Perry wishes the band well!

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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:32 am

The re-treads aren't really an issue for me and to say this is why Arnel is being compared to Perry is simply short-sighted. He's being compared to Perry because he's in a band calling themselves "Journey"! It's really not much more complicated than that. Also, you have Frig and Fro babbling endlessly about the band's "legacy sound" and everyone on the planet knows that legacy sound = Perry! Hell, even on Oprah the second the term "legacy sound" was mentioned by her, the immediate picture on the screen was Perry. I'll never understand the point to re-recording the classics with a guy who simply can't sing them as well, but these are the dopey decisions that Neal continues to make, and save me the "Wal-Mart made him do it bullshit". You're the same mindless fucks who would tell me listening to an album backwards would make a guy murder someone! Nobody "makes" anyone do anything they don't want to do!
John from Boston
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Postby Behshad » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:41 am

[quote="Jana"][quote="portland"][quote="strangegrey"][quote="bluejeangirl76"][quote="Rip Rokken"][quote="strangegrey"]Just this past weekend, my wife goes "let me hear this arnel, I want to see what the fuss is about" so I play her BGTY off of the GH. Then I play BGTY off the retreads.[/quote]

Not sure that's best or even a fair way to introduce someone to Arnel, lol. Why not play a new song from Revelation? [/quote]

Why isn't it fair? It's how most of us were introduced to him... the youtube videos and that first concert that was streamed. Hell, that's how JOURNEY was introduced to him. :lol: We didn't have Revelation available at the time and had to go by his performance of the existing material, so, it's completely fair.[/quote]


Not only that....but if he's good enough, he should be able to stand up to any scrutiny, in any way directed towards him. No one looked at Sammy when he entered Van Halen and said "He can't sing Jump better than Dave"...


Plus, I'll add....Journey ASKED for this kind of scrutiny. They released the retreads. By saying "wait, it's not a fair wait to introduce him" is kinda rediculous, given the fact that by releasing a disc of rerecorded tracks (which should be judged JUST AS MUCH as revelation should be, since it's counted just as much according to the RIAA) they are litterally saying to the public..."pop in both discs and do the pepsi challenge"[/quote]



I agree the re-treads set AP up for the comparison with Perry and that was not a very bright idea...but I also think they were looking to replace Perry in the minds of the new fans not the ones like the people here...as I think that Neal does not really give a shit about the people who think that Perry was the voice of Journey. He was looking for the new fan base... the ones who don't really care about the history of the band...and well they could love the old songs with AP singing them...in Neal's mind anyone can do it .....yeah right :roll:[/quote]

:roll: :roll: :roll:[/quote]


great argument, Jana! :lol: well here's mine :

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Postby Pelata » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:46 am

This thread is amazing...LOL! :lol:
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Postby strangegrey » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:50 am

Red13JoePa wrote:
portland wrote:Neal does not really give a shit about the people who think that Perry was the voice of Journey.


Nor should he.

With "fans" like that, who needs detractors? I'd say the MAJORITY of the 800k + who've bought the album do not rant, rave, and rail hysterically against the Disc 2 material like the 10-20 of you online who do this do.
Most don't see it as some kind of space-time continuum ripping, world-altering desecration that the overwrought Journey bashers do, they just see it as new takes on old songs.



I dont think you're being acurate here. While I think that the retreads are pissing on originals....I know that general purchasers of revelation will not come to the same conclusion...

but I gaurantee you that ANYONE who listens to the new tracks and either is A) Not deaf, and notices a difference between the new songs and the originals or B) knows first hand that the retreads are done by arnel....

...will immediately pull out GH and start comparing. It's human nature...


that's the problem. Not whether the retreads piss on the legacy...we can leave that to us psycho fans to argue. But the run of the mill fan who is less invested, will want to compare the two out of curiosity alone.


Once that happens, Arnel's as good as dead...because he's being compared to the greatest singer on the planet in his prime. Not even close...
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Postby Jana » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:57 am

Behshad wrote:
Jana wrote:
portland wrote:
strangegrey wrote:
bluejeangirl76 wrote:
Rip Rokken wrote:
strangegrey wrote:Just this past weekend, my wife goes "let me hear this arnel, I want to see what the fuss is about" so I play her BGTY off of the GH. Then I play BGTY off the retreads.


Not sure that's best or even a fair way to introduce someone to Arnel, lol. Why not play a new song from Revelation?


