Perry wishes the band well!

[Behshad]

and you're just being a dick, B!

[Michigan Girl]

It looks as if I'm going to have to respond to this rediculousness...

I'm glad you did...great, great morning entertainment!!

I GUARANTEE that not every fan that bought Revelation has other Journey albums. For many, that was their first.

I know ....I have learned this fact right here at MR!!

[Michigan Girl]

and you're just being a dick, B!

I am LMAO!!!

B-it was unfair for Frank to single you out...Lugnut was being a dick too!!

[Enigma869]

The suggestion that many who bought "Revelation" purchased their first Journey album with that purchase is simply moronic! I would venture to guess that the vast majority of so-called fans who made "Revelation" their first Journey purchase bought it simply because of Arnel, and those aren't Journey fans. If you never paid attention to this band when they had the greatest singer on the planet, you're not allowed to call yourself a Journey fan, as far as I'm concerned. Arnel is a very talented vocalist and I think "Revelation" is the best post-Perry work Journey has done. That doesn't change the fact that Arnel is nothing more than a hired gun (just like those before him) who has absolutely NOTHING to do with why anyone outside of the Phillipines knows who Journey is!

[Ehwmatt]

The suggestion that many who bought "Revelation" purchased their first Journey album with that purchase is simply moronic! I would venture to guess that the vast majority of so-called fans who made "Revelation" their first Journey purchase bought it simply because of Arnel, and those aren't Journey fans. If you never paid attention to this band when they had the greatest singer on the planet, you're not allowed to call yourself a Journey fan, as far as I'm concerned. Arnel is a very talented vocalist and I think "Revelation" is the best post-Perry work Journey has done. That doesn't change the fact that Arnel is nothing more than a hired gun (just like those before him) who has absolutely NOTHING to do with why anyone outside of the Phillipines knows who Journey is!

Yep to the bold

No to Rev being the best - Arrival is the class of post-Perry records, length and few unnecessary ballads and all. Not enough different style songs on Revelation to sink my teeth into compared to Arrival (Higher Place vs. Livin To Do vs. World Gone Wild vs Signs of Life vs We Will Meet Again vs Kiss Me Softly vs To Be Alive Again etc...). When you really think about it, song-to-song Arrival is a pretty stylistically diverse record, insofar as a melodic rock album from a band that's always been at the forefront of the genre can diversify their signature sound. That's what keeps me coming back.

[Ligzig]

I am LMAO!!!

B-it was unfair for Frank to single you out...Lugnut was being a dick too!!

Having an opinion is being a dick?

[Behshad]

I am LMAO!!!

B-it was unfair for Frank to single you out...Lugnut was being a dick too!!

Having an opinion is being a dick?

no but sharing it twice on purpose is

[Michigan Girl]

I am LMAO!!!

B-it was unfair for Frank to single you out...Lugnut was being a dick too!!

Having an opinion is being a dick?

I was referring to the double post...but I'm joking anyway, so opinion away!!!

[strangegrey]

I am LMAO!!!

B-it was unfair for Frank to single you out...Lugnut was being a dick too!!

Having an opinion is being a dick?

no but sharing it twice on purpose is

No, I called you a dick for stealing someone elses opinion!

[Ligzig]

I am LMAO!!!

B-it was unfair for Frank to single you out...Lugnut was being a dick too!!

Having an opinion is being a dick?

no but sharing it twice on purpose is

That's what I get for spamming the submit button.

[Behshad]

I am LMAO!!!

B-it was unfair for Frank to single you out...Lugnut was being a dick too!!

Having an opinion is being a dick?

no but sharing it twice on purpose is

No, I called you a dick for stealing someone elses opinion!

BORROWING,,,,, dickbag!

[strangegrey]

BORROWING,,,,, dickbag!

LOL....Sorry. I hadn't realized you were going to give it back!

[Ligzig]

I am LMAO!!!

B-it was unfair for Frank to single you out...Lugnut was being a dick too!!

Having an opinion is being a dick?

no but sharing it twice on purpose is

No, I called you a dick for stealing someone elses opinion!

BORROWING,,,,, dickbag!

What exactly is a dick bag?

Dick Bag: A bag containing dicks, penis, cock, wang, wanker, and/or slongs.

Jerry: what do you think that homeless guy is carrying?
Bonnie: probably a dick bag
Jerry: it must be heavy

that's the only definition I've found.

[Behshad]

BORROWING,,,,, dickbag!

LOL....Sorry. I hadn't realized you were going to give it back!

