Michael Jackson ***August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009***

[strangegrey]

Thriller from a special show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYrUQItmW4s

obviously live

Finally, actual singing....and not a very vocal performance...

[Sarah]

Deal with it....I didn't find the person very talented....

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. Millions of people think he was incredibly talented, you're not gonna convince anyone otherwise.

[Barb]

Deal with it....I didn't find the person very talented....

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. Millions of people think he was incredibly talented, you're not gonna convince anyone otherwise.

He sold 750 million albums worldwide because he had no talent.

I love ya Frank, but you can't see clearly through those hate filled glasses you're wearing.

[G.I.Jim]

Deal with it....I didn't find the person very talented....

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. Millions of people think he was incredibly talented, you're not gonna convince anyone otherwise.

He sold 750 million albums worldwide because he had no talent.

I love ya Frank, but you can't see clearly through those hate filled glasses you're wearing.

That, and he drinks a LOT of Haterade!

[Don]

Human Nature, live 1987

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAH-8tRbZdw

I always loved this song anyway - it's one of my faves of his, along with "Rock With You" and "The Way You Make Me Feel."
And watching and listening to this clip I got goosebumps.

Less is more as proved by this clip. Simple yet fabulous.

Thanks for the link GB.

From the same concert.

Rock With You ( He actually looks happy, very relaxed talking to the crowd)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajuh1jNlfrE

She's Out Of My Life (Plenty of emotion in this one, the crowd loves it)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkbPlpb7-7U

[Saint John]

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

Ahh...The Big Lebowski. What a fucking great movie!

[The Sushi Hunter]

Deal with it....I didn't find the person very talented....

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. Millions of people think he was incredibly talented, you're not gonna convince anyone otherwise.

He sold 750 million albums worldwide because he had no talent.

I love ya Frank, but you can't see clearly through those hate filled glasses you're wearing.

Yeah, MJ was very talented and that is what got him where he was. But I would also say that for the past 17 or 18 years not much of anything really talent wise came from MJ. Up until about 91' or 92' he was really good. After about that time, it was all the odd behavior with the boys and the surgeries that kept him in the spotlight most of the time up until his death.

[xfactor]

Yeah, MJ was very talented and that is what got him where he was. But I would also say that for the past 17 or 18 years not much of anything really talent wise came from MJ. Up until about 91' or 92' he was really good. After about that time, it was all the odd behavior with the boys and the surgeries that kept him in the spotlight most of the time up until his death.

True. A great talent wasted (thanks to the media).

one example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvhwWDCV9Bo

[JeremyP]

He sold 750 million albums worldwide because he had no talent.

I love ya Frank, but you can't see clearly through those hate filled glasses you're wearing.

Yep.

Yeah, MJ was very talented and that is what got him where he was. But I would also say that for the past 17 or 18 years not much of anything really talent wise came from MJ. Up until about 91' or 92' he was really good. After about that time, it was all the odd behavior with the boys and the surgeries that kept him in the spotlight most of the time up until his death.

I liked quite a few songs from the HIStory album. "Scream, Stranger In Moscow, They Don't Care About Us, Earth Song...etc. Good stuff. And that VMA performance from '95. Killer.

[brandonx76]

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

Ahh...The Big Lebowski. What a fucking great movie!

"Do you have to use so many curse words?"

[StoneCold]

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

Ahh...The Big Lebowski. What a fucking great movie!

"Do you have to use so many curse words?"

Well, like, random post extension here.

Shuffling full 40gb ipod and what song ques up while reading Sarah's post?

Shamon it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG5NhkxQJQc

[SusieP]

I looked at the other video clips posted, and to be honest I got bored.

His moves are more or less the same for every song.

And Jeffrey Daniel of Shalamar danced just as well and probably did the moves before him.
Also many of the moves are a direct rip off of Liza Minelli's stage shows and Bob Fosse's choreography. Very reminiscent.

And the short trousers and white socks were definitely copied from Gene Kelly.

