President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Rick]

I'm gonna start going up to newly pregnant pro-choice women and kicking them as hard as I can in the stomach repeatedly. If it isn't murder when they do it, then it isn't when I do it.

Banning abortion isn't going to stop abortions. That's a proven fact. The problem is, the people that do decide to terminate will do it on the black market, with no enforced guidelines and much less professional care. That's what scares me. I'm for leaving it the way it is. I hate it, but it's the better option.

Yeah Rick, and laws against drunk driving aren't going to stop people from driving drunk. So we might as well get rid of the law huh?

Having a law against drunk driving helps tremendously. I'm sure there are a lot fewer people driving drunk as a result, and lives are saved. However, just because there's a law against drunk driving doesn't send anybody to the black market to get their body operated on by an undereducated person using unsterilized utensils. That is what will happen, because it already has.

[Rick]

I'm gonna start going up to newly pregnant pro-choice women and kicking them as hard as I can in the stomach repeatedly. If it isn't murder when they do it, then it isn't when I do it.

Banning abortion isn't going to stop abortions. That's a proven fact. The problem is, the people that do decide to terminate will do it on the black market, with no enforced guidelines and much less professional care. That's what scares me. I'm for leaving it the way it is. I hate it, but it's the better option.

Rick, do you believe that if this govt health care bill passes that abortions should be an included benefit?

If it's medically necessary, yes. If it's used because two people made a mistake, no.

Obamas' stance, in his own words.."“Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old,” he said. “I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.

And? Why do we teach children not to have sex? Because a baby at the wrong time in your life can destroy any plans for the future that you've ever made. I'd say that's a bit of a punishment. As much as you would like to believe he was, he's absolutely not saying that babies in general are punishment.

[Rick]

FF and RWF should love this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03vhWWFcFXE

[RedWingFan]

Banning abortion isn't going to stop abortions. That's a proven fact. The problem is, the people that do decide to terminate will do it on the black market, with no enforced guidelines and much less professional care. That's what scares me. I'm for leaving it the way it is. I hate it, but it's the better option.

Yeah Rick, and laws against drunk driving aren't going to stop people from driving drunk. So we might as well get rid of the law huh?

Having a law against drunk driving helps tremendously. I'm sure there are a lot fewer people driving drunk as a result, and lives are saved. However, just because there's a law against drunk driving doesn't send anybody to the black market to get their body operated on by an undereducated person using unsterilized utensils. That is what will happen, because it already has.

Love how you don't even acknowledge a baby being ripped apart, limb from limb! Killing a baby is wrong. especially when the vast majority are simply killed for convenience. I suppose you think we should also legalize heroin so addicts will be less likely to come in contact with dirty needles? So what if millions more become addicted and lives ruined. If thousands of innocent babies could be spared at the cost of a few women stupid enough to let someone shove a wire hanger inside them instead of making a visit to an adoption center, sounds fair enough to me.

[Rick]

Banning abortion isn't going to stop abortions. That's a proven fact. The problem is, the people that do decide to terminate will do it on the black market, with no enforced guidelines and much less professional care. That's what scares me. I'm for leaving it the way it is. I hate it, but it's the better option.

Yeah Rick, and laws against drunk driving aren't going to stop people from driving drunk. So we might as well get rid of the law huh?

Having a law against drunk driving helps tremendously. I'm sure there are a lot fewer people driving drunk as a result, and lives are saved. However, just because there's a law against drunk driving doesn't send anybody to the black market to get their body operated on by an undereducated person using unsterilized utensils. That is what will happen, because it already has.

Love how you don't even acknowledge a baby being ripped apart, limb from limb! Killing a baby is wrong. especially when the vast majority are simply killed for convenience. I suppose you think we should also legalize heroin so addicts will be less likely to come in contact with dirty needles? So what if millions more become addicted and lives ruined. If thousands of innocent babies could be spared at the cost of a few women stupid enough to let someone shove a wire hanger inside them instead of making a visit to an adoption center, sounds fair enough to me.

