Perry wishes the band well!

[steveo777]

As much as you've been involved with them, going to Manila, Memphis, etc., I accept what you say with a ton of credibility. I'm enjoying the ride for sure.

[Rip Rokken]

As much as you've been involved with them, going to Manila, Memphis, etc., I accept what you say with a ton of credibility. I'm enjoying the ride for sure.

Aww, that's very sweet! Tell that to my wife will ya?

[mdaemon]

Here's a little something for the loons to froth at the mouth over. I was reading the Manila DVD booklet, and on page 2 of the story, 2nd to the last paragraph in the right-hand column, it says: "Neal watched all 40 videos by the Zoo and emerged convinced he had found the voice."

I bet some of you could launch an 8-page thread griping about the heretical error in that statement.

...that deserves a new thread preferably downstairs.

[Ligzig]

Here's a little something for the loons to froth at the mouth over. I was reading the Manila DVD booklet, and on page 2 of the story, 2nd to the last paragraph in the right-hand column, it says: "Neal watched all 40 videos by the Zoo and emerged convinced he had found the voice."

I bet some of you could launch an 8-page thread griping about the heretical error in that statement.

...that deserves a new thread preferably downstairs.

Lmao

[SherriBerry]

Oh please, Steve Perry is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't! There is no doubt the Oprah show asked for a comment, because he certainly would not have called the show on his own to offer one. He made a kind comment in wishing Journey the best, did not say anything negative or disparage the band in any way, and he is derided for being phony or dishonest. If he had stated that he was disappointed in the new lineup or felt that it was second rate to Journey during his tenure, many of you would be going ballistic and calling him every name in the book!

The wisest and nicest people I know do not disparage others in public - they may not like someone, but they keep their feelings to themselves or confide them in confidence to their closest friends. It isn't being dishonest to keep your opinions to yourself and simply wish someone well!

As for the rerecords, I know that Neal stated it was all Wal-Mart's idea, they insisted on it and Journey had no choice. Do we really know that for a fact? I believe I read once a post from Deano stating that Neal wanted to do rerecords a long time ago. Why might that be?

[ttango1]

Neal does not really give a shit about the people who think that Perry was the voice of Journey.

Nor should he.

With "fans" like that, who needs detractors? I'd say the MAJORITY of the 800k + who've bought the album do not rant, rave, and rail hysterically against the Disc 2 material like the 10-20 of you online who do this do.
Most don't see it as some kind of space-time continuum ripping, world-altering desecration that the overwrought Journey bashers do, they just see it as new takes on old songs.

I dont think you're being acurate here. While I think that the retreads are pissing on originals....I know that general purchasers of revelation will not come to the same conclusion...

but I gaurantee you that ANYONE who listens to the new tracks and either is A) Not deaf, and notices a difference between the new songs and the originals or B) knows first hand that the retreads are done by arnel....

...will immediately pull out GH and start comparing. It's human nature...


that's the problem. Not whether the retreads piss on the legacy...we can leave that to us psycho fans to argue. But the run of the mill fan who is less invested, will want to compare the two out of curiosity alone.


Once that happens, Arnel's as good as dead...because he's being compared to the greatest singer on the planet in his prime. Not even close...

Utter bullshit. I say again. Utter bullshit. No one knows what another person will do exactly. This ain't the fuckin Matrix. I GUARANTEE that not every fan that bought Revelation has other Journey albums. For many, that was their first. For others like you and me, we have them all but really, when the retreads came out, I didn't have a problem with them, nor did I feel the need to bust out GH because I already knew how they sound in my head. So please, quit trying to think for everyone else. I don't have an ish with you talking about HOW YOU FEEL, but when you make it seem like you know how EVERYONE ELSE feels...I call UTTER BULLSHIT. And I think, you're hip high in it.
Look, we here know as peeps that come to MR, that there is a vocal minority who make it their point to use any or all negative cacophonic sounds to bring down the current version of Journey. Just because you are vocal...recognize...you're still the minority. The great majority are the fans out there in droves supporting what you LVMs think are a downgraded product. Yet a product that finds it's way on TV networks all over the world sans Steve Perry.
I think Steve Perry was an amazing singer, however... I don't have to suck Perry cock and hate Arnel. I can respect what both singers have brought to the table as well as the other singers who have contributed to the legend of Journey.

