So, if you were a naysayer but changed your mind?

[Pelata]

Herbie Herbert bringing Perry out of the chicken coops and matching him up w/ Neal Schon was amazing timing for Perry AND Schon...add in Jon Cain and it's lightning in a bottle (for all the good songs before Cain joined, Journey were nowhere near as popular until Cain came in). It's that combination that made Journey what it became. Had Rollie stayed, Escape would have been a very different album and probably not gone #1. Had Robert Fleischman stayed, Infinity would not have been what it was. Had Schon & Rollie stayed in Santana there would be no Journey at all.

My point is that it's no single person that made Journey as we worship it...it was the chemistry created in the combination of Schon/Perry/Cain. Take any one of them out and it all falls apart. No Perry, no "Patiently"...no Cain, no "Open Arms" (and no #1 album)...no Schon, no Journey.

Yes and plug in the subs and you get a tribute band that plays the DD...and that is the point...these three band memebers from the Perry/Schon/Cain years are not replaceable....and that is the facts even if many here don't or won't admit to it...including Mr. Schon himself!

I agree to a point...the chemistry changes and the magic changes...they've still managed to make good music Perry-less, but as much as I like Augeri and his 2 albums, I'll still admit that as good as it is and as much as I do enjoy it, it's not the same...

Part of me...PART of me...wishes that Cain & Schon did what Perry asked...go play whatever you want with whoever you want, just don't call it Journey...I think if they had done that, Perry would have come back after a while...but I do love Arrival & Generations (most of it, anyway)...

Sadly, I don't believe Perry would ever have come back to Journey, ever. Look at the past 13 years as evidence of what he would have done. Journey had every right to keep the name since Neal started the band and put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it for years even b/f Perry. I get that some will never feel that way. That's fine.

I don't think Perry's inactivity is indicative of what would have happened had Schon/Cain did another Bad English album or something and not replaced him. But, it's all speculation and what we have is what we have. Schon/Perry/Cain will remain legend no matter what.

Absolute, legend. What's indicative is after '86 he never toured or wrote with them for almost ten years and worked on his solo stuff twice and toured. Sony pushed him and hewrote an album with Journey and never toured. I don't think he was that interested in Journey since '86. I always say TBF was a nice bonus. He hasn't toured with them for 23 years and this is a band that likes to play in front of audiences. Good for them. Perry seems happy.

This is true...

[Rick]

I have a question regarding the current lineup. Journey had never sounded as much like Journey since Steve Perry left, as they do now. SA and JSS are both good men and good singers. Was there this much division between fans here on MR when SA and JSS were in the band as there is now? I wasn't on MR prior to Arnel so I really don't know for sure but it feels like there is more division among peeps with this lineup. If so, why? Is it possible that Arnel is so close that he hits a nerve?

Oh yeah. You had the Perry crowd, who are "The Loons". You had the Augeri crowd, who were called "The Wigglers", and you had the Soto crowd, who had several names, I liked "Soto Locos". But, yeah, there was bickering amongst the divisions. Constant.

[Escape81]

Everyone contributed a piece to the puzzle that is Journey... for the big three (Neal, Jon & Steve), each offered a great deal of success... if it wasn't for Neal, Journey wouldn't be here. Steve's vocals changed the dynamic from prog rock to mainstream rock and Jon perfected it with his songwriting skills. Seems like Neal is the foundation and Steve & Jon were the four walls and ceiling... why try to diminish what all THREE had to offer?

[Pelata]

Everyone contributed a piece to the puzzle that is Journey... for the big three (Neal, Jon & Steve), each offered a great deal of success... if it wasn't for Neal, Journey wouldn't be here. Steve's vocals changed the dynamic from prog rock to mainstream rock and Jon perfected it with his songwriting skills. Seems like Neal is the foundation and Steve & Jon were the four walls and ceiling... why try to diminish what all THREE had to offer?

Agreed.

[Sarah]

I have a question regarding the current lineup. Journey had never sounded as much like Journey since Steve Perry left, as they do now. SA and JSS are both good men and good singers. Was there this much division between fans here on MR when SA and JSS were in the band as there is now? I wasn't on MR prior to Arnel so I really don't know for sure but it feels like there is more division among peeps with this lineup. If so, why? Is it possible that Arnel is so close that he hits a nerve?

It was worse when Augeri was in the band. JSS was better, I think, cause at least some Perry-only fans seemed to think he was ok (not a copycat).

[Jana]

I have a question regarding the current lineup. Journey had never sounded as much like Journey since Steve Perry left, as they do now. SA and JSS are both good men and good singers. Was there this much division between fans here on MR when SA and JSS were in the band as there is now? I wasn't on MR prior to Arnel so I really don't know for sure but it feels like there is more division among peeps with this lineup. If so, why? Is it possible that Arnel is so close that he hits a nerve?