I DON'T ADVOCATE ABORTION! I am, however, reluctantly pro choice, for the reasons I've previously listed. The rest of the shit you spewed in this post doesn't even dignify a response.

[Lula]

it is outrageous the way some lump being pro choice in with advocating for abortion, drunk driving and legalizing heroin. being pro choice does not equal being pro abortion. as a pro choice woman i would not abort a pregnancy. abortion is legal in this country- period. i believe we have the right to make our own personal choices regarding our bodies.

[treetopovskaya]

being pro-choice & advocating abortion goes hand 'n hand imo.

[RedWingFan]

it is outrageous the way some lump being pro choice in with advocating for abortion, drunk driving and legalizing heroin. being pro choice does not equal being pro abortion. as a pro choice woman i would not abort a pregnancy.

How about we try another one Lula?

I don't think Michael Vick should have spent one second in jail! I personally am against dog-fighting. But it's not my place to tell someone else what to do with THEIR dogs. So what if Vick and thousands of others fight, electrocute or hang their dogs? Vick built a big fence and others do it behind closed doors so we don't have to see it. It's none of our business.

Again, I'm not pro-dogfighting. But being pro-dogfighting does not equal being a proponent for dog killing.

[Rick]

it is outrageous the way some lump being pro choice in with advocating for abortion, drunk driving and legalizing heroin. being pro choice does not equal being pro abortion. as a pro choice woman i would not abort a pregnancy.

How about we try another one Lula?

I don't think Michael Vick should have spent one second in jail! I personally am against dog-fighting. But it's not my place to tell someone else what to do with THEIR dogs. So what if Vick and thousands of others fight, electrocute or hang their dogs? Vick built a big fence and others do it behind closed doors so we don't have to see it. It's none of our business.

Again, I'm not pro-dogfighting. But being pro-dogfighting does not equal being a proponent for dog killing.

I didn't think you could do it, but you did. This post is worse than the last one.

[Lula]

there is no sense in what rwf says. we've had these discussions more times than i care to remember. tree equates pro choice with pro abortion. i can't even fathom these thoughts.

[donnaplease]

it is outrageous the way some lump being pro choice in with advocating for abortion, drunk driving and legalizing heroin. being pro choice does not equal being pro abortion. as a pro choice woman i would not abort a pregnancy.

How about we try another one Lula?

I don't think Michael Vick should have spent one second in jail! I personally am against dog-fighting. But it's not my place to tell someone else what to do with THEIR dogs. So what if Vick and thousands of others fight, electrocute or hang their dogs? Vick built a big fence and others do it behind closed doors so we don't have to see it. It's none of our business.

Again, I'm not pro-dogfighting. But being pro-dogfighting does not equal being a proponent for dog killing.

I didn't think you could do it, but you did. This post is worse than the last one.

Dammit! I gotta go to work now, and just when this is getting good!

Actually, Rick, RWF makes somewhat of a compelling argument with his analogy. I understand Lula's viewpoint, and don't necessarily disagree with it, but his comparison in relation to the topic of 'choice' is interesting to say the least. IDK. Just like everything else, it's not so black & white as some people (on both ends of the spectrum) try to make it seem.

I've actually been reading some of the HR3200 bill the past few days, and from what I've seen the language of the bill is so generic that it's very difficult to determine exactly how far the government plans to go with their control over people's lives. I think both sides are taking it to extremes to try to persuade folks to agree with them, and until there is more concrete evidence to support NOT creating the problems that some suggest, I'm going to assume the worst. I just don't trust BO to do the right thing.

[RedWingFan]

it is outrageous the way some lump being pro choice in with advocating for abortion, drunk driving and legalizing heroin. being pro choice does not equal being pro abortion. as a pro choice woman i would not abort a pregnancy.

How about we try another one Lula?

I don't think Michael Vick should have spent one second in jail! I personally am against dog-fighting. But it's not my place to tell someone else what to do with THEIR dogs. So what if Vick and thousands of others fight, electrocute or hang their dogs? Vick built a big fence and others do it behind closed doors so we don't have to see it. It's none of our business.