I've said time and again, why do you only have to love one and hate the other(s)? FUCK THAT. I'm speaking for myself. I like it all, that's why I continue to support Journey. 2 Original members, 2 key contributors to songs from their best known albums, 2 singers that cover the range of songs from most every era.
I'm cool with that continuing being Journey. You know why? Because they are.

[Saint John]

Awesome post, ttango1.

[Author2]

Neal does not really give a shit about the people who think that Perry was the voice of Journey.

Nor should he.

With "fans" like that, who needs detractors? I'd say the MAJORITY of the 800k + who've bought the album do not rant, rave, and rail hysterically against the Disc 2 material like the 10-20 of you online who do this do.
Most don't see it as some kind of space-time continuum ripping, world-altering desecration that the overwrought Journey bashers do, they just see it as new takes on old songs.

I dont think you're being acurate here. While I think that the retreads are pissing on originals....I know that general purchasers of revelation will not come to the same conclusion...

but I gaurantee you that ANYONE who listens to the new tracks and either is A) Not deaf, and notices a difference between the new songs and the originals or B) knows first hand that the retreads are done by arnel....

...will immediately pull out GH and start comparing. It's human nature...


that's the problem. Not whether the retreads piss on the legacy...we can leave that to us psycho fans to argue. But the run of the mill fan who is less invested, will want to compare the two out of curiosity alone.


Once that happens, Arnel's as good as dead...because he's being compared to the greatest singer on the planet in his prime. Not even close...

Utter bullshit. I say again. Utter bullshit. No one knows what another person will do exactly. This ain't the fuckin Matrix. I GUARANTEE that not every fan that bought Revelation has other Journey albums. For many, that was their first. For others like you and me, we have them all but really, when the retreads came out, I didn't have a problem with them, nor did I feel the need to bust out GH because I already knew how they sound in my head. So please, quit trying to think for everyone else. I don't have an ish with you talking about HOW YOU FEEL, but when you make it seem like you know how EVERYONE ELSE feels...I call UTTER BULLSHIT. And I think, you're hip high in it.
Look, we here know as peeps that come to MR, that there is a vocal minority who make it their point to use any or all negative cacophonic sounds to bring down the current version of Journey. Just because you are vocal...recognize...you're still the minority. The great majority are the fans out there in droves supporting what you LVMs think are a downgraded product. Yet a product that finds it's way on TV networks all over the world sans Steve Perry.
I think Steve Perry was an amazing singer, however... I don't have to suck Perry cock and hate Arnel. I can respect what both singers have brought to the table as well as the other singers who have contributed to the legend of Journey.

I've said time and again, why do you only have to love one and hate the other(s)? FUCK THAT. I'm speaking for myself. I like it all, that's why I continue to support Journey. 2 Original members, 2 key contributors to songs from their best known albums, 2 singers that cover the range of songs from most every era.
I'm cool with that continuing being Journey. You know why? Because they are.

Take a look at the end of your post. Is this indicative of your respect "Even dead, I'm more popular than Steve Perry"? Maybe you should be quiet.

[strangegrey]

that's the problem. Not whether the retreads piss on the legacy...we can leave that to us psycho fans to argue. But the run of the mill fan who is less invested, will want to compare the two out of curiosity alone.


Once that happens, Arnel's as good as dead...because he's being compared to the greatest singer on the planet in his prime. Not even close...

Funny you should say that. A "run of the mill fan" DJ on a Tampa 80's radio station I was listening to said, as she started the song DSB, and I quote:

"I bet this band has a boost in record sales after appearing on Oprah the other day. They have a new filipino singer who sounds remarkably exactly like Perry" I think to the naked non-fan ear, he does. Not EVERYONE is a die hard fan who can tell the differences and think that Perry is all the big fans think he is. That is what the band is banking on, and I'd say it's working.

That's not the point I had made. The point I had made was that once a direct comparison was made...i.e. someone comparing arnel's recording of Dont Stop to Perry's recording, that's where "instant death" (lol) is.

Not whether someone was casually listening.

Upon casual listen, Arnel sounds like Perry...just like Augeri did.

But once someone makes a DIRECT comparison...and compares the breathing, the singing, the diction, everything of one audio track to another....it's like comparing the mona lisa to a photographed and laser printed copy.