I gave it back alright

[bluejeangirl76]

I am LMAO!!!

B-it was unfair for Frank to single you out...Lugnut was being a dick too!!

Having an opinion is being a dick?

no but sharing it twice on purpose is

No, I called you a dick for stealing someone elses opinion!

BORROWING,,,,, dickbag!

What exactly is a dick bag?

A dickbag is a person who swiped MY term "dickbag" without giving me props!

LMAO!
No, couldn't be my term, but I'd never heard it before and randomly started using it one day, so in my mind, it's mine.

[kgdjpubs]

The suggestion that many who bought "Revelation" purchased their first Journey album with that purchase is simply moronic! I would venture to guess that the vast majority of so-called fans who made "Revelation" their first Journey purchase bought it simply because of Arnel, and those aren't Journey fans. If you never paid attention to this band when they had the greatest singer on the planet, you're not allowed to call yourself a Journey fan, as far as I'm concerned.

Yep to the bold

you guys are sort of missing the point here. A lot of these fans who like Arnel better weren't even born when ROR was released, and were pretty young for Trial By Fire. Perry's ancient history to them. They never saw him live. For that matter, the last time he performed live they were about 5 years old. Perry is a ghost. The band has been around long enough that there are people who grew up on Augeri or now, Arnel.

Believe it or not, there is a young contingent who likes Journey. There was a young girl (ie ~13) behind me this year who knew every word to the hits. That's someone who may not have even been born the last time Perry released a Journey song. She knew the songs though. Sounds to me like a fan.

[Jana]

Everyone I know likes Arnel and thinks he is the best Journey has had since Perry. Judging by some of the logic in this thread, I guess that equals how most Journey fans feel.

The fact is...your friends, and dedicated hardcore fans on Melodic rock don't equate to "most people". IMO most people go to concerts, hear Arnel and think about the memories of concerts or classic Journey songs and say "this guy is good" They don't know and don't even think about every breath/pronunciation/burp/fart/sneeze Perry did on each track like some of us here do. Think about the average joe Journey fan...you think he's gonna go home to his Traile....err, house, and pull out his huge Journey collection to make comparisons on the details?

I'm betting they hear what sounds like a damn good singer, and then they go home happy. Some don't even know Perry isn't there anymore, and couldn't care less.

That was a good one, go home to his trailer.

Great post. Since many co-workers heard I was going to see Journey they came out of the woodworks saying how much they loved Perry, loved Journey, and yet these "fans" had no clue that Journey was still around, if Perry was alive or dead, and don't pull out the old music ever to listen to it or probably don't have it anymore.

I kept listening to the buzz around me after the concert (which was an amazing concert) when it became obvious most didn't know Arnel and it was all positive. All I heard either many said he sounded like Perry or that Perry was better but he was great, fantastic singer, whatever. They were at a nice concert and went home all liqoured up, in the mood, b/c of Faithfully and nostalgia over music of their youth, to have sex, not to run home and dig around for a CD they probably have no idea where it is and do a song-to-song comparison.

[strangegrey]

you guys are sort of missing the point here. A lot of these fans who like Arnel better weren't even born when ROR was released, and were pretty young for Trial By Fire. Perry's ancient history to them. They never saw him live. For that matter, the last time he performed live they were about 5 years old. Perry is a ghost. The band has been around long enough that there are people who grew up on Augeri or now, Arnel.

Believe it or not, there is a young contingent who likes Journey. There was a young girl (ie ~13) behind me this year who knew every word to the hits. That's someone who may not have even been born the last time Perry released a Journey song. She knew the songs though. Sounds to me like a fan.

I see your point....but this isn't like picking the Bond that you grew up with as the best.

Two things are happening....they're buying revelations on account of radio play of old classics...(which I don't think is happening more than the later point) or they are buying GH based on radio play of old classics (which is more plausable).

Even if they've never seen perry....there's a good chance they are familiar with his voice more than they are with Arnel's ....therefore the same rules apply. Sure, you've got your Pinoy army thats on the boat because of arnel, not because of journey or perry...and they're buying rev first...and if they so desire, the rest of the back catalog.

But the majority of people that are getting into Journey these days are doing so because of airplay on classic rock radio or the sopranos. That's Perry's voice on there....


...they pop in the retreads and they're going to want to know why it sounds different.

