Journey/Early Show Date Changed - Now Thursday 9/3

[Rick]

There's just a soured clump of people that want him to fail, and that's fucked up.

Brywool where have you been????


Rick and I am not sour or fucked up.....just so ya know and I love you too!

I wasn't referring to you. But I'd bet every dollar in my wallet that not one person in the audience said "Hey, did you hear that? He said sheep instead of cheap. Man, he needs coaching."

[Since 78]

Long time reader, infrequent poster here..

Is it just me, or has Arnel lost all of his "dialectic coaching" and letting his accent slip back in BAD?
Example..."..a smeh of wine and sheep perfoom"

Yes, Its just you.

I guess I don't count.....Hey 78

Yes, Portland. I can count on you to agree with any negative comment about Arnel.

[RocknRoll]

Long time reader, infrequent poster here..

Is it just me, or has Arnel lost all of his "dialectic coaching" and letting his accent slip back in BAD?
Example..."..a smeh of wine and sheep perfoom"

Yes, Its just you.

He says "smell", but I do hear "sheep". But you have to be actively listening for mistakes, otherwise it sounds fine. There's just a soured clump of people that want him to fail, and that's fucked up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MC9TZ8ydeE They start the song at about 2:10.

My opinion is even with all the confidence he displays this year, AP might still get a slight case of nerves that effect his diction. I noticed when he messed up on the timing of SW in the early European tours he pronounced confusion correctly. I think he was been working hard on getting his pronunciation right. All in all, his diction has improved dramatically, as evidenced in the regular live shows which have been fantastic.

[portland]

Long time reader, infrequent poster here..

Is it just me, or has Arnel lost all of his "dialectic coaching" and letting his accent slip back in BAD?
Example..."..a smeh of wine and sheep perfoom"

Yes, Its just you.

I guess I don't count.....Hey 78

Yes, Portland. I can count on you to agree with any negative comment about Arnel.

I think I gave him a compliment the other day you must have missed it

[mdaemon]

There's just a soured clump of people that want him to fail, and that's fucked up.

Brywool where have you been????


Rick and I am not sour or fucked up.....just so ya know and I love you too!

I wasn't referring to you. But I'd bet every dollar in my wallet that not one person in the audience said "Hey, did you hear that? He said sheep instead of cheap. Man, he needs coaching."

Arnel could be right though; maybe there was a smelly sheep among the audience

[Since 78]

Long time reader, infrequent poster here..

Is it just me, or has Arnel lost all of his "dialectic coaching" and letting his accent slip back in BAD?
Example..."..a smeh of wine and sheep perfoom"

Yes, Its just you.

I guess I don't count.....Hey 78

Yes, Portland. I can count on you to agree with any negative comment about Arnel.

I think I gave him a compliment the other day you must have missed it

Apparently.

[RoyalOakRoadie]

I didn't bash Arnel, I just mentioned his diction slipping. You Arnel nut-swingers jumped on me like I called your mothers crack whores, lol.

I like Arnel's voice. Do I think he was a better choice than JSS? Heck no. I do think he is a talented man with a great voice though.

Sheesh, it was an observation, relax.

[Jana]

Wait. Brywool hasn't posted here in ages, all throughout this concert tour, and he's a big Journey supporter and Arnel supporter, and he comes on and quotes Rick's statement and says nothing and disappears. I guess he was making a point about why he left. Come back, Brywool, we pinheads and Nealers need you. :lol

[Michigan Girl]

I didn't bash Arnel, I just mentioned his diction slipping. You Arnel nut-swingers jumped on me like I called your mothers crack whores, lol.

I like Arnel's voice. Do I think he was a better choice than JSS? Heck no. I do think he is a talented man with a great voice though.

Sheesh, it was an observation, relax.

No shit!!!

G~boy....we NEED some balance!!!

[portland]

I didn't bash Arnel, I just mentioned his diction slipping. You Arnel nut-swingers jumped on me like I called your mothers crack whores, lol.

I like Arnel's voice. Do I think he was a better choice than JSS? Heck no. I do think he is a talented man with a great voice though.

Sheesh, it was an observation, relax.

No shit!!!

Hey MG!!! Glad to see you.....the are a bit touchy up here these days

[RocknRoll]

I didn't bash Arnel, I just mentioned his diction slipping. You Arnel nut-swingers jumped on me like I called your mothers crack whores, lol.

I like Arnel's voice. Do I think he was a better choice than JSS? Heck no. I do think he is a talented man with a great voice though.

Sheesh, it was an observation, relax.

