Project2011...or...Plan B

by **Andrew** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:52 pm

Ok, here’s the deal.

Sometime back I was approached by a publisher to write a book on Journey and their long colourful history.
I would love to do this, but a few things stood in the way.
1 – The time and effort to do it right; covering a 30+ year history and as many interviews as would need to be done, plus the fact no one has written a Journey book before.
2 – There are so many gag orders in place, how could I write a complete history covering the ins and outs of everything and get it right – and have everyone involved.
Seriously complicated and perhaps impossible.
I do however have direct and indirect contacts with all associated, so maybe I could pull off the impossible?
3 – Do I have the mental strength to put myself through this? Not convinced of that either! Haha.

After much contemplation I came up with a compromise. 2011 is the 30th Anniversary of the Escape album, so the idea was to write a smaller book concentrating on this album.
More a coffee table style book – size of a LP with lots of glossy pics and replications of memorabilia at the time etc… A more expensive collectors item with a limited number printed.

The book would cover the lead up to writing the album; the actual writing process; the recording process and then the tour that followed.
Then I wanted to carry on the idea by documenting the history of the Escape tunes since 1981 – covers, reworkings, re-releases, use of tunes in media then and today etc…
And also cover the current line-up and Arnel, JSS and Augeri with their input on those songs and singing them night after night.
And of course, the fans – their stories on how the songs have influenced them, been a part of their lives and how they continue to flock to see the band and hear these classic songs.

Quite a wide scope and in my mind a genuinely interesting read.

I could get the involvement of most associated with the record at the time, but most pivotal to my idea was the input of Steve Perry, Steve Smith and Neal, Jon and Ross.

Unfortunately Neal, Jon and Ross are not interested in any way in participating.
I am yet to hear back from reps for Steve Perry, but I remain hopeful.

Without them I could interview as many others as possible and also include quotes from past interviews (some of my own included), plus historical magazine articles of the day, plus pictures from some of the photo guys back then and whatever else I can dig up and get permission to use (band permission not needed here, just the copyright holders permission).

So my general questions to you die-hard fans are:

- Would you be interested in this concept – do you like the idea?
- How does the involvement or non-involvement of the original band members affect your thinking? An official endorsed book vs an unofficial, “unauthorized” semi-biography?
- Can you imagine a book about a particular album without the involvement fo the 4 main people?? (I couldn’t for a while, but maybe I can now…)
- If you do like – what would you like to see included?
- Honest opinions for and against appreciated.
- Any other comments?

If this idea fails to get going then I won’t get too upset about it, nor will I be upset if the overall feedback to the idea is negative.

I have other ideas for fictional writing and I’ll instead spend what time I have spare to develop those ideas.
I have 2 movie and 1 TV sitcom idea to develop – all based around music/rock n roll (hey, stick to what you know, right??!) – and all 3 ideas are something I strongly believe in and believe there is a definite market for.
In fact, all 3 ideas have titles and 2 of them are registered websites (although without any content apart from a mostly empty start page) (free CD to anyone that can find those 2 addresses!!!!).
1 idea is a little auto-biographical also….

The idea of stepping outside the site to write more has been something on my mind for 3 years now, but I don’t ever seem to have the time to do anything about it.
Basically I spend all of my time trying to stay up to date and chasing revenue to stay alive, so time to spread my creative wings has been minimal.

But perhaps putting this out there will spur me on to get cracking finally.

BTW – All/any of this has to fit around the site, so it’s not something that is going to happen quickly.

Over to you…

by **Michigan Girl** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:57 pm

Andrew wrote:After much contemplation I came up with a compromise. 2011 is the 30th Anniversary of the Escape album, so the idea was to write a smaller book concentrating on this album.
More a coffee table style book – size of a LP with lots of glossy pics and replications of memorabilia at the time etc… A more expensive collectors item with a limited number printed.

The book would cover the lead up to writing the album; the actual writing process; the recording process and then the tour that followed.
Then I wanted to carry on the idea by documenting the history of the Escape tunes since 1981 – covers, reworkings, re-releases, use of tunes in media then and today etc…

THIS^^^^sounds GREAT!!! :wink:

by **Deacon** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:58 pm

I like the idea of a book over "Escape."

I hope it goes well for you.

[btw -- how many pages are going to go to the Don't Stop Believin' loons?]

by **Glenn** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:17 pm

Do it!

I'd love to hear about the transitions the band went through with Cain replacing Rolie, and the overall change in the direction of the music.

