2005 Generations Tour - Opening Night

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Allow me to ramble a little bit.

I'm listening to my recording of opening night of the Generations Tour, June 26, 2005 in Irvine, California. While this setlist would be a dream for many of the people who post on this board, you can clearly tell why they don't play a heavy combination of deep cuts and new album tracks anymore.

At the beginning of the second set between Faith In The Heartland and The Place In Your Heart, Augeri announces that they're going to play something else new. And the crowd by the bootlegger is audibly booing. And between songs of a 20-minute stretch of Out Of Harms Way, In Self-Defense and Butterfly, people in the crowd are yelling "play something good," "play a good song," "play something we know," etc. I think the band learned its lesson on this night after playing 8 songs from Generations and a whole set of deep cuts. If you remember, the number of Generations tracks was cut in half beginning almost the next night.

And while I would certainly agree with you if you said Revelation is a stronger album overall than Generations, I think the band would be faced with much of the same reaction if they added many more Revelation songs beyond Never Walk Away, Change For The Better and Wildest Dream. Even with the strength of the greatest hits, you can't do much to save a setlist if you intersperse the hits between 6, 7 or 8 cuts from a new album and a deep cut or three.

As much as I'd love to see another tour where they play Of A Lifetime, I'm Gonna Leave You, Mystery Mountain and Daydream, as well as support a new album, it simply won't happen. That's why I'm glad to have seen a couple of 3-hour shows on the Generations Tour, because those songs will never be dusted off again.

So I think we're going to have to settle for three Revelation songs, One More where we can get it and a couple of sightings of Mother, Father and Keep On Runnin'. To even get that in a 90-minute set with another band on the bill is pretty solid, in my opinion.

(and by the way, this show is almost un-listenable because of Augeri's struggles. I feel bad for the guy, but his voice is clearly shot. Even on opening night. They chalked it up to him warming up and then not singing while playing rhythm guitar for 45 minutes at the beginning of the show, but the writing is on the wall.)

[JRNYFan]

Yep, I remember that setlist well. I was pleased that they were branching out with all the new songs, but as usual, the casual fans ruined it for the real fans. I remember Jonathan Cain saying how they had to "hold the hands" of audience, meaning that they could only play the the safe, familiar songs.

[Red13JoePa]

Agreed, typical horrible American A.D.D.-riddled, sense of entitlement, instant-gratification, wine-and-cheese crowd audience.

THAT is a fan's DREAM setlist.

[JRNYFan]

fightingilliniJRNY, would you be willing to share the show with some of us on here?

[Jana]

It's hard a lot of times except for certain bands like U2 that can get away with it more; although, they always have a lot of the standyby hits in the set that everyone wants When Tears For Fears reunited and put out Everybody Loves a Happy Ending, they were determined to do mostly newer stuff and especially not many hits even from their old music. I remember reading a blog by the singer to his fans that they were listening to the complaints in Europe and it was tough going over there and by the time they got to the U.S. added back in more hits and songs people were familiar with I think only about three from the new album.

.

[jrnyman28]

I was applauding the adventurous tour and setlist. And, although they still continued to trim Generations tunes too much, I think it was a very successful setlist. By the time I saw them there were only 3 Generations tunes in the set...that was wrong, especially when giving the audience the CD at the gates. Of course it would have helped if the disc had sounded better... Red and JRNYfan are correct, the casual fan screwed everything up. Of course this brings my old arguments back: If Journey had stuck to their guns from the get go with Steve A, they could have moved into the new era and brought their fans with them. The Arrival tour featured 4 Arrival songs and rotated them throughout the tour. GREAT! But fans were complaining that there was no Open Arms. Next tour, ONE Arrival song. Stupid. Then Red13 comes out and they play ONE Arrival song and TWO Red 13. By now, IMO, they should've been playing 3 Arrival songs consistently and picked 2 Red 13 tracks. Next tour....ONE Arrival track! Generations comes around and they overload in the beginning and go too lean by the end. Next tour...Did we even get the ONE Arrival tune? Coming out of Generations the band could have been playing 7 or 8 post-Perry tunes covering all their releases! That still would've given plenty of time for the DD and a deep cut here and there. The DD could easily rotate through other concert mainstays as well keeping the setlists more vibrant. I still believe Journey could have become a true post-Perry Journey still honoring their past while moving forward. And that would've eliminated a lot of the 'resting on Perry's legacy' arguments....