Undoubtedly he was very talented, but I'm still not a fan.

I do love many of his songs, as I've said, but I can't go overboard about him.
And I certainly cannot forget the weirdness and the allegations.

Sorry but I can't.

[strangegrey]

Deal with it....I didn't find the person very talented....

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. Millions of people think he was incredibly talented, you're not gonna convince anyone otherwise.

He sold 750 million albums worldwide because he had no talent.

I love ya Frank, but you can't see clearly through those hate filled glasses you're wearing.

Record sales != talent

I can show you TONS of proof to that....I'm sorry. If talent were a prereq for record sales, Britany Spears would be unknown trailer park trash.

I get the fact that people see Jackson's talent with respect to dancing, etc.....but I, personally, do not subscribe to it. The fact that *I* didn't find the person talented, doesn't mean that others didnt.....

I don't think the ability to dance should equate to millions of records sold. Talent, with respect to record sales, should be musical...not choreographic. There's zero evidence that Jackson wrote his own music....and when Bashir asked him to unfold the writing process in his video, the child-molester started dancing for him....WTF! I've never seen Jackson play a musical instrument...etc...

Did he deliver it in a way that resonated with people? sure....I can't deny that. It still doesn't make an ounce of difference to me, as I don't see what was so special about him....I was bored and changed the channel halfway through the premier of the thriller video, the only Michael Jackson song I ever voluntarily listened to more than twice, was Beat It....and that's because EVH played on it.

[strangegrey]

I love ya Frank, but you can't see clearly through those hate filled glasses you're wearing.

That, and he drinks a LOT of Haterade!

Let me address this, because this shit is starting to get not only offensive, but as predictable as the race-baiting that went on here a year or two ago..I resent the fact that people are so quick to throw out the 'hate' word in an effort to invalidate the issue I, and plenty of others, had with this person.

This is starting to get like "you're a racist" bullshit because someone didn't like Arnel. You cut off the person at the knees, just because they didn't appreciate what Arnel brought or couldn't bring to the table....and you do it with a damning label so you can appoint your position on the issue as the morally just one in the argument. That's fucking appalling. Completely and utterly...

The problem is, you can't make the same claim here without having to stand on a morally questionable platform. There is MORE than enough evidence to question Michael Jackson's actions with children over the past 20 years....and the morally just platform is a hard platform to stand on, for someone who will defend his actions, to protect whatever talent he or she feels Jackson had.


Regardless, the fact that I resented (NOT hated) this individual's ability to skirt legal prosecution should in NO way have anything to do with my like or dislike of his music.

I didn't dislike wacko jacko's music any more than I liked it. I was NOT emotionally invested in it....so my view on his life as a predatory pedophile has NOTHING to do with my view on his musical ability...So....throw out the fucking "hate" accusations. Throw it right the fuck out of the window...

this is not an issue of hate.

I just don't see what the big fucking deal about this person's musical works are.

If people are THAT desperate to rush to defend their memories of this person's music, to attack people with labels like "Hate" (which, these days, is a precursor to 'racist')...I'll suggest that you seek some professional emotional and mental help...you're the one with the issues.

[G.I.Jim]

I love ya Frank, but you can't see clearly through those hate filled glasses you're wearing.

That, and he drinks a LOT of Haterade!

Let me address this, because this shit is starting to get not only offensive, but as predictable as the race-baiting that went on here a year or two ago..I resent the fact that people are so quick to throw out the 'hate' word in an effort to invalidate the issue I, and plenty of others, had with this person.

This is starting to get like "you're a racist" bullshit because someone didn't like Arnel. You cut off the person at the knees, just because they didn't appreciate what Arnel brought or couldn't bring to the table....and you do it with a damning label so you can appoint your position on the issue as the morally just one in the argument. That's fucking appalling. Completely and utterly...