[strangegrey]

I kept listening to the buzz around me after the concert (which was an amazing concert) when it became obvious most didn't know Arnel and it was all positive. All I heard either many said he sounded like Perry or that Perry was better but he was great, fantastic singer, whatever. They were at a nice concert and went home all liqoured up, in the mood, b/c of Faithfully and nostalgia over music of their youth, to have sex, not to run home and dig around for a CD they probably have no idea where it is and do a song-to-song comparison.

Don't change the facts. I'm not talking about going to a concert for the express purpose of doing a comparison. I actually stated very clearly that this was not necessary, thanks to the retreads...but that for anyone to do such a comparison prior to the retreads, it would have to be live...which isn't something that I would expect anyone to want to do. Don't put words in my mouth...

make your case with straight points culled from my words, not inventive interpretations of them.

[kgdjpubs]

you guys are sort of missing the point here. A lot of these fans who like Arnel better weren't even born when ROR was released, and were pretty young for Trial By Fire. Perry's ancient history to them. They never saw him live. For that matter, the last time he performed live they were about 5 years old. Perry is a ghost. The band has been around long enough that there are people who grew up on Augeri or now, Arnel.

Believe it or not, there is a young contingent who likes Journey. There was a young girl (ie ~13) behind me this year who knew every word to the hits. That's someone who may not have even been born the last time Perry released a Journey song. She knew the songs though. Sounds to me like a fan.

I see your point....but this isn't like picking the Bond that you grew up with as the best.

Two things are happening....they're buying revelations on account of radio play of old classics...(which I don't think is happening more than the later point) or they are buying GH based on radio play of old classics (which is more plausable).

Even if they've never seen perry....there's a good chance they are familiar with his voice more than they are with Arnel's ....therefore the same rules apply. Sure, you've got your Pinoy army thats on the boat because of arnel, not because of journey or perry...and they're buying rev first...and if they so desire, the rest of the back catalog.

But the majority of people that are getting into Journey these days are doing so because of airplay on classic rock radio or the sopranos. That's Perry's voice on there....


...they pop in the retreads and they're going to want to know why it sounds different.

Maybe so, maybe not. I'm sure there is some contingent of unknown size (probably young in age) who hears Don't Stop Believin' on The Sopranos, buys Revelation (which has the greatest hits and DSB + dvd for a cheap price), and that's the end of their Journey purchases. For a casual fan, they already have the GH set with Revelation...why buy it again?!?

Now, basic economics says your thoughts of people rediscovering that Journey is still around via whatever medium (Sopranos, Radio, concert) is probably the main factor here. They liked Journey, liked Perry, and figure Arnel is "good enough". For those, they may have the greatest hits, they may not. either way though, they see new Journey cd (Revelation) and buy it. Either way, band sells a cd.

For what it's worth though, it would be interesting to see a sales comparison of GH vs. Revelation sales.

[Jana]

I kept listening to the buzz around me after the concert (which was an amazing concert) when it became obvious most didn't know Arnel and it was all positive. All I heard either many said he sounded like Perry or that Perry was better but he was great, fantastic singer, whatever. They were at a nice concert and went home all liqoured up, in the mood, b/c of Faithfully and nostalgia over music of their youth, to have sex, not to run home and dig around for a CD they probably have no idea where it is and do a song-to-song comparison.

Don't change the facts. I'm not talking about going to a concert for the express purpose of doing a comparison. I actually stated very clearly that this was not necessary, thanks to the retreads...but that for anyone to do such a comparison prior to the retreads, it would have to be live...which isn't something that I would expect anyone to want to do. Don't put words in my mouth...

make your case with straight points culled from my words, not inventive interpretations of them.

Well, you didn't quote what I was replying to, which was Ligzig's comment and I was agreeing with him.


Okay. I will address your statement:

"But the run of the mill fan who is less invested, will want to compare the two out of curiosity alone.
Once that happens, Arnel's as good as dead...because he's being compared to the greatest singer on the planet in his prime. Not even close..."

That was your over-the-top statement that had no merit. Revelation as been out for over a year and already sold that majority of its CDs. The CD has been out and sold 1,000,000 copies already, so whatever comparisons that are going on by run-of-the-mill fans who are less invested, as you said, hasn't caused to happen what you said Arnel is as good as dead. I'm sure that happens. But I believe most just aren't that invested to care whether he is as good as Perry on the re-records b/c Arnel obviously has a great voice and does justice to the songs (especially songs like OTY and SW) and it will pique their interest enough to go to a concert and see Journey and have a great time.

[bluejeangirl76]

Two things are happening....they're buying revelations on account of radio play of old classics...(which I don't think is happening more than the later point) or they are buying GH based on radio play of old classics (which is more plausable).