But I am simply lamenting a missed opportunity. The band has rebound, settled into their NOSTALGIA role while FINALLY supporting their lead singer......

[JRNYFan]

I was applauding the adventurous tour and setlist. And, although they still continued to trim Generations tunes too much, I think it was a very successful setlist. By the time I saw them there were only 3 Generations tunes in the set...that was wrong, especially when giving the audience the CD at the gates. Of course it would have helped if the disc had sounded better... Red and JRNYfan are correct, the casual fan screwed everything up. Of course this brings my old arguments back: If Journey had stuck to their guns from the get go with Steve A, they could have moved into the new era and brought their fans with them. The Arrival tour featured 4 Arrival songs and rotated them throughout the tour. GREAT! But fans were complaining that there was no Open Arms. Next tour, ONE Arrival song. Stupid. Then Red13 comes out and they play ONE Arrival song and TWO Red 13. By now, IMO, they should've been playing 3 Arrival songs consistently and picked 2 Red 13 tracks. Next tour....ONE Arrival track! Generations comes around and they overload in the beginning and go too lean by the end. Next tour...Did we even get the ONE Arrival tune? Coming out of Generations the band could have been playing 7 or 8 post-Perry tunes covering all their releases! That still would've given plenty of time for the DD and a deep cut here and there. The DD could easily rotate through other concert mainstays as well keeping the setlists more vibrant. I still believe Journey could have become a true post-Perry Journey still honoring their past while moving forward. And that would've eliminated a lot of the 'resting on Perry's legacy' arguments....

But I am simply lamenting a missed opportunity. The band has rebound, settled into their NOSTALGIA role while FINALLY supporting their lead singer......

You're right. They definitely should have pushed newer material from the beginning. Who knows what the setlist would like today had they not had that 11-year touring break? Maybe they wouldn't be so stuck in the past. After so long away, you almost get frozen in time and it can be hard to break that mold. I think that's why Perry is so "legendary" today. He pressed pause on the glory and hasn't added anything that isn't "as good" as the old stuff.

[stevew2]

Allow me to ramble a little bit.

I'm listening to my recording of opening night of the Generations Tour, June 26, 2005 in Irvine, California. While this setlist would be a dream for many of the people who post on this board, you can clearly tell why they don't play a heavy combination of deep cuts and new album tracks anymore.

At the beginning of the second set between Faith In The Heartland and The Place In Your Heart, Augeri announces that they're going to play something else new. And the crowd by the bootlegger is audibly booing. And between songs of a 20-minute stretch of Out Of Harms Way, In Self-Defense and Butterfly, people in the crowd are yelling "play something good," "play a good song," "play something we know," etc. I think the band learned its lesson on this night after playing 8 songs from Generations and a whole set of deep cuts. If you remember, the number of Generations tracks was cut in half beginning almost the next night.

And while I would certainly agree with you if you said Revelation is a stronger album overall than Generations, I think the band would be faced with much of the same reaction if they added many more Revelation songs beyond Never Walk Away, Change For The Better and Wildest Dream. Even with the strength of the greatest hits, you can't do much to save a setlist if you intersperse the hits between 6, 7 or 8 cuts from a new album and a deep cut or three.

As much as I'd love to see another tour where they play Of A Lifetime, I'm Gonna Leave You, Mystery Mountain and Daydream, as well as support a new album, it simply won't happen. That's why I'm glad to have seen a couple of 3-hour shows on the Generations Tour, because those songs will never be dusted off again.

So I think we're going to have to settle for three Revelation songs, One More where we can get it and a couple of sightings of Mother, Father and Keep On Runnin'. To even get that in a 90-minute set with another band on the bill is pretty solid, in my opinion.

(and by the way, this show is almost un-listenable because of Augeri's struggles. I feel bad for the guy, but his voice is clearly shot. Even on opening night. They chalked it up to him warming up and then not singing while playing rhythm guitar for 45 minutes at the beginning of the show, but the writing is on the wall.)

I remember that tour. I was in State Collage Pa, handing out the free Generation Cds, some people actually left during the first set,then in Nov. that year they back down to the hits and using tapes

[fightingilliniJRNY]

The Arrival tour featured 4 Arrival songs and rotated them throughout the tour. GREAT! But fans were complaining that there was no Open Arms.