Again, I'm not pro-dogfighting. But being pro-dogfighting does not equal being a proponent for dog killing.

I didn't think you could do it, but you did. This post is worse than the last one.

Worse? Why, cause you can't answer the question to sufficiently defend your position that allows the legal killing of babies? I'm consistent in my views. Dog fighting is wrong and should be illegal. Slavery was wrong and was outlawed. Abortion is wrong and should be illegal. You folks are the ones making exceptions with whatever excuses you like to claim. If that makes you uncomfortable....well it should!!!

[Saint John]

There's really no difference in killing an 8 or 10 week old fetus and walking up to your 5 year old son/daughter and sticking a fuckin' ice pick in his/her temple. They're exactly equal in terms of ignorance, brutality, stupidity and would only be condoned and/or carried out by people with a very mentally ill thought process.

[Rick]

it is outrageous the way some lump being pro choice in with advocating for abortion, drunk driving and legalizing heroin. being pro choice does not equal being pro abortion. as a pro choice woman i would not abort a pregnancy.

How about we try another one Lula?

I don't think Michael Vick should have spent one second in jail! I personally am against dog-fighting. But it's not my place to tell someone else what to do with THEIR dogs. So what if Vick and thousands of others fight, electrocute or hang their dogs? Vick built a big fence and others do it behind closed doors so we don't have to see it. It's none of our business.

Again, I'm not pro-dogfighting. But being pro-dogfighting does not equal being a proponent for dog killing.

I didn't think you could do it, but you did. This post is worse than the last one.

Worse? Why, cause you can't answer the question to sufficiently defend your position that allows the legal killing of babies? I'm consistent in my views. Dog fighting is wrong and should be illegal. Slavery was wrong and was outlawed. Abortion is wrong and should be illegal. You folks are the ones making exceptions with whatever excuses you like to claim. If that makes you uncomfortable....well it should!!!

I've stated my exact position on it. I don't know what more you want me to say.

If the law, as it stands, makes you so uncomfortable, work on changing it. Become a Lobbyist, call your Representatives, write your Congressmen.

[JH'sTXfan]

There's really no difference in killing an 8 or 10 week old fetus and walking up to your 5 year old son/daughter and sticking a fuckin' ice pick in his/her temple. They're exactly equal in terms of ignorance, brutality, stupidity and would only be condoned and/or carried out by people with a very mentally ill thought process.

I agree with you. My body, my choice? It's not just the woman's body, it's the baby's body also.

[treetopovskaya]

There's really no difference in killing an 8 or 10 week old fetus and walking up to your 5 year old son/daughter and sticking a fuckin' ice pick in his/her temple. They're exactly equal in terms of ignorance, brutality, stupidity and would only be condoned and/or carried out by people with a very mentally ill thought process.

I agree with you. My body, my choice? It's not just the woman's body, it's the baby's body also.

amen. }:C)

[Saint John]

it's the baby's body also.

Perfectly put. Sorta common sense to you and me, but others can't seem to grasp such a simple and humane concept. Now if we were talking about a serial killer they'd be diving on the fucking electric chair to save a scumbag that raped and killed 32 women. Comical at best.

[Lula]

There's really no difference in killing an 8 or 10 week old fetus and walking up to your 5 year old son/daughter and sticking a fuckin' ice pick in his/her temple. They're exactly equal in terms of ignorance, brutality, stupidity and would only be condoned and/or carried out by people with a very mentally ill thought process.

I agree with you. My body, my choice? It's not just the woman's body, it's the baby's body also.

wow, i can't even begin to get my mind around this way of thinking. i wanted both of my boys, regardless of potential defects. i would NEVER presume to make a personal choice for someone else. there really is a big difference between a 10 week old fetus and a 5 year old child. i don't get this one or the kicking a pro choice pregnant woman in the stomach because you're pro life.

[Saint John]

there really is a big difference between a 10 week old fetus and a 5 year old child.

Yeah...about 540 weeks.

