Michael Jackson ***August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009***

[Don]

"First of all, you start off envying, and then you're just thankful you don't have to go through what he went through. I mean, that would have been treacherous for anybody. And so I loved his music. ... There are very few people that represent certain eras of music. And he definitely was one of them."

Kenny Rogers

[Don]

Yeah, MJ was very talented and that is what got him where he was. But I would also say that for the past 17 or 18 years not much of anything really talent wise came from MJ. Up until about 91' or 92' he was really good. After about that time, it was all the odd behavior with the boys and the surgeries that kept him in the spotlight most of the time up until his death.

I've given a whole lot of thought to Michael Jackson...his life, his legacy, and his music. Let me first state that I found Michael to be one of the oddest people I had ever seen in the music business. That said, he was beyond brilliant, as a musician. I don't know whether or not he molested children, and not sure anyone really does. As the father of a young son, I would certainly never condone such disgusting behavior. I've seen many interviews with Michael over the years and found him to be a very fascinating figure. How someone that shy (and he was as painfully shy as ANY celebrity in the history of the world) could get up in front of tens of thousands of people and perform the way he performed always stunned me. It seemed incongruous with a man who CLEARLY wasn't comfortable in his own skin (both literally and figureatively)! The thing that always struck me most about Michael was how childlike he was, even though he was a grown man. He always came across like he was a 10 year old boy who was soooooo out of touch with reality. I think a big part of Michael's torture was the fact that he never lived his life out of the public eye, and that simply cannot be an easy existence. The money, success, and accolades aside, I can't imagine ANYONE would EVER want to live a life where they could NEVER EVER EVER simply be a "normal" human being (or at least normal in Michael's world)! I also found that Michael came across as a very sympathetic figure in the interviews I saw of him over the years. I personally think his dad fucked the guy up for life, at a very young age, and he simply wasn't equipped with the tools to overcome his dad's shortcomings as a parent. Again, I am not condoning a single thing that Michael did that was illegal. I simply feel sorry for a guy who I have always viewed (and I believed it long before his shocking death two weeks ago) as a very tragic figure.

As for the point that Michael simply hadn't done much in the past 20 years...It's the same dopey argument people make with Perry. It doesn't work in Perry's case, and it certainly doesn't work in Michael Jackson's case. As far as I can tell, there isn't a rule somewhere that says one has to sustain his or her brilliance for X number of years to validate his or her talent! Michael Jackson's musical legacy was FIRMLY cemented long before his untimely death. His music speaks for itself and the fact that he hadn't had a hit record in 15+ years couldn't be less relevant! An artist's body of work doesn't become and less or more relevant based on the number of years that said artist plyed their craft!

What a great post.

[treetopovskaya]

Yeah, MJ was very talented and that is what got him where he was. But I would also say that for the past 17 or 18 years not much of anything really talent wise came from MJ. Up until about 91' or 92' he was really good. After about that time, it was all the odd behavior with the boys and the surgeries that kept him in the spotlight most of the time up until his death.

I've given a whole lot of thought to Michael Jackson...his life, his legacy, and his music. Let me first state that I found Michael to be one of the oddest people I had ever seen in the music business. That said, he was beyond brilliant, as a musician. I don't know whether or not he molested children, and not sure anyone really does. As the father of a young son, I would certainly never condone such disgusting behavior. I've seen many interviews with Michael over the years and found him to be a very fascinating figure. How someone that shy (and he was as painfully shy as ANY celebrity in the history of the world) could get up in front of tens of thousands of people and perform the way he performed always stunned me. It seemed incongruous with a man who CLEARLY wasn't comfortable in his own skin (both literally and figureatively)! The thing that always struck me most about Michael was how childlike he was, even though he was a grown man. He always came across like he was a 10 year old boy who was soooooo out of touch with reality. I think a big part of Michael's torture was the fact that he never lived his life out of the public eye, and that simply cannot be an easy existence. The money, success, and accolades aside, I can't imagine ANYONE would EVER want to live a life where they could NEVER EVER EVER simply be a "normal" human being (or at least normal in Michael's world)! I also found that Michael came across as a very sympathetic figure in the interviews I saw of him over the years. I personally think his dad fucked the guy up for life, at a very young age, and he simply wasn't equipped with the tools to overcome his dad's shortcomings as a parent. Again, I am not condoning a single thing that Michael did that was illegal. I simply feel sorry for a guy who I have always viewed (and I believed it long before his shocking death two weeks ago) as a very tragic figure.

As for the point that Michael simply hadn't done much in the past 20 years...It's the same dopey argument people make with Perry. It doesn't work in Perry's case, and it certainly doesn't work in Michael Jackson's case. As far as I can tell, there isn't a rule somewhere that says one has to sustain his or her brilliance for X number of years to validate his or her talent! Michael Jackson's musical legacy was FIRMLY cemented long before his untimely death. His music speaks for itself and the fact that he hadn't had a hit record in 15+ years couldn't be less relevant! An artist's body of work doesn't become and less or more relevant based on the number of years that said artist plyed their craft!

