Sept. 4/5, 2009 * Journey @ The Borgata, Atlantic City, NJ

[Don]

No second post? Where did Fuckles run off to? Should we take three guesses?

Well, this was a great thread discussing the concert and the songs in the setlist with a lot of positives. Too bad, someone always has to try to find a negative in everything. And that goes both ways.

Yep, everything was running nicely with the ocasional rough stone in the road. I guess someone needed another reason to call us all haters so they sent an emmisary to stir the pot.

All will be back to normal tomorrow. You'll be able to go back to crying about the injustices of MR as normally scheduled.

[Don]

I can't help but put my two cents to this freakin discussion. Arnel's accent is distracting but are you people tone deaf?, damn NASAL shit Perry was letting out in every high notes is all out annoying. Even I can live with Arnel's accent but that baby seal being clobbered shit is all out BAD! Not because I'm all for Arnel but I never heard these guys sing before so my comparison is fresh and untainted, trust me I'll pay the six grand I paid (w/ friends help) for a sky box to see Arnel with Journey over and over. I swore to be committed to the end!

I'm a Journey and AP fan and you are an idiot on this forum

Most of the newbs start out in "idot status". In time he'll get on board.

They probably read your post over at plokkerville and wanted to prove that there are idiots on both sides of the fence.

( That's right, I read all the news at all the Journey sites, I just leave my balls at the door when logging into some of them. I've even the read the top secret transcripts! )

[Jubilee]

I can't help but put my two cents to this freakin discussion. Arnel's accent is distracting but are you people tone deaf?, damn NASAL shit Perry was letting out in every high notes is all out annoying. Even I can live with Arnel's accent but that baby seal being clobbered shit is all out BAD! Not because I'm all for Arnel but I never heard these guys sing before so my comparison is fresh and untainted, trust me I'll pay the six grand I paid (w/ friends help) for a sky box to see Arnel with Journey over and over. I swore to be committed to the end!

Well, now you've gone and done it. Perry's voice may have been a lot of things, but "nasal" was never one of them. For the record, if you've never heard these guys sing before, just exactly what are you comparing?

Oh, and welcome! You may want to stock up on lube...I think you're gonna need it.

[*Laura]

Let's see...

Arnel's accent is distracting

damn NASAL shit Perry was letting out in every high notes

I paid (w/ friends help) for a sky box to see Arnel with Journey

BUT WAIT!

I never heard these guys sing before

Thanks for the laugh.

[portland]

Let's see...

Arnel's accent is distracting

damn NASAL shit Perry was letting out in every high notes

I paid (w/ friends help) for a sky box to see Arnel with Journey

BUT WAIT!

I never heard these guys sing before

Thanks for the laugh.

Who let this one in anyway??

[Don]

Let's see...

Arnel's accent is distracting

damn NASAL shit Perry was letting out in every high notes

I paid (w/ friends help) for a sky box to see Arnel with Journey

BUT WAIT!

I never heard these guys sing before

Thanks for the laugh.

Who let this one in anyway??

This is the cyber equivalent of Ellis Island, we welcome all.

[Jana]

I don't even begin to think this is an Arnel fan. Six thousand dollar skybox, right. Call me jaded, but I think this is someone with a new name coming on to troll and stir up trouble who just hates Journey and MR, so get the natives stirred up here

[SultanOfSwing]

Just for the hell of it here my vote for the best versions of these songs for those of you who give a fuck
and his is not meant to be a slam on AP.....but if you listen to this you cannot compare the two.


WCTNGOF-Perry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NXcJNPYdb4

Patiently - Perry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NA0exiQOnk

That makes you miss Perry more.

[Don]

Just for the hell of it here my vote for the best versions of these songs for those of you who give a fuck
and his is not meant to be a slam on AP.....but if you listen to this you cannot compare the two.


WCTNGOF-Perry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NXcJNPYdb4

Patiently - Perry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NA0exiQOnk

That makes you miss Perry more.

Actually, watching those versions after watching last night's rendition makes me APPRECIATE the gift that Perry had, even more.

Everybody, be happy!!!