I hope you do this...Regardless of who does or doesn't want to participate.

by **Andrew** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:36 pm

AlteredDNA gets a free CD for uncovering the domain names

by **annpea** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:52 pm

I'll buy a copy, HH spin on things will be a big plus.

by **Lula** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:53 pm

it's too bad neal, jon and ross aren't interested. not sure how it would be without the personal experiences documented, but if perry and smith got on board you don't need the others!

by **JasonD** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:16 pm

Andrew, I know I joke around & that my post are often silly, but this is me being serious: I'm intrigued by the ideas you presented; however, I think it may be a little unrealistic to shoot for a 2011 release date. That would be difficult to pull off even if you isolated yourself & spent a limited amount of time on Melodicrock, let alone your other endeavors.

Naturally, the majority of the fans would prefer to have the authorized version of what you propose; however, an unauthorized approach would be accepted just as well. I'm puzzled as to why Neal, Jon & Ross are uninterested in cooperating in this project --- especially Neal since he seemed to have the voiced the strongest disapproval in the editing & outcome of the Behind The Music documentary. Perhaps, if you were to get the ball rolling & he, as well as the others, were to see the wheels in motion, he, as well as the others may change their minds. Wishful thinking? Perhaps. But it couldn't hurt to try.

As for Steve, if he truly is about to embark on releasing a new CD, I see no reason why (with a little nudge from Cyndy & Lora perhaps) he wouldn't be interested in participating. He would benefit just as well. And besides, you are not some fly-by-night opportunist looking to “expose” him. You have a solid reputation & who better for Steve to have document this story other than someone he can trust to do it justice? Think: Bono. Everyone said Bono would NEVER participate in writing a book about himself/his life. But he did. He did when it was presented to him by someone he knew & trusted: Michka Assayas. I have to be honest with you, though, the book that Bono helped create was a book solely about Bono, not U2 -- & it still took three years to complete. You, on the other hand, are talking about a book that encompasses all past & present Journey band members (at least in part) & that would take a great deal of an investment. I'm not trying to discourage you, Andrew. I'm just trying to keep you grounded b/c I'm certain you're going to get a lot of feedback from the others that tell you to "Go For It !!! ".... & so forth.

In your post you talked about “chasing revenue.” Well--- from a monetary standpoint, I think the release of such a book would be a great benefit to you & your family. I’m sure you realize what a hot commodity such an item like that would be. Remember: The idea you are proposing is not like all the Britney Spears & Zac Efron publications that currently fill the bookstores. Those items are a dime a dozen. Yours, on the other hand, would be the very first release of its kind. Yours would be the first, Andrew.

I wish you all the best in whatever you decide.

by **WalrusOct9** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:40 pm

I agree 2011 might be a bit of a stretch given the amount of other work you do for the site, other artists, not to mention your responsibilities as a husband and parent. Maybe shoot smaller like the 33 1/3 Series of "mini-books" devoted to individual albums: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33%E2%85%93

You certainly have the qualifications to author such a thing....they havent' done many LP's in the melodic/AOR genre, but given that Escape is arguably the most successful album in that genre (along with maybe the first Boston album), it shouldn't be a tough sell from that standpoint. I understand the desire to reach for the sky, so to speak, but I don't think the subject matter is broad enough for a coffee-table sized book; given how fast Journey worked in those days, the writing, recording, and touring of Escape is barely over a year in the life of the band.

If you can get some people's involvement confirmed (esp. Perry), I think you should contact the 33 1/3 people and see if you can go that route; it'd give you a bit of a form and some guidelines as well, which might help in the initial stages. If it turned out well, the material could always be expanded into the kind of "collectors" item you're envisioning, or more realistically, be incorporated into a larger book on a larger scale about the band.

I think it's a good idea, but keep in mind, this is Escape. This isn't Sgt. Pepper or Chinese Democracy, it's not really that complicated of an album creatively. Keep it small, conceptually, until you start writing, and see there's really enough good stuff there to justify a bigger book. But Escape certainly deserves at least some kind of written companion piece, and I can't imagine anyone besides SP himself more qualified to write one.

The 33 1/3 series is published by Continuum...here is their contact page. http://www.continuumbooks.com/authors/default.aspx

by **WalrusOct9** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:46 pm

JasonD wrote:
In your post you talked about “chasing revenue.” Well--- from a monetary standpoint, I think the release of such a book would be a great benefit to you & your family. I’m sure you realize what a hot commodity such an item like that would be. Remember: The idea you are proposing is not like all the Britney Spears & Zac Efron publications that currently fill the bookstores. Those items are a dime a dozen. Yours, on the other hand, would be the very first release of its kind. Yours would be the first, Andrew.