Why isn't it fair? It's how most of us were introduced to him... the youtube videos and that first concert that was streamed. Hell, that's how JOURNEY was introduced to him. :lol: We didn't have Revelation available at the time and had to go by his performance of the existing material, so, it's completely fair.



Not only that....but if he's good enough, he should be able to stand up to any scrutiny, in any way directed towards him. No one looked at Sammy when he entered Van Halen and said "He can't sing Jump better than Dave"...


Plus, I'll add....Journey ASKED for this kind of scrutiny. They released the retreads. By saying "wait, it's not a fair wait to introduce him" is kinda rediculous, given the fact that by releasing a disc of rerecorded tracks (which should be judged JUST AS MUCH as revelation should be, since it's counted just as much according to the RIAA) they are litterally saying to the public..."pop in both discs and do the pepsi challenge"




I agree the re-treads set AP up for the comparison with Perry and that was not a very bright idea...but I also think they were looking to replace Perry in the minds of the new fans not the ones like the people here...as I think that Neal does not really give a shit about the people who think that Perry was the voice of Journey. He was looking for the new fan base... the ones who don't really care about the history of the band...and well they could love the old songs with AP singing them...in Neal's mind anyone can do it .....yeah right :roll:


:roll: :roll: :roll:



great argument, Jana! :lol: well here's mine :

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Behshad, you're getting very wordy these days. It must be the company you're keeping on MR. :lol: :lol:
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Postby Behshad » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:02 am

Jana wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Jana wrote:
portland wrote:
strangegrey wrote:
bluejeangirl76 wrote:
Rip Rokken wrote:
strangegrey wrote:Just this past weekend, my wife goes "let me hear this arnel, I want to see what the fuss is about" so I play her BGTY off of the GH. Then I play BGTY off the retreads.


Not sure that's best or even a fair way to introduce someone to Arnel, lol. Why not play a new song from Revelation?


Why isn't it fair? It's how most of us were introduced to him... the youtube videos and that first concert that was streamed. Hell, that's how JOURNEY was introduced to him. :lol: We didn't have Revelation available at the time and had to go by his performance of the existing material, so, it's completely fair.



Not only that....but if he's good enough, he should be able to stand up to any scrutiny, in any way directed towards him. No one looked at Sammy when he entered Van Halen and said "He can't sing Jump better than Dave"...


Plus, I'll add....Journey ASKED for this kind of scrutiny. They released the retreads. By saying "wait, it's not a fair wait to introduce him" is kinda rediculous, given the fact that by releasing a disc of rerecorded tracks (which should be judged JUST AS MUCH as revelation should be, since it's counted just as much according to the RIAA) they are litterally saying to the public..."pop in both discs and do the pepsi challenge"




I agree the re-treads set AP up for the comparison with Perry and that was not a very bright idea...but I also think they were looking to replace Perry in the minds of the new fans not the ones like the people here...as I think that Neal does not really give a shit about the people who think that Perry was the voice of Journey. He was looking for the new fan base... the ones who don't really care about the history of the band...and well they could love the old songs with AP singing them...in Neal's mind anyone can do it .....yeah right :roll:


:roll: :roll: :roll:



great argument, Jana! :lol: well here's mine :

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Behshad, you're getting very wordy these days. It must be the company you're keeping on MR. :lol: :lol:


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Postby Michigan Girl » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:13 am

Enigma869 wrote:The re-treads aren't really an issue for me and to say this is why Arnel is being compared to Perry is simply short-sighted. He's being compared to Perry because he's in a band calling themselves "Journey"! It's really not much more complicated than that. Also, you have Frig and Fro babbling endlessly about the band's "legacy sound" and everyone on the planet knows that legacy sound = Perry! Hell, even on Oprah the second the term "legacy sound" was mentioned by her, the immediate picture on the screen was Perry. I'll never understand the point to re-recording the classics with a guy who simply can't sing them as well, but these are the dopey decisions that Neal continues to make, and save me the "Wal-Mart made him do it bullshit". You're the same mindless fucks who would tell me listening to an album backwards would make a guy murder someone! Nobody "makes" anyone do anything they don't want to do!