This happened at the beginning of the Def Leppard tour, too. In 2006, they should have still been supporting Generations. But when the casual fan complained about no Open Arms, a Generations track (I think Every Generation) was dropped for Open Arms.

Then Red13 comes out and they play ONE Arrival song and TWO Red 13. By now, IMO, they should've been playing 3 Arrival songs consistently and picked 2 Red 13 tracks. Next tour....ONE Arrival track! Generations comes around and they overload in the beginning and go too lean by the end. Next tour...Did we even get the ONE Arrival tune? Coming out of Generations the band could have been playing 7 or 8 post-Perry tunes covering all their releases! That still would've given plenty of time for the DD and a deep cut here and there.

You are 100% correct. They should have built on each previous release, rather than releasing an album, supporting it during that tour, and then putting all songs from it on the shelf, only to dust one off once in a blue moon. Higher Place could have been a mainstay in the set for 9 years now! Nine years! But sadly, another great tune from a post-Perry album has gone unnoticed. I wonder what will happen to Revelation, their most successful post-Perry album, on the 2010 tour when they're supporting a new album.

The DD could easily rotate through other concert mainstays as well keeping the setlists more vibrant. I still believe Journey could have become a true post-Perry Journey still honoring their past while moving forward. And that would've eliminated a lot of the 'resting on Perry's legacy' arguments.

Agreed. Had something from Arrival been played regularly since 2001, what's the harm in leaving out Only The Young or Ask The Lonely for this song every once in a while? This is their 7th tour since the Arrival tour. That could have been seven tours worth of Higher Place (or something else - Higher Place is just the example I'm using) that people would now recognize.

Missed opportunities to get some damn good songs the respect they deserve. The band might complain about being tired of playing the Dirty Dozen, but they really brought it on themselves by resting on their laurels and playing them night after night. I will say that I think the Revelation material (2008 and 2009) has been mixed in properly with deep cuts and the greatest hits to form a pretty respectable setlist for casual fans, new fans, and old fans alike. Let's see if it continues.

Dave, you're spot on as always.

[Eric]

They went away too long and their GH became too popular in their absence. They are stuck to it. (Especially without radio respect minus Perry)

I have to say, the only tour I was truly dissappointed with the setlist was 2002-Under the Radar. So many people say they loved that tour, but they had the same setlist the entire tour and despite having just a 4-song EP out they played only 2 songs off it (plus Higher Place). That tour was pointless (as was 2004).

Grades of the tours:

'98 Vacations Over - Leg1 = A- (They busted their butt..and it was all new again for all of us)
'99 Vacations Over - Leg2 (with Foreigner) = B+ (Great duo, would like to see it again)
'01 Arrival (with Frampton/Waite) = B+ (I thought it had a big feel to it and it was a good lineup. Setlist had 6 different Arrival songs for the 2 shows I saw)
'02 Under the Radar = D (2 songs off a 4 song EP?....junky tiny dumps?...same setlist?)
'03 Main event (w/Styx/REO) = C+ (The lineup was fun, and Journey was better than given credit for)
'04 Detour = C (Longer set and Deen-o started to sing, but they needed to go away for year if they had nothing new)
'05 Generations = A (then lipping found out drops it to C, but concept was outstanding, as was stage)
'06 No Name? (Opener to Leppard) = B- (Worked out awesome after the change, but don't open again)
'07 Mini-Euro tour? = B (The boots with JSS from Madrid, for example, sounded great...and they pulled out some good stuff)
'08 Revelations Leg1 = B+ (With Heart/Cheap Trick) (Great album, great reception, Great opener)
'09 Revelations Leg2 = B* (So far*, the re-worked songs and the variety in tour locations and reception make this a success)

[Don]

Augeri could have been Journey's Sammy. Where as Van Halen just said hell with it and let Sammy take them to promise land, Journey stumbled out the gate, let Sony's lack of promotion dictate their actions and have never been able to make a clean break from Perry's shadow.

