Kevin Chalfant singing "Separate Ways" live, 2009!

[SherriBerry]

I think many are overestimating the possible outcome of "What Might Have Been" with the Rolie/Chalfant lineup. Almost all of the radio-friendly hits that came out during the Rolie years that TNC mentioned are Perry/Schon songs, with the exception of WITS (which has no writing credit for Rolie) and Feeling That Way, which is a Perry/Rolie/Dunbar song.

Gregg Rolie is obviously a very talented musician and vocalist, but I have his 1985 release 'Gregg Rolie' and in terms of songwriting, well, there are no hits there. He is doing very well with the Santana/Abraxas Pool sound and I'm very disappointed that he is going to be at the Nakusp Music Festival on July 19 (I bought my ticket last January) and I cannot go! He would have been great back in Journey, but I'm not sure what he would have added in terms of moving their sound forward or that he would have stayed with their heavy touring. Kevin Chalfant is a talented vocalist, but he is another singer who sounds like SP. 'Megaforce' was a very long time ago, so I'm curious to know what he would have added to the overall songwriting.

At the time, no one in their right mind would have given up a chance to have Steve Perry back in Journey - the label wanted it, the band obviously wanted it, and the fans especially wanted it. 'Trial By Fire' is a beautiful album, so they were on the right track. And for whatever reason, Neal chose not to hire KC in 1998 when they hired Steve Augeri and made the same decision in 2007 when they considered Jeremey and then Arnel. No one could have predicted SP's hip surgery (not wanting to tour, well, HH did predict that) or predicted SA's vocal problems or what would have become of adding Rolie/Chalfant. <---They aren't hitmakers on their own, nor was Rolie the catalyst for their [Journey's] success in 1978. Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

[Jeremey]

I think many are overestimating the possible outcome of "What Might Have Been" with the Rolie/Chalfant lineup. Almost all of the radio-friendly hits that came out during the Rolie years that TNC mentioned are Perry/Schon songs, with the exception of WITS (which has no writing credit for Rolie) and Feeling That Way, which is a Perry/Rolie/Dunbar song.

Gregg Rolie is obviously a very talented musician and vocalist, but I have his 1985 release 'Gregg Rolie' and in terms of songwriting, well, there are no hits there. He is doing very well with the Santana/Abraxas Pool sound and I'm very disappointed that he is going to be at the Nakusp Music Festival on July 19 (I bought my ticket last January) and I cannot go! He would have been great back in Journey, but I'm not sure what he would have added in terms of moving their sound forward or that he would have stayed with their heavy touring. Kevin Chalfant is a talented vocalist, but he is another singer who sounds like SP. 'Megaforce' was a very long time ago, so I'm curious to know what he would have added to the overall songwriting.

At the time, no one in their right mind would have given up a chance to have Steve Perry back in Journey - the label wanted it, the band obviously wanted it, and the fans especially wanted it. 'Trial By Fire' is a beautiful album, so they were on the right track. And for whatever reason, Neal chose not to hire KC in 1998 when they hired Steve Augeri and made the same decision in 2007 when they considered Jeremey and then Arnel. No one could have predicted SP's hip surgery (not wanting to tour, well, HH did predict that) or predicted SA's vocal problems or what would have become of adding Rolie/Chalfant. They aren't hitmakers on their own, nor was Rolie the catalyst for their success in 1978. Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

Well, I would have to agree with a lot of your post. Being a singer and having maybe a slightly different perspective, I do have to wonder what those who think Journey missed a great opportunity by KC not being the front man now are actually missing out on. Do you feel that Journey with Chalfant at the helm would currently be more successful than Journey with Arnel at the helm? I fail to see what the great missed opportunity is...Honestly, with KC and Rolie....And while Kevin has gone on the record to say he had better songs stowed away in his sock drawer than the songs that ended up on Trial By Fire, I am maybe a bit biased but I am glad to have had Perry on that release.

[youkeepmewaiting]

I think many are overestimating the possible outcome of "What Might Have Been" with the Rolie/Chalfant lineup. Almost all of the radio-friendly hits that came out during the Rolie years that TNC mentioned are Perry/Schon songs, with the exception of WITS (which has no writing credit for Rolie) and Feeling That Way, which is a Perry/Rolie/Dunbar song.

Gregg Rolie is obviously a very talented musician and vocalist, but I have his 1985 release 'Gregg Rolie' and in terms of songwriting, well, there are no hits there. He is doing very well with the Santana/Abraxas Pool sound and I'm very disappointed that he is going to be at the Nakusp Music Festival on July 19 (I bought my ticket last January) and I cannot go! He would have been great back in Journey, but I'm not sure what he would have added in terms of moving their sound forward or that he would have stayed with their heavy touring. Kevin Chalfant is a talented vocalist, but he is another singer who sounds like SP. 'Megaforce' was a very long time ago, so I'm curious to know what he would have added to the overall songwriting.

