Olympic Bid for Chicago

[Saint John]

people have gone without electricity and running water because we destroyed the infrastructure.

Sounds like California. I suppose that's Bush's fault, too.

[Lula]

so what's the deal here? (rwf & tree) do you people only care about americans? do you care about other countries and people?

what did i post ever to make you ask this question?

your links from usaid don't exactly seem balanced, but i may be way off and if i am, my apologies.

[Lula]

people have gone without electricity and running water because we destroyed the infrastructure.

Sounds like California. I suppose that's Bush's fault, too.

to quote michael jackson "that's just ignorant"

[The_Noble_Cause]

What conservatives can't stand is the fact that the Bamsters top general in Afghanistan asked for more troops because they're getting their asses handed to them.

Actually, some Conservatives, namely George Will, have recognized Afghanistan for the geopolitical clusterfuck that it is and want Obama to just plain get out of dodge.
In fact, didn't your party run on a platform of "no nation building" just a few years back?
Wait..wait..I know.
9-11 changed everything, right?

[Glenn]

tree, if someone told you of their experience i'd say that is pretty real. true, we all experience things differently. my sister's neighbors left iraq during the first gulf war. they both have family still there and have recently begun returning on occasion. they have shared many pictures and stories of their former lives.

remember the "shock and awe" campaign? the carpet bombing we did had quite an impact on the infrastructure.

i'm not going to keep debating this. i have objected to the invasion of iraq since the get go. you have your opinion and i have mine, with any luck the reality is at least somewhere in the middle.

If Saddam had taken W's invitation and left the country within the 48 hours of W's deadline, none of this would have happened and Saddam would still be alive today. Probably Uday and Quesay too.

Not exactly sad they are gone .

Uday and Quesay....From Wikipedia


A report released on 20 March 2003, by ABC news detailed several allegations against Uday:

* As head of the Iraqi Olympic Committee, Uday oversaw the imprisonment and torture of Iraqi athletes who were deemed not to have performed to expectations. According to widespread reports, torturers beat and caned the soles of the football players' feet — inflicting intense pain without leaving visible marks on the rest of their bodies. Uday reportedly kept scorecards with written instructions on how many times each player should be beaten after a poor showing.[7] One defector reported that jailed football players were forced to kick a concrete ball after failing to reach the 1994 World Cup finals. Iraqi National Football team were seen with their heads shaved after failing to achieve a good result in a tournament in 1980s. It was widely circulated that Uday ordered the shaving as part of the punishment. Another defector claimed that athletes were dragged through a gravel pit and subsequently immersed in a sewage tank to induce infection in the victims' wounds.[8]

Other allegations include:

* Allegedly kidnapping young Iraqi women from the streets in order to rape them.[2] Uday was known to intrude on parties and otherwise "discover" women whom he would later rape. Time published an article in 2003 detailing his sexual brutality.[2][9] In one such instance, he accosted a young woman who was walking with her husband, where Uday said her husband was a nobody, despite him wearing a uniform showing him to be a captain in the Iraqi Army. Uday then ordered his men to grab the girl, to which her husband struck Uday in defense of his wife, and was apprehended by Uday's bodyguards. The wife was raped and later murdered, and the husband was sentenced to death for "high treason against Saddam".[citation needed]
* Alleged self-indulgence in an era of widespread privation. When U.S. troops captured his mansion in Baghdad, they found a personal zoo stocked with lions and cheetahs; an underground parking garage for his collection of luxury cars; paintings glorifying him and his mother with Saddam (which was known to have infuriated his father); Cuban cigars inscribed with his name; and millions of dollars worth of fine wines, liquor and heroin. An HIV testing kit was also found among his personal effects.[7] He amassed hundreds of millions of US dollars by running facade corporations illegally trading with Iran (although, at that time, UN restrictions did not allow foreign trading. Only later, Iraq was allowed to import certain commodities such as food and medical supplies legally under the UN Oil-For-Food programme).