Plus, I would hardly take the opinion of a radio DJ. Ever hear the Tommy Shaw nickname for them? They're penguins. They'll follow you anywhere if you had snow. Most DJ's are not paid well at all and are barely invested in the music they're spinning. They'd say anything to get people to listen for a few more minutes, because their jobs are tied to their ratings...

[strangegrey]

ttango1, you're missing the point entirely...and you're just being a millitant little arneliot.
have a drink...or a horse tranquelizer...
maybe both?

[WykkedSensation]

ttango1, you're missing the point entirely...and you're just being a millitant little arneliot.
have a drink...or a horse tranquelizer...
maybe both?

[StevePerryHair]

That's not the point I had made. The point I had made was that once a direct comparison was made...i.e. someone comparing arnel's recording of Dont Stop to Perry's recording, that's where "instant death" (lol) is.
Not whether someone was casually listening.Upon casual listen, Arnel sounds like Perry...just like Augeri did.
But once someone makes a DIRECT comparison...and compares the breathing, the singing, the diction, everything of one audio track to another....it's like comparing the mona lisa to a photographed and laser printed copy
Plus, I would hardly take the opinion of a radio DJ. Ever hear the Tommy Shaw nickname for them? They're penguins. They'll follow you anywhere if you had snow. Most DJ's are not paid well at all and are barely invested in the music they're spinning. They'd say anything to get people to listen for a few more minutes, because their jobs are tied to their ratings...

well when someone is telling you that someone sounds like someone, I see that as a direct comparison. The only difference is you'll never catch the casual fan listening that closely. And there are way more casual fans than die hard fans who care. Arnel will always be good enough, yes.

And I don't think DJ's know all at all! I just saw her as a casual fan or maybe not even a fan at all. Not all DJ's even like the music they are playing. I do realize that.

[Jana]

Awesome post, ttango1.

+2.

[strangegrey]

Awesome post, ttango1.

+2.

Bartender, Horse Tranquelizer and a few beers for Jana too!

[strangegrey]

well when someone is telling you that someone sounds like someone, I see that as a direct comparison. The only difference is you'll never catch the casual fan listening that closely. And there are way more casual fans than die hard fans who care. Arnel will always be good enough, yes.

That's an indirect comparison. If you're not playing them side by side (well, really, sequentially...listening to two tracks together could be painful)....you can't directly compare one voice to another. Everyone I know personally, has taken the retreads and done just that. They've popped in the retreads and went "we need to see how close he really is"....and followed it with the originals. That's a direct comparison....and their results are all predictably the same. Once they hear perry's version, they hear every single mistake, problem issue with Arnel's voice.

I personally think that there are more fans out there that have done that than anyone arneliot is willing to admit. in ttango's perfect world, the 800k or so people that purchased revelation, have never purchased a journey cd before....and this is their first time hearing dont stop believin. The truth is, that is very much the exception, not the rule.

Anyone listening to revelation will go "Whoah, Arnel sounds close! how cool!"

Friga and Fro should have stopped their, knowing their job was done. But greed got in the way. Someone (presumably from walmart) fed them the garth brooks trick and demanded that the retreads be a part of it...and friga and fro saw a way to write perry, augeri and jss out of history. If only they can sell a paultry 500k copies....they can clock a platinum record in...and claim those prior to arnel are no longer a factor. So in addition to the retreads...a cheap ass price solidified the deal.

But the problem with the retreads is that it puts arnel under a microscope he can not, under any circumstances get out from under. He's literally, ON RECORD with direct comparison to Perry....and not Perry now, Perry when he was without equal. No fucking fool would have agreed to that. Arnel probably didn't have a choice. "sing this or I tear up your visa and put you on the next freight ship to south east asia"

[Jana]

Awesome post, ttango1.

+2.

Bartender, Horse Tranquelizer and a few beers for Jana too!

Just appreciate an OBJECTIVE post such as Ttango's. Make one and I will compliment you too.

[strangegrey]

Just appreciate an OBJECTIVE post such as Ttango's. Make one and I will compliment you too.

You or he is not objective.....you consider objectivity to be whether or not I 'accept arnel'....


If I came out and made the "I love arnel, oh he's so fucking great, I wanna suck his cock, he's my favorite pinoy, oh yay!...but these retreads were possibly, only maybe if schon doesn't hurt me, a mistake" statement ....you would possibly acquiese to my "objectivity" ....but because it feeds into your subjectivity.


