were far in excess of 10,000 hours involved. When everybody was finally paying attention, no one else was close. You had newbie bands from the U.K. who could barely sing, never mind play. And you had this phenomenon prancing on screen fully realized. It was like the 1927 Yankees playing a Little League team.

And then it was over.

There was another album with Q, but it was a step down. There's nowhere to go from the top but down. But Michael Jackson couldn't accept this. Everything had to be bigger and better. A musician's career can last forever. But to have those legs, you've got to have perspective. Existing at the center of the hurricane, unable to step outside the maelstrom, means that you have no frame of reference.

Not that you can't buy one. Or that hucksters and shysters don't try to give you one. You trust everyone but know you can trust no one. You're a party of one. What means so much to everybody else means almost nothing to you. You don't want to give up your money and fame, but they don't buy you peace of mind, they don't buy you love, they don't keep you warm at night.

It's been a sad movie that's been unspooling. We can delineate the low points. But let's just say it started with plastic surgery and it ended with court cases. Michael Jackson just didn't think he was good enough. And when he tried to explain, when he showed up in court in his pajamas, we didn't want to listen, we didn't want to give him a break, we just wanted to make fun of him, deride him.

Michael Jackson was an entertainer until the very end.

It's just that his latest gigs were not inside theatres, but played out on "investigative" television shows and gossip Websites. Everybody was living off Michael Jackson. He gave good ratings. He rescued the hoi polloi from a life of drudgery.

But that's all over now.

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tqYUTjQIc0


That is the most cohesive and insightful view I have read to date. Kudos to Mr. Lefsetz.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:31 am

Blueskies wrote::lol: You just wrote to me exactly what you have been doing in opposition. How do you know for sure he did? Were you a fly on the wall? Did you allow me to write my opinion and for Rick to write his opinion without comment ? Did I stop you from making numerous comments in this thread? I didn't even speak my thoughts on this subject until what..page 21, 22? Yet you come in to say something against even after all you've said so far....so you are the commie trying to silence any dissent from the tone of the thread that was had by you and a couple others. Did you think you had the majority opinion and it should rule? Sorry, but some of us will think for ourselves, ok Mussolini. :P


I was simply trying to phrase it differently so you could possibly understand the point I was trying to make is all. I never said he in fact did these crimes, I simply stated that I personally think he did them, but giving him the benefit of the doubt, if he in fact did not do the crimes, he at least got himself in that situation by having boys spend the night in his bed at his ranch. My only fault right now is thinking you could use your head for more then just growing hair. Yeah, I had that one all completely wrong.

First off, had "concrete" evidence been produced after MJ had molested the last boy, you'd most likely be the first God damn person to wanker about why no one did anything to stop this guy from molesting boys after the first accusation had occured.

Second and utmost importantly, it's dickheads like you who allow murderers, rapists, molestors, etc. to collect more then one victim before enough "concrete" evidence is collected to take him/her off the street and prevent further victims.

Obviously MJ was completely unbalanced by all the weird shit he did to his face and his lifestyle, that's all the concrete evidence I needed in order to not even trust him with my dog or cat, let alone allowing underaged boys to spend the night over at his buttfuck ranch.

And stop bringing other people into your response to me. I'm talking to you! I have no problem at all with what the others think or feel about MJ. It's their right to voice what they think about it and it's their opinion. I truly believe your a moron cause you seem to not allow anyone to feel differently then you.
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Postby Blueskies » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:58 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Blueskies wrote::lol: You just wrote to me exactly what you have been doing in opposition. How do you know for sure he did? Were you a fly on the wall? Did you allow me to write my opinion and for Rick to write his opinion without comment ? Did I stop you from making numerous comments in this thread? I didn't even speak my thoughts on this subject until what..page 21, 22? Yet you come in to say something against even after all you've said so far....so you are the commie trying to silence any dissent from the tone of the thread that was had by you and a couple others. Did you think you had the majority opinion and it should rule? Sorry, but some of us will think for ourselves, ok Mussolini. :P


I was simply trying to phrase it differently so you could possibly understand the point I was trying to make is all. I never said he in fact did these crimes, I simply stated that I personally think he did them, but giving him the benefit of the doubt, if he in fact did not do the crimes, he at least got himself in that situation by having boys spend the night in his bed at his ranch. My only fault right now is thinking you could use your head for more then just growing hair.