[steveo777]

I can't help but put my two cents to this freakin discussion. Arnel's accent is distracting but are you people tone deaf?, damn NASAL shit Perry was letting out in every high notes is all out annoying. Even I can live with Arnel's accent but that baby seal being clobbered shit is all out BAD! Not because I'm all for Arnel but I never heard these guys sing before so my comparison is fresh and untainted, trust me I'll pay the six grand I paid (w/ friends help) for a sky box to see Arnel with Journey over and over. I swore to be committed to the end!

I'm a Journey and AP fan and you are an idiot on this forum

Most of the newbs start out in "idot status". In time he'll get on board.

They probably read your post over at plokkerville and wanted to prove that there are idiots on both sides of the fence.

( That's right, I read all the news at all the Journey sites, I just leave my balls at the door when logging into some of them. I've even the read the top secret transcripts! )

I've never seen a Gunbot logged in over there and you must be logged in to view transcripts. So, now I know you are a covert op spying for MR.

[Don]

I can't help but put my two cents to this freakin discussion. Arnel's accent is distracting but are you people tone deaf?, damn NASAL shit Perry was letting out in every high notes is all out annoying. Even I can live with Arnel's accent but that baby seal being clobbered shit is all out BAD! Not because I'm all for Arnel but I never heard these guys sing before so my comparison is fresh and untainted, trust me I'll pay the six grand I paid (w/ friends help) for a sky box to see Arnel with Journey over and over. I swore to be committed to the end!

I'm a Journey and AP fan and you are an idiot on this forum

Most of the newbs start out in "idot status". In time he'll get on board.

They probably read your post over at plokkerville and wanted to prove that there are idiots on both sides of the fence.

( That's right, I read all the news at all the Journey sites, I just leave my balls at the door when logging into some of them. I've even the read the top secret transcripts! )

I've never seen a Gunbot logged in over there and you must be logged in to view transcripts. So, now I know you are a covert op spying for MR.

No, I don't bring info from the transcripts back, that would be a no-no, right? It does help me in my interpretation of Arnel and his mental makeup. I've never said anything bad or off color during my visits. When in someone else's house, best to show courtesy, di ba?
My handle over there is Sigewulf, but I haven't posted in ages. I have another account under a different user name and IP address but I won't divulge that one. If I get banned, I don't want to lose all my access now, do I?:lol:

I was just thinking, how cool if they would have had Deen do the Patiently part and Arnel doing the WCTNGOF part in the middle? Deen just nails that song.

[steveo777]

I can't help but put my two cents to this freakin discussion. Arnel's accent is distracting but are you people tone deaf?, damn NASAL shit Perry was letting out in every high notes is all out annoying. Even I can live with Arnel's accent but that baby seal being clobbered shit is all out BAD! Not because I'm all for Arnel but I never heard these guys sing before so my comparison is fresh and untainted, trust me I'll pay the six grand I paid (w/ friends help) for a sky box to see Arnel with Journey over and over. I swore to be committed to the end!

I'm a Journey and AP fan and you are an idiot on this forum

Most of the newbs start out in "idot status". In time he'll get on board.

They probably read your post over at plokkerville and wanted to prove that there are idiots on both sides of the fence.

( That's right, I read all the news at all the Journey sites, I just leave my balls at the door when logging into some of them. I've even the read the top secret transcripts! )

I've never seen a Gunbot logged in over there and you must be logged in to view transcripts. So, now I know you are a covert op spying for MR.

No, I don't bring info from the transcripts back, that would be a no-no, right? It does help me in my interpretation of Arnel and his mental makeup. I've never said anything bad or off color during my visits. When in someone else's house, best to show courtesy, di ba?
My handle over there is Sigewulf, but I haven't posted in ages.

I was just thinking, how cool if they would have had Deen do the Patiently part and Arnel doing the WCTNGOF part in the middle? Deen just nails that song.

Deen has had way more practice on that song though, to be fair. Now the more I think about it, it's a hell of a job to have to memorize that many songs. Even if I could sing I don't know that I could have that kind of memory. Couple that with all the non Journey songs Arnel used to sing, he must have an amazing memory.

[Don]

I can't help but put my two cents to this freakin discussion. Arnel's accent is distracting but are you people tone deaf?, damn NASAL shit Perry was letting out in every high notes is all out annoying. Even I can live with Arnel's accent but that baby seal being clobbered shit is all out BAD! Not because I'm all for Arnel but I never heard these guys sing before so my comparison is fresh and untainted, trust me I'll pay the six grand I paid (w/ friends help) for a sky box to see Arnel with Journey over and over. I swore to be committed to the end!