* Usage of an iron maiden on persons running foul of him.[10]
* Allegedly Uday beat an army officer unconscious when the man refused to allow him to dance with his wife; the man later died of his injuries. Uday also shot and killed an army officer who did not salute him.[8]
* Uday purchased or stole approximately 1,200 luxury vehicles, including a Rolls-Royce Corniche valued at over $200,000. Uday is reported to have arrived at a polling station during a referendum on his father's regime in a pink Rolls-Royce.[11]
* According to a new report, Hussein plotted in 2000 to assassinate a leader of an Iraqi opposition group. The report states Uday wanted to kill Ahmed Chalabi, the leader of the Iraqi National Congress.[12]



And his brother Quesay :

Iraqi dissidents claim that Qusay Hussein was responsible for the killing of many political activists. The Sunday Times (London) reported that Qusay Hussein ordered the killing of Khalis Mohsen al-Tikriti, an engineer at the military industrialization organization, because Qusay believed he was planning to leave Iraq. In 1998, Iraqi opposition groups accused Qusay Hussein of ordering the executions of thousands of political prisoners after hundreds of inmates were summarily executed to make room for new prisoners in crowded jails.

[The_Noble_Cause]

...then why wasn't he returning the general's calls???

Only having one call with a general on the ground is not the same thing as ignoring calls.
If you have proof that Obama is not being briefed, or is not regularly in touch with the Secretary of Defense or the Joint Chiefs, then let's hear it.
Otherwise, you are spewing ignorant shit as usual.

...President obama needs to get his priorities in check. our troops should come first... always.

I know.
Maybe Obama can fire General McCrystal, the same way Bush went thru generals like toilet paper.
Saying this, by the way, isn't "playing the bush card", it's just pointing out that GOP hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[treetopovskaya]

so what's the deal here? (rwf & tree) do you people only care about americans? do you care about other countries and people?

what did i post ever to make you ask this question?

your links from usaid don't exactly seem balanced, but i may be way off and if i am, my apologies.

balanced? those links kinda go with what i've been saying. how that adds up to me not caring about other countries & people makes no sense.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If Saddam had taken W's invitation and left the country within the 48 hours of W's deadline, none of this would have happened and Saddam would still be alive today. Probably Uday and Quesay too.

And if W listened to the weapons inspectors on the ground, before pulling them out, no blood and treasure would've been spared.
W himself stated a basic truth before the invasion - war should only be used as a last resort.
Even if the UN Weapons Inspectors were somehow compromised because of the 'oil for food' scandal, their findings (or lack of) should have given him pause.

[RedWingFan]

tree, if someone told you of their experience i'd say that is pretty real. true, we all experience things differently. my sister's neighbors left iraq during the first gulf war. they both have family still there and have recently begun returning on occasion. they have shared many pictures and stories of their former lives.

remember the "shock and awe" campaign? the carpet bombing we did had quite an impact on the infrastructure.

i'm not going to keep debating this. i have objected to the invasion of iraq since the get go. you have your opinion and i have mine, with any luck the reality is at least somewhere in the middle.

Too bad you didn't have a neighbor that fled Kuwait while Saddam's Iraq raped, pillaged and looted it. So you would believe that that too was real!!!

why do you have to be such a jerk? i never denied iraq's invasion of kuwait.

Okay, I'll stop being a jerk....You're right Lula, we should have let Saddam run roughshot over Kuwait and any other country he wanted to without any repercussions or carpetbombing. You're right!

[RedWingFan]

If Saddam had taken W's invitation and left the country within the 48 hours of W's deadline, none of this would have happened and Saddam would still be alive today. Probably Uday and Quesay too.

And if W listened to the weapons inspectors on the ground, before pulling them out, no blood and treasure would've been spared.
W himself stated a basic truth before the invasion - war should only be used as a last resort.
Even if the UN Weapons Inspectors were somehow compromised because of the 'oil for food' scandal, their findings (or lack of) should have given him pause.