What a great post.

ditto

[Carla777]

Yeah, MJ was very talented and that is what got him where he was. But I would also say that for the past 17 or 18 years not much of anything really talent wise came from MJ. Up until about 91' or 92' he was really good. After about that time, it was all the odd behavior with the boys and the surgeries that kept him in the spotlight most of the time up until his death.

I've given a whole lot of thought to Michael Jackson...his life, his legacy, and his music. Let me first state that I found Michael to be one of the oddest people I had ever seen in the music business. That said, he was beyond brilliant, as a musician. I don't know whether or not he molested children, and not sure anyone really does. As the father of a young son, I would certainly never condone such disgusting behavior. I've seen many interviews with Michael over the years and found him to be a very fascinating figure. How someone that shy (and he was as painfully shy as ANY celebrity in the history of the world) could get up in front of tens of thousands of people and perform the way he performed always stunned me. It seemed incongruous with a man who CLEARLY wasn't comfortable in his own skin (both literally and figureatively)! The thing that always struck me most about Michael was how childlike he was, even though he was a grown man. He always came across like he was a 10 year old boy who was soooooo out of touch with reality. I think a big part of Michael's torture was the fact that he never lived his life out of the public eye, and that simply cannot be an easy existence. The money, success, and accolades aside, I can't imagine ANYONE would EVER want to live a life where they could NEVER EVER EVER simply be a "normal" human being (or at least normal in Michael's world)! I also found that Michael came across as a very sympathetic figure in the interviews I saw of him over the years. I personally think his dad fucked the guy up for life, at a very young age, and he simply wasn't equipped with the tools to overcome his dad's shortcomings as a parent. Again, I am not condoning a single thing that Michael did that was illegal. I simply feel sorry for a guy who I have always viewed (and I believed it long before his shocking death two weeks ago) as a very tragic figure.

As for the point that Michael simply hadn't done much in the past 20 years...It's the same dopey argument people make with Perry. It doesn't work in Perry's case, and it certainly doesn't work in Michael Jackson's case. As far as I can tell, there isn't a rule somewhere that says one has to sustain his or her brilliance for X number of years to validate his or her talent! Michael Jackson's musical legacy was FIRMLY cemented long before his untimely death. His music speaks for itself and the fact that he hadn't had a hit record in 15+ years couldn't be less relevant! An artist's body of work doesn't become and less or more relevant based on the number of years that said artist plyed their craft!

What a great post.

ditto

Yeap agree too, great post

[kgdjpubs]

I've given a whole lot of thought to Michael Jackson...his life, his legacy, and his music. Let me first state that I found Michael to be one of the oddest people I had ever seen in the music business. That said, he was beyond brilliant, as a musician. I don't know whether or not he molested children, and not sure anyone really does. As the father of a young son, I would certainly never condone such disgusting behavior. I've seen many interviews with Michael over the years and found him to be a very fascinating figure. How someone that shy (and he was as painfully shy as ANY celebrity in the history of the world) could get up in front of tens of thousands of people and perform the way he performed always stunned me. It seemed incongruous with a man who CLEARLY wasn't comfortable in his own skin (both literally and figureatively)! The thing that always struck me most about Michael was how childlike he was, even though he was a grown man. He always came across like he was a 10 year old boy who was soooooo out of touch with reality. I think a big part of Michael's torture was the fact that he never lived his life out of the public eye, and that simply cannot be an easy existence. The money, success, and accolades aside, I can't imagine ANYONE would EVER want to live a life where they could NEVER EVER EVER simply be a "normal" human being (or at least normal in Michael's world)! I also found that Michael came across as a very sympathetic figure in the interviews I saw of him over the years. I personally think his dad fucked the guy up for life, at a very young age, and he simply wasn't equipped with the tools to overcome his dad's shortcomings as a parent. Again, I am not condoning a single thing that Michael did that was illegal. I simply feel sorry for a guy who I have always viewed (and I believed it long before his shocking death two weeks ago) as a very tragic figure.

Bingo. If you take someone's childhood away from them to the point that they never get to experience it, then thrust them into fame at a VERY young age to the point that they end up with that kind of success, you are going to get psychological damage. How much is dependent on the person.

Fame does weird things to some people--things you don't necessarily expect, and there is no way you can plan for them. Let me give you a personal example. In middle school at the end of 8th grade with only about a month remaining before summer break/graduation, we had this thing called Decades Day where you had to divide into groups and put on this short acting skit in front of everybody. My group ended up with the 50s. Now, it just so happened that the James Bond novels were written beginning in the 50s, and having an action/adventure skit was MUCH preferable to any other option that was out there, so that's what we did--with me getting cast in the pivotal role more by default than preference. Within what we had to work with, we pulled out all the stops--action, stunts, falls, paper guns, strangling bad guy, etc. Looking back on it, I'm amazed the teachers let us do it, even though I'm not really sure they knew just what we were doing, as we were literally rehearsing the final fight just before we went on. Either way, to put it mildly, it was a BIG success. It didn't take me long to realize how big of a success it was.

