Lyrical Approach: Simple vs. Ornate

[ChildInTime]

Since there seems to be a lack of discussion over here... mind if I stir some up?

Looking at Steve Perry's lyrical contributions both to Journey and to his solo albums, it is quite clear that Steve seems to be a fan of a direct, blunt approach to song lyrics. There is not too much fancy language in his work, and most of his lyrics follow simple rhyme schemes. This can be both an asset and a liability in his case: if the song is too blunt and too one-dimensional (and a little too cheesy...) the concept falls flat on its face. But a sweet little idea painted in a simple-yet-beautiful style can perk up simple writing approaches as well-- along with a very good voice to sing it, of course. The problem is, however, it is far more easy to write bad lyrics in this style than good ones. It is easy to sound contrived and amateur when one gets this concept wrong, as SP has at times.

Now I had it over to you with a few questions for discussion:

*Do you favor a more simple lyric style or a more poetic, grandiose one?

*Do you find yourself liking Steve's lyric work, or disliking it? Why?

*Do you think bad lyrics detract from an otherwise good musical performance?

*Would Steve's music be more likable or less likable if his lyric-style was more detailed?

[Peartree12249]

Since there seems to be a lack of discussion over here... mind if I stir some up?

Looking at Steve Perry's lyrical contributions both to Journey and to his solo albums, it is quite clear that Steve seems to be a fan of a direct, blunt approach to song lyrics. There is not too much fancy language in his work, and most of his lyrics follow simple rhyme schemes. This can be both an asset and a liability in his case: if the song is too blunt and too one-dimensional (and a little too cheesy...) the concept falls flat on its face. But a sweet little idea painted in a simple-yet-beautiful style can perk up simple writing approaches as well-- along with a very good voice to sing it, of course. The problem is, however, it is far more easy to write bad lyrics in this style than good ones. It is easy to sound contrived and amateur when one gets this concept wrong, as SP has at times.

Now I had it over to you with a few questions for discussion:

*Do you favor a more simple lyric style or a more poetic, grandiose one?

*Do you find yourself liking Steve's lyric work, or disliking it? Why?

*Do you think bad lyrics detract from an otherwise good musical performance?

*Would Steve's music be more likable or less likable if his lyric-style was more detailed?

I think Perry's solo music as well as his work with Journey is really more about communicating a feeling or mood rather than ideas. What attracts me to him as a singer/ songwriter is the emotional context of the music. For that I believe simple is better.

[ChildInTime]

I suppose I should add my own answers...

1. I usually prefer a more intricate style of lyricism, but I can certainly appreciate lyrics of a more simple nature as long as they are well-written and express an emotion (thanks for the addition of that term, peartree) or idea well enough. I suppose over-stating something can be just as bad as under-stating it.

2. I think Steve's lyrical work has evolved over the years, as does everyone's I suppose. I like his later work in FTLOSM and TBF far more than his work in the 70s/80s. It still is his own, but has a more mature spin that I like.

3. Bad lyrics can definitely detract from a musical performance in my opinion, but it depends on how much you pay attention to them. I pay a lot of attention to lyrics, so if they aren't up to par... I find myself wincing while listening.

4. I believe some of Steve's earlier lyric work could have been expanded upon in a more mature way, but his later work is fine as is. (Except for some lines, like "Precious girl... little pearl..." from You Better wait. That needed to be nuked. )

[Jubilee]

IMHO, as far as lyrics go, it's a matter of "feel". Sometimes the direct approach fits better, sometimes flowery prose fits better. The important thing is to clearly convey the message. What I really like about Perry's early work with Journey was his ability (along with Jonathan Cain) to paint a picture, lyrically, and conjure up perfect little vignettes to tell the stories to the listener. My favorite example of this is "Still They Ride". Simple song. Not too flowery. BUT lyrically it paints a picture for the listener: "...Jessey rides through the night under the Main Street lights, riding slow...traffic lights keeping time leading the wild and restless through the night...". Another example is of course, "Don't Stop Believin'". That song is just full of little vignettes that tell the story: "Just a small town girl...just a city boy...midnight train going anywhere...a singer in a smokey room...smell of wine and cheap perfume...workin hard to get my fill, everybody wants a thrill".