It did. It gave the US years and years of pause, starting in the late 90's. Even though Presidents and Congressional leaders stated repeatedly Saddam had to be dealt with.

[Lula]

so what's the deal here? (rwf & tree) do you people only care about americans? do you care about other countries and people?

what did i post ever to make you ask this question?

your links from usaid don't exactly seem balanced, but i may be way off and if i am, my apologies.

balanced? those links kinda go with what i've been saying. how that adds up to me not caring about other countries & people makes no sense.

what you've been saying comes off as though you don't really care about the iraqi lives that have been destroyed. don't know how else to explain it. i'm sure i'm wrong because i'd say you tend to care a lot about humanity so my apologies.

[Lula]

tree, if someone told you of their experience i'd say that is pretty real. true, we all experience things differently. my sister's neighbors left iraq during the first gulf war. they both have family still there and have recently begun returning on occasion. they have shared many pictures and stories of their former lives.

remember the "shock and awe" campaign? the carpet bombing we did had quite an impact on the infrastructure.

i'm not going to keep debating this. i have objected to the invasion of iraq since the get go. you have your opinion and i have mine, with any luck the reality is at least somewhere in the middle.

Too bad you didn't have a neighbor that fled Kuwait while Saddam's Iraq raped, pillaged and looted it. So you would believe that that too was real!!!

why do you have to be such a jerk? i never denied iraq's invasion of kuwait.

Okay, I'll stop being a jerk....You're right Lula, we should have let Saddam run roughshot over Kuwait and any other country he wanted to without any repercussions or carpetbombing. You're right!

oh come on. where did i say anything about kuwait other than knowing a family that fled iraq during the first gulf war? big bush sort of left the iraqis willing to fight saddam high 'n dry, but kuwait had every right to defend itself. i absolutely have a problem with our invasion of iraq under lil bush, but that is a whole different set of crap.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It did. It gave the US years and years of pause, starting in the late 90's.

If there is so much as a sliver of doubt, you DO NOT send soldiers in harms way.
It's that simple.

Even though Presidents and Congressional leaders stated repeatedly Saddam had to be dealt with.

Regime change was being promoted in Washington for a long time.
Sanctions and bombing, although brutal, are not the same as a full scale attack.

[RedWingFan]

It did. It gave the US years and years of pause, starting in the late 90's.

If there is so much as a sliver of doubt, you DO NOT send soldiers in harms way.
It's that simple.

Even though Presidents and Congressional leaders stated repeatedly Saddam had to be dealt with.

Regime change was being promoted in Washington for a long time.
Sanctions and bombing, although brutal, are not the same as a full scale attack.

How did we get sidetracked by Iraq. The general in Iraq isn't begging for more troops to help the situation. Bush already took care that thankfully (remember "the surge" Obama said was sure to fail?)
It's the general in Afghanistan that's begging for help, while Obama twiddles his thumbs and more soldiers die. You'd think he'd rethink his position of "surges". But no. He'll continue to let it crumble.....

[The_Noble_Cause]

How did we get sidetracked by Iraq.

I responded to one of FF's posts about the topic.
That is all.

The general in Iraq isn't begging for more troops to help the situation. Bush already took care that thankfully (remember "the surge" Obama said was sure to fail?)

Uhh, Bush only took care of it FOUR YEARS into the war and long after firing Generals like Shinseki, who had already called for more troops.
You act as if the The Surge was guranteed to work.
Might I remind you, that at the time, Generals like Casey and Abizaid, (who Bush also got rid of), and other military experts were against it?
The opposition was not driven solely by know-nothing bloggers at Daily Kos.

It's the general in Afghanistan that's begging for help, while Obama twiddles his thumbs and more soldiers die. You'd think he'd rethink his position of "surges". But no. He'll continue to let it crumble.....