Now, I wasn't the most popular person, nor was I the least popular. People knew who I was, and that was about it. I was simply there. In 15 minutes, that all changed. All of a sudden, I became the #1 cool person in the class. People who didn't even know me wanted to be my best friend. People who hated me wanted to be my best friend. My real personality simply didn't even exist--I WAS James Bond to them. It was fun, but it was also very phony. It became impossible to tell who my real friends were, and who was just trying to be with the "cool" person. My personality simple ceased to exist. Most of them even started calling me James, Bond, 007 or some variation thereof. Now, when I say it was fun, it really was...for about 2-3 days. By the end of the week, I was getting tired of it. At 2 weeks, I was REALLY tired of it, and when a month had passed, and still, nothing had changed, I just wanted out of there and back to my own life. As chance happened, we were in the process of moving, so the end of that year was the last time I saw those people. Did it do any long-lasting psychological damage? Not really. I think I turned out at least somewhat sane. However, it was an eye-opening experience into a world most of us will never see.

This was the big thing though--even during the "worst" of it, as soon as I left school, things went back to normal. I could go somewhere with my friends, and simply be me and get away from it all. If you've never been in that situation, you have no idea what it feels like to just be accepted as yourself. Now, imagine it where you CAN'T get away because everybody knows you. Go to the mall, they stop you. Go to dinner, they stop you. Go to the movies, they stop you. Go to Walmart, they stop you. Now, deal with this from the time you are 8 years old--with an already dysfunctional childhood--for the next 40 years. Going out of the country doesn't help--they know you there also. The simple act of walking down the street attracts hoards of people to you. Ever wonder why celebrities like to disappear? Get to a certain level of fame, the only place you can disappear is behind gates where the public can't reach you. Of course, when the public can't find you, that only makes it worse. Talk to a lot of people who experience fame, and this phenomenon happens. What you and I call a "normal life" doesn't exist for them. Some handle it better than others.

I really don't like to judge people without having walked in their shoes, but I'm not sure I would handle big fame very well. I can tell you this though--if you are going to be around one group of people who will NOT judge you, that group is going to be children. Take someone who never had a childhood, and the situation is going to be magnified. Take someone who never had a childhood (which alone tends to cause massive emotional/developmental problems), has massive fame and basically lives like a hermit anyways, and probably feels the most comfortable around children who like to have fun and won't judge them, and you might have the slightest idea where Jackson was. From that perspective, some of the surgeries may simply be a realization that he was growing old, and an attempt to stop and/or slow the process.

Now, all this may or may not be true, and the people who know certainly aren't talking about his personal life--and I doubt they ever will. All you hear are stories from people who worked with him on a professional level, and from that standpoint, it appears he was a musical genius--no real surprise there.

All I can say is this, it's very likely that at some point, Michael Jackson (talent aside) will probably become the poster child for psychologists as to what happens when you don't allow someone to have a normal childhood and simultaneously thrust someone into massive fame at a very young age. The results are not always pretty.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Yeah, MJ was very talented and that is what got him where he was. But I would also say that for the past 17 or 18 years not much of anything really talent wise came from MJ. Up until about 91' or 92' he was really good. After about that time, it was all the odd behavior with the boys and the surgeries that kept him in the spotlight most of the time up until his death.

I've given a whole lot of thought to Michael Jackson...his life, his legacy, and his music. Let me first state that I found Michael to be one of the oddest people I had ever seen in the music business. That said, he was beyond brilliant, as a musician. I don't know whether or not he molested children, and not sure anyone really does. As the father of a young son, I would certainly never condone such disgusting behavior. I've seen many interviews with Michael over the years and found him to be a very fascinating figure. How someone that shy (and he was as painfully shy as ANY celebrity in the history of the world) could get up in front of tens of thousands of people and perform the way he performed always stunned me. It seemed incongruous with a man who CLEARLY wasn't comfortable in his own skin (both literally and figureatively)! The thing that always struck me most about Michael was how childlike he was, even though he was a grown man. He always came across like he was a 10 year old boy who was soooooo out of touch with reality. I think a big part of Michael's torture was the fact that he never lived his life out of the public eye, and that simply cannot be an easy existence. The money, success, and accolades aside, I can't imagine ANYONE would EVER want to live a life where they could NEVER EVER EVER simply be a "normal" human being (or at least normal in Michael's world)! I also found that Michael came across as a very sympathetic figure in the interviews I saw of him over the years. I personally think his dad fucked the guy up for life, at a very young age, and he simply wasn't equipped with the tools to overcome his dad's shortcomings as a parent. Again, I am not condoning a single thing that Michael did that was illegal. I simply feel sorry for a guy who I have always viewed (and I believed it long before his shocking death two weeks ago) as a very tragic figure.