I'm a Journey and AP fan and you are an idiot on this forum

Most of the newbs start out in "idot status". In time he'll get on board.

They probably read your post over at plokkerville and wanted to prove that there are idiots on both sides of the fence.

( That's right, I read all the news at all the Journey sites, I just leave my balls at the door when logging into some of them. I've even the read the top secret transcripts! )

I've never seen a Gunbot logged in over there and you must be logged in to view transcripts. So, now I know you are a covert op spying for MR.

No, I don't bring info from the transcripts back, that would be a no-no, right? It does help me in my interpretation of Arnel and his mental makeup. I've never said anything bad or off color during my visits. When in someone else's house, best to show courtesy, di ba?
My handle over there is Sigewulf, but I haven't posted in ages.

I was just thinking, how cool if they would have had Deen do the Patiently part and Arnel doing the WCTNGOF part in the middle? Deen just nails that song.

Deen has had way more practice on that song though, to be fair. Now the more I think about it, it's a hell of a job to have to memorize that many songs. Even if I could sing I don't know that I could have that kind of memory. Couple that with all the non Journey songs Arnel used to sing, he must have an amazing memory.

I think more than the lyrics, The hardest part has to be singing stepped down. Once you're used to performing a certain way, to change it up has to be hard. JSS said he didn't like doing it and they discontinued it with him rather quickly.

[steveo777]

I can't help but put my two cents to this freakin discussion. Arnel's accent is distracting but are you people tone deaf?, damn NASAL shit Perry was letting out in every high notes is all out annoying. Even I can live with Arnel's accent but that baby seal being clobbered shit is all out BAD! Not because I'm all for Arnel but I never heard these guys sing before so my comparison is fresh and untainted, trust me I'll pay the six grand I paid (w/ friends help) for a sky box to see Arnel with Journey over and over. I swore to be committed to the end!

I'm a Journey and AP fan and you are an idiot on this forum

Most of the newbs start out in "idot status". In time he'll get on board.

They probably read your post over at plokkerville and wanted to prove that there are idiots on both sides of the fence.

( That's right, I read all the news at all the Journey sites, I just leave my balls at the door when logging into some of them. I've even the read the top secret transcripts! )

I've never seen a Gunbot logged in over there and you must be logged in to view transcripts. So, now I know you are a covert op spying for MR.

No, I don't bring info from the transcripts back, that would be a no-no, right? It does help me in my interpretation of Arnel and his mental makeup. I've never said anything bad or off color during my visits. When in someone else's house, best to show courtesy, di ba?
My handle over there is Sigewulf, but I haven't posted in ages.

I was just thinking, how cool if they would have had Deen do the Patiently part and Arnel doing the WCTNGOF part in the middle? Deen just nails that song.

Deen has had way more practice on that song though, to be fair. Now the more I think about it, it's a hell of a job to have to memorize that many songs. Even if I could sing I don't know that I could have that kind of memory. Couple that with all the non Journey songs Arnel used to sing, he must have an amazing memory.

I think more than the lyrics, The hardest part has to be singing stepped down. Once you're used to performing a certain way, to change it up has to be hard. JSS said he didn't like doing it and they discontinued it with him rather quickly.

Yes, true. We have debated the tuning down part over and over and I think the majority agree that it is in the best interests of Arnel and the band to do so for longevity's sake. A half step is not going to effect my concert experience in a live setting at all. Some of us want to keep bringing this up. So, for those against tuning down we have two options:
1. Tune down and save the singer for many years to come.
2. Not tune down and go thru lead singers like kotexes

Bob, I'll take option 1 for 10 more years please!

[Don]

I think more than the lyrics, The hardest part has to be singing stepped down. Once you're used to performing a certain way, to change it up has to be hard. JSS said he didn't like doing it and they discontinued it with him rather quickly.

Yes, true. We have debated the tuning down part over and over and I think the majority agree that it is in the best interests of Arnel and the band to do so for longevity's sake. A half step is not going to effect my concert experience in a live setting at all.