At the time, no one in their right mind would have given up a chance to have Steve Perry back in Journey - the label wanted it, the band obviously wanted it, and the fans especially wanted it. 'Trial By Fire' is a beautiful album, so they were on the right track. And for whatever reason, Neal chose not to hire KC in 1998 when they hired Steve Augeri and made the same decision in 2007 when they considered Jeremey and then Arnel. No one could have predicted SP's hip surgery (not wanting to tour, well, HH did predict that) or predicted SA's vocal problems or what would have become of adding Rolie/Chalfant. They aren't hitmakers on their own, nor was Rolie the catalyst for their success in 1978. Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

Well, I would have to agree with a lot of your post. Being a singer and having maybe a slightly different perspective, I do have to wonder what those who think Journey missed a great opportunity by KC not being the front man now are actually missing out on. Do you feel that Journey with Chalfant at the helm would currently be more successful than Journey with Arnel at the helm? I fail to see what the great missed opportunity is...Honestly, with KC and Rolie....And while Kevin has gone on the record to say he had better songs stowed away in his sock drawer than the songs that ended up on Trial By Fire, I am maybe a bit biased but I am glad to have had Perry on that release.

+1

I love TBF , it was worth sacrificing GR and KC

[portland]

I think many are overestimating the possible outcome of "What Might Have Been" with the Rolie/Chalfant lineup. Almost all of the radio-friendly hits that came out during the Rolie years that TNC mentioned are Perry/Schon songs, with the exception of WITS (which has no writing credit for Rolie) and Feeling That Way, which is a Perry/Rolie/Dunbar song.

Gregg Rolie is obviously a very talented musician and vocalist, but I have his 1985 release 'Gregg Rolie' and in terms of songwriting, well, there are no hits there. He is doing very well with the Santana/Abraxas Pool sound and I'm very disappointed that he is going to be at the Nakusp Music Festival on July 19 (I bought my ticket last January) and I cannot go! He would have been great back in Journey, but I'm not sure what he would have added in terms of moving their sound forward or that he would have stayed with their heavy touring. Kevin Chalfant is a talented vocalist, but he is another singer who sounds like SP. 'Megaforce' was a very long time ago, so I'm curious to know what he would have added to the overall songwriting.

At the time, no one in their right mind would have given up a chance to have Steve Perry back in Journey - the label wanted it, the band obviously wanted it, and the fans especially wanted it. 'Trial By Fire' is a beautiful album, so they were on the right track. And for whatever reason, Neal chose not to hire KC in 1998 when they hired Steve Augeri and made the same decision in 2007 when they considered Jeremey and then Arnel. No one could have predicted SP's hip surgery (not wanting to tour, well, HH did predict that) or predicted SA's vocal problems or what would have become of adding Rolie/Chalfant. They aren't hitmakers on their own, nor was Rolie the catalyst for their success in 1978. Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

Well, I would have to agree with a lot of your post. Being a singer and having maybe a slightly different perspective, I do have to wonder what those who think Journey missed a great opportunity by KC not being the front man now are actually missing out on. Do you feel that Journey with Chalfant at the helm would currently be more successful than Journey with Arnel at the helm? I fail to see what the great missed opportunity is...Honestly, with KC and Rolie....And while Kevin has gone on the record to say he had better songs stowed away in his sock drawer than the songs that ended up on Trial By Fire, I am maybe a bit biased but I am glad to have had Perry on that release.

+1

I love TBF , it was worth sacrificing GR and KC

+10000000 I love TBF too and it was worth it to have him back for one more!!

[Babyblue]

Just thought I'd post this after I stumbled on it. He really sounds AMAZING (and so does the backing band!), but unfortunately this clip is barely listenable. The quality is shitty as hell! You can still hear enough though to tell that he kicked ASS on it. He did skate around the highest note of the song, but considering his age...I'll excuse him for it.

Here it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfNTzs7F ... re=related

I'm now going on a hunt to see if I can find a better quality recording. Whoever recorded that needs their ass kicked!

He sounds awesome and what a great head of hair.

Jim, I gotta say that it's such a relief to see someone spell "Separate" correctly.

That does sould good.As far as Jim s spelling I taught him good

[The_Noble_Cause]

Almost all of the radio-friendly hits that came out during the Rolie years that TNC mentioned are Perry/Schon songs, with the exception of WITS (which has no writing credit for Rolie) and Feeling That Way, which is a Perry/Rolie/Dunbar song.

Valid point.
But Cain would still have been in the group.
Throw in Schon and Chalfant, and who knows what they would've came up with.

