Perry wishes the band well!

[Ehwmatt]

The suggestion that many who bought "Revelation" purchased their first Journey album with that purchase is simply moronic! I would venture to guess that the vast majority of so-called fans who made "Revelation" their first Journey purchase bought it simply because of Arnel, and those aren't Journey fans. If you never paid attention to this band when they had the greatest singer on the planet, you're not allowed to call yourself a Journey fan, as far as I'm concerned.

Yep to the bold

you guys are sort of missing the point here. A lot of these fans who like Arnel better weren't even born when ROR was released, and were pretty young for Trial By Fire. Perry's ancient history to them. They never saw him live. For that matter, the last time he performed live they were about 5 years old. Perry is a ghost. The band has been around long enough that there are people who grew up on Augeri or now, Arnel.

Believe it or not, there is a young contingent who likes Journey. There was a young girl (ie ~13) behind me this year who knew every word to the hits. That's someone who may not have even been born the last time Perry released a Journey song. She knew the songs though. Sounds to me like a fan.

Am I missing something here? If a 13-yr old knows all the words to a hit song (originated by SP), then yes she is Journey fan, not just an AP fan.

yes, but one who--due to age--never paid attention to the band with Perry as a singer. THAT was the point.

I don't think that's what John meant at all by his comment. I'm 23, I'm a "younger" fan, I never got a chance to see SP live. I was born in the year of RoR, basically their swan song at least so far as touring is concerned. Yet, I know ALL about the legacy, I certainly know all about the songs, and everything else. It's not a dick measuring contest at all, but merely a question of respect for what came before.

John was aiming his comment at Arneliots that pretend like SP was never there. You know, the people who run around here simultaneously munching Arnel's asshole and proclaiming themselves great fans of Journey without knowing crucial songs in the band's back catalogue and likely not even knowing the back story behind the band's history or at the bare minimum, respecting the legacy SP and the guys made that has given Arnel his shot. You do realize there have been absolute mental midget retards that have proudly proclaimed they will not buy anything from early SP era? I mean how the fuck are we supposed to take those people seriously?

I don't think anyone here would begrudge someone who discovered Journey because of Arnel, has developed a healthy respect for the back catalogue and the legacy, and doesn't sit there acting like half the band's output never existed. Trouble is, a person fitting that criteria is hard to come by round these parts or anywhere on the Internet.

[kgdjpubs]

I don't think that's what John meant at all by his comment. I'm 23, I'm a "younger" fan, I never got a chance to see SP live. I was born in the year of RoR, basically their swan song at least so far as touring is concerned. Yet, I know ALL about the legacy, I certainly know all about the songs, and everything else. It's not a dick measuring contest at all, but merely a question of respect for what came before.

John was aiming his comment at Arneliots that pretend like SP was never there. You know, the people who run around here simultaneously munching Arnel's asshole and proclaiming themselves great fans of Journey without knowing crucial songs in the band's back catalogue and likely not even knowing the back story behind the band's history or at the bare minimum, respecting the legacy SP and the guys made that has given Arnel his shot.

I'm not really sure you have to know the history down to the smallest detail to be a fan. There are going to be the fans that think Journey is pre-Perry and hate the popular stuff. There's going to be the Rolie fans who won't listen to stuff after he left. There's going to be Perry fans that couldn't care less about Augeri/Arnel. There are going to be the Augeri fans who liked Arrival and stuff, and don't think the back catalogue measures up to what was done on those albums.

Yes....there are going to be the Arnel fans who never cared for Journey before he joined, and are following the band because of him. With Arnel bringing the band into territories that previously didn't care for Journey, you're going to get those more and more often. With the band achieving some amount of success with Arnel, he's bringing fans of his own into the field. In the end, you get the same kind of stuff that happens with Van Halen. The Sammy Hagar fans don't know--or care--about the DLR material aside from the hits that would likely get played live.

I know where you guys are coming from, but you don't have to love everything the band has done (or even have heard it) to be a fan of the band.

You do realize there have been absolute mental midget retards that have proudly proclaimed they will not buy anything from early SP era? I mean how the fuck are we supposed to take those people seriously?

I don't know. With the exception of the Time 3 box set (of which I have barely listened to Disc 1), I don't own the pre-Perry albums, nor do I plan on rushing out to buy them. Musically, it's just not something I'm dying to hear. I have the early Perry albums, and probably couldn't hum the melody to half the tunes on Departure, and probably 1/4 to 1/3 of Evolution. Haven't heard virtually anything of whatever the soundtrack for that Japanese movie that they did. I know, and prefer, the later material. I don't expect people to take me seriously either, but such is life.