I believe Sammy said something along the lines of "I didn't want to be remembered as the band's second singer, I was going to be the only singer." And that's what he did, record company and hardcore fans be damned.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

'98 Vacations Over - Leg1 = A- (They busted their butt..and it was all new again for all of us)
'99 Vacations Over - Leg2 (with Foreigner) = B+ (Great duo, would like to see it again)
'01 Arrival (with Frampton/Waite) = B+ (I thought it had a big feel to it and it was a good lineup. Setlist had 6 different Arrival songs for the 2 shows I saw)
'02 Under the Radar = D (2 songs off a 4 song EP?....junky tiny dumps?...same setlist?)
'03 Main event (w/Styx/REO) = C+ (The lineup was fun, and Journey was better than given credit for)
'04 Detour = C (Longer set and Deen-o started to sing, but they needed to go away for year if they had nothing new)
'05 Generations = A (then lipping found out drops it to C, but concept was outstanding, as was stage)
'06 No Name? (Opener to Leppard) = B- (Worked out awesome after the change, but don't open again)
'07 Mini-Euro tour? = B (The boots with JSS from Madrid, for example, sounded great...and they pulled out some good stuff)
'08 Revelations Leg1 = B+ (With Heart/Cheap Trick) (Great album, great reception, Great opener)
'09 Revelations Leg2 = B* (So far*, the re-worked songs and the variety in tour locations and reception make this a success)

Interesting grades. I would agree with them for the most part, I think. I also think you're right on when saying that they do their album tours pretty well. Something about an album tour feels different than a regular one. Maybe it's because the tour is announced all at once instead of a date here and there. But production is definitely better on an album tour. The production on the Generations Tour was outstanding.

[stevew2]

They went away too long and their GH became too popular in their absence. They are stuck to it. (Especially without radio respect minus Perry)

I have to say, the only tour I was truly dissappointed with the setlist was 2002-Under the Radar. So many people say they loved that tour, but they had the same setlist the entire tour and despite having just a 4-song EP out they played only 2 songs off it (plus Higher Place). That tour was pointless (as was 2004).

Grades of the tours:

'98 Vacations Over - Leg1 = A- (They busted their butt..and it was all new again for all of us)
'99 Vacations Over - Leg2 (with Foreigner) = B+ (Great duo, would like to see it again)
'01 Arrival (with Frampton/Waite) = B+ (I thought it had a big feel to it and it was a good lineup. Setlist had 6 different Arrival songs for the 2 shows I saw)
'02 Under the Radar = D (2 songs off a 4 song EP?....junky tiny dumps?...same setlist?)
'03 Main event (w/Styx/REO) = C+ (The lineup was fun, and Journey was better than given credit for)
'04 Detour = C (Longer set and Deen-o started to sing, but they needed to go away for year if they had nothing new)
'05 Generations = A (then lipping found out drops it to C, but concept was outstanding, as was stage)
'06 No Name? (Opener to Leppard) = B- (Worked out awesome after the change, but don't open again)
'07 Mini-Euro tour? = B (The boots with JSS from Madrid, for example, sounded great...and they pulled out some good stuff)
'08 Revelations Leg1 = B+ (With Heart/Cheap Trick) (Great album, great reception, Great opener)
'09 Revelations Leg2 = B* (So far*, the re-worked songs and the variety in tour locations and reception make this a success)

good reveiw i wasnt on board till the end of 2001

[jrnyman28]

They went away too long and their GH became too popular in their absence. They are stuck to it. (Especially without radio respect minus Perry)

I have to say, the only tour I was truly dissappointed with the setlist was 2002-Under the Radar. So many people say they loved that tour, but they had the same setlist the entire tour and despite having just a 4-song EP out they played only 2 songs off it (plus Higher Place). That tour was pointless (as was 2004).

Grades of the tours:

'98 Vacations Over - Leg1 = A- (They busted their butt..and it was all new again for all of us)
'99 Vacations Over - Leg2 (with Foreigner) = B+ (Great duo, would like to see it again)
'01 Arrival (with Frampton/Waite) = B+ (I thought it had a big feel to it and it was a good lineup. Setlist had 6 different Arrival songs for the 2 shows I saw)
'02 Under the Radar = D (2 songs off a 4 song EP?....junky tiny dumps?...same setlist?)
'03 Main event (w/Styx/REO) = C+ (The lineup was fun, and Journey was better than given credit for)
'04 Detour = C (Longer set and Deen-o started to sing, but they needed to go away for year if they had nothing new)
'05 Generations = A (then lipping found out drops it to C, but concept was outstanding, as was stage)
'06 No Name? (Opener to Leppard) = B- (Worked out awesome after the change, but don't open again)
'07 Mini-Euro tour? = B (The boots with JSS from Madrid, for example, sounded great...and they pulled out some good stuff)
'08 Revelations Leg1 = B+ (With Heart/Cheap Trick) (Great album, great reception, Great opener)
'09 Revelations Leg2 = B* (So far*, the re-worked songs and the variety in tour locations and reception make this a success)