You send more soliders in there, and even more will die.
This is not a decision to be made lightly.

[RedWingFan]

It's the general in Afghanistan that's begging for help, while Obama twiddles his thumbs and more soldiers die. You'd think he'd rethink his position of "surges". But no. He'll continue to let it crumble.....

You send more soliders in there, and even more will die.
This is not a decision to be made lightly.

That was also Obama's position of the Iraq surge. He was wrong. Soldiers in Afghanistan are dying now because they need more re-enforcements. Obama and the left have forsaken them. Face it that's why Obama won't send help. That's why "this is not a decision to be made lightly" Not the lives of Soldiers, He'll piss off the loony left! He doesn't want to take yet another hit to his poll #'s.

[The_Noble_Cause]

That was also Obama's position of the Iraq surge. He was wrong.

The terrain of Afghanistan is much different than Iraq.
There's a reason why it's historically known as "The Graveyard of Empires."
I'm not saying America can't do it, but if there are ways of achieving the objective while limiting the death toll, then they should be explored.

Soldiers in Afghanistan are dying now because they need more re-enforcements.

Soldiers are dying because they're in war. That's what happens.
And that's exactly why the decision to send troops should never be an afterthought.
I won't pretend to know whether or not The Surge is a silver bullet.
While it seems to have worked in Iraq, in the gray fog of war, who the fuck knows anything?
There were even reports that the improvement on the ground coincided with Muqtada al-Sadr's ceasefire.

Obama and the left have forsaken them. Face it that's why Obama won't send help.

Why would Obama have some knee-jerk response to forsake the troops?
Obama recently increased VA funding by billions.
That wouldn't only be amoral, it's just dumb politics.

That's why "this is not a decision to be made lightly" Not the lives of Soldiers, He'll piss off the loony left! He doesn't want to take yet another hit to his poll #'s.

The "loony left" are insignificant to general opinion.
You are also forgetting that Obama campaigned on ratcheting up both the Afghanistan war and Pakistan drone raids.
Right wingers on this very forum (laughably oblivious to their own recent history) even tried to paint him as some red-button-pushing madman.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Interesting topic and today when I had the chance I broke out a stack of Time magazines that I've held onto since late 90' into early 91' and there were some really interesting articles in there about Saddam and Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and Kuwait. One of the articles I read was about how Saddam had thought that the American Government would not interfere with the invasion of Kuwait since we spent so many billions of dollars helping Iraq out during the 8 years they were at war with Iran. Evidentally the American Government during the Ronald Reagan administration had gave Iraq billions of dollars just to keep them from going to war with other countries in the region. The article also mentioned how Saddam got ganked out of 60 Million when he thought an underground terrorist network was going to hook him up with nuclear materials for a bomb. They took the money and left Saddam playing pocket pool with himself. Also a very interesting piece of information was that Bush Sr. was pressing to end the problem over in Iraq peacefully without military force. Interesting because so many people feel Bush only wanted to go to war with Iraq.

On a side note, there was another article that I read in the same batch of Time magazines about Sean Lennon was getting together with Lenny Kravitz and redoing the Lennon/McCartney song "Give Peace A Chance". Kravitz is ranting in the article how talented Sean Lennon is and that he's just as talented as his father John Lennon was. Kravitz was making this assumption off of the new lyrics that Sean had applied to the already melody of that song, which in my opinion is not gifted at all. Almost anyone can add different words to an already famous song melody. So that fact is, 18 years later, what's Sean up to now? Any of that rant materialize? I'm sure most 15 year old kids whose parent(s) were famous and they have butt loads of status and money can do a lot of stuff most everyone else without the status and money can't do. So did this music deal pan out?

So..........no Olympics this time in IL.

[RedWingFan]

The "loony left" are insignificant to general opinion.

They're not so insignificant to general opinion when it comes to forcing government healthcare on everybody are they? The administration is trying every backdoor tactic to get it forced on the American people. They still know how to read the polls, they're playing to their base TNC.