I don't think anyone here would begrudge someone who discovered Journey because of Arnel, has developed a healthy respect for the back catalogue and the legacy, and doesn't sit there acting like half the band's output never existed. Trouble is, a person fitting that criteria is hard to come by round these parts or anywhere on the Internet.

You're going to have to be pretty diehard to go track down every album, where half of the songs have a very slim chance of being played live ever again. You can't blame someone for not recognizing every song they have done. A lot of them have the greatest hits, which shows MOST of the songs you will hear in the live arena. For someone new coming into the band, and following the new singer, that's what I would suggest also. Safe to say, anything from the pre-Cain era would probably be at least #3 on the to-buy list (after GH, Escape, Frontiers).

[Ehwmatt]

Never said you had to own the pre-Perry albums... you misread that, I said early SP stuff, as in albums like Evolution, Departure, and Infinity that came before the big break w/ Escape. Nor did I say you had to know every song or even more absurdly, like/enjoy every one. I could list fifteen songs I'll never listen to again from Journey right now. You're taking all of my arguments to their most extreme logical conclusions.

Like I said, if people came into the fold because of Arnel, JSS, SA, or SP, it doesn't matter, that's fine and great for the band. But to run around proclaiming yourself a Journey fan and sit there and say you won't even give half the Perry material a chance, let alone enjoy it, that's just a load of bullshit. If they listen to it and don't enjoy a single song, fine. But to willfully be ignorant of it, be proud of that willful ignorance, and still have the balls to call yourself a fan is ludicrous.

EDIT: Re: The pre-Perry albums, I'd never begrudge anyone for not liking those. I enjoy them, but I'm a musician and a proghead so they have a lot more innate appeal to me. I fully understand why people wouldn't want to listen to songs like Kohoutek or Nickel & Dime. But, the Perry stuff is what got the whole train rolling and kept the "Journey" going to this day, you have to at least respect it.

[Enigma869]

you don't have to love everything the band has done (or even have heard it) to be a fan of the band.

For the record, I certainly never suggested that someone had to like EVERYTHING the band has put out. I'm happy to report that I've been a diehard Journey fan since the late 70's and to this date haven't heard one single track from any of their pre-Perry albums and have zero desire to listen to any of it! What I did say is that I don't view someone as a Journey fan if "Revelation" is the one and only Journey purchase they've ever made. That's simply not possible. At the end of the day, regardless of how "successful" some claim Journey is these days, "Revelation" is a CD full of VERY obscure music, when compared to the rest of the catalog!

[kgdjpubs]

Never said you had to own the pre-Perry albums... you misread that, I said early SP stuff, as in albums like Evolution, Departure, and Infinity that came before the big break w/ Escape. Nor did I say you had to know every song or even more absurdly, like/enjoy every one. I could list fifteen songs I'll never listen to again from Journey right now. You're taking all of my arguments to their most extreme logical conclusions.

you mean that wasn't the point?

Like I said, if people came into the fold because of Arnel, JSS, SA, or SP, it doesn't matter, that's fine and great for the band. But to run around proclaiming yourself a Journey fan and sit there and say you won't even give half the Perry material a chance, let alone enjoy it, that's just a load of bullshit. If they listen to it and don't enjoy a single song, fine. But to willfully be ignorant of it, be proud of that willful ignorance, and still have the balls to call yourself a fan is ludicrous.

ok, so let's turn this into a positive here for anybody that might still be reading that isn't up on the early material (say pre-Escape) that you can't find on the Greatest Hits. What is required listening? Just the Same Way? Anytime? Stay Awhile? The Party's Over? What else would one suggest? One should be able to find 99% of this online in some form or another.

[kgdjpubs]

you don't have to love everything the band has done (or even have heard it) to be a fan of the band.

For the record, I certainly never suggested that someone had to like EVERYTHING the band has put out. I'm happy to report that I've been a diehard Journey fan since the late 70's and to this date haven't heard one single track from any of their pre-Perry albums and have zero desire to listen to any of it! What I did say is that I don't view someone as a Journey fan if "Revelation" is the one and only Journey purchase they've ever made. That's simply not possible. At the end of the day, regardless of how "successful" some claim Journey is these days, "Revelation" is a CD full of VERY obscure music, when compared to the rest of the catalog!

yes, but most people who ONLY have Revelation (whatever small percentage that is) bought it for Arnel's voice. They, therefore, have heard the re-records (and dvd) also. That means they aren't quite as ignorant on the band's past as one might think. You could make the argument that they would be Arnel fans first, and Journey fans second, but to say they aren't fans is pushing it.

btw....does anyone know how successful Revelation was in the Philipines? Did they get any hits from it there?