As for the point that Michael simply hadn't done much in the past 20 years...It's the same dopey argument people make with Perry. It doesn't work in Perry's case, and it certainly doesn't work in Michael Jackson's case. As far as I can tell, there isn't a rule somewhere that says one has to sustain his or her brilliance for X number of years to validate his or her talent! Michael Jackson's musical legacy was FIRMLY cemented long before his untimely death. His music speaks for itself and the fact that he hadn't had a hit record in 15+ years couldn't be less relevant! An artist's body of work doesn't become and less or more relevant based on the number of years that said artist plyed their craft!

What a great post.

I also agree that it is a very good and valid post.

About MJ going alittle bit, or a lot wierd, it happens to many people. I've run into a chick recently who I knew in grade school and now she's psycho, says she can smell the germs on her glasses and has to constantly clean them off with cleaner every few minutes. I remember how I thought she was so cute in school and thought that some day she would be a wonderful mother and stuff like that. I just trouble myself wondering what happened to that cute chick who was so fun to be with. If she had a billion dollars like MJ did, who knows what type of Neverland ranch she would have built and how she would have spent her life. Tons of people are just like MJ, except they don't have the money to actually go through and tailor something to fit their mentality and agenda.

I picked up somewhere either a MJ article or interview where he comments that he loves to be around children so much because they are honest and truthful, or words to that effect. That's interesting in the sense that, how could these honest and truthful children turn around and accuse him of molesting them. Kids aren't like adults and they don't betray for money. I think back to my own childhood and if I had the opportunity to hang out with my hero and then my parents tried to say I was molested, I would have told the truth because that's my hero. So my big question is, how could kids, and kids that MJ himself say are truthful and honest, how could they go against their hero and help their parents pull a bullshit lawsuit?

[StevePerryHair]

Why would a kid listen to a parent? For the same reason Michael Jackson put up with his ass of a father for all those years. Kids tend to do what their parents want, especially if they are in fear. You can't know the kinds of things that boys father was saying to him to control him. Parents have a lot of influence over their children, especially controlling or abusive parents.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Why would a kid listen to a parent? For the same reason Michael Jackson put up with his ass of a father for all those years. Kids tend to do what their parents want, especially if they are in fear. You can't know the kinds of things that boys father was saying to him to control him. Parents have a lot of influence over their children, especially controlling or abusive parents.

I'm sure the authorities know this and so they have a protocol in place when dealing with parents coming in with their kids saying such and such went on with "little Johnny" especially when it comes to felony accusations.

[Jana]

Why would a kid listen to a parent? For the same reason Michael Jackson put up with his ass of a father for all those years. Kids tend to do what their parents want, especially if they are in fear. You can't know the kinds of things that boys father was saying to him to control him. Parents have a lot of influence over their children, especially controlling or abusive parents.

I'm sure the authorities know this and so they have a protocol in place when dealing with parents coming in with their kids saying such and such went on with "little Johnny" especially when it comes to felony accusations.

I'm not addressing whether Michael did or didn't do inappropriate things with children. But there have been many, many, many instances where overzealous prosecutors have gone after and convicted innocent people, and their court-appointed psychologists or detectives put things in children's minds and it became a witchhunt.

[bluejeangirl76]

I picked up somewhere either a MJ article or interview where he comments that he loves to be around children so much because they are honest and truthful, or words to that effect. That's interesting in the sense that, how could these honest and truthful children turn around and accuse him of molesting them. Kids aren't like adults and they don't betray for money. I think back to my own childhood and if I had the opportunity to hang out with my hero and then my parents tried to say I was molested, I would have told the truth because that's my hero. So my big question is, how could kids, and kids that MJ himself say are truthful and honest, how could they go against their hero and help their parents pull a bullshit lawsuit?

Not all children are going to be able to be that strong, especially, as Lynn said, when the parents are abusive and controlling. At no time did I ever believe that the 1993 story was anything other than total bullshit. That kid was pushed into it by his father, who cared more about a giant payoff than about his son.

[artist4perry]

Yeah, MJ was very talented and that is what got him where he was. But I would also say that for the past 17 or 18 years not much of anything really talent wise came from MJ. Up until about 91' or 92' he was really good. After about that time, it was all the odd behavior with the boys and the surgeries that kept him in the spotlight most of the time up until his death.

I've given a whole lot of thought to Michael Jackson...his life, his legacy, and his music. Let me first state that I found Michael to be one of the oddest people I had ever seen in the music business. That said, he was beyond brilliant, as a musician. I don't know whether or not he molested children, and not sure anyone really does. As the father of a young son, I would certainly never condone such disgusting behavior. I've seen many interviews with Michael over the years and found him to be a very fascinating figure. How someone that shy (and he was as painfully shy as ANY celebrity in the history of the world) could get up in front of tens of thousands of people and perform the way he performed always stunned me. It seemed incongruous with a man who CLEARLY wasn't comfortable in his own skin (both literally and figureatively)! The thing that always struck me most about Michael was how childlike he was, even though he was a grown man. He always came across like he was a 10 year old boy who was soooooo out of touch with reality. I think a big part of Michael's torture was the fact that he never lived his life out of the public eye, and that simply cannot be an easy existence. The money, success, and accolades aside, I can't imagine ANYONE would EVER want to live a life where they could NEVER EVER EVER simply be a "normal" human being (or at least normal in Michael's world)! I also found that Michael came across as a very sympathetic figure in the interviews I saw of him over the years. I personally think his dad fucked the guy up for life, at a very young age, and he simply wasn't equipped with the tools to overcome his dad's shortcomings as a parent. Again, I am not condoning a single thing that Michael did that was illegal. I simply feel sorry for a guy who I have always viewed (and I believed it long before his shocking death two weeks ago) as a very tragic figure.