No big deal for me. It was an accurate observation on "sheep" although I didn't hear it untill you pointed it out.

BTW: I wish JSS w/TSO or anybody for that matter would get back to the midwest.

[Michigan Girl]

There's just a soured clump of people that want him to fail, and that's fucked up.

Brywool where have you been????


Rick and I am not sour or fucked up.....just so ya know and I love you too!

I wasn't referring to you. But I'd bet every dollar in my wallet that not one person in the audience said "Hey, did you hear that? He said sheep instead of cheap. Man, he needs coaching."

Arnel could be right though; maybe there was a smelly sheep among the audience

LMAO!!!
He would be right if he came here for sure!!!

[Since 78]

I didn't bash Arnel, I just mentioned his diction slipping. You Arnel nut-swingers jumped on me like I called your mothers crack whores, lol.

I like Arnel's voice. Do I think he was a better choice than JSS? Heck no. I do think he is a talented man with a great voice though.

Sheesh, it was an observation, relax.

No shit!!!

Hey MG!!! Glad to see you.....the are a bit touchy up here these days

Up here???

[RocknRoll]

There's just a soured clump of people that want him to fail, and that's fucked up.

Brywool where have you been????


Rick and I am not sour or fucked up.....just so ya know and I love you too!

I wasn't referring to you. But I'd bet every dollar in my wallet that not one person in the audience said "Hey, did you hear that? He said sheep instead of cheap. Man, he needs coaching."

Arnel could be right though; maybe there was a smelly sheep among the audience

LMAO!!!
He would be right if he came here for sure!!!

[Rick]

I didn't bash Arnel, I just mentioned his diction slipping. You Arnel nut-swingers jumped on me like I called your mothers crack whores, lol.

I like Arnel's voice. Do I think he was a better choice than JSS? Heck no. I do think he is a talented man with a great voice though.

Sheesh, it was an observation, relax.

No big deal for me. It was an accurate observation on "sheep" although I didn't hear it untill you pointed it out.

BTW: I wish JSS w/TSO or anybody for that matter would get back to the midwest.

Nobody heard it except the people that wanted to.

[portland]

I didn't bash Arnel, I just mentioned his diction slipping. You Arnel nut-swingers jumped on me like I called your mothers crack whores, lol.

I like Arnel's voice. Do I think he was a better choice than JSS? Heck no. I do think he is a talented man with a great voice though.

Sheesh, it was an observation, relax.

No shit!!!

Hey MG!!! Glad to see you.....the are a bit touchy up here these days

Up here???

as opposed to down there where it's just nuts most of the time

[Enigma869]

I didn't bash Arnel, I just mentioned his diction slipping. You Arnel nut-swingers jumped on me like I called your mothers crack whores, lol.

I like Arnel's voice. Do I think he was a better choice than JSS? Heck no. I do think he is a talented man with a great voice though.

Sheesh, it was an observation, relax.

I think you're spot on, actually. Here's the deal...Everytime Journey rolls out a "new lead singer", the lines are drawn in the sand, within a week. There is always a group who will be super critical of ANYTHING the "new" guy does. Then there is the other group who would endorse Kermit the Frog becoming the lead singer of Journey, because they simply don't have the backbone to EVER disagree with ANYTHING that "Journey" does. The final group (and it's the group I consider myself a part of) is mostly apathetic. I grew up listening to this music and will ALWAYS be connected to it. That said, what the guys calling themselves "Journey" are doing in 2009 isn't that relevant to me. That ship sailed many years ago and that moment in time will be forever buried somewhere back in 1983. It was a magical time, but that magical time is LONG GONE! I applaud Neal for still having a passion for playing music (even though the music of Journey has never really been his thing) at his advanced age

For me, it will ALWAYS be about Perry. I'd enjoy listening to these songs in a Karaoke bar, but it will NEVER touch the genius that Perry was. I do think if Arnel is up there performing live (and kudos to Schon for finding a guy who was at least willing to try that), he is fair game to be criticized when he sings the wrong lyrics to the band's signature song! I don't know enough about in-ear-monitors to comment on whether or not that's even a factor. That said, I'm quite certain that rain doesn't cause people to forget lyrics (as some here have suggested). I could be up to my nipples in snow, and I'm fairly certain that there isn't a single word in "Don't Stop Believin'" that I would ever fuck up!