+1

Right..Just like the RESEARCHERS for Oprah made the decisions in writing the band's history!!
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Postby bluejeangirl76 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:22 am

Behshad wrote:great argument, Jana! :lol: well here's mine :

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: (...infinity)


Damn it, B, was that necessary? :lol: That makes the page stall. If I get busted with eleventy hundred emoticons jamming the page and I can't minimize when someone walks in, I'mma bust your ass. :twisted: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Melissa » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:25 am

bluejeangirl76 wrote:
Behshad wrote:great argument, Jana! :lol: well here's mine :

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: (...infinity)


Damn it, B, was that necessary? :lol: That makes the page stall. If I get busted with eleventy hundred emoticons jamming the page and I can't minimize when someone walks in, I'mma bust your ass. :twisted: :lol: :lol:


I felt the odd need to count them all at first to see how many times he clicked the damn mouse, but then realized they can't even all roll their eyes at the same time, they're doing the wave :lol:
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Postby Pelata » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:34 am

I bet Perry wishes he would have kept his mouth shut now... :lol:
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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:46 am

Pelata wrote:I bet Perry wishes he would have kept his mouth shut now... :lol:


He's too busy cashing checks to give a fuck :shock:
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Postby kgdjpubs » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:24 am

strangegrey wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:
portland wrote:Neal does not really give a shit about the people who think that Perry was the voice of Journey.


Nor should he.

With "fans" like that, who needs detractors? I'd say the MAJORITY of the 800k + who've bought the album do not rant, rave, and rail hysterically against the Disc 2 material like the 10-20 of you online who do this do.
Most don't see it as some kind of space-time continuum ripping, world-altering desecration that the overwrought Journey bashers do, they just see it as new takes on old songs.



I dont think you're being acurate here. While I think that the retreads are pissing on originals....I know that general purchasers of revelation will not come to the same conclusion...

but I gaurantee you that ANYONE who listens to the new tracks and either is A) Not deaf, and notices a difference between the new songs and the originals or B) knows first hand that the retreads are done by arnel....

...will immediately pull out GH and start comparing. It's human nature...


that's the problem. Not whether the retreads piss on the legacy...we can leave that to us psycho fans to argue. But the run of the mill fan who is less invested, will want to compare the two out of curiosity alone.


Once that happens, Arnel's as good as dead...because he's being compared to the greatest singer on the planet in his prime. Not even close...



I don't know. Believe it or not, there are people out there who think Perry isn't the greatest singer out there. There's people on this forum who think there are better singers out there. Some, I might even agree with depending on the era (Perry got better the more he recorded). I know people who think Deen's version of Mother Father is better than Perry's vocal. Judging from people I've heard who are in the casual range, good enough is good enough. Maybe he doesn't equal it, but he's close enough that most people wouldn't care one way or the other. Once you pass 80 or 90%, you are nitpicking for most people. Remember, these are those who can't even tell the difference between Perry, Augeri, Chalfant, Hugo, Jeremey, Arnel and the rest of the high-tenor Journey-singing voices out there (JSS is different enough for most people to be able to tell).

Personally, my thoughts are that the production is worse (no surprise as it was done on a budget), but some of the arrangements/tempo are better. Arnel's tone on some of the Infinity material (ie Wheel in the Sky) is much preferable as he's not quite so high in the clouds as Perry was at that time. Not to mention the songs on Frontiers that Perry was buried in the mix, and he sounded considerably better live than he did on that cd. They fixed the mix issue this time.

Beyond that, Arnel came a lot closer than I would have guessed and it is "good enough". I don't have much interest in listening to the re-records. I don't listen to the Greatest Hits much either. Give me a good sounding warts-and-all live cd where you can really compare how good the band/voice is. You can make anyone sound good in a studio. Other people's mileage may vary.
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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:35 am

kgdjpubs wrote: I know people who think Deen's version of Mother Father is better than Perry's vocal.



Anyone who believes this has ZERO credibility! Deen's version of "Mother Father" isn't remotely close to Perry's version and I'm quite confident that Deen would be the first guy to say that! I like Deen a lot but I honestly don't know how one single person who actually has functional ears could say that his version of the song is even close. Deen doesn't have half the power in his voice that Perry had, and that's a song that was built on VERY powerful vocals!
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Postby kgdjpubs » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:50 am

Enigma869 wrote:
kgdjpubs wrote: I know people who think Deen's version of Mother Father is better than Perry's vocal.



Anyone who believes this has ZERO credibility! Deen's version of "Mother Father" isn't remotely close to Perry's version and I'm quite confident that Deen would be the first guy to say that! I like Deen a lot but I honestly don't know how one single person who actually has functional ears could say that his version of the song is even close. Deen doesn't have half the power in his voice that Perry had, and that's a song that was built on VERY powerful vocals!


haha. See how easy it is to get you to jump into a thread and get an automatic response. Too funny...