First off, had "concrete" evidence been produced after MJ had molested the last boy, you'd most likely be the first God damn person to wanker about why no one did anything to stop this guy from molesting boys after the first accusation had occured.

Second and utmost importantly, it's dickheads like you who allow murderers, rapists, molestors, etc. to collect more then one victim before enough "concrete" evidence is collected to take him/her off the street and prevent further victims.

Obviously MJ was completely unbalanced by all the weird shit he did to his face and his lifestyle, that's all the concrete evidence I needed in order to not even trust him with my dog or cat, let alone allowing underaged boys to spend the night over at his buttfuck ranch.

You say in one sentence that you are giving the benefit of doubt and then contradict that by saying you believe he's guilty ...and guilty by appearances alone. What if he was completely innocent? What further damage could all the accusations have done on an already very fragile psyche? How unjust is it to condemn someone without benefit of trial? and a trial in this case was conducted where he was found not guilty. You don't want to accept the verdict because you are convinced of guilt. Not everyone is convinced and believe that benefit of doubt should be given until a crime is proven...thats why we have the justice system we do. Is it a foolproof one? No....there are mistakes made...and sometimes following the letter of the law allows some who are guilty let go...and sometimes the innocent get condemned....but it's at least set up on principle of balance....( the scales of justice symbolizes this) to at least try to fairly and as accurately as possible render justice for all.

You are totally out of line with " dickheads like you who allow..."
Sorry, but I just don't have a lynchmob mentality and jump to comdemn someone based on gossip,...whats superficial..appearances... just because something looks bad due to conclusions you have drawn from how you perceive it to look. Not everyone perceives things the same way ...and I'm not going to convict someone on mere perceptions. I want more proof then that.

There are a number of books and films I could suggest to you so that you can get a further understanding of what I am saying but I will suggest two Henry Fonda films that may be enough to clarify my viewpoints for you. The Ox-Bow Incident and Twelve Angry Men...those are good starters. :wink:
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Postby Rhiannon » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:21 am

Lora wrote:
StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.


Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(


Yes, there was. His parents in the 60s, his brothers in the 70s, Quincy could have, Liz could have, Janet... anybody. Hell, WE could have. Just some form of genuine support and unconditional love. Someone to sit him down and say, 'you are good enough', someone to get him the help he was screaming for.

Listen to his songs, he was telling the world he was in hell. Its only with hindsight being 20/20 tat we can assess the situation and understand.

And as Lynn said we as a society do this to these people. I thank God that some of our remaining stars got out and saw beyond the lights. The media is largely to blame, but we are inevitably the ones who buy the rags, watch the shows, listen to the hearsay and accept it as gospel.

So eager to see a star fall, forgetting they're human.
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Postby Blueskies » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:27 am

Rhiannon wrote:
Lora wrote:
StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.


Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(


Yes, there was. His parents in the 60s, his brothers in the 70s, Quincy could have, Liz could have, Janet... anybody. Hell, WE could have. Just some form of genuine support and unconditional love. Someone to sit him down and say, 'you are good enough', someone to get him the help he was screaming for.

Listen to his songs, he was telling the world he was in hell. Its only with hindsight being 20/20 tat we can assess the situation and understand.

And as Lynn said we as a society do this to these people. I thank God that some of our remaining stars got out and saw beyond the lights. The media is largely to blame, but we are inevitably the ones who buy the rags, watch the shows, listen to the hearsay and accept it as gospel.

So eager to see a star fall, forgetting they're human.
Excellent post.
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Postby artist4perry » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:30 am

Rhiannon wrote:
Lora wrote:
StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.


Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(


Yes, there was. His parents in the 60s, his brothers in the 70s, Quincy could have, Liz could have, Janet... anybody. Hell, WE could have. Just some form of genuine support and unconditional love. Someone to sit him down and say, 'you are good enough', someone to get him the help he was screaming for.