I first saw the band in 99 with Foreigner and it was very cool. But I also had no reason to be picky about anything OTHER than Steve. And while I saw he struggled some, especially not hitting a comfort zone for the first 5 songs or so, it was a thoroughly enjoyable night.

The Arrival show WAS very well done. Not enough time for it all, but I thought they picked their songs well. Of course I was ecstatic about no Open Arms.

And I am one of those people who LOVED the Under The Radar Tour...best show I saw with Augeri! The vibe was great. Yes, they were playing casinos but it really did come off intimate. Not just small. Steve was relaxed (no shoes) and Neal was on fire. Plus they did the Acoustic set! Brilliant.

The Main Event Tour sucked for me. (Hard to live up to my experience with UTR.) Styx and REO blew away Journey. Watching the clock sucked the life out of the headliner show. And Patiently was pulled before they got to my town. That was the ONLY bright spot on the setlist for me.

Generations should have been the absolute crown for the band. But there were so many problems. First and foremost IMO is that they had not prepared the audience over the past tours for a show that was lighter on the 'established' hits. Then there was the singer issue. Had Steve been healthy (which I have always attributed to the expectations of singing like Perry and not letting him be himself...which setlists supporting "his" era of material may have helpped with) this show would have been everything to everyone. Finally, the band announces a novel idea (taking a page from Prince) but cannot pull off the giveaway thoroughly (too many shows that did not include the disc) coupled with the fact that the product was inferior. Not necessarily the songs (I still enjoy much of Generations) but the mix/production and packaging.

The band has done well in Europe, getting to rock harder and stray from the DD more. And they certainly have gotten into a groove. If this were the starting point it would be an amazing start. And I would hazard a guess that this IS a (new) starting point. But it didn't have to be...and it may be a little too late. I certainly don't see them pushing away from their Perry-past anymore. They are simply embracing it now. That's okay at this stage, but ten years ago this was not what they wanted.

Damn, I thought I had gotten over all this....

[StoneCold]

Saw that show though I missed the early part due to traffic. Enjoyed hearing the new tracks.

Thanks for the in depth. As I remember there was an article the next day bemoaning that they played for 3 hours but missed Who's Crying Now.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Detour had the best mix of standards and rareities.
Or at least did, until the band got cold feet and went back to the dozen.
For a while there fans enjoyed "Happy to Give", "Suzanne", "Party's Over", "Open the Door" and others.

Like Dave, the best performance from Augeri was during Under the Radar.
He was confidant and it showed.

[FishinMagician]

Agreed, typical horrible American A.D.D.-riddled, sense of entitlement, instant-gratification, wine-and-cheese crowd audience.

THAT is a fan's DREAM setlist.

it pisses me off when people only wanna listen to stuff they "know". i wish i could have seen the generations tour for sure

[S2M]

Another viewpoint:

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/03/27/tour-preview-def-leppard-admit-if-you-play-new-songs-the-audience-walks-out/


For the first time in six years, Def Leppard are hitting the road armed with new tunes, and guitarist Phil Collen is pragmatic about how people treat new work from a veteran band. “You’d really like to go out there and play all your new shit off the new record, but you can’t do that, because they’d walk out,” he says. “It’s like when you go and see the Stones and Keith Richards starts doing a couple of songs, and everyone goes and buys a T-shirt.”

[Red13JoePa]

Agreed, typical horrible American A.D.D.-riddled, sense of entitlement, instant-gratification, wine-and-cheese crowd audience.