As for the point that Michael simply hadn't done much in the past 20 years...It's the same dopey argument people make with Perry. It doesn't work in Perry's case, and it certainly doesn't work in Michael Jackson's case. As far as I can tell, there isn't a rule somewhere that says one has to sustain his or her brilliance for X number of years to validate his or her talent! Michael Jackson's musical legacy was FIRMLY cemented long before his untimely death. His music speaks for itself and the fact that he hadn't had a hit record in 15+ years couldn't be less relevant! An artist's body of work doesn't become and less or more relevant based on the number of years that said artist plyed their craft!

What a great post.

John that was a great post. As much as I have to say he was a brilliant artist, he was a very sad figure. I agree that his father messed him up, and in his death, now seems to be concerned about his buisness a little too much. He lived a sad and tradgic life. But I fear we put him on a pedistal still in death, as if he was perfectly fine, with no personal issues. He had plenty, and I think he was quite unhappy. Fame does not buy happinenss, sucess is not measured in gold records. Be grateful for every real friend you have, for each loved one you trust, for the good parents some of us were blessed with. I morn a little boy, who was caught up in a world that caused him so much pain. He seemed consumed in recapturing a childhood, he can never regain.

[JasonD]

I picked up somewhere either a MJ article or interview where he comments that he loves to be around children so much because they are honest and truthful, or words to that effect. That's interesting in the sense that, how could these honest and truthful children turn around and accuse him of molesting them. Kids aren't like adults and they don't betray for money. I think back to my own childhood and if I had the opportunity to hang out with my hero and then my parents tried to say I was molested, I would have told the truth because that's my hero. So my big question is, how could kids, and kids that MJ himself say are truthful and honest, how could they go against their hero and help their parents pull a bullshit lawsuit?

Not all children are going to be able to be that strong, especially, as Lynn said, when the parents are abusive and controlling. At no time did I ever believe that the 1993 story was anything other than total bullshit. That kid was pushed into it by his father, who cared more about a giant payoff than about his son.

+1
Let's not forget how quickly Patty Hearst was able to be persuaded into participating in a bank robbery with her SLA kidnappers & she wasn't even a child in that event.

[Rhiannon]

I picked up somewhere either a MJ article or interview where he comments that he loves to be around children so much because they are honest and truthful, or words to that effect. That's interesting in the sense that, how could these honest and truthful children turn around and accuse him of molesting them. Kids aren't like adults and they don't betray for money. I think back to my own childhood and if I had the opportunity to hang out with my hero and then my parents tried to say I was molested, I would have told the truth because that's my hero. So my big question is, how could kids, and kids that MJ himself say are truthful and honest, how could they go against their hero and help their parents pull a bullshit lawsuit?

Not all children are going to be able to be that strong, especially, as Lynn said, when the parents are abusive and controlling. At no time did I ever believe that the 1993 story was anything other than total bullshit. That kid was pushed into it by his father, who cared more about a giant payoff than about his son.

YES.
Does anybody else here realize that Jordan Chandler took his pop, Evan, to court about three years ago for beating the snot out of him?
( http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209470,00.html )

Hmm, gee.

[The Sushi Hunter]

I picked up somewhere either a MJ article or interview where he comments that he loves to be around children so much because they are honest and truthful, or words to that effect. That's interesting in the sense that, how could these honest and truthful children turn around and accuse him of molesting them. Kids aren't like adults and they don't betray for money. I think back to my own childhood and if I had the opportunity to hang out with my hero and then my parents tried to say I was molested, I would have told the truth because that's my hero. So my big question is, how could kids, and kids that MJ himself say are truthful and honest, how could they go against their hero and help their parents pull a bullshit lawsuit?

Not all children are going to be able to be that strong, especially, as Lynn said, when the parents are abusive and controlling. At no time did I ever believe that the 1993 story was anything other than total bullshit. That kid was pushed into it by his father, who cared more about a giant payoff than about his son.

+1
Let's not forget how quickly Patty Hearst was able to be persuaded into participating in a bank robbery with her SLA kidnappers & she wasn't even a child in that event.

That was her way of undoing all the shit she got herself into. I don't believe for a second Hearst partook against her will.