Listen to his songs, he was telling the world he was in hell. Its only with hindsight being 20/20 tat we can assess the situation and understand.

And as Lynn said we as a society do this to these people. I thank God that some of our remaining stars got out and saw beyond the lights. The media is largely to blame, but we are inevitably the ones who buy the rags, watch the shows, listen to the hearsay and accept it as gospel.

So eager to see a star fall, forgetting they're human.


I have not said much, I do beleive he was set to self destruct. I often wondered how his life could have been if he were raised better. Would their have been a limmit to his success, and happiness. :cry: I remember a percocious sweet child. :(
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Postby Babyblue » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:56 am

Blueskies wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:
Lora wrote:
StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.


Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(


Yes, there was. His parents in the 60s, his brothers in the 70s, Quincy could have, Liz could have, Janet... anybody. Hell, WE could have. Just some form of genuine support and unconditional love. Someone to sit him down and say, 'you are good enough', someone to get him the help he was screaming for.

Listen to his songs, he was telling the world he was in hell. Its only with hindsight being 20/20 tat we can assess the situation and understand.

And as Lynn said we as a society do this to these people. I thank God that some of our remaining stars got out and saw beyond the lights. The media is largely to blame, but we are inevitably the ones who buy the rags, watch the shows, listen to the hearsay and accept it as gospel.

So eager to see a star fall, forgetting they're human.
Excellent post.


Thank You!!!!! Both of your posts was Excellent :wink: :D
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Keep On Rocking Guys:)

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Postby Ehwmatt » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:00 am

Man, I'm watchin the Bucharest concert video that got me into MJ (and to the best of my memory, to 80s music in general) back when I was 6 and it's giving me chills. I will be stunned if I witness another entertainer and talent this good in my life.
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Postby Don » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:03 am

Ehwmatt wrote:Man, I'm watchin the Bucharest concert video that got me into MJ (and to the best of my memory, to 80s music in general) back when I was 6 and it's giving me chills. I will be stunned if I witness another entertainer and talent this good in my life.


As I said somewhere else, If you went to a Michael Jackson Concert, you would not be cheated. The electricity just from him walking across the stage is something that's hard to explain just in itself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwACUTRj6BE
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Postby Jana » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:22 am

artist4perry wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:
Lora wrote:
StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.


Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(


Yes, there was. His parents in the 60s, his brothers in the 70s, Quincy could have, Liz could have, Janet... anybody. Hell, WE could have. Just some form of genuine support and unconditional love. Someone to sit him down and say, 'you are good enough', someone to get him the help he was screaming for.

Listen to his songs, he was telling the world he was in hell. Its only with hindsight being 20/20 tat we can assess the situation and understand.

And as Lynn said we as a society do this to these people. I thank God that some of our remaining stars got out and saw beyond the lights. The media is largely to blame, but we are inevitably the ones who buy the rags, watch the shows, listen to the hearsay and accept it as gospel.

So eager to see a star fall, forgetting they're human.


I have not said much, I do beleive he was set to self destruct. I often wondered how his life could have been if he were raised better. Would their have been a limmit to his success, and happiness. :cry: I remember a percocious sweet child. :(


I am sure many in his family tried to help him over the years. Like Deepak Chopra said, when he would confront him, he would disappear from contact. The nanny said she tried to set up an intervention and she was fired. When you are a drug addict with money and you're an adult, no one can really help until you're ready to receive that help. I can't believe that Janet didn't try to telp him and feel sure she did, as she's level-headed.

I had a friend who was married to a drug addict and his family, tried everything to help him, as did she. But ultimately he would get back out of rehab or even jail straight and start over with the addiction when out. I'm sure there people around him who tried to help and not enable, and he probably then replaced them with the next group of paid lowlifes to get him what he needed. Money can get you what you want. And we the public didn't fail him. Michael secluded himself in a type of fairytail life of his making, spending more than he would possibly make, and had mental issues. Without psychological help and confronting his demons and working on them, instead of long-term drug use, he couldn't get better.
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Postby artist4perry » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:25 am

Jana wrote:
artist4perry wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:
Lora wrote:
StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.


Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(


Yes, there was. His parents in the 60s, his brothers in the 70s, Quincy could have, Liz could have, Janet... anybody. Hell, WE could have. Just some form of genuine support and unconditional love. Someone to sit him down and say, 'you are good enough', someone to get him the help he was screaming for.

Listen to his songs, he was telling the world he was in hell. Its only with hindsight being 20/20 tat we can assess the situation and understand.

And as Lynn said we as a society do this to these people. I thank God that some of our remaining stars got out and saw beyond the lights. The media is largely to blame, but we are inevitably the ones who buy the rags, watch the shows, listen to the hearsay and accept it as gospel.

So eager to see a star fall, forgetting they're human.


I have not said much, I do beleive he was set to self destruct. I often wondered how his life could have been if he were raised better. Would their have been a limmit to his success, and happiness. :cry: I remember a percocious sweet child. :(


I am sure many in his family tried to help him over the years. Like Deepak Chopra said, when he would confront him, he would disappear from contact. The nanny said she tried to set up an intervention and she was fired. When you are a drug addict with money and you're an adult, no one can really help until you're ready to receive that help. I can't believe that Janet didn't try to telp him and feel sure she did, as she's level-headed.

I had a friend who was married to a drug addict and his family, tried everything to help him, as did she. But ultimately he would get back out of rehab or even jail straight and start over with the addiction when out. I'm sure there people around him who tried to help and not enable, and he probably then replaced them with the next group of paid lowlifes to get him what he needed. Money can get you what you want. And we the public didn't fail him. Michael secluded himself in a type of fairytail life of his making, spending more than he would possibly make, and had mental issues. Without psychological help and confronting his demons and working on them, instead of long-term drug use, he couldn't get better.


Check out the drawing he did in the Rock stars and art thread........very sad. :cry:
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Postby Blueskies » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:44 am

Jana wrote:
artist4perry wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:
Lora wrote:
StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.


Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(


Yes, there was. His parents in the 60s, his brothers in the 70s, Quincy could have, Liz could have, Janet... anybody. Hell, WE could have. Just some form of genuine support and unconditional love. Someone to sit him down and say, 'you are good enough', someone to get him the help he was screaming for.

Listen to his songs, he was telling the world he was in hell. Its only with hindsight being 20/20 tat we can assess the situation and understand.

And as Lynn said we as a society do this to these people. I thank God that some of our remaining stars got out and saw beyond the lights. The media is largely to blame, but we are inevitably the ones who buy the rags, watch the shows, listen to the hearsay and accept it as gospel.

So eager to see a star fall, forgetting they're human.


I have not said much, I do beleive he was set to self destruct. I often wondered how his life could have been if he were raised better. Would their have been a limmit to his success, and happiness. :cry: I remember a percocious sweet child. :(


I am sure many in his family tried to help him over the years. Like Deepak Chopra said, when he would confront him, he would disappear from contact. The nanny said she tried to set up an intervention and she was fired. When you are a drug addict with money and you're an adult, no one can really help until you're ready to receive that help. I can't believe that Janet didn't try to telp him and feel sure she did, as she's level-headed.

I had a friend who was married to a drug addict and his family, tried everything to help him, as did she. But ultimately he would get back out of rehab or even jail straight and start over with the addiction when out. I'm sure there people around him who tried to help and not enable, and he probably then replaced them with the next group of paid lowlifes to get him what he needed. Money can get you what you want. And we the public didn't fail him. Michael secluded himself in a type of fairytail life of his making, spending more than he would possibly make, and had mental issues. Without psychological help and confronting his demons and working on them, instead of long-term drug use, he couldn't get better.