I wish you all the best in whatever you decide.

As a follow-up to what I just posted....there might be a reason why this would be the first book. Obviously Journey is a tremendously successful band, but clearly no one has considered them to have the kind of fan base that would buy something like that, or else, believe me, it would have been written. Again with the "starting small" concept...I think you may have to prove the viability of a publication on Journey before moving up to a larger-scale project. Doing a "collectors item" is like releasing a double live LP before you've ever gone into the studio, IMO.

Granted if it was a small run of coffee-table books geared towards fanatics, I'm sure you'd sell enough of them to justify it's existence, but then it raises the argument of making something more elaborate for a small audience (probably just sold online), or something simpler and more practical that could reach more stores and a wider audience. I'm not advocating one over the other, necessarily, just stating an observation.

by **Rick** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:56 pm

WalrusOct9 wrote:
JasonD wrote:
In your post you talked about “chasing revenue.” Well--- from a monetary standpoint, I think the release of such a book would be a great benefit to you & your family. I’m sure you realize what a hot commodity such an item like that would be. Remember: The idea you are proposing is not like all the Britney Spears & Zac Efron publications that currently fill the bookstores. Those items are a dime a dozen. Yours, on the other hand, would be the very first release of its kind. Yours would be the first, Andrew.

I wish you all the best in whatever you decide.

As a follow-up to what I just posted....there might be a reason why this would be the first book. Obviously Journey is a tremendously successful band, but clearly no one has considered them to have the kind of fan base that would buy something like that, or else, believe me, it would have been written. Again with the "starting small" concept...I think you may have to prove the viability of a publication on Journey before moving up to a larger-scale project. Doing a "collectors item" is like releasing a double live LP before you've ever gone into the studio, IMO.

Granted if it was a small run of coffee-table books geared towards fanatics, I'm sure you'd sell enough of them to justify it's existence, but then it raises the argument of making something more elaborate for a small audience (probably just sold online), or something simpler and more practical that could reach more stores and a wider audience. I'm not advocating one over the other, necessarily, just stating an observation.

Good thinking, but I'm with the idea of "sticking your toe in the water" to see if it's got legs. You can't start big and go small. Start small and then go big, if that's possible.

by **perryswoman** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:04 pm

andrew there is also a guy on Pineda's website that is writing a very similar book as we speak. He used to be on the Journey forum but is not there anymore and is on Pineda's and is he from the US although I forgot his name. Look into this because lord knows you don't want two seperate entities working on the same project. Seems like it might be Jounrneyman but not sure.

by **annpea** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:34 pm

perryswoman wrote:andrew there is also a guy on Pineda's website that is writing a very similar book as we speak. He used to be on the Journey forum but is not there anymore and is on Pineda's and is he from the US although I forgot his name. Look into this because lord knows you don't want two seperate entities working on the same project. Seems like it might be Jounrneyman but not sure.

I think the difference with this situation is Andrew has the connections that will allow him to produce a more creditable piece of work.

by **Andrew** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:43 pm

annpea wrote:
perryswoman wrote:andrew there is also a guy on Pineda's website that is writing a very similar book as we speak. He used to be on the Journey forum but is not there anymore and is on Pineda's and is he from the US although I forgot his name. Look into this because lord knows you don't want two seperate entities working on the same project. Seems like it might be Jounrneyman but not sure.
I think the difference with this situation is Andrew has the connections that will allow him to produce a more creditable piece of work.

I did see some comments about that - it seemed more from a fan perspective. And I have chosen not to write the whole story at this time as I doubt I could get co-operation on the stickier points of the band's history.

So for the idea on the Escape LP.

Lots of good feedback so far - I'll comment more tomorrow when there has been some more discussion and I can then offer some return thoughts without swaying anyone else that is yet to post.

by **moangel58** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:49 pm

Do it Andrew, sounds great. As for the guys in the band, you think if one says yes and talks to the others they would do it then? If so, let me know what you think.

by **Arianddu** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:30 pm

Brilliant idea! Would you consider expanding it to include the tour for the album? It would be interesting to get the perspective of the people behind the scenes on the tour too - the roadies, the 'guys trouble shooting back in the office', publicity, etc. How they saw the change in the group with Rollie gone and Cain in, how the crowd reacted to the new music, at the start of the tour compared to the end, that sort of thing.

by *Laura » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:51 pm

The Escape book is a great idea. Doesn't matter if it's gonna be officially endorsed or not, the important thing is the accuracy of the content.