[The Sushi Hunter]

I picked up somewhere either a MJ article or interview where he comments that he loves to be around children so much because they are honest and truthful, or words to that effect. That's interesting in the sense that, how could these honest and truthful children turn around and accuse him of molesting them. Kids aren't like adults and they don't betray for money. I think back to my own childhood and if I had the opportunity to hang out with my hero and then my parents tried to say I was molested, I would have told the truth because that's my hero. So my big question is, how could kids, and kids that MJ himself say are truthful and honest, how could they go against their hero and help their parents pull a bullshit lawsuit?

Not all children are going to be able to be that strong, especially, as Lynn said, when the parents are abusive and controlling. At no time did I ever believe that the 1993 story was anything other than total bullshit. That kid was pushed into it by his father, who cared more about a giant payoff than about his son.

YES.
Does anybody else here realize that Jordan Chandler took his pop, Evan, to court about three years ago for beating the snot out of him?
( http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209470,00.html )

Hmm, gee.

If so, did the kid also bring up the fact that his "pop" put him up to any unjust accusations in the past? If no, why not, that would have been the "golden" opportunity.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Somewhere on this site I read recently where there was a question brought up as to why the parents would have settled and not pursued the molestation charges through the entire court process if they were not after money. You have to really know the entire system to understand why they chose to settle. Attorneys love to settle, in fact they rather settle then to go through the entire process. Attorney's see it as "easy money" cause they didn't have to work for months and years on the case to get something out of it. And a damn good attorney gets 45 percent of the settlement amount. So in the case of this 22 Million settlement, the attorney or firm representing the plaintiff in this matter racked in roughly 10 million dollars from this.

Both the attorney and plaintiff avoided much of all of the risks involved when they settled. The attorney's risk was putting in months, or years into this case and maybe losing in court when there were many other cases in other matters that he had a better chance at winning.

The plaintiff had the greater risks at stake. Use this forum as the model and take a sample of the likelihood that MJ would have not been convicted by the jury. If the jury pool was selected out of everyone posting on this forum, the greater majority would not find the defendant guilty. Remember, it's not whether someone is innocent or guilty, it's only about what the jury thinks. The OJ trial is a text book example of that.

So the plaintiff put up thousands of dollars for their attorney and court costs right off the bat. If this would go to trial, it would have gone on for years and years and years, which they would have had to keep paying into the attorney and continued court costs until it ended.

Now in the event that MJ was found guilty, which I feel would have been highly unlikely, his attorney(s) would have challenged the verdict and that could have gone on for years and years, while the plaintiff would continue to have to continue paying their attorney and court costs.

Now in the event that MJ was found completely innocent of these charges, there was a chance that MJ would turn around and sue the plaintiff in the molestation trail for his out of pocket expenses such as his attorney and court costs, plus any of his damages that he received from the first trial, which probably would have been upward into the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

The attorny or firm representing the plaintiff knows all the risks involved and you can bet your ass they made sure that the plaintiff was fully aware of these very high stakes. And again, attorney's love to settle, cause they eliminate all the risk and take home 45 percent of the settlement.

In the end, the plaintiff was smart to settle. They got the word out what MJ did (even though it is really left up to who wants to believe and not believe), they got some money that they can use to get their child some much needed therapy and a big part of this therapy is having some of the money put asside for the child's formal education in the future.

[Rhiannon]

I picked up somewhere either a MJ article or interview where he comments that he loves to be around children so much because they are honest and truthful, or words to that effect. That's interesting in the sense that, how could these honest and truthful children turn around and accuse him of molesting them. Kids aren't like adults and they don't betray for money. I think back to my own childhood and if I had the opportunity to hang out with my hero and then my parents tried to say I was molested, I would have told the truth because that's my hero. So my big question is, how could kids, and kids that MJ himself say are truthful and honest, how could they go against their hero and help their parents pull a bullshit lawsuit?

Not all children are going to be able to be that strong, especially, as Lynn said, when the parents are abusive and controlling. At no time did I ever believe that the 1993 story was anything other than total bullshit. That kid was pushed into it by his father, who cared more about a giant payoff than about his son.

YES.
Does anybody else here realize that Jordan Chandler took his pop, Evan, to court about three years ago for beating the snot out of him?
( http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209470,00.html )

Hmm, gee.

If so, did the kid also bring up the fact that his "pop" put him up to any unjust accusations in the past? If no, why not, that would have been the "golden" opportunity.

And risk being charged with perjury and possible jail time? Run a chance of being countersued for damages? Or at least having to pay back the sum of the settlement. Not likely.

[mikemarrs]

michael had a great body of work from 1979-1991 and of course a decade worth before then groupwise and solo.his solo stuff from those twelve years were his peak.i think between those years he was untouchable which was basically the whole eighties decade.he had four blockbuster smash albums off the wall,thriller,bad and dangerous that were his absolute top notch material.after 1992 and dangerous which was his last true smash he really hasn't done much but he did more in those twelve years alone than most musicians do in decades.he had a couple more albums including one with all new material in 2001 but by then several things factored in where he wasn't going to have the huge sales he once had.i do get irritated lately seeing people i know personally who talked bad about him suddenly playing his albums when a short while back they wouldn't be caught listening to anything by michael jackson.i think in time michael will be right there with elvis as the best of all time.