IMO, what Perry has lacked in much of his solo work is taking time to paint the wonderful little vignettes that were so present in his work with Journey. There's absolutely no question the man can deliver vocally, but lyrically, (and as a Loon, it pains me to say it, but) I'm just not sold.

[Laydee]

Personally, I prefer the old Journey songs. You hit the nail on the head when you said that Still They Ride and Don't Stop Believin' told a story. I would much rather listen to those kinds of songs. They are just classic! This is just my opinion though.

[journeyrock]

Since there seems to be a lack of discussion over here... mind if I stir some up?

Looking at Steve Perry's lyrical contributions both to Journey and to his solo albums, it is quite clear that Steve seems to be a fan of a direct, blunt approach to song lyrics. There is not too much fancy language in his work, and most of his lyrics follow simple rhyme schemes. This can be both an asset and a liability in his case: if the song is too blunt and too one-dimensional (and a little too cheesy...) the concept falls flat on its face. But a sweet little idea painted in a simple-yet-beautiful style can perk up simple writing approaches as well-- along with a very good voice to sing it, of course. The problem is, however, it is far more easy to write bad lyrics in this style than good ones. It is easy to sound contrived and amateur when one gets this concept wrong, as SP has at times.

Now I had it over to you with a few questions for discussion:

*Do you favor a more simple lyric style or a more poetic, grandiose one?

*Do you find yourself liking Steve's lyric work, or disliking it? Why?

*Do you think bad lyrics detract from an otherwise good musical performance?

*Would Steve's music be more likable or less likable if his lyric-style was more detailed?

I think Perry's solo music as well as his work with Journey is really more about communicating a feeling or mood rather than ideas. What attracts me to him as a singer/ songwriter is the emotional context of the music. For that I believe simple is better.

This is absolutely my opinion as well. I believe that Steve writes from his heart and does not write in a "calculated" manner. His lyrics tell stories from his experiences and his life. That is what attracts me to his music and it is also, IMO, why there are so many loons out there. They feel as if they know him because of his music and how it tells a story of his life.

For me, the emotion in the lyrics and the singing is key. Not necessarily the words.

[ChildInTime]

For me, the emotion in the lyrics and the singing is key. Not necessarily the words.

But you gotta admit they're icing on the cake at times.

Bruce Springsteen is another big storyteller; I always seem to like the Boss's lyrics.

[ChildInTime]

Personally, I prefer the old Journey songs. You hit the nail on the head when you said that Still They Ride and Don't Stop Believin' told a story. I would much rather listen to those kinds of songs. They are just classic! This is just my opinion though.

I think mid-period Journey is pretty good for this, and Still They Ride is definitely a great example of good Journey lyrics. Don't Stop Believin', too.

[Michigan Girl]

For me, the emotion in the lyrics and the singing is key. Not necessarily the words.

I agree in certain instances!! SP sings with such heartfelt emotion
that sometimes he takes the most simple lyrics exe. Sweet & Simple
and turns them into a masterpiece!! There are not many artists that can
do this.
Artists that are unable to do^^^^ require lyrical content or YUK!!!


Good topic, CIT...I'm very impressed!!

[portland]

For me, the emotion in the lyrics and the singing is key. Not necessarily the words.

I agree in certain instances!! SP sings with such heartfelt emotion
that sometimes he takes the most simple lyrics exe. Sweet & Simple
and turns them into a masterpiece!! There are not many artists that can
do this.
Artists that are unable to do^^^^ require lyrical content or YUK!!!


Good topic, CIT...I'm very impressed!!

For me it's the way he delivers the lyrics....so I am not as concerned with the simple vs the ornate...for me the delivery and emotion take over!!


BTW nice topic.....and who says it's all fluff down here

[ChildInTime]

^
That's why I started this... to cut down on the fluff.

[journeyrock]

For me, the emotion in the lyrics and the singing is key. Not necessarily the words.