Now, to be fair to Arnel, English isn't his native language, so it's VERY difficult for me to get on his case for diction issues. If you want to blame anyone, blame Schon for hiring a guy who doesn't speak English as his native language. The reality is that Arnel is an immensely talented guy, and VERY humble. The thing I like most about Arnel is that he's as likeable (if not more) as Augeri was, but has a FAR better singing voice and FAR better range. I don't agree with Rick that people are hoping that Arnel "fails", because he's too likeable for people to have ill thoughts about him. Also, I'm not even sure what "success" or "failure" means for Journey these days. I think Arnel sings the Journey classics better than anyone since Perry, but he's still not close to Perry, on the classics, and probably never will be (which is more than okay). "Revelation" has some classic sounding Journey songs that I think Arnel shines on. "After All These Years" is a flawless Journey ballad, and "Turn Down The World Tonight" is a SUPERB, SUPERB song!!!! Arnel is doing as good of a job as he can do, but he's not above criticism any more than any of us is!

[portland]

I didn't bash Arnel, I just mentioned his diction slipping. You Arnel nut-swingers jumped on me like I called your mothers crack whores, lol.

I like Arnel's voice. Do I think he was a better choice than JSS? Heck no. I do think he is a talented man with a great voice though.

Sheesh, it was an observation, relax.

I think you're spot on, actually. Here's the deal...Everytime Journey rolls out a "new lead singer", the lines are drawn in the sand, within a week. There is always a group who will be super critical of ANYTHING the "new" guy does. Then there is the other group who would endorse Kermit the Frog becoming the lead singer of Journey, because they simply don't have the backbone to EVER disagree with ANYTHING that "Journey" does. The final group (and it's the group I consider myself a part of) is mostly apathetic. I grew up listening to this music and will ALWAYS be connected to it. That said, what they guys calling themselves "Journey" are doing in 2009 isn't that relevant to me. That ship sailed many years ago and that moment in time will be forever buried somewhere back in 1983. It was a magical time, but that magical time is LONG GONE! I applaud Neal for still having a passion for playing music (even though the music of Journey has never really been his thing) at his advanced age

For me, it will ALWAYS be about Perry. I'd enjoy listening to these songs in a Karaoke bar, but it will NEVER touch the genius that Perry was. I do think if Arnel is up there performing live (and kudos to Schon for finding a guy who was at least willing to try that), he is fair game to be criticized when he sings the wrong lyrics to the band's signature song! I don't know enough about in-ear-monitors to comment on whether or not that's even a factor. That said, I'm quite certain that rain doesn't cause people to forget lyrics (as some here have suggested). I could be up to my nipples in snow, and I'm fairly certain that there isn't a single word in "Don't Stop Believin'" that I would ever fuck up!

Now, to be fair to Arnel, English isn't his native language, so it's VERY difficult for me to get on his case for diction issues. If you want to blame anyone, blame Schon for hiring a guy who doesn't speak English as his native language. The reality is that Arnel is an immensely talented guy, and VERY humble. The thing I like most about Arnel is that he's as likeable (if not more) as Augeri was, but has a FAR better singing voice and FAR better range. I don't agree with Rick that people are hoping that Arnel "fails", because he's too likeable to have ill thoughts about him. Also, I'm not even sure what "success" or "failure" mean for Journey these days. I think Arnel sings the Journey classics better than anyone since Perry, but he's still not close to Perry, on the classics, and probably never will be (which is more than okay). "Revelation" has some classic sounding Journey songs that I think Arnel shines on. "After All These Years" is a flawless Journey ballad, and "Turn Down The World Tonight" is a SUPERB, SUPERB song!!!! Arnel is doing as good of a job as he can do, but he's not above criticism any more than any of us is!

WOW - You make way too much sense to be posting here...I agree totally and have said as much many times. BRAVO!

[Deb]

For me, it will ALWAYS be about Perry.

John, ya big Loon!

[Jana]

John/Enigma said: Everytime Journey rolls out a "new lead singer", the lines are drawn in the sand, within a week. There is always a group who will be super critical of ANYTHING the "new" guy does. Then there is the other group who would endorse Kermit the Frog becoming the lead singer of Journey, because they simply don't have the backbone to EVER disagree with ANYTHING that "Journey" does. The final group (and it's the group I consider myself a part of) is mostly apathetic.


Those aren't the only groups: super critical of whichever new guy is there, endorses whatever Journey does, or apathetic without Perry. There's quite a few more subgroups in there.

For all on here, there will never be another Perry, but some don't just follow the band through every lead singer, with no backbone. Some have disagreed strongly with decisions and stated so with backbone, but eventually still loved the band and enjoyed each singer with them and so came back into the fold b/c of their love of live Journey music and like the singer or love Neal. Many on here may love Perry, but followed the band and loved Augeri and lost the love after he left.