Another good post....I think that both yours and Rhi's have very good points. I think it may be a combination of both..he was failed and used by many and an effort to help was made by some...to what extent who knows....maybe to a great extent by a few but he closed them off and didn't want to hear it. Maybe not enough effort was made..maybe some should have been more blunt and tell him what he needed to hear out of concern and love. If he was too insulated to get to...no you can't help anyone who are in denial of their addiction and doesn't want to be helped and push you away. Yes I think it's a complicated combination, but who knows since none of us have personal involvement and knowledge from it. We can talk on general principles but as far as individuals it's all speculation on our parts unless we were involved.
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Postby Jana » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:47 am

Lisa Marie Presley comments on trying to help him:

"But Presley now writes that the relationship was too emotionally taxing. "I became very ill and emotionally/spiritually exhausted in my quest to save him from certain self-destructive behavior and from the awful vampires and leeches he would always manage to magnetize around him," she writes. "I was in over my head while trying."
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Postby stevew2 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:51 am

Rip Rokken wrote:Michael Jackson was one of the greatest performers and greatest tragedies of our time. We'll never have a true superstar of his caliber like that again -- not in this lifetime anyway. That level of lasting stardom was only possible in a time where we had no Internet, no immediate access to anything and everything. We actually had to wait for a song on the radio or a video on TV to play, a new magazine to hit the stands, and save up and make a trip to the store to buy records or cassettes to experience them. Even concert ticket prices were reasonable. The playing field was much smaller and allowed the Michael Jackson's, the Prince's, the Madonna's to become as huge as they were on more of their own merits, and they had much, much more control of their careers than most do now. He broke a ton of ground in pop music and definitely deserves the title "King of Pop". Who else could get away with inventing his own words in songs like "sh'mon"?

We live now in a culture that pushes excess and immense wealth and luxury as the key to happiness, whether it's all these "Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous" or "MTV Cribs" types of shows, "Extreme Home Makeover", whatever. Michael Jackson disproves all of this. Music will miss him, and so will I. Hope he's finally found some peace.
What does Sh,mon mean? Does it mean you are telling a turd to come out?
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Postby StoneCold » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:58 am

Jana wrote:Lisa Marie Presley comments on trying to help him:

"But Presley now writes that the relationship was too emotionally taxing. "I became very ill and emotionally/spiritually exhausted in my quest to save him from certain self-destructive behavior and from the awful vampires and leeches he would always manage to magnetize around him," she writes. "I was in over my head while trying."



LMP isn't the most caring person in the world though. She comes across tough as nails. Just slightly gentler than Joan Jett.
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Postby StoneCold » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:06 am

Rhiannon wrote:
Lora wrote:
StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.



Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(


Yes, there was. His parents in the 60s, his brothers in the 70s, Quincy could have, Liz could have, Janet... anybody. Hell, WE could have. Just some form of genuine support and unconditional love. Someone to sit him down and say, 'you are good enough', someone to get him the help he was screaming for.



His parents? No way, they started the snowball rolling. No way they'd to stop the gravy train.

Brothers? Didn't have the know how or the want to.

Quincy? Business relationship.

Liz? She had her own problems.

Jermaine, Janet and Diana Ross had the closest shot at effecting change.

MJ went downhill fast in the last 5 years. Might've been impossible to intervene.
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Postby donnaplease » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:07 am

Jana wrote:Lisa Marie Presley comments on trying to help him:

"But Presley now writes that the relationship was too emotionally taxing. "I became very ill and emotionally/spiritually exhausted in my quest to save him from certain self-destructive behavior and from the awful vampires and leeches he would always manage to magnetize around him," she writes. "I was in over my head while trying."


I read this in her MySpace blog, but it wasn't until I read it here that a vision of another dead star popped into my head. Anna Nicole. Obviously their star power isn't even in the same galaxy, but the 'vampires and leeches' were certainly there for both. I can see a strange parallel.

If you read the entire blog, it seems that Lisa Marie truly did love MJ. Who knows. We all tend to care more deeply for someone after they've died. Isn't a shame we don't tell those we love how much we care while they're still with us?