I agree in certain instances!! SP sings with such heartfelt emotion
that sometimes he takes the most simple lyrics exe. Sweet & Simple
and turns them into a masterpiece!! There are not many artists that can
do this.
Artists that are unable to do^^^^ require lyrical content or YUK!!!


Good topic, CIT...I'm very impressed!!

I guess that was what I was trying to say. The emotion just makes the lyrics dance and go to the very core of my being sometimes. So the lyrics are important, but what is done with them are just as important

I'm a loon, sometimes I don't communicate with common sense.

[ChildInTime]

For me, the emotion in the lyrics and the singing is key. Not necessarily the words.

I agree in certain instances!! SP sings with such heartfelt emotion
that sometimes he takes the most simple lyrics exe. Sweet & Simple
and turns them into a masterpiece!! There are not many artists that can
do this.
Artists that are unable to do^^^^ require lyrical content or YUK!!!


Good topic, CIT...I'm very impressed!!

Thanks, and I think it's a mix of the two: emotive delivery and good lyrics. Though in Steve's case... I think he can get away with more.

[BlueGin]

Since there seems to be a lack of discussion over here... mind if I stir some up?

Looking at Steve Perry's lyrical contributions both to Journey and to his solo albums, it is quite clear that Steve seems to be a fan of a direct, blunt approach to song lyrics. There is not too much fancy language in his work, and most of his lyrics follow simple rhyme schemes. This can be both an asset and a liability in his case: if the song is too blunt and too one-dimensional (and a little too cheesy...) the concept falls flat on its face. But a sweet little idea painted in a simple-yet-beautiful style can perk up simple writing approaches as well-- along with a very good voice to sing it, of course. The problem is, however, it is far more easy to write bad lyrics in this style than good ones. It is easy to sound contrived and amateur when one gets this concept wrong, as SP has at times.

Now I had it over to you with a few questions for discussion:

*Do you favor a more simple lyric style or a more poetic, grandiose one?

*Do you find yourself liking Steve's lyric work, or disliking it? Why?

*Do you think bad lyrics detract from an otherwise good musical performance?

*Would Steve's music be more likable or less likable if his lyric-style was more detailed?

I think Perry's solo music as well as his work with Journey is really more about communicating a feeling or mood rather than ideas. What attracts me to him as a singer/ songwriter is the emotional context of the music. For that I believe simple is better.

This is absolutely my opinion as well. I believe that Steve writes from his heart and does not write in a "calculated" manner. His lyrics tell stories from his experiences and his life. That is what attracts me to his music and it is also, IMO, why there are so many loons out there. They feel as if they know him because of his music and how it tells a story of his life.

For me, the emotion in the lyrics and the singing is key. Not necessarily the words.

Totally agree with you both,not only do you get the feeling of knowing a bit about Steve's experiences through his music...you can also relate to them personally because his music/singing is heartfelt (that's what draws you in emotionally,it's like talking to a friend who went through the same thing IMO). But then, that's probably my fanciful side talking. As for lyrics...sometimes simple is better because you don't always need to be overly wordy to get the main point across.

[TRAGChick]

My response to "lyrics" and "feel":

Four simple words....in the Bridge of this song (which has the same title):
"Listen To Your Heart"

Proof for me that it's not WHAT you Sing....
It's HOW you SING it.

[Duncan]

My response to "lyrics" and "feel":

Four simple words....in the Bridge of this song (which has the same title):
"Listen To Your Heart"

Proof for me that it's not WHAT you Sing....
It's HOW you SING it.

Exactly

[Jubilee]

My response to "lyrics" and "feel":

Four simple words....in the Bridge of this song (which has the same title):
"Listen To Your Heart"

Proof for me that it's not WHAT you Sing....
It's HOW you SING it.

Exactly

Ordinarily, I couldn't disagree with you two more, but then Perry goes and throws a monkey wrench into all of my theories. Case in point: this unfinished version of "With a Tear". Utter nonsense, but, yup, sometimes it's not WHAT you sing, it's HOW you sing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sshSYwBcVS8

[tammy]

I remember reading an interview where SP said he writes "simply"...although, I'm sure he could write complex...he's never at a loss for words in interviews & he's very sensitive. But, hard to answer 'cuz most of the songs he collaborated with others. I always wonder which ones were SP's feelings/words/experiences exactly or Jon's, Neal's or someone else's that are listed in the credits.
Like that song he co-wrote with that young band (was it Gruff?)...those lyrics are scary and I wonder if they came from SP.