THAT is a fan's DREAM setlist.

it pisses me off when people only wanna listen to stuff they "know". i wish i could have seen the generations tour for sure

Yep. Think about it, like the first 4 songs in a row of D1 of the box set OPENED Irvine I LOVE listening to that boot....DAMN those pre-perry's sounded off the hook...Augeri on rythm axe playing the Tickner parts...
love the Biloxi boot of the Under The Radar tour, too for an audience boot sound quality a B+ and setlist topped only by the DeTour Canada boot and then Irvine Generations tour.
Played Liberty and Trial By Fire on the GD UTR tour and Suzanne and HTG on the DeTour. GREAT boots.
Screw fans, I hate them EVERY hit was wrapped up into the conceptualized THREE hour Generations setlist if you had the appreciation of music and attention span to "suffer" it out.
And it wasn't just Generations material that caused stampeeds to the bathrooms Daydream and Patiently even got booed. Dumb.

[Ehwmatt]

I saw the full Gens show twice and a shorter one once - still had Mystery Mountain, Nickel and Dime, and a few other deep cuts. I loved those shows. The summer of 2005 was really the last great concert summer for me, both in terms of quantity and quality. I saw so many awesome shows that summer. This summer I've seen two! That's absurd for me. But there's truly been nothing coming through here at all this summer. The economy is pinching the Cleveland venues - many of the classic rock acts that never miss Cleveland aren't making it this year (Chicago, Dream Theater, Journey, Styx/Speedwagon... plenty of others).

[stevew2]

They went away too long and their GH became too popular in their absence. They are stuck to it. (Especially without radio respect minus Perry)

I have to say, the only tour I was truly dissappointed with the setlist was 2002-Under the Radar. So many people say they loved that tour, but they had the same setlist the entire tour and despite having just a 4-song EP out they played only 2 songs off it (plus Higher Place). That tour was pointless (as was 2004).

Grades of the tours:

'98 Vacations Over - Leg1 = A- (They busted their butt..and it was all new again for all of us)
'99 Vacations Over - Leg2 (with Foreigner) = B+ (Great duo, would like to see it again)
'01 Arrival (with Frampton/Waite) = B+ (I thought it had a big feel to it and it was a good lineup. Setlist had 6 different Arrival songs for the 2 shows I saw)
'02 Under the Radar = D (2 songs off a 4 song EP?....junky tiny dumps?...same setlist?)
'03 Main event (w/Styx/REO) = C+ (The lineup was fun, and Journey was better than given credit for)
'04 Detour = C (Longer set and Deen-o started to sing, but they needed to go away for year if they had nothing new)
'05 Generations = A (then lipping found out drops it to C, but concept was outstanding, as was stage)
'06 No Name? (Opener to Leppard) = B- (Worked out awesome after the change, but don't open again)
'07 Mini-Euro tour? = B (The boots with JSS from Madrid, for example, sounded great...and they pulled out some good stuff)
'08 Revelations Leg1 = B+ (With Heart/Cheap Trick) (Great album, great reception, Great opener)
'09 Revelations Leg2 = B* (So far*, the re-worked songs and the variety in tour locations and reception make this a success)

I first saw the band in 99 with Foreigner and it was very cool. But I also had no reason to be picky about anything OTHER than Steve. And while I saw he struggled some, especially not hitting a comfort zone for the first 5 songs or so, it was a thoroughly enjoyable night.

The Arrival show WAS very well done. Not enough time for it all, but I thought they picked their songs well. Of course I was ecstatic about no Open Arms.

And I am one of those people who LOVED the Under The Radar Tour...best show I saw with Augeri! The vibe was great. Yes, they were playing casinos but it really did come off intimate. Not just small. Steve was relaxed (no shoes) and Neal was on fire. Plus they did the Acoustic set! Brilliant.

The Main Event Tour sucked for me. (Hard to live up to my experience with UTR.) Styx and REO blew away Journey. Watching the clock sucked the life out of the headliner show. And Patiently was pulled before they got to my town. That was the ONLY bright spot on the setlist for me.

Generations should have been the absolute crown for the band. But there were so many problems. First and foremost IMO is that they had not prepared the audience over the past tours for a show that was lighter on the 'established' hits. Then there was the singer issue. Had Steve been healthy (which I have always attributed to the expectations of singing like Perry and not letting him be himself...which setlists supporting "his" era of material may have helpped with) this show would have been everything to everyone. Finally, the band announces a novel idea (taking a page from Prince) but cannot pull off the giveaway thoroughly (too many shows that did not include the disc) coupled with the fact that the product was inferior. Not necessarily the songs (I still enjoy much of Generations) but the mix/production and packaging.