The problem is, you can't make the same claim here without having to stand on a morally questionable platform. There is MORE than enough evidence to question Michael Jackson's actions with children over the past 20 years....and the morally just platform is a hard platform to stand on, for someone who will defend his actions, to protect whatever talent he or she feels Jackson had.


Regardless, the fact that I resented (NOT hated) this individual's ability to skirt legal prosecution should in NO way have anything to do with my like or dislike of his music.

I didn't dislike wacko jacko's music any more than I liked it. I was NOT emotionally invested in it....so my view on his life as a predatory pedophile has NOTHING to do with my view on his musical ability...So....throw out the fucking "hate" accusations. Throw it right the fuck out of the window...

this is not an issue of hate.

I just don't see what the big fucking deal about this person's musical works are.

If people are THAT desperate to rush to defend their memories of this person's music, to attack people with labels like "Hate" (which, these days, is a precursor to 'racist')...I'll suggest that you seek some professional emotional and mental help...you're the one with the issues.

How about you chill the fuck out and look above! Did you see those little SMILEY faces? Damn...You've got some real pent-up anger you cranky, racist hate monger!

[Barb]

Deal with it....I didn't find the person very talented....

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. Millions of people think he was incredibly talented, you're not gonna convince anyone otherwise.

He sold 750 million albums worldwide because he had no talent.

I love ya Frank, but you can't see clearly through those hate filled glasses you're wearing.

Record sales != talent

I can show you TONS of proof to that....I'm sorry. If talent were a prereq for record sales, Britany Spears would be unknown trailer park trash.

I get the fact that people see Jackson's talent with respect to dancing, etc.....but I, personally, do not subscribe to it. The fact that *I* didn't find the person talented, doesn't mean that others didnt.....

I don't think the ability to dance should equate to millions of records sold. Talent, with respect to record sales, should be musical...not choreographic. There's zero evidence that Jackson wrote his own music....and when Bashir asked him to unfold the writing process in his video, the child-molester started dancing for him....WTF! I've never seen Jackson play a musical instrument...etc...

Did he deliver it in a way that resonated with people? sure....I can't deny that. It still doesn't make an ounce of difference to me, as I don't see what was so special about him....I was bored and changed the channel halfway through the premier of the thriller video, the only Michael Jackson song I ever voluntarily listened to more than twice, was Beat It....and that's because EVH played on it.

Wow. You need to relax a little bit. You've made your thoughts on MJ very clear. I'll retract the word "hate" and just say that I don't think you look at him objectively. Better?

Geez.

[The Sushi Hunter]

I'm sick and tired of people raising the "hate" flag every time someone doesn't agree with what they think is the right way.

[brandonx76]

If you just listen to his music, his lyrics - and his actions on record, it's hard to bridge where the guy was here to do anything other than to contribute something exponentially positive to the human experience. I agree with his brother, we weren't ready for him, and he was a gift.

[strangegrey]

How about you chill the fuck out and look above! Did you see those little SMILEY faces? Damn...You've got some real pent-up anger you cranky, racist hate monger!

Dude, seriously....it's NOT cool to throw those words around....I don't care WHAT kind of fucking smiley faces you have running around it.....

I don't give a flying fuck if it's in jest or not....you're an asshole for doing it.

[JeremyP]

I don't think the ability to dance should equate to millions of records sold. Talent, with respect to record sales, should be musical...not choreographic. There's zero evidence that Jackson wrote his own music....and when Bashir asked him to unfold the writing process in his video, the child-molester started dancing for him....WTF! I've never seen Jackson play a musical instrument...etc...

Ok, I just wanna clarify something, since you've said this twice now. In the doc, Bashir asked Michael, "How do you write a song?", and Michael explained, "If I sat down at this piano(*gasp* an instrument!) and played some chords or whatever and said, 'I'm gonna write the best song I've ever written', nothing happens", and he explained how it has to be the right time and you have to feel inspired...then he went on to explain how he wrote Billie Jean and Bashir asked if it was the same for the dance, Michael said it was, and Bashir said, "Ok, show me...get up and show me.". Michael didn't want to, and Bashir insisted.