I'm not surprised that the band is not interested in this...But maybe it's for the better. With all those gag orders laying around and the fact that they are certainly biased, you would get an incomplete or even distorted story about how things went. The band members have their own views about that era and I wouldn't be too sure they would be able to remain objective.

If you intend to reflect the way Escape was born perhaps you could get a truly objective insight from the people who worked on the album. Interviews with Kevin Elson and Mike Stone. As producers, I'm sure they would both have a lot to say about the songs and the band's interaction as well. Maybe they can even provide never seen before pictures from their personal collections.
Then maybe you could get in touch with the rest of the personnel that was directly involved in the making of Escape, like Bob Ludwig and Wally Buck.
And of course, Herbie would add a ton of Jalapeno sauce to the story. lol

What about the Atari 2600 game? Maybe you could contact Data Age, the ones who created the game...well, if they are still around. I have no clue. But that's a fun trivia bit and it would be interesting to know how was the deal put together.

The fans' stories are always wonderful to read, so that chapter would a great addition. I know from my own experience that the Fans chapter from my SP book got the greatest feedback. Nothing is more genuine in a rock story than the voice of the audience.

If you're going to be satisfied with the results of this project (if you decide to do it), then maybe you can continue and put together a Frontiers book and why not a Captured book as well - stories from the road maybe?

The best of luck to you with all the projects!

by **Andrew** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:46 pm

Arianddu wrote:Brilliant idea! Would you consider expanding it to include the tour for the album? It would be interesting to get the perspective of the people behind the scenes on the tour too - the roadies, the 'guys trouble shooting back in the office', publicity, etc. How they saw the change in the group with Rollie gone and Cain in, how the crowd reacted to the new music, at the start of the tour compared to the end, that sort of thing.

That's what I said I would do

by **trekman** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:23 pm

I think its a real nice idea Andrew. BUT...will all the time and work involved be worth it? Do you think you will really see much revenue. Or can you break even, with all you invest? A lot will be out of your pocket? Im sure you must have got an ok from the boss :wink:

to go into such a venture.

And I dont understand why Neal, Jon and Ross wouldnt want to tell their part of all just to make sure the facts are right and like they think it should be. Im confused sometimes with how and why they do some of the strange things concerning the band. It makes me wonder IF they really put the band first or their personal interests. :roll:

AlteredDNA gets a free CD for uncovering the domain names Very Happy

Are you gonna tell us? Or keep it a state secret?

by **WalrusOct9** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:31 pm

Arianddu wrote:Brilliant idea! Would you consider expanding it to include the tour for the album? It would be interesting to get the perspective of the people behind the scenes on the tour too - the roadies, the 'guys trouble shooting back in the office', publicity, etc. How they saw the change in the group with Rollie gone and Cain in, how the crowd reacted to the new music, at the start of the tour compared to the end, that sort of thing.

And finally reveal how the choruses of those songs had like, 4 Steve Perrys singing, even tho there was only one of him onstage. :lol:

by **Ehwmatt** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:32 pm

It sounds like an awesome idea, although I do agree 2011 sounds like a tough deadline to meet, given the reticence of possible sources.

It's also really nice of Neal, Jon, and Ross to not want to help you after all you've done for them in recent years.

by **strangegrey** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:15 pm

Andrew...a truly inspired and ambitious idea.

I actually like the more encompassing book of Journey's career. Someone needs to tell a very objective, straight forward, no pulled punches retrospective on this band. The good, the bad, the ugly, the despicable. You are one of the few people that could do it objectively....(Fuck, can you imagine me writing it? Chapter one would be "Golden Fucking Gate Douchebags" Chapter 12 would be "Ouch, My Nose!" Chapter 22 would be "Botox" LOL )

Regardless, unless you have a gag order yourself (and the way those things fly out of Nomota, who knows!

OK, just kidding!

)...anyway, you're in a position to uncover some dirt, provided some extremely investigative journalism.

Either way, you might be underestimating just how much work/research/drafting goes into book production. 2011 might be extremely ambitious....too ambitious. Having written a dreadfully large thesis in a 6 month period, with a wealth of research information at my fingertips....I know. I basically stopped doing everything except eating and shitting. I never saw my wife or kids, except for them to tell me it was time to take a shower.... :oops:

In your case, you might have the opposite problem...a lack of ready information. It'll require alot more digging...

But regardless, good luck.

---------------

Now having said that, I'm not a glass is half empty or full kinda guy. I'm a 'glass is fucking cracked and laced with rattlesnake venom, so don't even fucking drink, you'll die' type of person.....and I keep thinking back to the Herbie interviews, how no good deed goes unpunished.