The band has done well in Europe, getting to rock harder and stray from the DD more. And they certainly have gotten into a groove. If this were the starting point it would be an amazing start. And I would hazard a guess that this IS a (new) starting point. But it didn't have to be...and it may be a little too late. I certainly don't see them pushing away from their Perry-past anymore. They are simply embracing it now. That's okay at this stage, but ten years ago this was not what they wanted.

Damn, I thought I had gotten over all this....

Under the radar was the best,i parked my Rv across from the tour busses, and met the whole band at the Borgata in Atlantic City Im lookin at my ticket now,it was sept 27 th 2003,they were good times

[Ehwmatt]

Agreed, typical horrible American A.D.D.-riddled, sense of entitlement, instant-gratification, wine-and-cheese crowd audience.

THAT is a fan's DREAM setlist.

it pisses me off when people only wanna listen to stuff they "know". i wish i could have seen the generations tour for sure

Yep. Think about it, like the first 4 songs in a row of D1 of the box set OPENED Irvine I LOVE listening to that boot....DAMN those pre-perry's sounded off the hook...Augeri on rythm axe playing the Tickner parts...
love the Biloxi boot of the Under The Radar tour, too for an audience boot sound quality a B+ and setlist topped only by the DeTour Canada boot and then Irvine Generations tour.
Played Liberty and Trial By Fire on the GD UTR tour and Suzanne and HTG on the DeTour. GREAT boots.
Screw fans, I hate them EVERY hit was wrapped up into the conceptualized THREE hour Generations setlist if you had the appreciation of music and attention span to "suffer" it out.
And it wasn't just Generations material that caused stampeeds to the bathrooms Daydream and Patiently even got booed. Dumb.

When I was at my first Gens show, people didn't even respond to Feelin That Way/Anytime! They didn't respond til Anyway You Want It closed the first set (right? that's how it went?).

[JRNYFan]

They went away too long and their GH became too popular in their absence. They are stuck to it. (Especially without radio respect minus Perry)

I have to say, the only tour I was truly dissappointed with the setlist was 2002-Under the Radar. So many people say they loved that tour, but they had the same setlist the entire tour and despite having just a 4-song EP out they played only 2 songs off it (plus Higher Place). That tour was pointless (as was 2004).

Grades of the tours:

'98 Vacations Over - Leg1 = A- (They busted their butt..and it was all new again for all of us)
'99 Vacations Over - Leg2 (with Foreigner) = B+ (Great duo, would like to see it again)
'01 Arrival (with Frampton/Waite) = B+ (I thought it had a big feel to it and it was a good lineup. Setlist had 6 different Arrival songs for the 2 shows I saw)
'02 Under the Radar = D (2 songs off a 4 song EP?....junky tiny dumps?...same setlist?)
'03 Main event (w/Styx/REO) = C+ (The lineup was fun, and Journey was better than given credit for)
'04 Detour = C (Longer set and Deen-o started to sing, but they needed to go away for year if they had nothing new)
'05 Generations = A (then lipping found out drops it to C, but concept was outstanding, as was stage)
'06 No Name? (Opener to Leppard) = B- (Worked out awesome after the change, but don't open again)
'07 Mini-Euro tour? = B (The boots with JSS from Madrid, for example, sounded great...and they pulled out some good stuff)
'08 Revelations Leg1 = B+ (With Heart/Cheap Trick) (Great album, great reception, Great opener)
'09 Revelations Leg2 = B* (So far*, the re-worked songs and the variety in tour locations and reception make this a success)

I am one who loved the 2002 tour! Next to 2005, I'd say it had the most diverse setlist. I've been trying to find a decent boot from that tour. Anyone know where I can find one?

[Don]

They went away too long and their GH became too popular in their absence. They are stuck to it. (Especially without radio respect minus Perry)

I have to say, the only tour I was truly dissappointed with the setlist was 2002-Under the Radar. So many people say they loved that tour, but they had the same setlist the entire tour and despite having just a 4-song EP out they played only 2 songs off it (plus Higher Place). That tour was pointless (as was 2004).