At the time, no one in their right mind would have given up a chance to have Steve Perry back in Journey - the label wanted it, the band obviously wanted it, and the fans especially wanted it.

Herbie Herbert wanted Perry out even earlier than ROR.
Success comes with taking risks.
Once again, they should've listened to the big man.

'Trial By Fire' is a beautiful album, so they were on the right track.

On the right track to do what?
Their advance by Sony went up in smoke, there was no tour, the only benefit was to further cement Perry as Journey, and Journey as Perry, in the minds of millions.
Additionally, thanks to the brief 90s reunion album, audiences have the impression that Journey threw Perry out.
Instead of the reality of Neal and Jon waiting since the 80's to get back on tour.

No one could have predicted SP's hip surgery (not wanting to tour, well, HH did predict that) or predicted SA's vocal problems or what would have become of adding Rolie/Chalfant.

Not to be repetitious, but Herbie seems to have had the foresight of all these things.
As for SA's vocal problems, I had my doubts about him handling the catalog just from listening to his live Tyketto boots back in the day.
As Augeri himself said, he was a "scraper" not some operatic tenor.

They aren't hitmakers on their own...

Not sure if you're aware of this, but the band has released three albums without Perry since 2001...

Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

I don't see how you can put down the songwriting potential of Chalfant and Rolie, who have solid rock street cred, while holding up the Augeri and Arnel lineups as models of success.
Just what exactly did they contribute to the process again?

[Onestepper]

They aren't hitmakers on their own...

Not sure if you're aware of this, but the band has released three albums without Perry since 2001...

She said hit makers. None of those albums produced anything close to a hit.

Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

I don't see how you can put down the songwriting potential of Chalfant and Rolie, who have solid rock street cred, while holding up the Augeri and Arnel lineups as models of success.
Just what exactly did they contribute to the process again?

Chalfant and Rolie have more hits and radio play without Journey, than Augeri and Arnel do with them.

[The_Noble_Cause]

She said hit makers. None of those albums produced anything close to a hit.

A few Revelation singles charted...but that's beyond the point.
It seems in one breath, SherriBerry is saying that the band cannot exist with someone stepping in for Perry, and in the next, she is giving the official blessing to Arnel and Augeri.
I don't quite get it.

[Jeremey]

Almost all of the radio-friendly hits that came out during the Rolie years that TNC mentioned are Perry/Schon songs, with the exception of WITS (which has no writing credit for Rolie) and Feeling That Way, which is a Perry/Rolie/Dunbar song.

Valid point.
But Cain would still have been in the group.
Throw in Schon and Chalfant, and who knows what they would've came up with.

At the time, no one in their right mind would have given up a chance to have Steve Perry back in Journey - the label wanted it, the band obviously wanted it, and the fans especially wanted it.

Herbie Herbert wanted Perry out even earlier than ROR.
Success comes with taking risks.
Once again, they should've listened to the big man.

'Trial By Fire' is a beautiful album, so they were on the right track.

On the right track to do what?
Their advance by Sony went up in smoke, there was no tour, the only benefit was to further cement Perry as Journey, and Journey as Perry, in the minds of millions.
Additionally, thanks to the brief 90s reunion album, audiences have the impression that Journey threw Perry out.
Instead of the reality of Neal and Jon waiting since the 80's to get back on tour.

No one could have predicted SP's hip surgery (not wanting to tour, well, HH did predict that) or predicted SA's vocal problems or what would have become of adding Rolie/Chalfant.

Not to be repetitious, but Herbie seems to have had the foresight of all these things.
As for SA's vocal problems, I had my doubts about him handling the catalog just from listening to his live Tyketto boots back in the day.
As Augeri himself said, he was a "scraper" not some operatic tenor.

They aren't hitmakers on their own...

Not sure if you're aware of this, but the band has released three albums without Perry since 2001...

Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

I don't see how you can put down the songwriting potential of Chalfant and Rolie, who have solid rock street cred, while holding up the Augeri and Arnel lineups as models of success.
Just what exactly did they contribute to the process again?

TNC, without getting too much into it, let me just say that you may be putting far too much credence in the things Herbert has purportedly said online and in interviews....Keep in mind that there were personal and more importantly business decisions that Herbert and Perry battled each other on, and ultimately the band as a whole sided with Perry...Given Herbert's perceived role in the success of the band, that ultimately was a crushing blow to him, and he has NEVER let go of that bitterness, thus the poisoned image of Perry that Herbert has painted in interviews. And I'm talking about pretty much one specific situation, not the numerous decisions Herbert has talked about in the past. Let's put it this way - Herbert wanted total control of that band back and Perry fought him on behalf of the band for it, and won. This is when the rest of the band purportedly handed Perry the reins....Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is Herbie Herbert's is only one side of the story - Take the old adage about a woman scorned, and replace a woman with a band manager, and you get the idea.