[JH'sTXfan]

there really is a big difference between a 10 week old fetus and a 5 year old child.

Yeah...about 540 weeks.

The term "fetus" is depersonalizing a human baby to make it easier to justify abortion. It is a baby.

[treetopovskaya]

what if someone took their dog/cat in to have an "abortion"? i think some would be more upset over cute little puppies/kittens being terminated.

[RedWingFan]

Worse? Why, cause you can't answer the question to sufficiently defend your position that allows the legal killing of babies? I'm consistent in my views. Dog fighting is wrong and should be illegal. Slavery was wrong and was outlawed. Abortion is wrong and should be illegal. You folks are the ones making exceptions with whatever excuses you like to claim. If that makes you uncomfortable....well it should!!!

I've stated my exact position on it. I don't know what more you want me to say.

If the law, as it stands, makes you so uncomfortable, work on changing it. Become a Lobbyist, call your Representatives, write your Congressmen.

Dude, you're kidding right? In 1973, 5 judges threw out the American peoples right to vote on the subject by visualizing a "right to privacy" that doesn't exist in the U.S. Constitution. Very much in the same way these liberal activist judges can look at the words of the 2nd amendments and not see the right to gun ownership. The subverting of the Constitution and bastardization of this country's laws are one of the biggest things about your party that makes me "uncomfortable".

[Rick]

Worse? Why, cause you can't answer the question to sufficiently defend your position that allows the legal killing of babies? I'm consistent in my views. Dog fighting is wrong and should be illegal. Slavery was wrong and was outlawed. Abortion is wrong and should be illegal. You folks are the ones making exceptions with whatever excuses you like to claim. If that makes you uncomfortable....well it should!!!

I've stated my exact position on it. I don't know what more you want me to say.

If the law, as it stands, makes you so uncomfortable, work on changing it. Become a Lobbyist, call your Representatives, write your Congressmen.

Dude, you're kidding right? In 1973, 5 judges threw out the American peoples right to vote on the subject by visualizing a "right to privacy" that doesn't exist in the U.S. Constitution. Very much in the same way these liberal activist judges can look at the words of the 2nd amendments and not see the right to gun ownership. The subverting of the Constitution and bastardization of this country's laws are one of the biggest things about your party that makes me "uncomfortable".

Just giving up then? Here, I'll help. Start working on getting some conservative judges elected first, then you can start working on step two. It'll give you something to do so you're not so focused on your comfort level with the Democratic party.

Dude, I do respect your opinion, certainly. Some of your comparisons leave me shaking my head though.

[treetopovskaya]

There's really no difference in killing an 8 or 10 week old fetus and walking up to your 5 year old son/daughter and sticking a fuckin' ice pick in his/her temple. They're exactly equal in terms of ignorance, brutality, stupidity and would only be condoned and/or carried out by people with a very mentally ill thought process.

I agree with you. My body, my choice? It's not just the woman's body, it's the baby's body also.

wow, i can't even begin to get my mind around this way of thinking. i wanted both of my boys, regardless of potential defects. i would NEVER presume to make a personal choice for someone else. there really is a big difference between a 10 week old fetus and a 5 year old child. i don't get this one or the kicking a pro choice pregnant woman in the stomach because you're pro life.

i believe dan was trying to point out that if an unborn baby isn't a BABY then why is it when a pregnant women is murdered her killer is charged with 2 counts?

[Saint John]

There's really no difference in killing an 8 or 10 week old fetus and walking up to your 5 year old son/daughter and sticking a fuckin' ice pick in his/her temple. They're exactly equal in terms of ignorance, brutality, stupidity and would only be condoned and/or carried out by people with a very mentally ill thought process.

I agree with you. My body, my choice? It's not just the woman's body, it's the baby's body also.

wow, i can't even begin to get my mind around this way of thinking. i wanted both of my boys, regardless of potential defects. i would NEVER presume to make a personal choice for someone else. there really is a big difference between a 10 week old fetus and a 5 year old child. i don't get this one or the kicking a pro choice pregnant woman in the stomach because you're pro life.

i believe dan was trying to point out that if an unborn baby isn't a BABY then why is it when a pregnant women is murdered her killer is charged with 2 counts?