[bluejeangirl76]

In the end, the plaintiff was smart to settle. They got the word out what MJ did (even though it is really left up to who wants to believe and not believe), they got some money that they can use to get their child some much needed therapy and a big part of this therapy is having some of the money put asside for the child's formal education in the future.

"A falling out between Jordy and Evan Chandler of this serious a nature immediately reveals a couple of things: that at the age of 25 Jordy was still living with his father, and that they had settled into a luxury apartment in New Jersey with panoramic views of Manhattan.

Prior to this they had owned a beach house in Westhampton, New York, and had had an apartment in New York. Public records show, however, that Jordy sold the beach house for $2.9 million in 2003."

And this is housing alone. I wonder what kind of car daddy was driving, and what kind he got Jordy for his 16th. It it my belief that not one red cent of that money went to therapy.

[Behshad]

michael had a great body .

you're sick

[The Sushi Hunter]

Too bad MJ's Neverland Ranch wasn't more like this one, now this would have been cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zail7Gdqro

[Barb]

I don't know how he was able to function.


Michael Jackson's Arms Marred by Track Marks Consistent with Potent Sedative Use

Both of pop superstar Michael Jackson's arms were scarred with track marks, investigators probing his death say, and the marks are consistent with the finding of the potent sedative propofol (trade name Diprivan) in his home -- a drug that is increasingly at the center of their probe into what caused Jackson's death, ABC News has learned.

According to sources involved in the death investigation, several Hollywood and Beverly Hills doctors are now part of the investigation.

The probe is being led by the Los Angeles Police Department in cooperation with the Drug Enforcement Administration. The California Department of Justice has offered technical support in terms of its powerful searchable data base of patient information that includes drugs, doses, the doctors that administered them and the patients that received them.

Prescription medications were found inside Jackson 's $100,000 per month rental home that included ones in his name and ones in other names, including ones that appeared to investigators to be aliases. The medications had been prescribed by multiple doctors.

Jackson was addicted to the analgesic Demerol and to Oxycontin, investigators have told ABC News, and took the drugs daily. Medical experts have reported propofol "blocks out the world."

Those addicted to it routinely report that their abuse began with using the drug to treat insomnia -- an ongoing problem for Jackson.

Medical experts point out that the abuse of Demerol could have set the stage for cardiac arrest, by increasing Jackson 's risk.

One pharmacologist blogged about Propofol this week and explained in his science blog how Demerol abuse could have caused cardiac problems and could have increased his risk for heart rhythm disturbances from the Propofol: "As I wrote last week in my blog post on Demerol ® (meperidine), Jackson's reported long-term use of this analgesic for back pain may have already primed him for cardiac problems due to the accumulation of a toxic metabolite, normeperidine," Dr. David Kroll said. "However, most relevant to the Jackson case is that propofol can cause cardiac tachyarrhythmias (rhythmic disturbances at high heart rate), especially in people predisposed to cardiac problems."
Medical experts contacted by the ABC News Medical Unit said that the list of 20 drugs reportedly found in Jackson's rented home was "jaw-dropping" and "amazing."

"That list is enough to put down a swarm of zombies," said Richard Bradley, Chief, Division of EMS and Disaster Medicine at the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston.

"The list …would be typical for an anesthesia cart in an operating room or what you might find in a recovery room, ICU, ED, etc.. Definitely not what you'd expect to find in a home," said Joseph Ornato, Chair of the Department of Medicine at Virginia Commonwealth University.

ABC News has reported on a number of those drugs including Demerol and Oxycontin, which the experts note are "cousins to morphine."

All of the following drugs reportedly found in Jackson's home are in that same category of opioid narcotics found in Jackson's home: methadone, Fentanyl, Percocet, Dilaudid and Vicodin. Generally prescribed as painkillers, the drugs are similar in mechanism -- taking a combination of these medications is like overdosing on one drug alone.

"Any of these can kill," said Marcel Casavant, Chief of Pharmacology/Toxicology at Ohio State. "Usually [they kill] by stopping breathing and lowering blood pressure, so the heart and the brain don't get oxygen."

The stash of drugs raises ethical questions about any physician or physicians involved in prescribing and administering them.

"There is a very high standard for appropriate use of narcotics and Mr. Jackson's doctors are required to follow that standard. If not, then the care they provided is negligent," said Lloyd Saberski, Medical Director, Advanced Diagnostic Pain Treatment Centers at Yale University.

Medical experts consulted by ABC News cautioned that the track marks could not by themselves conclusively suggest Jackson abused propofol.

"Given the list of medications that were reported to be found [in Jackson's home], it may be difficult to qualify these as purely propofol-induced track marks," said Lina Matta, Clinical Pharmacy Practice Manager at Brigham and Women's Hospital.

Those contacted said that while the track marks may be attributable to propofol, it's impossible to know that just from the marks themselves. They could have come from abuse of other drugs.