I am not busting on Arnel's work...I've come around to enjoying revelation for what it is. I'm busting on the strategic buffoonery of the retreads. It was not smart...because of what i suggested above...in that it forces that direct comparison.

[Jana]

Just appreciate an OBJECTIVE post such as Ttango's. Make one and I will compliment you too.

You or he is not objective.....you consider objectivity to be whether or not I 'accept arnel'....


If I came out and made the "I love arnel, oh he's so fucking great, I wanna suck his cock, he's my favorite pinoy, oh yay!...but these retreads were possibly, only maybe if schon doesn't hurt me, a mistake" statement ....you would possibly acquiese to my "objectivity" ....but because it feeds into your subjectivity.


I am not busting on Arnel's work...I've come around to enjoying revelation for what it is. I'm busting on the strategic buffoonery of the retreads. It was not smart...because of what i suggested above...in that it forces that direct comparison.

Actually, it doesn't bother me if you accept Arnel or not. I don't expect everybody to, just like I didn't JSS. To each his own. You threw in some over-the-top comments that were way off base in a post that actually had some merit, and Ttango responded to it. You need a horse tranquilizer, maybe two, and a lot of beers yourself. Of course, this is just my opinion.

[Behshad]

[strangegrey]

You need a horse tranquilizer, maybe two, and a lot of beers yourself. Of course, this is just my opinion.

Every friday night!!

[SultanOfSwing]

Pardon me, ttango, but I need to borrow your signature av...but looks like this is what you did to strangegrey

[Ligzig]

Everyone I know likes Arnel and thinks he is the best Journey has had since Perry. Judging by some of the logic in this thread, I guess that equals how most Journey fans feel.

The fact is...your friends, and dedicated hardcore fans on Melodic rock don't equate to "most people". IMO most people go to concerts, hear Arnel and think about the memories of concerts or classic Journey songs and say "this guy is good" They don't know and don't even think about every breath/pronunciation/burp/fart/sneeze Perry did on each track like some of us here do. Think about the average joe Journey fan...you think he's gonna go home to his Traile....err, house, and pull out his huge Journey collection to make comparisons on the details?

I'm betting they hear what sounds like a damn good singer, and then they go home happy. Some don't even know Perry isn't there anymore, and couldn't care less.

[strangegrey]

It looks as if I'm going to have to respond to this rediculousness...

Utter bullshit. I say again. Utter bullshit. No one knows what another person will do exactly. This ain't the fuckin Matrix. I GUARANTEE that not every fan that bought Revelation has other Journey albums. For many, that was their first.

You really can't try to call bullshit with more bullshit. Can you gaurantee that not every person that purchased Revelation has other journey albums? Absolutely! Can you claim they are many? You are smoking crack.

For others like you and me, we have them all but really, when the retreads came out, I didn't have a problem with them, nor did I feel the need to bust out GH because I already knew how they sound in my head.

Good for you, want a fucking medal?

So please, quit trying to think for everyone else. I don't have an ish with you talking about HOW YOU FEEL, but when you make it seem like you know how EVERYONE ELSE feels...I call UTTER BULLSHIT. And I think, you're hip high in it.

Absolutely not, and you're missing the point. and by saying "I call UTTER BULLSHIT" in caps doesn't drive your watery point home EITHER.

Not once in the post that you quoted of mine, did I EVER say "EVERYONE ELSE" I said the 'run of the mill' fan will want to draw the comparison. Not the minority person who's never bought a journey record...but a general population of the 'casual fan' (which I believe is the language I used). I also made it clear in the beginning of my post that the general purchasers of revelation will not come to the conclusion I HAVE regarding the RETREADS.

If you're going to try to get all tough with me and think you're trying to smack me down, at least do yourself the favor of reading my post before you make a fool of yourself.

The band put something out on public record forcing a direct comparison between Perry and Arnel. Will *every* person that purchased revelation go through the comparison? No! Of course not. I know quite a few that took the second disc and threw it in the trash the minute they got the record. I know quite a few that never bothered listening to it in the first place. But I also know quite a few that did make the comparison...because they had the ability to. The only way they could do that with the other two singers post-perry, was to go see them live...something a 'casual fan' may not invest the time and money into. All a casual fan has to do is pop disc 2 into the player.