[portland]

Almost all of the radio-friendly hits that came out during the Rolie years that TNC mentioned are Perry/Schon songs, with the exception of WITS (which has no writing credit for Rolie) and Feeling That Way, which is a Perry/Rolie/Dunbar song.

Valid point.
But Cain would still have been in the group.
Throw in Schon and Chalfant, and who knows what they would've came up with.

At the time, no one in their right mind would have given up a chance to have Steve Perry back in Journey - the label wanted it, the band obviously wanted it, and the fans especially wanted it.

Herbie Herbert wanted Perry out even earlier than ROR.
Success comes with taking risks.
Once again, they should've listened to the big man.

'Trial By Fire' is a beautiful album, so they were on the right track.

On the right track to do what?
Their advance by Sony went up in smoke, there was no tour, the only benefit was to further cement Perry as Journey, and Journey as Perry, in the minds of millions.
Additionally, thanks to the brief 90s reunion album, audiences have the impression that Journey threw Perry out.
Instead of the reality of Neal and Jon waiting since the 80's to get back on tour.

No one could have predicted SP's hip surgery (not wanting to tour, well, HH did predict that) or predicted SA's vocal problems or what would have become of adding Rolie/Chalfant.

Not to be repetitious, but Herbie seems to have had the foresight of all these things.
As for SA's vocal problems, I had my doubts about him handling the catalog just from listening to his live Tyketto boots back in the day.
As Augeri himself said, he was a "scraper" not some operatic tenor.

They aren't hitmakers on their own...

Not sure if you're aware of this, but the band has released three albums without Perry since 2001...

Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

I don't see how you can put down the songwriting potential of Chalfant and Rolie, who have solid rock street cred, while holding up the Augeri and Arnel lineups as models of success.
Just what exactly did they contribute to the process again?

TNC, without getting too much into it, let me just say that you may be putting far too much credence in the things Herbert has purportedly said online and in interviews....Keep in mind that there were personal and more importantly business decisions that Herbert and Perry battled each other on, and ultimately the band as a whole sided with Perry...Given Herbert's perceived role in the success of the band, that ultimately was a crushing blow to him, and he has NEVER let go of that bitterness, thus the poisoned image of Perry that Herbert has painted in interviews. And I'm talking about pretty much one specific situation, not the numerous decisions Herbert has talked about in the past. Let's put it this way - Herbert wanted total control of that band back and Perry fought him on behalf of the band for it, and won. This is when the rest of the band purportedly handed Perry the reins....Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is Herbie Herbert's is only one side of the story - Take the old adage about a woman scorned, and replace a woman with a band manager, and you get the idea.

Jeremy - thanks for this post....you seem to be a voice of reason here in the trenches!

[Arkansas]

I don't see how you can put down the songwriting potential of Chalfant and Rolie, who have solid rock street cred, while holding up the Augeri and Arnel lineups as models of success.
Just what exactly did they contribute to the process again?

Chalfant, Rolie, & Cain...heavily peppered & nicely decorated with Neal Schon.
Now that's song writing potential. That's the album I wanna hear.

Give Augeri his due...and AP is a tremendous singer...but put these four guys with Valory's bass and Deen's monster drums (not to mention great vocals), and I think we'd have the Journey that everyone would love.

Seriously, could you imagine that wall of sound in your face?


later~

[Glenn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwnD23Grl7U


KC with Gregg Rolie in 2008 ..


What could have been indeed...

[steveo777]

I don't see how you can put down the songwriting potential of Chalfant and Rolie, who have solid rock street cred, while holding up the Augeri and Arnel lineups as models of success.
Just what exactly did they contribute to the process again?

Chalfant, Rolie, & Cain...heavily peppered & nicely decorated with Neal Schon.
Now that's song writing potential. That's the album I wanna hear.

Give Augeri his due...and AP is a tremendous singer...but put these four guys with Valory's bass and Deen's monster drums (not to mention great vocals), and I think we'd have the Journey that everyone would love.

Seriously, could you imagine that wall of sound in your face?

later~

Phil Spector is in prison.

[Peartree12249]

I just heard a farting noise. Shame.

----------------
Now playing: Faster Pussycat - Nonstop To Nowhere

That was just me...sorry! I can't find any other recording from that show, but how about I just post the best song he ever sang on?

Here's The Storm's "Show Me The Way". This sounds so much like Journey that it's just scary!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKj9Xr1m ... re=related

While we're on the subject of The Storm, I HAVE to tell this story...