Tell your family and friends you love them the next time you see or talk to them. You might not get the chance again. :wink:
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Postby Don » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:14 am

My son went to a rave at the Los Angeles Coliseum on Friday and Saturday. 90,000 kids there. On Saturday, each DJ did their own techno tribute to Jackson, covering all eras of his career. It wasn't planned but watching the videos he took with his iphone, it's very moving and very cool. The music is definitely timeless.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:56 am

This is the only tribute I really need to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtHplDaZv6Q
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Postby Don » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:22 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:This is the only tribute I really need to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtHplDaZv6Q


Stern's a hoot. He had some good material on filipinos too. A fucking laugh riot. :roll:
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:28 am

Gunbot wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:This is the only tribute I really need to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtHplDaZv6Q


Stern's a hoot. He had some good material on filipinos too. A fucking laugh riot. :roll:


Filipinos? That must have been after I was finished listening to him (94'-96') cause I never once heard him say anything about Filipinos.
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Postby Ehwmatt » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:32 am

Gunbot wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:This is the only tribute I really need to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtHplDaZv6Q


Stern's a hoot. He had some good material on filipinos too. A fucking laugh riot. :roll:


I used to love Howard, but the times I've caught him (don't have satellite) he's been a bit uninspired. It's almost like the subtlety he had to masterfully weave into his over the top hit over public airwaves was the secret ingredient to his being incredibly funny. Now that he can do anything, you expect it, know what i mean?
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Postby Peartree12249 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:36 am

Rhiannon wrote:
Lora wrote:
StoneCold wrote:From Bob Lefsetz:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/

Sony can be thrilled that the digital marketplace insures there's endless inventory for those sitting shiva to buy. And they're going to end up with the Beatles catalog too. But we've lost something with the passing of Michael Jackson. A belief that America is a good-hearted place, a supportive place, where we want everybody to have a good life and be happy.

Wonder about the price of fame? Just look at the miserable Jon & Kate. Never mind their eight children.

We did this to Michael Jackson. And there wasn't a single person who could save him. He was too isolated.

We'll remember where we were when we heard the news. But I'd rather remember that explosion emanating from the radio back in '69.

Michael, we want you back! We want to see you moonwalk one more time! We want you to sing "Billie Jean"!

Alas, that's impossible.

As he once sang, "now it's much too late for me to take a second look."

The king is dead.

Long live the king.


Beautifully articulated sentiments. Tragically, there really wasn't a single person who could have saved him. :(


Yes, there was. His parents in the 60s, his brothers in the 70s, Quincy could have, Liz could have, Janet... anybody. Hell, WE could have. Just some form of genuine support and unconditional love. Someone to sit him down and say, 'you are good enough', someone to get him the help he was screaming for.Listen to his songs, he was telling the world he was in hell. Its only with hindsight being 20/20 tat we can assess the situation and understand.

And as Lynn said we as a society do this to these people. I thank God that some of our remaining stars got out and saw beyond the lights. The media is largely to blame, but we are inevitably the ones who buy the rags, watch the shows, listen to the hearsay and accept it as gospel.

So eager to see a star fall, forgetting they're human.



I hear what you're saying Rhi, but I have to disagree. No one can fix you if you don't want to be fixed. In this country, the mentally ill cannot be committed to a psychiatric hospital unless they are deemed a danger to themselves or others. So that usually means they have to hurt or kill someone or attempt to kill themself before they can be forced into treatment. Regarding addiction, no one can fix the addict but themselves. Believe me, I spent 30 years trying to fix a loved one and nothing I did or said would get them into treatment. Fortunately this person finally hit bottom and got sober. I had nothing to do with it. Michael Jackson had access to the best mental health care money could buy if he wished to avail himself of it. He chose not to.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:37 am

Ehwmatt wrote:
Gunbot wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:This is the only tribute I really need to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtHplDaZv6Q


Stern's a hoot. He had some good material on filipinos too. A fucking laugh riot. :roll:


I used to love Howard, but the times I've caught him (don't have satellite) he's been a bit uninspired. It's almost like the subtlety he had to masterfully weave into his over the top hit over public airwaves was the secret ingredient to his being incredibly funny. Now that he can do anything, you expect it, know what i mean?


I've heard that from a lot of people too who continue to listen to his show.
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