I'm just saying that I believe that is harder than memorising lyrics. All the music variety shows in the seventies had their members learning five or six new songs EVERY WEEK and having to be perfect when recorded live, as they were lipsyncing quite a bit. That takes talent.

[Don]

Yes, true. We have debated the tuning down part over and over and I think the majority agree that it is in the best interests of Arnel and the band to do so for longevity's sake. A half step is not going to effect my concert experience in a live setting at all. Some of us want to keep bringing this up. So, for those against tuning down we have two options:
1. Tune down and save the singer for many years to come.
2. Not tune down and go thru lead singers like kotexes

Bob, I'll take option 1 for 10 more years please!

The only drawback is people who are talking about how terrible a sixty year old Perry would sound will basically be getting the same type of performance from Arnel in a few years as they can't step down much further without totally degrading the sound.

Perry was 45 during the FTLOSM tour. Arnel is 42. How is he going to sound in three years? Will the same people knocking Perry's performance from that tour be telling us to give Arnel a break because he's older?
What's good for the goose...

[steveo777]

I'm just saying that I believe that is harder than memorising lyrics. All the music variety shows in the seventies had their members learning five or six new songs EVERY WEEK and having to be perfect when recorded live, as they were lipsyncing quite a bit. That takes talent.

Ah, I see what you're saying now. Isn't Arnel's vocal comfort zone stepped down anyways? I don't think he is a soaring natural tenor, but has ability to do so, but more so last year than this year. Actually, I really hope he is singing more within his natural range this year, but I don't want it to end up much lower real soon.

[Ligzig]

I'm just saying that I believe that is harder than memorising lyrics. All the music variety shows in the seventies had their members learning five or six new songs EVERY WEEK and having to be perfect when recorded live, as they were lipsyncing quite a bit. That takes talent.

Ah, I see what you're saying now. Isn't Arnel's vocal comfort zone stepped down anyways? I don't think he is a soaring natural tenor, but has ability to do so, but more so last year than this year. Actually, I really hope he is singing more within his natural range this year, but I don't want it to end up much lower real soon.

He definitely is a natural tenor...it's just his age. Early Perry wasn't tenor, he was higher and if you remember Steve Perry saying the lyrics were made to fit him like a glove. Arnel not speaking english naturally, it has to be tough. I actually like this new sound better.

When we see the next album tailored to Arnel, we will see what the "real deal" is made of.

[Eric]

I like Arnel's version better just because of the extra roughness and power.

i could not disagree more! feeling that way/anytime is my absolute favorite and is it the velvet voice of rolie combined with the sweet soul of perry that makes it!

but of course, you have your own preference and are absolutely entitled.

Arnel does sound good...but Cain is the problem...he doesn't really even sound good for a cover band version.....the song needs Rolie's voice. I wonder how it would sound with Deen and Arnel swapping....even though they have the same type of voice?

Just the Same Way is one of my all-time faves....and that aint the same without Rolie either.

In fact - I actually feel Perry is easier to replace for my ears than Rolie!

[Eric]

Wait, didn't they record an album a little over a year ago?

well i believe they did! and they play how many of those new songs? it was just the comment about arnel capturing hearts.... just rubbed me the wrong way. like i said, i'm an old grouch .

5 last Saturday at Darien Lake:
The Journey
Change for the Better
Never Walk Away
Wildest Dreams
Higher Place

I think thats excellent to be honest Lula......you can't play anymore and expect the general audience to be happy?

[Don]

I like Arnel's version better just because of the extra roughness and power.

i could not disagree more! feeling that way/anytime is my absolute favorite and is it the velvet voice of rolie combined with the sweet soul of perry that makes it!

but of course, you have your own preference and are absolutely entitled.

Arnel does sound good...but Cain is the problem...he doesn't really even sound good for a cover band version.....the song needs Rolie's voice. I wonder how it would sound with Deen and Arnel swapping....even though they have the same type of voice?

Just the Same Way is one of my all-time faves....and that aint the same without Rolie either.

In fact - I actually feel Perry is easier to replace for my ears than Rolie!

Cain reminds me of Randy Goodrum and Jimmy Webb. Guys who could sing just well enough to demo their own material but never really able to carry the songs as a bona fide vocalist.
Outstanding songwriters but pretty vanilla in the old throatbox.