There's quite a few on here who loved Perry but were fully onboard with Jeff Scott Soto and would have been following the band strongly, such as Deb. There's like me who really love the band again b/c of Arnel being hired and loving the energy of the band these days and his voice and the power of his voice live. I support SA, but never felt the magic with him re many classic songs, but did love Arrival. So it's not just three groups like you've broken down. I would not have followed Journey anymore had JSS been the lead singer b/c he was wrong for the band for me and many don't follow b/c of Arnel but would still be here if SA was the singer. And some just gave up with all the changeovers and decisions but HAD supported the band after Perry for a while.

[Eric]

Those aren't the only groups: super critical of whichever new guy is there, endorses whatever Journey does, or apathetic without Perry. There's quite a few more subgroups in there.

For all on here, there will never be another Perry, but some don't just follow the band through every lead singer, with no backbone. Some have disagreed strongly with decisions and stated so with backbone, but eventually still loved the band and enjoyed each singer with them and so came back into the fold b/c of their love of live Journey music and like the singer or love Neal. Many on here may love Perry, but followed the band and loved Augeri and lost the love after he left.

There's quite a few on here who loved Perry but were fully onboard with Jeff Scott Soto and would have been following the band strongly, such as Deb. There's like me who really love the band again b/c of Arnel being hired and loving the energy of the band these days and his voice and the power of his voice live. I support SA, but never felt the magic with him re many classic songs, but did love Arrival. So it's not just three groups like you've broken down. I would not have followed Journey anymore had JSS been the lead singer b/c he was wrong for the band for me and many don't follow b/c of Arnel but would still be here if SA was the singer. And some just gave up with all the changeovers and decisions but HAD supported the band after Perry for a while.

Thank you...well said. I demanded new material if I were to continue being a fan back 2 years ago...they delivered. I demand continually releasing new music, staying an active band...they are delivering.

With JSS - I listened to about a dozen boots before deciding to attend a show (despite not agreeing with opening for the Lips), he won me over with his nuances and energy

With Augeri...well, yeah...I think I just wanted Journey back. But he was a graceful frontman you have to admit.

[Michigan Girl]

I think the main point is that every group has an opinion and a preference!!!

[Ehwmatt]

Those aren't the only groups: super critical of whichever new guy is there, endorses whatever Journey does, or apathetic without Perry. There's quite a few more subgroups in there.

For all on here, there will never be another Perry, but some don't just follow the band through every lead singer, with no backbone. Some have disagreed strongly with decisions and stated so with backbone, but eventually still loved the band and enjoyed each singer with them and so came back into the fold b/c of their love of live Journey music and like the singer or love Neal. Many on here may love Perry, but followed the band and loved Augeri and lost the love after he left.

There's quite a few on here who loved Perry but were fully onboard with Jeff Scott Soto and would have been following the band strongly, such as Deb. There's like me who really love the band again b/c of Arnel being hired and loving the energy of the band these days and his voice and the power of his voice live. I support SA, but never felt the magic with him re many classic songs, but did love Arrival. So it's not just three groups like you've broken down. I would not have followed Journey anymore had JSS been the lead singer b/c he was wrong for the band for me and many don't follow b/c of Arnel but would still be here if SA was the singer. And some just gave up with all the changeovers and decisions but HAD supported the band after Perry for a while.

Thank you...well said. I demanded new material if I were to continue being a fan back 2 years ago...they delivered. I demand continually releasing new music, staying an active band...they are delivering.

With JSS - I listened to about a dozen boots before deciding to attend a show (despite not agreeing with opening for the Lips), he won me over with his nuances and energy

With Augeri...well, yeah...I think I just wanted Journey back. But he was a graceful frontman you have to admit.

And he's also responsible for the best album the band has done since 1983, you can admit that too. Revelation is a piece of shit compared to Arrival and it ain't that bad either.

[Eric]

And he's also responsible for the best album the band has done since 1983, you can admit that too. Revelation is a piece of shit compared to Arrival and it ain't that bad either.

I disagree, but might not looking bad on Revelation in 8 years like I am with Arrival. Arrival, unfortunately, has too many bad songs on it...which detract from its overall quality. (All the Way, Loved by You, Lifetime of Dreams, With Your Love).

For the record:

1-Escape
2-Frontiers
3-Infinity
4-Evolution
5-Revelation
6-Arrival
7-Generations
8-Trial by Fire
9-Departure
10-Red13
11-Journey
12-Raised on Radio
13-Look into the Future
14- Next

[Since 78]

I think the main point is that every group has an opinion and a preference!!!