Touching Journey from a literary perspective, might just be a third rail (touch it you die). One can only imagine what bad shit might come from writing about these guys.....so whatever you decide to do, PLEASE be careful...

by **perryswoman** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:57 pm

annpea wrote:
perryswoman wrote:andrew there is also a guy on Pineda's website that is writing a very similar book as we speak. He used to be on the Journey forum but is not there anymore and is on Pineda's and is he from the US although I forgot his name. Look into this because lord knows you don't want two seperate entities working on the same project. Seems like it might be Jounrneyman but not sure.
I think the difference with this situation is Andrew has the connections that will allow him to produce a more creditable piece of work.

Journeyman supposedly has those connections too.

by **Michigan Girl** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:00 am

Andrew wrote:AlteredDNA gets a free CD for uncovering the domain names

Not fair...He's a PRO!!! :wink:

by **fredinator** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:01 am

I know I would buy a book from you re: Escape. Maybe you would be able to acquire some pics too that we haven't seen before... Sounds like a great idea and if you need any help with typing a draft, let me know--I'm a pretty good, accurate and trustworthy typist...

Andrew, after you do this book, perhaps you could put on your list a book just about Neal... Maybe he would go for that after he sees what you can do with the Escape era book. A Neal book would be very, very interesting and I thought I read somewhere that at one time he was thinking of doing a book himself but I wonder how he has the time for it... He has done/played so many different things over 40 years, I guess it is... Anyway, awesome ideas you have there.

by **DrFU** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:06 am

Having written 5 books (academic stuff that no one reads except people in my field and my mother

), I have to agree with those folks who have said that 2011 is probably not a realistic timeline. You might get it written in 18 months, but it probably would take another year to 18 months for the publication process, esp. if it is heavy on photos.

I'd suggest finding the most successful examples of what you want to do (unauthorized books about performers, coffee table books, etc.) and talk to those authors and their publishers to get their suggestions. Acquisitions editors for publishers are amazing sources of information; they know what sells; they know what mistakes other people have made; they know all the ins and outs about getting permissions for all the things you'd want to use-- old photos, old interviews, etc.

And of course I'd buy the book; sounds really cool to me!

by **AlteredDNA** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:50 am

Michigan Girl wrote:
Andrew wrote:AlteredDNA gets a free CD for uncovering the domain names

Not fair...He's a PRO!!!

Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful...

by **bluejeangirl76** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:05 am

Andrew wrote:So my general questions to you die-hard fans are:

- Would you be interested in this concept – do you like the idea?
- How does the involvement or non-involvement of the original band members affect your thinking? An official endorsed book vs an unofficial, “unauthorized” semi-biography?
- Can you imagine a book about a particular album without the involvement fo the 4 main people?? (I couldn’t for a while, but maybe I can now…)
- If you do like – what would you like to see included?

It's an interesting concept to be sure, and personally, non-involvement of band members doesn't bother me if the facts are there and present in a credible way. I doubt you'll have a problem in that area, Drew.

It's disappointing to see the members want no involvement though. It was their biggest album which included what turned out later to be one of the biggest songs ever, and the idea that a journalist wishes to create a project to celebrate it is pretty dang cool.

A chapter on the DSB phenomenon alone is almost mandatory, given what's transpired with that tune over the last 4-5 years. Like anyone alive in 1981 (in America in particular), that album was part of my life. I literally went from a crib to a big girl bed with Journey (among many others of course) as the background music, :lol:

and I remember, even at 5 years old, how big that music was. To see a book (another favorite pasttime - reading!) devoted to this would be aweseome.

by **ebake02** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:27 am

This sounds like a really cool idea! I've wondered what it would be like to be a fly on the wall during something like that.

by **Don** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:06 am

perryswoman wrote:
annpea wrote:
perryswoman wrote:andrew there is also a guy on Pineda's website that is writing a very similar book as we speak. He used to be on the Journey forum but is not there anymore and is on Pineda's and is he from the US although I forgot his name. Look into this because lord knows you don't want two seperate entities working on the same project. Seems like it might be Jounrneyman but not sure.
I think the difference with this situation is Andrew has the connections that will allow him to produce a more creditable piece of work.

Journeyman supposedly has those connections too.

He was also banned from the Official Journey site before the new one was created. His connections didn't seem to work that time. I don't know him personally and he could be the nicest guy in the world but getting the hammer dropped on you from an official fan site can't be spun positively, no matter what the circumstances are.

MR

Project2011...or...Plan B

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