Grades of the tours:

'98 Vacations Over - Leg1 = A- (They busted their butt..and it was all new again for all of us)
'99 Vacations Over - Leg2 (with Foreigner) = B+ (Great duo, would like to see it again)
'01 Arrival (with Frampton/Waite) = B+ (I thought it had a big feel to it and it was a good lineup. Setlist had 6 different Arrival songs for the 2 shows I saw)
'02 Under the Radar = D (2 songs off a 4 song EP?....junky tiny dumps?...same setlist?)
'03 Main event (w/Styx/REO) = C+ (The lineup was fun, and Journey was better than given credit for)
'04 Detour = C (Longer set and Deen-o started to sing, but they needed to go away for year if they had nothing new)
'05 Generations = A (then lipping found out drops it to C, but concept was outstanding, as was stage)
'06 No Name? (Opener to Leppard) = B- (Worked out awesome after the change, but don't open again)
'07 Mini-Euro tour? = B (The boots with JSS from Madrid, for example, sounded great...and they pulled out some good stuff)
'08 Revelations Leg1 = B+ (With Heart/Cheap Trick) (Great album, great reception, Great opener)
'09 Revelations Leg2 = B* (So far*, the re-worked songs and the variety in tour locations and reception make this a success)

I am one who loved the 2002 tour! Next to 2005, I'd say it had the most diverse setlist. I've been trying to find a decent boot from that tour. Anyone know where I can find one?

Did you run through all the boots at Guitars101?

http://www.guitars101.com/forums/f127/j ... 49831.html

[JRNYFan]

Thanks for the tip, Gunbot

[Eric]

I should clarify its not so much the SMALL venues that bothered me for "Under the Radar".....it was that they played in too many joints that people see as being for has-been washed up bands. Journey does not have the luxury of trying to be intimate and hit TERTIARY markets. Where if VH did it would be cool, trendy and connecting to the fans...when Journey does it you get..."See, this is what they are without Perry". Journey needs to put on big shows everywhere they go. Secondary markets are critical, but tertiary markets are not worth it.

[Don]

I should clarify its not so much the SMALL venues that bothered me for "Under the Radar".....it was that they played in too many joints that people see as being for has-been washed up bands. Journey does not have the luxury of trying to be intimate and hit TERTIARY markets. Where if VH did it would be cool, trendy and connecting to the fans...when Journey does it you get..."See, this is what they are without Perry". Journey needs to put on big shows everywhere they go. Secondary markets are critical, but tertiary markets are not worth it.

Like VH playing the Whiskey, yes siree, there's a big difference. But then again, that was an anniversary show,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pde6Hr57 ... re=related

[portland]

I should clarify its not so much the SMALL venues that bothered me for "Under the Radar".....it was that they played in too many joints that people see as being for has-been washed up bands. Journey does not have the luxury of trying to be intimate and hit TERTIARY markets. Where if VH did it would be cool, trendy and connecting to the fans...when Journey does it you get..."See, this is what they are without Perry". Journey needs to put on big shows everywhere they go. Secondary markets are critical, but tertiary markets are not worth it.

Like VH playing the Whiskey, yes siree, there's a big difference. But then again, that was an anniversary show,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pde6Hr57 ... re=related

Sammy just owned his stuff....He had the attitude that made him the lead singer and you thought Dave who?

[Don]

I should clarify its not so much the SMALL venues that bothered me for "Under the Radar".....it was that they played in too many joints that people see as being for has-been washed up bands. Journey does not have the luxury of trying to be intimate and hit TERTIARY markets. Where if VH did it would be cool, trendy and connecting to the fans...when Journey does it you get..."See, this is what they are without Perry". Journey needs to put on big shows everywhere they go. Secondary markets are critical, but tertiary markets are not worth it.

Like VH playing the Whiskey, yes siree, there's a big difference. But then again, that was an anniversary show,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pde6Hr57 ... re=related

Sammy just owned his stuff....He had the attitude that made him the lead singer and you thought Dave who?

Sammy had his own fanbase coming in which helped but his big thing was the ability to wrote songs. They were able to completely discard much of the older catalog very quickly, even though it pissed off quite a few diehards.

[jrnyman28]

I think the VH success really boils down to timing. As difficult as it can be to replace a lead singer, I actually think that if you were to do it at the height of your success you hae a better chance because the fan base is at least aware and paying attention. They are still emotionally involved. I think given the time Journey was gone, replacing Perry was truly problematic because all people had were their memories. And over time memories become so much more precious and golden.