I spoke to Josh Ramos several times regarding having him play on my project a few years ago. While we were talking, I happened to mention that I found a cd in a record store that was the A.C. single of "Show Me The Way". I bought it for like $3.00. I told him there were pretty much NO guitars in this version, and they even took out the solo. He had never heard of this version and had me send him a copy. We were laughing like hell over that! Sorry...I guess you had to be there, but it WAS funny at the time.

Josh is one of the nicest, most down-to-earth guys you could ever talk to. I hope we do get to work on something together someday.

Loved it! I hadn't heard this song before Jim, thanks for posting it. To me, KC definitely has his own sound and does not appear to be doing SP. However, he does bring to the table a similar quality as SP and that is passion and soul. He's singing his heart out on this song. This is the main reason Arnel does not connect with me . He's got a great voice, but for me at least he's lacking that passion.

[youkeepmewaiting]

I just heard a farting noise. Shame.

----------------
Now playing: Faster Pussycat - Nonstop To Nowhere

That was just me...sorry! I can't find any other recording from that show, but how about I just post the best song he ever sang on?

Here's The Storm's "Show Me The Way". This sounds so much like Journey that it's just scary!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKj9Xr1m ... re=related

While we're on the subject of The Storm, I HAVE to tell this story...

I spoke to Josh Ramos several times regarding having him play on my project a few years ago. While we were talking, I happened to mention that I found a cd in a record store that was the A.C. single of "Show Me The Way". I bought it for like $3.00. I told him there were pretty much NO guitars in this version, and they even took out the solo. He had never heard of this version and had me send him a copy. We were laughing like hell over that! Sorry...I guess you had to be there, but it WAS funny at the time.

Josh is one of the nicest, most down-to-earth guys you could ever talk to. I hope we do get to work on something together someday.

Loved it! I hadn't heard this song before Jim, thanks for posting it. To me, KC definitely has his own sound and does not appear to be doing SP. However, he does bring to the table a similar quality as SP and that is passion and soul. He's singing his heart out on this song. This is the main reason Arnel does not connect with me . He's got a great voice, but for me at least he's lacking that passion.

I can understand that some people feel that.. but I can really feel his passion now.

[G.I.Jim]

You're welcome Peartree. I just heard a song I don't think I've ever heard from them before, and it is classic AOR. AWESOME song. I really like Arnel, but there's just something cool as hell with KC's voice. I personally think he would have been the best choice to replace Perry. Just my opinion of course.

Anyway, here's "Waiting For The World To Change"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIFwgHKW ... re=related

[youkeepmewaiting]

You're welcome Peartree. I just heard a song I don't think I've ever heard from them before, and it is classic AOR. AWESOME song. I really like Arnel, but there's just something cool as hell with KC's voice. I personally think he would have been the best choice to replace Perry. Just my opinion of course.

Anyway, here's "Waiting For The World To Change"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIFwgHKW ... re=related

Yeah from the second album.

I could never get into The Storm at first. Until I heard this song, which made me go back and listen to both albums again, and now I love it

[The_Noble_Cause]

TNC, without getting too much into it, let me just say that you may be putting far too much credence in the things Herbert has purportedly said online and in interviews....Keep in mind that there were personal and more importantly business decisions that Herbert and Perry battled each other on, and ultimately the band as a whole sided with Perry...Given Herbert's perceived role in the success of the band, that ultimately was a crushing blow to him, and he has NEVER let go of that bitterness, thus the poisoned image of Perry that Herbert has painted in interviews. And I'm talking about pretty much one specific situation, not the numerous decisions Herbert has talked about in the past. Let's put it this way - Herbert wanted total control of that band back and Perry fought him on behalf of the band for it, and won. This is when the rest of the band purportedly handed Perry the reins....Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is Herbie Herbert's is only one side of the story - Take the old adage about a woman scorned, and replace a woman with a band manager, and you get the idea.

Fair enough J.
Let me just say, if forging ahead with Chalfant and Rolie was ever an option, I think the band should've pursued it.
Regardless if the idea originated with someone intimately connected to the band (like Herbie), or not.

[parfait]

I don't the fuzz you guys are making about this KC guy. A can of soup would be more fun to watch than the performance in that video.

[Peartree12249]

I just heard a farting noise. Shame.

----------------
Now playing: Faster Pussycat - Nonstop To Nowhere

That was just me...sorry! I can't find any other recording from that show, but how about I just post the best song he ever sang on?

Here's The Storm's "Show Me The Way". This sounds so much like Journey that it's just scary!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKj9Xr1m ... re=related

While we're on the subject of The Storm, I HAVE to tell this story...

I spoke to Josh Ramos several times regarding having him play on my project a few years ago. While we were talking, I happened to mention that I found a cd in a record store that was the A.C. single of "Show Me The Way". I bought it for like $3.00. I told him there were pretty much NO guitars in this version, and they even took out the solo. He had never heard of this version and had me send him a copy. We were laughing like hell over that! Sorry...I guess you had to be there, but it WAS funny at the time.