It was worse when Augeri was in the band. JSS was better, I think, cause at least some Perry-only fans seemed to think he was ok (not a copycat).

I thought the Loons weren't allowed to loon too much on here when Augeri was with the band, and this board was very pro Augeri until the last year or two when the problems arose with the tapegate. No?

[Enigma869]

Journey sounded a lot more like Journey on Arrival

Not in my world, they didn't! I personally like "Arrival", but it was never "Journey" to me. Without the soaring vocals (And Augeri wasn't remotely capable of getting close to that), it's simply not the identifiable Journey sound.

[Escape81]

Everyone contributed a piece to the puzzle that is Journey... for the big three (Neal, Jon & Steve), each offered a great deal of success... if it wasn't for Neal, Journey wouldn't be here. Steve's vocals changed the dynamic from prog rock to mainstream rock and Jon perfected it with his songwriting skills. Seems like Neal is the foundation and Steve & Jon were the four walls and ceiling... why try to diminish what all THREE had to offer?

Agreed.

Good to hear! It looks like everyone seems to have some sort of agenda... to flaunt or puff up the importance of one member over another... I agree that ANY of them are more important than, say, Ross (no offense to Ross fans!)... but the big three each offered something amazing to the band. We'd all be silly not to acknowledge it.

[Jana]

Everyone contributed a piece to the puzzle that is Journey... for the big three (Neal, Jon & Steve), each offered a great deal of success... if it wasn't for Neal, Journey wouldn't be here. Steve's vocals changed the dynamic from prog rock to mainstream rock and Jon perfected it with his songwriting skills. Seems like Neal is the foundation and Steve & Jon were the four walls and ceiling... why try to diminish what all THREE had to offer?

Agreed.

Good to hear! It looks like everyone seems to have some sort of agenda... to flaunt or puff up the importance of one member over another... I agree that ANY of them are more important than, say, Ross (no offense to Ross fans!)... but the big three each offered something amazing to the band. We'd all be silly not to acknowledge it.

Not me.

[Escape81]

Everyone contributed a piece to the puzzle that is Journey... for the big three (Neal, Jon & Steve), each offered a great deal of success... if it wasn't for Neal, Journey wouldn't be here. Steve's vocals changed the dynamic from prog rock to mainstream rock and Jon perfected it with his songwriting skills. Seems like Neal is the foundation and Steve & Jon were the four walls and ceiling... why try to diminish what all THREE had to offer?

Agreed.

Good to hear! It looks like everyone seems to have some sort of agenda... to flaunt or puff up the importance of one member over another... I agree that ANY of them are more important than, say, Ross (no offense to Ross fans!)... but the big three each offered something amazing to the band. We'd all be silly not to acknowledge it.

Not me.

Well I probably shouldnt generalize..... so I apologize. But all I know is I love all eras of Journey! Admittedly, though, I haven't listened to any of the pre vocal albums.

[Jana]

Everyone contributed a piece to the puzzle that is Journey... for the big three (Neal, Jon & Steve), each offered a great deal of success... if it wasn't for Neal, Journey wouldn't be here. Steve's vocals changed the dynamic from prog rock to mainstream rock and Jon perfected it with his songwriting skills. Seems like Neal is the foundation and Steve & Jon were the four walls and ceiling... why try to diminish what all THREE had to offer?

Agreed.

Good to hear! It looks like everyone seems to have some sort of agenda... to flaunt or puff up the importance of one member over another... I agree that ANY of them are more important than, say, Ross (no offense to Ross fans!)... but the big three each offered something amazing to the band. We'd all be silly not to acknowledge it.

Not me.

Well I probably shouldnt generalize..... so I apologize. But all I know is I love all eras of Journey! Admittedly, though, I haven't listened to any of the pre vocal albums.

No, it was a tongue-in-cheek answer. A few on here would say I try to elevate Neal over another member. Don't believe them. They're evil.

[Chubby321]

Perry was not doing anything significant before Journey and you can say the same with the band.

Put together, they created magic.

Study your history just a tad better, Chubbs!! He had just lost a bandmate and was
back on the farm, but what was happening prior to that?!?!?

And YES they did!!! Good girl...have you been listening?!?!?

Then you just proved my point, nothing significant was going on with Perry at that time.

Well, according to his bio, Alien project band seemed to be the band that would give him a big break but the bassist died and Perry took it hard and decided to stop his singing career. But we wouldn't know the result right?