You are also forgetting that Obama campaigned on ratcheting up both the Afghanistan war and Pakistan drone raids.

It's called lying to get elected. Much like he did when he promised the transparency of his administration. It's what liberals have to do to get elected. If they told the truth, they know they wouldn't stand a chance.

[The_Noble_Cause]

They're not so insignificant to general opinion when it comes to forcing government healthcare on everybody are they? The administration is trying every backdoor tactic to get it forced on the American people. They still know how to read the polls, they're playing to their base TNC.

Nothing in Obama's plan resembles anything remotely close to "government healthcare."
In fact, what he's proposing is similar to the plan Nixon tried to get done.
It's all a big giveaway to the HMOs.

Also, I fail to see how healthcare reform is the exclusive domain of "the loony left."
Understandably, with the modern GOP in retrograde when it comes to addressing the public's needs, any reform looks radical by default.
But it's simply not so.
Healthcare, like the EPA or Social Security, bridges the partisan divide.
You guys have defined socialism down to mean the government doing ANYTHING to help ANYBODY.

If Obama was truly pandering to the "loony left", single payer advocates would have ringside seats at the debate, instead of being hauled away in cuffs by capitol police.

It's called lying to get elected. Much like he did when he promised the transparency of his administration. It's what liberals have to do to get elected. If they told the truth, they know they wouldn't stand a chance.

Yea, umm, that's politics.

In regards to Afghanistan, tho, Obama said he’d focus on it and a troop increase was one of his first orders of business.
Whether he wants to commit yet another 40,000 troops is another matter entirely.
You may chalk his indecisiveness to “forsaking our soldiers.”
I happen to think he just views them as more than skyrocketing net profits for Halliburton.

[treetopovskaya]

so what's the deal here? (rwf & tree) do you people only care about americans? do you care about other countries and people?

what did i post ever to make you ask this question?

your links from usaid don't exactly seem balanced, but i may be way off and if i am, my apologies.

balanced? those links kinda go with what i've been saying. how that adds up to me not caring about other countries & people makes no sense.

what you've been saying comes off as though you don't really care about the iraqi lives that have been destroyed. don't know how else to explain it. i'm sure i'm wrong because i'd say you tend to care a lot about humanity so my apologies.

what exactly have i said? post it.

[treetopovskaya]

...then why wasn't he returning the general's calls???

Only having one call with a general on the ground is not the same thing as ignoring calls.
If you have proof that Obama is not being briefed, or is not regularly in touch with the Secretary of Defense or the Joint Chiefs, then let's hear it.
Otherwise, you are spewing ignorant shit as usual.

...President obama needs to get his priorities in check. our troops should come first... always.

I know.
Maybe Obama can fire General McCrystal, the same way Bush went thru generals like toilet paper.
Saying this, by the way, isn't "playing the bush card", it's just pointing out that GOP hypocrisy knows no bounds.

my point was that the general shouldn't have been made to wait. i don't care if obama was being briefed (do you have proof he was?)... he should have made the meeting with general mcchrystal his first priority. just my opinion.

[The_Noble_Cause]

my point was that the general shouldn't have been made to wait.

Generals serve at the pleasure of the President, NOT the other way around.
I know you neocon teabaggers may be frothing at the mouth at the idea of sending more of our bravest and boldest to their deaths.
Fortunately, for the man who has to sign each death letter to families, there are more factors to consider.

i don't care if obama was being briefed (do you have proof he was?)...

Please tell me this is a fucking joke.

he should have made the meeting with general mcchrystal his first priority. just my opinion.

Ever hear of a little thing called chain of command?