Yes. My last visit to Walmart - which was this past Saturday - there was one GH left sitting, and FIVE of Revelation. Don't anyone claim "they must have just restocked"... this has been the case at all the Walmarts and Sam's Clubs I've been to, different times of the week, different times of day... they always seem to have ample copies hanging around. Target and Best Buy never seem to have more than 2 or 3 of GH sitting around, and on a typical restock, these places put up 10-12 at a time on the endcaps and the rest in the regular section.

That's another thing... GH is nearly always on an endcap as well as in the "J" section. At Best Buy the endcaps go in cycles depending on who and what they're promotion but at Target, they keep an endcap of Greatest Hits discs which always includes Journey AND they keep and endcap of Sony's "Essentials" library of artists and this also includes Journey. There is demand for these. I've not seen that once at walmart with Revelation, even when it was new...

But last Saturday... where did Walmart have GH stocked? There were none left in the "J"s (but there were copies of Escape, Arrival and even the FIRST album, "Journey"!) and the one GH left in stock was on the top row (the first row right under the current "new CD promo" that is) of the best sellers section right along with Michael Jacson CDs. A photo was even taken of this.

More people are buying the GH and Essential discs.

[Ligzig]

Well, you didn't quote what I was replying to, which was Behshad's comment and I was agreeing with him.

Ahem.

...nvm.

[Behshad]

Well, you didn't quote what I was replying to, which was Behshad's comment and I was agreeing with him.

Ahem.

...nvm.

[Ligzig]

More people are buying the GH and Essential discs.

This will how it will continue to be. The hardcore followers are outnumbered.

[bluejeangirl76]

More people are buying the GH and Essential discs.

This will how it will continue to be. The hardcore followers are outnumbered.

I just wonder how much (if any) influence that blue sticker on the GH cd is having. The one that says "...featuring the original members of Journey..." (translation: featuring the original singer, which Sony isn't dumb enough to put on there but we all know that's what they mean... ).

I can't imagine it has much at all to do with it, since GH was 14x platinum already, long before the arrival of Arnel or the release of Revelation, but I still think it's funny, especially since Walmart has all those copies of Rev sitting around and just one of GH left with that sticker on it.

[Jana]

Well, you didn't quote what I was replying to, which was Ligzig's comment and I was agreeing with him.

Ahem.

...nvm.

Oops. I didn't go back far enough. I actually couldn't believe B was saying that.

[Behshad]

Well, you didn't quote what I was replying to, which was Ligzig's comment and I was agreeing with him.

Ahem.

...nvm.

Oops. I didn't go back far enough. I actually couldn't believe B was saying that.

Sorry

[Rip Rokken]

Awesome post, ttango1.

If I recall correctly, you actually preferred one of the re-records to the original. I forget which it was though, but the post is in one of the original threads about them. So that has to say something for them!

[strangegrey]

But the run of the mill fan who is less invested, will want to compare the two out of curiosity alone.
Once that happens, Arnel's as good as dead...because he's being compared to the greatest singer on the planet in his prime. Not even close...

That was your over-the-top statement that had no merit.

Um, Yes. I'll admit. Over the top!! without a doubt.... without merit? Listen, it's an expression. "as good as dead" like "dead in the water" doesn't mean anything in the absolute. It means, you can't go back, you cant go forward. Is he as good as dead, literally?, across the board as soon as one fan makes the comparison? No!! But once the impression is shattered, it's going to be hard to come back from that. That's what I'm refering to.

Revelation as been out for over a year and already sold that majority of its CDs. The CD has been out and sold 1,000,000 copies...

Stop!!!!

Until it's certified 2x platium....which it is currently NOT....(http://www.riaa.org/goldandplatinumdata ... ble=SEARCH)...they haven't sold a million coppies. Last I checked, they're somewhere between 7-850k. I know there are some people out there that are desperate to see it go to 1 mil so they can heap on the 'validation' but let's not spew lies as fact...ok?

Regardless, the band has had success with Arnel...Who am I to argue with that. But until Revelation sells anywhere close to Frontiers, GH or Escape....Arnel isn't going to have the validation everyone here is hoping for.

If the retreads or revelation were as good as some of the folk here tout....then the record would be certified 6 or 8 platinum (which is really equal to the sales of 3-4 platinum)...but it hasn't. Creative accounting and a cheap walmart price got the CD over the platinum hump. That's not a validation yet....