Josh is one of the nicest, most down-to-earth guys you could ever talk to. I hope we do get to work on something together someday.

Loved it! I hadn't heard this song before Jim, thanks for posting it. To me, KC definitely has his own sound and does not appear to be doing SP. However, he does bring to the table a similar quality as SP and that is passion and soul. He's singing his heart out on this song. This is the main reason Arnel does not connect with me . He's got a great voice, but for me at least he's lacking that passion.

I can understand that some people feel that.. but I can really feel his passion now.

I would agree he's definitely gotten better. I do like Arnel, I just don't feel the same emotional connection. But to each his own. That's the beauty of music. Something for everyone.

[Monker]

I love TBF , it was worth sacrificing GR and KC

That's a sad statement...because they not only sacrificed Kevin and Gregg, but also Herbie, and then later Journey itself. Following TBF and the 'hip thing', there was no Journey until Neal decided to bring it back, again, without Perry. After everything that happened with TBF, they were right back where they started...a band without a lead singer, except now they didn't have their manager partner, a chance of getting Gregg back, or enough legitimacy to gaurantee a lable deal. They had to go on two tours with Augeri to convince Sony to release Arrival.

[youkeepmewaiting]

I love TBF , it was worth sacrificing GR and KC

That's a sad statement...because they not only sacrificed Kevin and Gregg, but also Herbie, and then later Journey itself. Following TBF and the 'hip thing', there was no Journey until Neal decided to bring it back, again, without Perry. After everything that happened with TBF, they were right back where they started...a band without a lead singer, except now they didn't have their manager partner, a chance of getting Gregg back, or enough legitimacy to gaurantee a lable deal. They had to go on two tours with Augeri to convince Sony to release Arrival.

It's my favourite Journey album.. a masterpiece... not sad at all

Shame about Herbie though definitely.

[Monker]

That's a good summary...I just want to throw one more thing into this...

Prior to TBF, they had to deal with Perry as he was part owner of the band...just as they had to get Perry to sign himself out of Journey following TBF to allow Augeri to enter the band. Perry decided he wanted in, and Herbie/Gregg/Kevin out. That completely sucked because everything up to that point from Perry showed that he was not interested in being in Journey, he wanted to do his own thing.

But, 'his own thing' was not as successful as a Journey album. He knew that, Sony knew that, and the band knew that an album with Perry was worth more then an album without him. So, ALL OF THOSE INVOLVED chose to go where the money was instead of the longevity of a band that wanted to be together. But, in the end, they all got screwed because of Perry's hip. The album died quickly cuz there was no reunion tour to keep the buzz going. The singles following "When You Love a Woman" barely did anything. it was a reunion with Perry that was probably no more successful then a reunion without him. And, of course, there was no tour which affects the BANDS pockets more then anybody elses...so whatever they gained for their reunion album, they lost (and then some) from the lack of tour revenue.

So, yes, it was a 'missed opportunity' to move on from the Perry bullshit from ROR...and it gave him the chance to do the same crap once again The people who do not see this are holding on to their beliefs because the shadow that Perry's nose is casting over their eyes.

Almost all of the radio-friendly hits that came out during the Rolie years that TNC mentioned are Perry/Schon songs, with the exception of WITS (which has no writing credit for Rolie) and Feeling That Way, which is a Perry/Rolie/Dunbar song.

Valid point.
But Cain would still have been in the group.
Throw in Schon and Chalfant, and who knows what they would've came up with.

At the time, no one in their right mind would have given up a chance to have Steve Perry back in Journey - the label wanted it, the band obviously wanted it, and the fans especially wanted it.

Herbie Herbert wanted Perry out even earlier than ROR.
Success comes with taking risks.
Once again, they should've listened to the big man.

'Trial By Fire' is a beautiful album, so they were on the right track.

On the right track to do what?
Their advance by Sony went up in smoke, there was no tour, the only benefit was to further cement Perry as Journey, and Journey as Perry, in the minds of millions.
Additionally, thanks to the brief 90s reunion album, audiences have the impression that Journey threw Perry out.
Instead of the reality of Neal and Jon waiting since the 80's to get back on tour.

No one could have predicted SP's hip surgery (not wanting to tour, well, HH did predict that) or predicted SA's vocal problems or what would have become of adding Rolie/Chalfant.

Not to be repetitious, but Herbie seems to have had the foresight of all these things.
As for SA's vocal problems, I had my doubts about him handling the catalog just from listening to his live Tyketto boots back in the day.
As Augeri himself said, he was a "scraper" not some operatic tenor.

They aren't hitmakers on their own...