Re-watch that part and you'll see it.

Anyway, sorry about the long explanation but you made me.

[strangegrey]

Wow. You need to relax a little bit. You've made your thoughts on MJ very clear. I'll retract the word "hate" and just say that I don't think you look at him objectively. Better?

Geez.

Thanks for the retraction on the hate word....but seriously, if you're going to do that, then there's no need for the relax comment EITHER.


I feel strongly about pedo-predators. If you knew me personally, you'd know that my position is entirely based on the fact that I did outreach work with abused children in high school....


But seriously, think about this for a second.


Do you honestly think I should have EVER qualified my position on pedo-predators by saying "Hey, I've got a real good reason, so it's OK that I feel the way I do"....I mean, holy fucking shite! A person shouldn't have to say that he has a better reason to resent the actions of an abuser than most, just to justify his position on it...



If we weren't talking about a fucking musician, most of the people in this thread would be right next to me, not only denouncing his actions, but feeling strongly about the well-being of the children he abused.


That's what's sickening about this....I felt nothing with this pedo-predator's music, I didn't hate it, I didn't love it....and this is before he paid his way out of getting thrown in jail in 1993. I have ZERO emotional connection to it...



....the fact that you fucking people have throw hate/racism comments just to protect your feelings about his music, and shield your guilt on his child abuse history, is not, and never will be my problem.



But I will NOT allow anyone to throw around hate/racism accusations, so you can feel better about yourselves. It was bad enough with the race baiting shit that went on with Arnel...


....given Jackson's victims don't have a voice when he gets canonized on tuesday at the staples center, it's FUCKING SHAMEFUL that the hate/race words are getting thrown around at people who feel it important to stand up for them.

Holy shit....I'm speechless....really...

[Barb]

....the fact that you fucking people ...

No, you're not being hateful or over the top in any way at all.

[Babyblue]

Wow. You need to relax a little bit. You've made your thoughts on MJ very clear. I'll retract the word "hate" and just say that I don't think you look at him objectively. Better?

Geez.

Thanks for the retraction on the hate word....but seriously, if you're going to do that, then there's no need for the relax comment EITHER.


I feel strongly about pedo-predators. If you knew me personally, you'd know that my position is entirely based on the fact that I did outreach work with abused children in high school....


But seriously, think about this for a second.


Do you honestly think I should have EVER qualified my position on pedo-predators by saying "Hey, I've got a real good reason, so it's OK that I feel the way I do"....I mean, holy fucking shite! A person shouldn't have to say that he has a better reason to resent the actions of an abuser than most, just to justify his position on it...



If we weren't talking about a fucking musician, most of the people in this thread would be right next to me, not only denouncing his actions, but feeling strongly about the well-being of the children he abused.


That's what's sickening about this....I felt nothing with this pedo-predator's music, I didn't hate it, I didn't love it....and this is before he paid his way out of getting thrown in jail in 1993. I have ZERO emotional connection to it...



....the fact that you fucking people have throw hate/racism comments just to protect your feelings about his music, and shield your guilt on his child abuse history, is not, and never will be my problem.



But I will NOT allow anyone to throw around hate/racism accusations, so you can feel better about yourselves. It was bad enough with the race baiting shit that went on with Arnel...


....given Jackson's victims don't have a voice when he gets canonized on tuesday at the staples center, it's FUCKING SHAMEFUL that the hate/race words are getting thrown around at people who feel it important to stand up for them.

Holy shit....I'm speechless....really...

\




I was not going to get into this.But just how do you know he did this to any of the boy's??It is all just hear say.Have you walked in his shoes to know this?My God the man is no longer with us.I in my heart feel the boy's fathers wanted there 15mins of fame and show me money time.I hate no one it's just not in me.He was a good and loving man in his own way.Please just let him rest now.Do you really know how much he was hurt by people and the things that was said about him.Give the man a break now.