[Ehwmatt]

I like Arnel's version better just because of the extra roughness and power.

i could not disagree more! feeling that way/anytime is my absolute favorite and is it the velvet voice of rolie combined with the sweet soul of perry that makes it!

but of course, you have your own preference and are absolutely entitled.

Arnel does sound good...but Cain is the problem...he doesn't really even sound good for a cover band version.....the song needs Rolie's voice. I wonder how it would sound with Deen and Arnel swapping....even though they have the same type of voice?

Just the Same Way is one of my all-time faves....and that aint the same without Rolie either.

In fact - I actually feel Perry is easier to replace for my ears than Rolie!

Cain reminds me of Randy Goodrum and Jimmy Webb. Guys who could sing just well enough to demo their own material but never really able to carry the songs as a bona fide vocalist.
Outstanding songwriters but pretty vanilla in the old throatbox.

I wish I were at least that good of a singer, then I could at least play good bar gigs without lookin for a lead singer and what not

[SYNCH]

No, I don't bring info from the transcripts back, that would be a no-no, right? It does help me in my interpretation of Arnel and his mental makeup. I've never said anything bad or off color during my visits. When in someone else's house, best to show courtesy, di ba?
My handle over there is Sigewulf, but I haven't posted in ages. I have another account under a different user name and IP address but I won't divulge that one. If I get banned, I don't want to lose all my access now, do I?:lol:

I was just thinking, how cool if they would have had Deen do the Patiently part and Arnel doing the WCTNGOF part in the middle? Deen just nails that song.

OT: Are you a Filipino?

It's quite clear that AP is not yet comfortable with WCTNGOF, give him time and we'll see. Patiently is good though.

[steveo777]

No, I don't bring info from the transcripts back, that would be a no-no, right? It does help me in my interpretation of Arnel and his mental makeup. I've never said anything bad or off color during my visits. When in someone else's house, best to show courtesy, di ba?
My handle over there is Sigewulf, but I haven't posted in ages. I have another account under a different user name and IP address but I won't divulge that one. If I get banned, I don't want to lose all my access now, do I?:lol:

I was just thinking, how cool if they would have had Deen do the Patiently part and Arnel doing the WCTNGOF part in the middle? Deen just nails that song.

OT: Are you a Filipino?

It's quite clear that AP is not yet comfortable with WCTNGOF, give him time and we'll see. Patiently is good though.

Ya know, if I had been at that concert, I probably would not have even noticed if AP was comfortable with the song...I think I would have been just caught in the element of surprise and mesmerized by the moment.

[SYNCH]

No, I don't bring info from the transcripts back, that would be a no-no, right? It does help me in my interpretation of Arnel and his mental makeup. I've never said anything bad or off color during my visits. When in someone else's house, best to show courtesy, di ba?
My handle over there is Sigewulf, but I haven't posted in ages. I have another account under a different user name and IP address but I won't divulge that one. If I get banned, I don't want to lose all my access now, do I?:lol:

I was just thinking, how cool if they would have had Deen do the Patiently part and Arnel doing the WCTNGOF part in the middle? Deen just nails that song.

OT: Are you a Filipino?

It's quite clear that AP is not yet comfortable with WCTNGOF, give him time and we'll see. Patiently is good though.

Ya know, if I had been at that concert, I probably would not have even noticed if AP was comfortable with the song...I think I would have been just caught in the element of surprise and mesmerized by the moment.

I second that! What I said doesn't make me less an AP fan

[kgdjpubs]

Yes, true. We have debated the tuning down part over and over and I think the majority agree that it is in the best interests of Arnel and the band to do so for longevity's sake. A half step is not going to effect my concert experience in a live setting at all. Some of us want to keep bringing this up. So, for those against tuning down we have two options:
1. Tune down and save the singer for many years to come.
2. Not tune down and go thru lead singers like kotexes

Bob, I'll take option 1 for 10 more years please!

The only drawback is people who are talking about how terrible a sixty year old Perry would sound will basically be getting the same type of performance from Arnel in a few years as they can't step down much further without totally degrading the sound.

Perry was 45 during the FTLOSM tour. Arnel is 42. How is he going to sound in three years? Will the same people knocking Perry's performance from that tour be telling us to give Arnel a break because he's older?
What's good for the goose...