Seriously though, I'd agree that Perry's vocal is superior, but also that Deen's vocal is superior to a '94 Perry (or a '09 Perry attempt), simply as I seriously doubt Perry has the range to do a live version of that song in the original key. I think it would have been difficult for him to do it in '86 also after his voice dropped. Personally, I don't think it's Perry's BEST vocal, but one of his better vocals. I have seen shows (2003 stands out) with Deen doing that song and people's jaws on the floor. I think we can all agree that it is one song that you don't even go near unless you are pretty darn good.
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Postby Pelata » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:51 am

Deen's version of "Mother Father", IMO, is as good as anyone can possibly do it and NOT be Steve Perry...he nailed it.
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Postby fredinator » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:53 am

How old is Deen? I don't think I can even guess..
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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:19 am

fredinator wrote:How old is Deen? I don't think I can even guess..


According to a Google search, he was born August 17, 1965.
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Postby fredinator » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:34 am

He's 45 and can still sing like that... WOW.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:14 am

strangegrey wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote: the MAJORITY of the 800k + who've bought the album do not rant, rave, and rail hysterically against the Disc 2 material like the 10-20 of you online who do this do.



I dont think you're being acurate here.


Ah shit, sorry.
Almost forgot you Strangegrey.

21.
"I love almost everybody."---Rocky Balboa 1990
"Let's reform this thing.Let's go out and get some guys who want to work and go do it"--Neal Schon February, 2001
"I looked at Neal, and I just saw a guy who really wants his band back"-JCain 2/01
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Postby steveo777 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:25 am

Red13JoePa wrote:
strangegrey wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote: the MAJORITY of the 800k + who've bought the album do not rant, rave, and rail hysterically against the Disc 2 material like the 10-20 of you online who do this do.



I dont think you're being acurate here.


Ah shit, sorry.
Almost forgot you Strangegrey.

21.


The handful of purists are here on these boards and the rest of the fans are out seeing concerts or listening to Revelation (both discs) and the new DVD. I know my sister just told me she's on the 4th time thru the DVD and is so jacked and just can't get enough of it. AP is the only Journey singer she's liked since Perry.
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Postby perryswoman » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:28 am

Enigma869 wrote:
Pelata wrote:I bet Perry wishes he would have kept his mouth shut now... :lol:


He's too busy cashing checks to give a fuck :shock:



+ 1000. Do you really think he gives a rat's ass?
Come back Steve Perry!!
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Postby Michigan Girl » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:32 am

Red13JoePa wrote:
strangegrey wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote: the MAJORITY of the 800k + who've bought the album do not rant, rave, and rail hysterically against the Disc 2 material like the 10-20 of you online who do this do.



I dont think you're being acurate here.


Ah shit, sorry.
Almost forgot you Strangegrey.

21.

Missed this earlier....LMAO!! :wink:
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Postby journeyrock » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:11 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Of course SP has positive things to say about Journey. SP's has class and good taste and the gentleman that he is, we wouldn't be the type to wish negative things for the bad. It would take a complete idiot to make negative public comments, like the ex-INXS singer did about INXS, and that guy turned out to be a rocket scientist instead of a vocalist afterall.
Enter Neal Schon.......FUCK HIM!!
"as long as they have to carry DSB as their banner, it looks like Perry will be right there with them as an overseer, ready to wield his veto power on all things Classic Journey." As quoted by Don on 12/7/2010
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Postby Michigan Girl » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:42 am

journeyrock wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:Of course SP has positive things to say about Journey. SP's has class and good taste and the gentleman that he is, we wouldn't be the type to wish negative things for the bad. It would take a complete idiot to make negative public comments, like the ex-INXS singer did about INXS, and that guy turned out to be a rocket scientist instead of a vocalist afterall.
Enter Neal Schon.......FUCK HIM!!


lol!!! :wink:
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Postby Rip Rokken » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:45 pm

strangegrey wrote:When we got to Faith in the heartland, she goes 'Oh no, they retread an augeri song too? I Like the augeri version better"


Heck, I don't know anyone familiar with both versions doesn't like the Augeri song better. I played it myself a few weekends ago for a friend who had only heard the Revelation version, and she liked it better too. It's not AP's fault, and I completely agree with Kevin Shirley that that song really missed the boat before. It was just a mistake to tinker with it and the end result lost close to everything that was special about the original.

strangegrey wrote:That's my whole point...the retreads were such a dismal mistake to anyone that would put disc 2 in...because I don't know a soal on earth except for maybe Chubby that wouldn't listen to Disc 2 and then pop in GH to make direct comparisons.