[Lula]

so what's the deal here? (rwf & tree) do you people only care about americans? do you care about other countries and people?

what did i post ever to make you ask this question?

your links from usaid don't exactly seem balanced, but i may be way off and if i am, my apologies.

balanced? those links kinda go with what i've been saying. how that adds up to me not caring about other countries & people makes no sense.

what you've been saying comes off as though you don't really care about the iraqi lives that have been destroyed. don't know how else to explain it. i'm sure i'm wrong because i'd say you tend to care a lot about humanity so my apologies.

what exactly have i said? post it.

yeah, ummmm, i think i'll just let this go as i see it as pointless and a waste of time.

[treetopovskaya]

my point was that the general shouldn't have been made to wait.

Generals serve at the pleasure of the President, NOT the other way around.
I know you neocon teabaggers may be frothing at the mouth at the idea of sending more of our bravest and boldest to their deaths.
Fortunately, for the man who has to sign each death letter to families, there are more factors to consider.

i don't care if obama was being briefed (do you have proof he was?)...

Please tell me this is a fucking joke.

he should have made the meeting with general mcchrystal his first priority. just my opinion.

Ever hear of a little thing called chain of command?

tnc... when was the last time an american president lobbied for the olympics? i really wasn't trying to bag on obama... just giving my opinion why some may have had issues. i guess the timing was just bad. that is it... at least for me it was just the timing really. with all the crap going on. no big deal tho... i'm over it.

it might surprise you but i think obama should pull all our troops. what happens though after we leave? we send more troops people will continue to die we pull out people will continue to die. what is the answer? what happens to the people we leave behind?

i really hope that obama makes the right decisions whatever that may be.

[treetopovskaya]

For the record. I care about the lives of the innocent people of Iraq and Afghanistan. The 50 Million lives we have tried to liberate from tyranny, opression and Dictatorships. The women of Kabul who get shot for what they wear. The men beheaded for looking the wrong way. The WMD Halabja pics that I posted here and got reprimanded by Andrew for.

Who here wants to live amongst suicide bombers? Oh wait, we already have!

CNN has the video.

i'm just sad. }:C(

[The_Noble_Cause]

tnc... when was the last time an american president lobbied for the olympics?

It's a first as far as I know.
I can see how some might view it as cheapening the office, I really didn't give it much thought either way.
At the end of the day, the President is a glorified mouthpiece.
Would've been nice to bring some new jobs to the area tho.

i really wasn't trying to bag on obama... just giving my opinion why some may have had issues. i guess the timing was just bad. that is it... at least for me it was just the timing really. with all the crap going on. no big deal tho... i'm over it.

General McCrystal may very well be a genius and hold the key to winning the war.
But there's alot of variables, shit can go wrong.
And if it does, is the country prepared to dig in our feet for another eight years?
I doubt it.
There's diminishing troops, money, and even less national will.

it might surprise you but i think obama should pull all our troops. what happens though after we leave? we send more troops people will continue to die we pull out people will continue to die. what is the answer? what happens to the people we leave behind?

I know he's something of a punchline, but I'm with Biden.
Let's use drones, try to minimze civilian casualties, and leave behind a contigent force large enough to make sure the terrorists can't get their hands on Pakistan's nuke arsenal.
If that sounds like passing the buck, so be it.

[Saint John]

As soon as I saw Obama and Oprah throw their collective hats in the ring I knew Chicago was fucked. Funny how, when standing next to each other, they look the number 10. Thanks to both. I did not want the Olympics in Chicago.

[Michigan Girl]

As soon as I saw Obama and Oprah throw their collective hats in the ring I knew Chicago fucked.
Funny how, when standing next to each other, they look the number 10. Thanks to both. I did not want the Olympics in Chicago.

I am LMAO!!
This is true!!!

[Saint John]

As soon as I saw Obama and Oprah throw their collective hats in the ring I knew Chicago was fucked.
Funny how, when standing next to each other, they look the number 10. Thanks to both. I did not want the Olympics in Chicago.

I am LMAO!!
This is true!!!

MG, I could post a picture of 10 guys with mutilated pensies playing catch with hand grenades and you'd be "LYAO."