I hear untrained and not used to a major tour MUCH more than a well-trained singer who just hasn't done this for a few years. BIG difference. Maybe the same end result however. Age doesn't matter much when it comes to singers--it's the individual and how you take care of your voice. John Farnham at 60 has lost virtually nothing, and he's a tenor also.

What you are seeing with Arnel is taking a very gifted singer, but one who has never toured much....and throwing him out to the wolves on a major tour with maybe the hardest catalogue in music to perform on a nightly basis. If (and I repeat, IF) Arnel's voice fails, it will be technique/preservation while touring, not range. This shouldn't be a surprise--it was always a concern with taking someone off youtube versus someone who was a known quantity.

[fredinator]

Sounds to me like they are trying these out until Arnel gets comfortable with them; I think once he gets comfortable, he'll knock them out of the park! He sounds better to me singing these oldies than he sang those other 80's Journey standards... He may need to dial the shouting at the end of Anytime back a little but I think they're probably all getting used to singing/playing these songs--Jon, too; maybe they will even drag out an organ--that's what I'm hoping for, too. Maybe Rolie will join them when they come to Austin--I just thought of that! My heart just starting to beat a little faster, lol. At the back of my mind is Perry singing these glorious tunes and it makes me a little sad, too--just an afterthought...

Neal, thanks for trying these classics out again--they are superb!

[Rick]

Sounds to me like they are trying these out until Arnel gets comfortable with them; I think once he gets comfortable, he'll knock them out of the park! He sounds better to me singing these oldies than he sang those other 80's Journey standards... He may need to dial the shouting at the end of Anytime back a little but I think they're probably all getting used to singing/playing these songs--Jon, too; maybe they will even drag out an organ--that's what I'm hoping for, too. Maybe Rolie will join them when they come to Austin--I just thought of that! My heart just starting to beat a little faster, lol. At the back of my mind is Perry singing these glorious tunes and it makes me a little sad, too--just an afterthought...

Neal, thanks for trying these classics out again--they are superb!

I agree that he needs to learn some finesse. He's going to hurt himself shouting those notes out like that.

[Don]

Sounds to me like they are trying these out until Arnel gets comfortable with them; I think once he gets comfortable, he'll knock them out of the park! He sounds better to me singing these oldies than he sang those other 80's Journey standards... He may need to dial the shouting at the end of Anytime back a little but I think they're probably all getting used to singing/playing these songs--Jon, too; maybe they will even drag out an organ--that's what I'm hoping for, too. Maybe Rolie will join them when they come to Austin--I just thought of that! My heart just starting to beat a little faster, lol. At the back of my mind is Perry singing these glorious tunes and it makes me a little sad, too--just an afterthought...

Neal, thanks for trying these classics out again--they are superb!

I agree that he needs to learn some finesse. He's going to hurt himself shouting those notes out like that.

Like kgdjpubs aluded to, I belive the shouting comes from the lack of proper training as a vocalist. Like Neal, I believe Arnel has learned everything he knows by ear and hasn't really been schooled on the finer arts of singing properly.

[Ehwmatt]

Sounds to me like they are trying these out until Arnel gets comfortable with them; I think once he gets comfortable, he'll knock them out of the park! He sounds better to me singing these oldies than he sang those other 80's Journey standards... He may need to dial the shouting at the end of Anytime back a little but I think they're probably all getting used to singing/playing these songs--Jon, too; maybe they will even drag out an organ--that's what I'm hoping for, too. Maybe Rolie will join them when they come to Austin--I just thought of that! My heart just starting to beat a little faster, lol. At the back of my mind is Perry singing these glorious tunes and it makes me a little sad, too--just an afterthought...

Neal, thanks for trying these classics out again--they are superb!

I agree that he needs to learn some finesse. He's going to hurt himself shouting those notes out like that.

Like kgdjpubs aluded to, I belive the shouting comes from the lack of proper training as a vocalist. Like Neal, I believe Arnel has learned everything he knows by ear and hasn't really been schooled on the finer arts of singing properly.

Sometimes "touch" and "feel" can't be taught, they are natural to an extent. The same way some incredibly skilled guitar players technically can't move people with their skills... You can get better at it for sure, but dynamics, taste, and finesse are to a large extent a natural skill. Not sure at this point in his life Arnel can get tons better