When someone's forced to directly compare Arnel to Steve Perry in his prime, it's an epic fail for people 9 times out of 10.


Keep in mind that they had the basic goal of trying to record them as close to the original as possible (minus a few tweaks here and there). When you are a singer challenged with trying to mimic an original vocal track note for note, I could see very well how it might come off not quite as emotive. But AP isn't a Perry clone, and he sings with plenty of emotion when he uses his own voice.

Look, I do agree that having someone else sing on rerecords of songs originally sung by Steve Perry naturally brings about comparison. I also agree that the re-records seem to have sort of a demo-ish production value to them -- unlike the KISS re-records, which sound fantastic, and are incredibly faithful reproductions aside from a tweak here and there. But... it just doesn't make me any difference because I know why the band did them. Certainly not to improve on the originals. It was nothing but a business decision to give them more control over those songs, plain and simple. Mission accomplished. Next...

strangegrey wrote:But the run of the mill fan who is less invested, will want to compare the two out of curiosity alone.

Once that happens, Arnel's as good as dead...because he's being compared to the greatest singer on the planet in his prime. Not even close...


I completely disagree. Actually... I do concede this point fully -- if you have a "Steve Perry Sound-Alike" contest between Steve Perry and Arnel Pineda, Perry unequivocally wins hands-down every time. He also wins against every other singer who might challenge him.

But casual fans are just not going to care that much. And you are just comparing the two on voice alone -- AP has a whole lot more in his arsenel that wins people over. Aside from being a fantastic singer with a stainless steel set of pipes, he's an incredible stage performer, he has a great personal story, he's genuinely friendly and humble, and he's accessible and relatable to fans. If AP was going to be rejected by casual run of the mill fans, it would have happened before 2 years worth of successful shows and a double-platinum album.
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Postby StevePerryHair » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:50 pm

strangegrey wrote:that's the problem. Not whether the retreads piss on the legacy...we can leave that to us psycho fans to argue. But the run of the mill fan who is less invested, will want to compare the two out of curiosity alone.


Once that happens, Arnel's as good as dead...because he's being compared to the greatest singer on the planet in his prime. Not even close...


Funny you should say that. A "run of the mill fan" DJ on a Tampa 80's radio station I was listening to said, as she started the song DSB, and I quote:

"I bet this band has a boost in record sales after appearing on Oprah the other day. They have a new filipino singer who sounds remarkably exactly like Perry" :lol: I think to the naked non-fan ear, he does. Not EVERYONE is a die hard fan who can tell the differences and think that Perry is all the big fans think he is. That is what the band is banking on, and I'd say it's working.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:55 pm

bluejeangirl76 wrote:Why isn't it fair? It's how most of us were introduced to him... the youtube videos and that first concert that was streamed. Hell, that's how JOURNEY was introduced to him. :lol: We didn't have Revelation available at the time and had to go by his performance of the existing material, so, it's completely fair.


Here, let me help you out with this one. Image

What I said was that I didn't think it was best or fair to introduce people to AP by playing the re-records back to back with the originals. And sure, at one time those old YouTube clips were all we knew of AP, but there is so much more available now. A full album of new songs, and so many examples of his performing ability. There is so much more to Arnel that just a vocal comparison with a guy who can never be 100% duplicated.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:01 pm

Here's a little something for the loons to froth at the mouth over. I was reading the Manila DVD booklet, and on page 2 of the story, 2nd to the last paragraph in the right-hand column, it says: "Neal watched all 40 videos by the Zoo and emerged convinced he had found the voice."

I bet some of you could launch an 8-page thread griping about the heretical error in that statement.

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Postby steveo777 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:11 pm

Rip Rokken wrote:Here's a little something for the loons to froth at the mouth over. I was reading the Manila DVD booklet, and on page 2 of the story, 2nd to the last paragraph in the right-hand column, it says: "Neal watched all 40 videos by the Zoo and emerged convinced he had found the voice."

I bet some of you could launch an 8-page thread griping about the heretical error in that statement.

Image


You boldly went there! LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Rip Rokken » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:23 pm

steveo777 wrote:
Rip Rokken wrote:Here's a little something for the loons to froth at the mouth over. I was reading the Manila DVD booklet, and on page 2 of the story, 2nd to the last paragraph in the right-hand column, it says: "Neal watched all 40 videos by the Zoo and emerged convinced he had found the voice."

I bet some of you could launch an 8-page thread griping about the heretical error in that statement.

Image


You boldly went there! LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:


Faster than Captain Kirk!

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