Exactly, Wendy. You seem to get it.

[JH'sTXfan]

There's really no difference in killing an 8 or 10 week old fetus and walking up to your 5 year old son/daughter and sticking a fuckin' ice pick in his/her temple. They're exactly equal in terms of ignorance, brutality, stupidity and would only be condoned and/or carried out by people with a very mentally ill thought process.

I agree with you. My body, my choice? It's not just the woman's body, it's the baby's body also.

wow, i can't even begin to get my mind around this way of thinking. i wanted both of my boys, regardless of potential defects. i would NEVER presume to make a personal choice for someone else. there really is a big difference between a 10 week old fetus and a 5 year old child. i don't get this one or the kicking a pro choice pregnant woman in the stomach because you're pro life.

i believe dan was trying to point out that if an unborn baby isn't a BABY then why is it when a pregnant women is murdered her killer is charged with 2 counts?

Click heart to see the beating heart of a 9 week human "fetus".

http://www.geocities.com/pregnancyhelpn ... pment.html

[Rick]

There's really no difference in killing an 8 or 10 week old fetus and walking up to your 5 year old son/daughter and sticking a fuckin' ice pick in his/her temple. They're exactly equal in terms of ignorance, brutality, stupidity and would only be condoned and/or carried out by people with a very mentally ill thought process.

I agree with you. My body, my choice? It's not just the woman's body, it's the baby's body also.

wow, i can't even begin to get my mind around this way of thinking. i wanted both of my boys, regardless of potential defects. i would NEVER presume to make a personal choice for someone else. there really is a big difference between a 10 week old fetus and a 5 year old child. i don't get this one or the kicking a pro choice pregnant woman in the stomach because you're pro life.

i believe dan was trying to point out that if an unborn baby isn't a BABY then why is it when a pregnant women is murdered her killer is charged with 2 counts?

That's one hell of a great point in this discussion. I'm giving you props on that one.

[Lula]

there is no sense in continuing this. i consider an unborn baby, a fetus at any stage, in my body to be a blessing. i was overjoyed hearing and seeing every little bit. the law is what it is. i don't know what stage a "fetus" is considered a "baby" and can be seen as a victim of murder under various state laws. i don't advocate abortion. i would have adopted if i had chosen to be a parent and did not have wyatt. i'm not going to debate the act of abortion. i will continue to support a woman's right to choose. if you are unable to see the difference, oh well.

[treetopovskaya]

i'll take the baby's side every time... & more people should including the mother... most importantly the mother... there is always adoption. i can imagine there are a lot of women regretting choices they made. 9 months isn't that long & they could give someone else the gift of having a child.

people are selfish.

[JasonD]

Okay, so I know nobody's going to respond to this post b/c every time I jump on this board with some attempt at a serious discussion it goes totallly unnoticed & so I revert right back to talking about something gay until it draws out the usual "Friga" jokes -------------- but anyway:



1. How do all you pro-lifers feel about abortion in cases of rape, incest or if the mother's health is such that her life would be in danger if she should carry a full-term baby?


2. If you say "The baby should be born regardless," are you prepared to give more of your tax dollars to support that child through welfare, especially in the case of rape or incest where it's highly unlikely that the mother will keep the baby?


3. If you say "The baby should be born regardless," are you prepared to give more of your tax dollars to provide counseling to that mother who's obviously going to need it if she's forced to carry a baby to term that was a result of rape or incest? Nine months is a LONG time to have that constant reminder shoved in your face everyday. It's bound to take it's toll on the mother.


4. If you say "The baby should be born regardless," are you prepared to give more of your tax dollars to provide food, housing, clothing, medical care & so forth for the mother if she's an unwed teen & her parents disown her, kick her out & she has no where to go now that she has revealed to them she's pregnant?


5. Are any of you who say "The baby should be born regardless" taking that stand for religious reasons? (read: Thy shalt not kill)