Not sure if you're aware of this, but the band has released three albums without Perry since 2001...

Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

I don't see how you can put down the songwriting potential of Chalfant and Rolie, who have solid rock street cred, while holding up the Augeri and Arnel lineups as models of success.
Just what exactly did they contribute to the process again?

[Monker]

The only problem is, without Herbie and with Perry running the show, Journey died.

With Herbie, Journey was #1 in the world.

Almost all of the radio-friendly hits that came out during the Rolie years that TNC mentioned are Perry/Schon songs, with the exception of WITS (which has no writing credit for Rolie) and Feeling That Way, which is a Perry/Rolie/Dunbar song.

Valid point.
But Cain would still have been in the group.
Throw in Schon and Chalfant, and who knows what they would've came up with.

At the time, no one in their right mind would have given up a chance to have Steve Perry back in Journey - the label wanted it, the band obviously wanted it, and the fans especially wanted it.

Herbie Herbert wanted Perry out even earlier than ROR.
Success comes with taking risks.
Once again, they should've listened to the big man.

'Trial By Fire' is a beautiful album, so they were on the right track.

On the right track to do what?
Their advance by Sony went up in smoke, there was no tour, the only benefit was to further cement Perry as Journey, and Journey as Perry, in the minds of millions.
Additionally, thanks to the brief 90s reunion album, audiences have the impression that Journey threw Perry out.
Instead of the reality of Neal and Jon waiting since the 80's to get back on tour.

No one could have predicted SP's hip surgery (not wanting to tour, well, HH did predict that) or predicted SA's vocal problems or what would have become of adding Rolie/Chalfant.

Not to be repetitious, but Herbie seems to have had the foresight of all these things.
As for SA's vocal problems, I had my doubts about him handling the catalog just from listening to his live Tyketto boots back in the day.
As Augeri himself said, he was a "scraper" not some operatic tenor.

They aren't hitmakers on their own...

Not sure if you're aware of this, but the band has released three albums without Perry since 2001...

Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

I don't see how you can put down the songwriting potential of Chalfant and Rolie, who have solid rock street cred, while holding up the Augeri and Arnel lineups as models of success.
Just what exactly did they contribute to the process again?

TNC, without getting too much into it, let me just say that you may be putting far too much credence in the things Herbert has purportedly said online and in interviews....Keep in mind that there were personal and more importantly business decisions that Herbert and Perry battled each other on, and ultimately the band as a whole sided with Perry...Given Herbert's perceived role in the success of the band, that ultimately was a crushing blow to him, and he has NEVER let go of that bitterness, thus the poisoned image of Perry that Herbert has painted in interviews. And I'm talking about pretty much one specific situation, not the numerous decisions Herbert has talked about in the past. Let's put it this way - Herbert wanted total control of that band back and Perry fought him on behalf of the band for it, and won. This is when the rest of the band purportedly handed Perry the reins....Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is Herbie Herbert's is only one side of the story - Take the old adage about a woman scorned, and replace a woman with a band manager, and you get the idea.

[Monker]

I don't see how you can put down the songwriting potential of Chalfant and Rolie, who have solid rock street cred, while holding up the Augeri and Arnel lineups as models of success.
Just what exactly did they contribute to the process again?

Chalfant, Rolie, & Cain...heavily peppered & nicely decorated with Neal Schon.
Now that's song writing potential. That's the album I wanna hear.

Give Augeri his due...and AP is a tremendous singer...but put these four guys with Valory's bass and Deen's monster drums (not to mention great vocals), and I think we'd have the Journey that everyone would love.

Seriously, could you imagine that wall of sound in your face?


later~

I did...back in 1995/96. Today, I would hate for Chalfant to get mixed up in the bullshit shinanigans of what Journey does to the members of their band.

[youkeepmewaiting]

That's a good summary...I just want to throw one more thing into this...

Prior to TBF, they had to deal with Perry as he was part owner of the band...just as they had to get Perry to sign himself out of Journey following TBF to allow Augeri to enter the band. Perry decided he wanted in, and Herbie/Gregg/Kevin out. That completely sucked because everything up to that point from Perry showed that he was not interested in being in Journey, he wanted to do his own thing.

But, 'his own thing' was not as successful as a Journey album. He knew that, Sony knew that, and the band knew that an album with Perry was worth more then an album without him. So, ALL OF THOSE INVOLVED chose to go where the money was instead of the longevity of a band that wanted to be together. But, in the end, they all got screwed because of Perry's hip. The album died quickly cuz there was no reunion tour to keep the buzz going. The singles following "When You Love a Woman" barely did anything. it was a reunion with Perry that was probably no more successful then a reunion without him. And, of course, there was no tour which affects the BANDS pockets more then anybody elses...so whatever they gained for their reunion album, they lost (and then some) from the lack of tour revenue.