Beautifully summarized.

(Lions 3-1)

[Ehwmatt]

And he's also responsible for the best album the band has done since 1983, you can admit that too. Revelation is a piece of shit compared to Arrival and it ain't that bad either.

I disagree, but might not looking bad on Revelation in 8 years like I am with Arrival. Arrival, unfortunately, has too many bad songs on it...which detract from its overall quality. (All the Way, Loved by You, Lifetime of Dreams, With Your Love).

For the record:

Arrival sounded different, Revelation sounds like an 80s record. Not a bad thing, but I just like Arrival so much more for its relative freshness. Revelation has some stinkers for me (Sunshower, What It Takes To Win, AATY, The Journey - very disappointing, I was expecting a great Neal track, Faith Remake - AWFUL, Place Remake - AWFUL)...

I really like All The Way and don't mind the other three - I just skip them and listen to the other stuff that's great (the great stuff is better for me than the great stuff on Rev)

Maybe part of it's contextual for me. I was just really getting into Journey back then in 00-01 when I found out that SP wasn't in the band, but that they still played with a new guy. I downloaded Remember Me and was blown away, then I got Arrival for a birthday present and didn't stop playin that fucker. As soon as the first chorus of Higher Place hit I was hooked and Signs of Life musta been played 200 times that first week I had the CD. In a way, Arrival began my modern Journey experience, maybe that's why I love it so much.

EDIT: Oh, and BTW, totally with you - if they are producing (good) new material, I will stick with them. That goes not just for Journey, but any classic band that has had personnel changes over the years, within reason at least. I'm not gonna check out the new Guess Who, for instance - no signature voice, no signature guitar, no signature piano, neither of the signature songwriters... that's just too gutted to even consider.

[Deb]

I think the main point is that every group has an opinion and a preference!!!

Beautifully summarized.

(Lions 3-1)

Yep, and we all live as one big dysfunctional family in this MR bubble.

[Enigma869]

And he's also responsible for the best album the band has done since 1983, you can admit that too. Revelation is a piece of shit compared to Arrival and it ain't that bad either.

I liked Arrival, a lot. Having said that, there isn't a single song on Arrival that is half as good as "Turn Down The World Tonight". Also, "All The Way" is as cheeseball as "Open Arms"...An absolute DREADFUL song, made worse with Augeri up on stage, prancing around in his red leather pants and chick's blouse! "After All These Years" is a superior ballad to "All The Way" or even "With Your Love" (which in the interest of full disclosure was actually my wedding song)! Again, Arrival is a very good album, but Arnel's power alone, absolutely blows away anything Augeri ever recorded with Journey!

[Ehwmatt]

And he's also responsible for the best album the band has done since 1983, you can admit that too. Revelation is a piece of shit compared to Arrival and it ain't that bad either.

I liked Arrival, a lot. Having said that, there isn't a single song on Arrival that is half as good as "Turn Down The World Tonight". Also, "All The Way" is as cheeseball as "Open Arms"...An absolute DREADFUL song, made worse with Augeri up on stage, prancing around in his red leather pants and chick's blouse! "After All These Years" is a superior ballad to "All The Way" or even "With Your Love" (which in the interest of full disclosure was actually my wedding song)! Again, Arrival is a very good album, but Arnel's power alone, absolutely blows away anything Augeri ever recorded with Journey!

TDTWT is great for sure, incredible song w/ a good message, but I prefer Higher Place, Signs of Life, To Be Alive Again, and Livin To Do by a country mile. All The Way has good Neal soloing, which is the difference between OA and most of the other sap Journey ballads. The bridge is neat too (From the miles that come between us... etc). AATY, I dunno, I just never took to it. The country comparison I've seen here kinda hits home for me w/ that one. Maybe if it had been on Arrival I'd love it and by this point I've just heard too many Cain-penned ballads to fully appreciate it.

I just think the writing was far more ambitious and textured on Arrival. Livin' To Do is a completely unique track, for instance. I think Steve sounds great on the album. He was/is(?) a great studio singer. Revelation is fun, but it's 1980s Journey by numbers for me. Nothin wrong with that, but I still play Arrival today and Revelation was pretty much done after (exhaustive listening) last summer.

[Saint John]

I'll meet you two knob gobblers halfway and say that Arrival is better musically and Revelation is better vocally. And that's not to say that Arrival is weak vocally or that Revelation is weak musically. There simply has to be a winner between the two.