[T-Bone]

33 pages of "mostly" decent comments and a few shitheaded ones is quite enough to get peoples points accross regarding Michael Jackson, his talent, hostory, musical contributions, etc...

Let it rest already...

[Andrew]

I'll re-open this, but watch where it is going....

[Behshad]

I'll re-open this, but watch where it is going....

thanks boss we shall behave. Right , Frank ?!;)

[StoneCold]

I'll re-open this, but watch where it is going....

thanks boss we shall behave. Right , Frank ?!;)

Sort of behavin'

Who is B's new av girl?

[madsplash]

Listen........Child molestors don't strike every 10 years! 1993---2003 C'mon.

Millions love him. If you don't, don't put his fucking name on your lips. Keep your ignorant hate to yourself and deal with the fact that he gave thousands of hours and millions of dollars to children's charities.

DEAL with the hundreds of millions who love him. DEAL WITH IT! If you don't, go off in a corner somwhere and SOB. You lose.

[G.I.Jim]

Listen........Child molestors don't strike every 10 years! 1993---2003 C'mon.

Millions love him. If you don't, don't put his fucking name on your lips. Keep your ignorant hate to yourself and deal with the fact that he gave thousands of hours and millions of dollars to children's charities.

DEAL with the hundreds of millions who love him. DEAL WITH IT! If you don't, go off in a corner somwhere and SOB. You lose.

That's the kind of non-offensive, non-provoking form of comminication that Andrew was hoping for! While I feel the same way that you do about it MS, all that kind of talk is going to do is stir up those that are against him. Just saying...Your world dog, I'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut!

[Enigma869]

Yeah, MJ was very talented and that is what got him where he was. But I would also say that for the past 17 or 18 years not much of anything really talent wise came from MJ. Up until about 91' or 92' he was really good. After about that time, it was all the odd behavior with the boys and the surgeries that kept him in the spotlight most of the time up until his death.

I've given a whole lot of thought to Michael Jackson...his life, his legacy, and his music. Let me first state that I found Michael to be one of the oddest people I had ever seen in the music business. That said, he was beyond brilliant, as a musician. I don't know whether or not he molested children, and not sure anyone really does. As the father of a young son, I would certainly never condone such disgusting behavior. I've seen many interviews with Michael over the years and found him to be a very fascinating figure. How someone that shy (and he was as painfully shy as ANY celebrity in the history of the world) could get up in front of tens of thousands of people and perform the way he performed always stunned me. It seemed incongruous with a man who CLEARLY wasn't comfortable in his own skin (both literally and figureatively)! The thing that always struck me most about Michael was how childlike he was, even though he was a grown man. He always came across like he was a 10 year old boy who was soooooo out of touch with reality. I think a big part of Michael's torture was the fact that he never lived his life out of the public eye, and that simply cannot be an easy existence. The money, success, and accolades aside, I can't imagine ANYONE would EVER want to live a life where they could NEVER EVER EVER simply be a "normal" human being (or at least normal in Michael's world)! I also found that Michael came across as a very sympathetic figure in the interviews I saw of him over the years. I personally think his dad fucked the guy up for life, at a very young age, and he simply wasn't equipped with the tools to overcome his dad's shortcomings as a parent. Again, I am not condoning a single thing that Michael did that was illegal. I simply feel sorry for a guy who I have always viewed (and I believed it long before his shocking death two weeks ago) as a very tragic figure.

As for the point that Michael simply hadn't done much in the past 20 years...It's the same dopey argument people make with Perry. It doesn't work in Perry's case, and it certainly doesn't work in Michael Jackson's case. As far as I can tell, there isn't a rule somewhere that says one has to sustain his or her brilliance for X number of years to validate his or her talent! Michael Jackson's musical legacy was FIRMLY cemented long before his untimely death. His music speaks for itself and the fact that he hadn't had a hit record in 15+ years couldn't be less relevant! An artist's body of work doesn't become and less or more relevant based on the number of years that said artist plyed their craft!