The Sun has reported there were at least 20 drugs found in Jackson's home, and many of these can be injected, including Methadone, Fentanyl, Demerol, Versed, and Lidocaine.

Propofol is a serious general anesthetic that should only be administered by a trained professional because it can cause the patient to stop breathing, even when used correctly, according to medical experts.

"Propofol at doses used in operating rooms causes the cessation of breathing in 8-30 plus percent of patients at the initiation of anesthesia," said Joseph Tobin, Chairman of the Department of Anesthesiology at Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center.

Hospitals like it because it is short-acting. If a patient is having a brief procedure, they do not have to be knocked out for a long period of time. Recovery is quicker. But while the patient is under propofol, he or she must be continually monitored.

"Propofol is mind boggling that [Jackson] would have that in the home," said Chris Cannon, a cardiologist at Brigham and Women's Hospital. "It is used for short term anesthesia for procedures... For this however, we have an anesthesiologist (actually 2) at the bedside monitoring [heart rate, blood pressure] breathing, airway competency, careful dose monitoring etc"

Cindy Kuhn, Professor of Pharmacology and Cancer Biology at Duke University Medical Center further explains: "The difference between a dose that is sedating and one that can be lethal is very small - you would want to have the ability to support breathing (with a respirator for example) in case of overdose- that is why it would not be used outside of a hospital. This drug could be lethal on its own - it would slow breathing to the point that it stopped…"

Indeed, just last year, researchers published the first known report of a murder due to propofol. A 24-year old nurse in Gainesville, Florida, was killed by an overdose of propofol. A male nurse acquaintance was convicted of the crime.

"Propofol has no place in a household," agreed Lloyd Saberski, Medical Director at the Advanced Diagnostic Pain Treatment Centers at Yale University. "This alone is a deviation and many laws were likely violated just to get the Propofol there."




http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Micha ... 880&page=1

[The Sushi Hunter]

Well you know....I guess it could have been alot worse. He could have been found with a rope tied around his genitals. That definitely wouldn't have looked good for him, especially because of all the past accusations and whatnot.

[Barb]

Here ya go Barb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rQZ-L8K ... r_embedded

Wow.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Ok, I won't add another post ABOUT MJ on a MJ thread after this one. Sorry if I went overboard on this. I just love to analyze most things in life is all. Actually I'm sometimes obsessed with analyzing things.

With that said, the last thing I will add to this MJ discussion is, what gets me ruffled the most about it in some aspects is the very fact that for many years previously in MJ life, he was a totally normal individual. In the 80's he even went out and was seen at a public function with Brook Sheilds. I could buy into all this MJ defense had he simply been this way all of his entire life. But he wasn't at all that way at one time. Throughout the 70's and much of the 80's, he was just an average guy. Back during the Thriller timeframe, I thought the dude was a total pussy hound like Prince.

But something drastic took place sometime in the early 90's, perhaps 91' I'm guessing that changed all of this. That's about the time when I noticed MJ taking on a completely different behavior. It seems MJ was all gaga goo goo over Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone like I was with Tia Carrere in Wayne's World. And if they had near life sized dolls of Tia, I'd a been sleeping with one too! She was so hot in that movie, had my in-laws not been watching the movie with me in the living room, I'd a probably put that vid on pause and dry humped the tv set, that's how fine I thought she was in that movie.

So that's my bottom line in this entire MJ ordeal. Had there not been a time when MJ was completely normal which was in the 70's and 80's, I would have believed that yeah, the dude suffers from some type of childhood trama. But the fact is, he didn't start taking on that behavior until about 90', which is coincidentally about the same time Home Alone with Culkin came out.

This is completely all I will have to say about it...period.

[L~L~L]

Read this in some blog and I must say it is well put!

How much is a child's innocence worth?

Some may say "an innocent man doesn't pay $20 million"

well to that I say---

What kind of parents put a price tag on their child's innocence?

What kind of parents settle for ANYTHING LESS THAN JUSTICE?

[SteveForever]

Here ya go Barb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rQZ-L8K ... r_embedded

Wow.

He must have liked to see how close to death he could get, must have been a release....

[Rhiannon]

Read this in some blog and I must say it is well put!

How much is a child's innocence worth?

Some may say "an innocent man doesn't pay $20 million"

well to that I say---

What kind of parents put a price tag on their child's innocence?

What kind of parents settle for ANYTHING LESS THAN JUSTICE?

Recommended reading: "The Michael Jackson Conspiracy" by Aphrodite Jones.

[JeremyP]

Definitely getting this. I've seen a lot of youtube vids with her and Thomas Mesereau. From the reviews I've read she seems to provide an unbiased report of the case including trial transcripts.

It's interesting to note that she was actually convinced, as the majority of America was, of Michael's guilt until she actually started sitting in on the trial and witnessing the case brought against him.

[bluejeangirl76]

This is my tribute to Mike in the best way I know how - humor.

I made him a LOLcat...er... a LOLMike.