Look, we here know as peeps that come to MR, that there is a vocal minority who make it their point to use any or all negative cacophonic sounds to bring down the current version of Journey. Just because you are vocal...recognize...you're still the minority. The great majority are the fans out there in droves supporting what you LVMs think are a downgraded product. Yet a product that finds it's way on TV networks all over the world sans Steve Perry.
I think Steve Perry was an amazing singer, however... I don't have to suck Perry cock and hate Arnel. I can respect what both singers have brought to the table as well as the other singers who have contributed to the legend of Journey.

Let's get something straight here. This band has yet to sell a certified million units of Revelation. When Revelation or any record with Arnel on it sells anywhere in excess of 10 million units, you can use the word 'majority' and I wont laugh at you.....Hell, I'll let you use it even if the record creeps up to 5 million units. But the FACT here is that Arnel has not outsold Journey with Perry. Therefore there ARE journey fans out there that chose to NOT buy this record for one reason or another.

I have numbers supporting what I feel is your minority. You have an opinion supporting your opinion. Come up with something concrete and we can talk! until then, you can't support your position other than claiming you call bullshit on mine.

I've said time and again, why do you only have to love one and hate the other(s)? FUCK THAT. I'm speaking for myself. I like it all, that's why I continue to support Journey. 2 Original members, 2 key contributors to songs from their best known albums, 2 singers that cover the range of songs from most every era.
I'm cool with that continuing being Journey. You know why? Because they are.

You seem to miss the point I'm driving home here. I get it. I've come around on Arnel. I've grown to accept him. I don't think this band, fronted by him, will EVER achieve the greatness achieve with Perry...but I don't have to have that right now. The musical climate is different, the band is old, will have a hard time grabbing the teenie's, etc.

But the point of contention I have...which you can't seem to find a single logical point to counter with, is that the retreads were an error in judgment.

I think of the movie Rocky Balboa...they had that computer simulation where Rocky in his prime fights the current major champ and stomps all over him. Then, Rocky in real life actually puts up a hell of a fight and goes the distance with this guy. In real life, Arnel may be no better or worse than Perry as he stands (we may get to find out or not, someday...) But that's not the god-awful comparison Friga, Fro and Walmart forced Arnel to face....they force him to face a direct comparison between him and Perry in his prime. Sorry...Arnel doesn't stand a chance there.

Hell, I'm actually defending the little guy. I'm actually coming out and saying "Arnel's got a stacked deck against him, it's not fair"....and you still go after me, all pissy and arneliot millitant....

...just because it's coming from me?


Who's being subjective here and who isnt?

[Behshad]

Jana,,, here's your chance to compliment Frank now

[Michigan Girl]

Everyone I know likes Arnel and thinks he is the best Journey has had since Perry. Judging by some of the logic in this thread, I guess that equals how most Journey fans feel.

The fact is...your friends, and dedicated hardcore fans on Melodic rock don't equate to "most people". IMO most people go to concerts, hear Arnel and think about the memories of concerts or classic Journey songs and say "this guy is good" They don't know and don't even think about every breath/pronunciation/burp/fart/sneeze Perry did on each track like some of us here do. Think about the average joe Journey fan...you think he's gonna go home to his Traile....err, house, and pull out his huge Journey collection to make comparisons on the details?

I'm betting they hear what sounds like a damn good singer, and then they go home happy. Some don't even know Perry isn't there anymore, and couldn't care less.

U may B right...they go hm 2 their traile..err's w/a ........

[Behshad]

U may B right...they go hm 2 their traile..err's w/a ........

How the fuck did Stevew2 get a hold of poor MG's password??

[Ligzig]

I like bewbs.

[strangegrey]

LigZig, kill your double post, it's not necessary.

[Behshad]

Everyone I know likes Arnel and thinks he is the best Journey has had since Perry. Judging by some of the logic in this thread, I guess that equals how most Journey fans feel.

The fact is...your friends, and dedicated hardcore fans on Melodic rock don't equate to "most people". IMO most people go to concerts, hear Arnel and think about the memories of concerts or classic Journey songs and say "this guy is good" They don't know and don't even think about every breath/pronunciation/burp/fart/sneeze Perry did on each track like some of us here do. Think about the average joe Journey fan...you think he's gonna go home to his Traile....err, house, and pull out his huge Journey collection to make comparisons on the details?

I'm betting they hear what sounds like a damn good singer, and then they go home happy. Some don't even know Perry isn't there anymore, and couldn't care less.

[strangegrey]

and you're just being a dick, B!