But, like some have said here (and, I'm sure for the vast majority), it's the feeling/emotion that pulled us in with his amazing voice. Along with the great melodies. The lyrics fall below those...'cuz we know some of them are pretty cringe-worthy.
The songs I like the most do seem to create imagery..."Still They Ride" is my very fave Journey song (although, I always thought it was "yes, he rides" until I saw it was Jesse!? who the heck is Jesse?)

Another fave that paints a pic is: "Easy to Fall" from TBF. The lyrics are deeper, the feeling of repeated failure & isolation, the repeat of "the words unspoken".
Anyway, the combo of great voice, feeling, sincerity, melody, lyrics is what makes it a sucess. So, if there are songs that have incredible lyrics but sucky voice or no real melody then I don't think I would buy. Actually, I remember there is a Linkin Park song with lyrics that I was drawn to but I didn't like the music...can't remember now what the song was called.

[ChildInTime]

Anyway, the combo of great voice, feeling, sincerity, melody, lyrics is what makes it a success.

Completely agree there.

So, if there are songs that have incredible lyrics but sucky voice or no real melody then I don't think I would buy..

Agree with the melody part, but some artists or bands have terrible vocalists but good musicianship and lyrics, and while they take a longer time to get into, I end up really enjoying them after awhile. Bob Dylan, for instance. Horrible voice, but everything else is awesome. Rush, while not known for their lyrics, is the same deal with me. Geddy Lee's voice is pretty awful, but the music is great.

[tammy]

That's the thing...it's hard to judge because there are songs that are sung by not so great singers & have odd lyrics, but ya love the song (the Rolling Stones comes to mind). As there are technically perfect singers who just don't have the "it factor"...crucial ingredient.
I don't know much about music other than what speaks to me...I don't know if SP had to choose certain words to fit his voice...in order to get the soaring parts in. The writing session for "missing you" was neat - gives ya an idea of the process.

[Arianddu]

Having heard the writing session of 'Missing You' I get the feeling that lyrics for SP are very much based on the feel the music generates, based around whatever he's feeling at the time. So a lot of songs are pretty, simple, not particularly profound love songs, because it's the feel of the moment. However, sometimes he (co)writes a song that has a particular story or feel he wants to tell, so the lyrics become a little more profound. "Captured By The Moment" is one that springs to mind; a song telling of some of the great influences on the baby boomer generation who had passed away, and the sense that these people had made a profound impact on a time and a generation. "Still They Ride", as has been mentioned, is another. Songs that are commenting on a situation or shared experience, while still sung emotionally, seem to have mor 'grown up' lyrics, for want of a better term, whereas ones that are about an emotional moment or reaction seem to be lyrically simpler, and sometime seem cheesy when read rather than heard sung.

Well, my thoughts about it, anyway.

[journeyrock]

Having heard the writing session of 'Missing You' I get the feeling that lyrics for SP are very much based on the feel the music generates, based around whatever he's feeling at the time. So a lot of songs are pretty, simple, not particularly profound love songs, because it's the feel of the moment. However, sometimes he (co)writes a song that has a particular story or feel he wants to tell, so the lyrics become a little more profound. "Captured By The Moment" is one that springs to mind; a song telling of some of the great influences on the baby boomer generation who had passed away, and the sense that these people had made a profound impact on a time and a generation. "Still They Ride", as has been mentioned, is another. Songs that are commenting on a situation or shared experience, while still sung emotionally, seem to have mor 'grown up' lyrics, for want of a better term, whereas ones that are about an emotional moment or reaction seem to be lyrically simpler, and sometime seem cheesy when read rather than heard sung.

Well, my thoughts about it, anyway.

Absolutely agree with all of what you have said, but particularly to the bolded part. That is what I think drives Steve's songwriting!!!!!