So, yes, it was a 'missed opportunity' to move on from the Perry bullshit from ROR...and it gave him the chance to do the same crap once again The people who do not see this are holding on to their beliefs because the shadow that Perry's nose is casting over their eyes.

Almost all of the radio-friendly hits that came out during the Rolie years that TNC mentioned are Perry/Schon songs, with the exception of WITS (which has no writing credit for Rolie) and Feeling That Way, which is a Perry/Rolie/Dunbar song.

Valid point.
But Cain would still have been in the group.
Throw in Schon and Chalfant, and who knows what they would've came up with.

At the time, no one in their right mind would have given up a chance to have Steve Perry back in Journey - the label wanted it, the band obviously wanted it, and the fans especially wanted it.

Herbie Herbert wanted Perry out even earlier than ROR.
Success comes with taking risks.
Once again, they should've listened to the big man.

'Trial By Fire' is a beautiful album, so they were on the right track.

On the right track to do what?
Their advance by Sony went up in smoke, there was no tour, the only benefit was to further cement Perry as Journey, and Journey as Perry, in the minds of millions.
Additionally, thanks to the brief 90s reunion album, audiences have the impression that Journey threw Perry out.
Instead of the reality of Neal and Jon waiting since the 80's to get back on tour.

No one could have predicted SP's hip surgery (not wanting to tour, well, HH did predict that) or predicted SA's vocal problems or what would have become of adding Rolie/Chalfant.

Not to be repetitious, but Herbie seems to have had the foresight of all these things.
As for SA's vocal problems, I had my doubts about him handling the catalog just from listening to his live Tyketto boots back in the day.
As Augeri himself said, he was a "scraper" not some operatic tenor.

They aren't hitmakers on their own...

Not sure if you're aware of this, but the band has released three albums without Perry since 2001...

Given what he knew at the time, I believe Neal made the right decisions. Considering how well Journey is currently doing with Arnel - I think that was another smart decision.

I don't see how you can put down the songwriting potential of Chalfant and Rolie, who have solid rock street cred, while holding up the Augeri and Arnel lineups as models of success.
Just what exactly did they contribute to the process again?

Maybe it was a missed opportunity.. but I am content with how everything has turned out at the moment (apart from the hole "SP not touring... or singing... or doing anything apart from watching baseball and collecting milk top bottles" thing

[Monker]

I love TBF , it was worth sacrificing GR and KC

That's a sad statement...because they not only sacrificed Kevin and Gregg, but also Herbie, and then later Journey itself. Following TBF and the 'hip thing', there was no Journey until Neal decided to bring it back, again, without Perry. After everything that happened with TBF, they were right back where they started...a band without a lead singer, except now they didn't have their manager partner, a chance of getting Gregg back, or enough legitimacy to gaurantee a lable deal. They had to go on two tours with Augeri to convince Sony to release Arrival.

It's my favourite Journey album.. a masterpiece... not sad at all

Shame about Herbie though definitely.

I don't care if you like the album.

Saying that sacrificing the band to get the album was worth it for one album is a sad thing.

[portland]

I love TBF , it was worth sacrificing GR and KC

That's a sad statement...because they not only sacrificed Kevin and Gregg, but also Herbie, and then later Journey itself. Following TBF and the 'hip thing', there was no Journey until Neal decided to bring it back, again, without Perry. After everything that happened with TBF, they were right back where they started...a band without a lead singer, except now they didn't have their manager partner, a chance of getting Gregg back, or enough legitimacy to gaurantee a lable deal. They had to go on two tours with Augeri to convince Sony to release Arrival.

It's my favourite Journey album.. a masterpiece... not sad at all

Shame about Herbie though definitely.

I don't care if you like the album.

Saying that sacrificing the band to get the album was worth it for one album is a sad thing.

Well some people think it was worth it........and don't care that you don't

[Monker]

I don't care if you like the album.

Saying that sacrificing the band to get the album was worth it for one album is a sad thing.

Well some people think it was worth it........and don't care that you don't

So? It's their right to say it's worth it, and it's mine to say it is a sad thing to say that sacrificing the entire band was worth it for one album. If they didn't care, people like you wouldn't keep arguing the point with me.

[kgdjpubs]

I don't the fuzz you guys are making about this KC guy. A can of soup would be more fun to watch than the performance in that video.

I don't think anybody ever accused Chalfant of being the most entertaining frontman. However, listen to the vocals in the song Waiting for the World To Change, posted above. I'll recopy the link here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIFwgHKW ... re=related

In the end, the guy can sing--has his own identity, and has more range than Augeri ever did. Go find his solo album Running with the Wind. Generally speaking, he sounds a lot more like Bryan Adams than Perry on that album.