[Michigan Girl]

Perry was not doing anything significant before Journey and you can say the same with the band.

Put together, they created magic.

Study your history just a tad better, Chubbs!! He had just lost a bandmate and was
back on the farm, but what was happening prior to that?!?!?

And YES they did!!! Good girl...have you been listening?!?!?

Then you just proved my point, nothing significant was going on with Perry at that time.

Well, according to his bio, Alien project band seemed to be the band that would give him a big break but the bassist died and Perry took it hard and decided to stop his singing career. But we wouldn't know the result right?

What you said, "Perry was not doing anything significant before Journey." Now you are stating at the time which makes
much more sense to me!!!
BTW~ A couple of those band members were part of Santana prior to Journey and I don't think
they would consider that insignificant.

I'm growing prouder of you by the moment!!!

[Enigma869]

Perry was not doing anything significant before Journey and you can say the same with the band.

While that is an absolute factual statement, which would you rather listen to and which one sounds like Journey to you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnaPrIBjHh0 this???? or this .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ-mHqw7XfE

[Chubby321]

Perry was not doing anything significant before Journey and you can say the same with the band.

Put together, they created magic.

Study your history just a tad better, Chubbs!! He had just lost a bandmate and was
back on the farm, but what was happening prior to that?!?!?

And YES they did!!! Good girl...have you been listening?!?!?

Then you just proved my point, nothing significant was going on with Perry at that time.

Well, according to his bio, Alien project band seemed to be the band that would give him a big break but the bassist died and Perry took it hard and decided to stop his singing career. But we wouldn't know the result right?

What you said, "Perry was not doing anything significant before Journey." Now you are stating at the time which makes
much more sense to me!!!

I'm growing prouder of you by the moment!!!

You used to be a woman of a few "acronyms"

Luv yah MG.

[Michigan Girl]

Perry was not doing anything significant before Journey and you can say the same with the band.

While that is an absolute factual statement, which would you rather listen to and which one sounds like Journey to you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnaPrIBjHh0 this???? or this .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ-mHqw7XfE

oops, I misunderstood, I thought she was talking pre-Journey for all members.
I was thinking more along the lines of Santana!!

[Sarah]

I have a question regarding the current lineup. Journey had never sounded as much like Journey since Steve Perry left, as they do now. SA and JSS are both good men and good singers. Was there this much division between fans here on MR when SA and JSS were in the band as there is now? I wasn't on MR prior to Arnel so I really don't know for sure but it feels like there is more division among peeps with this lineup. If so, why? Is it possible that Arnel is so close that he hits a nerve?

It was worse when Augeri was in the band. JSS was better, I think, cause at least some Perry-only fans seemed to think he was ok (not a copycat).

I thought the Loons weren't allowed to loon too much on here when Augeri was with the band, and this board was very pro Augeri until the last year or two when the problems arose with the tapegate. No?

I'm referring to the ongoing Perry vs Augeri wars everywhere (Perry boards, Augeri boards, Back Talk) way before that Tapegate business. I guess steveo was only talking about MR, so I dunno.

[RocknRoll]

I have a question regarding the current lineup. Journey had never sounded as much like Journey since Steve Perry left, as they do now. SA and JSS are both good men and good singers. Was there this much division between fans here on MR when SA and JSS were in the band as there is now? I wasn't on MR prior to Arnel so I really don't know for sure but it feels like there is more division among peeps with this lineup. If so, why? Is it possible that Arnel is so close that he hits a nerve?

It was worse when Augeri was in the band. JSS was better, I think, cause at least some Perry-only fans seemed to think he was ok (not a copycat).

I thought the Loons weren't allowed to loon too much on here when Augeri was with the band, and this board was very pro Augeri until the last year or two when the problems arose with the tapegate. No?

I'm referring to the ongoing Perry vs Augeri wars everywhere (Perry boards, Augeri boards, Back Talk) way before that Tapegate business. I guess steveo was only talking about MR, so I dunno.

Things were pretty ugly on MR back in the 2000-2003 days as well and there was the VH1 board. Glad some posters were permanently banned here.

[Cleveland Steamer!]

No need to apologize for hating this new Journey shit!

Go fuck yourself troll.

Who is it, Rick?!?!?

Not sure. Just a troll. Nobody comes to a Journey forum with an avatar that big and a sig like that and posts that shit without being someone who's just looking to piss off the board. Some people just need to get a life.

Hey, what did I say?
I don't want to piss anybody off!

Except maybe you. You sound like a real douche. Go fist fuck yourself.

[Ehwmatt]

No need to apologize for hating this new Journey shit!

Go fuck yourself troll.

Who is it, Rick?!?!?

Not sure. Just a troll. Nobody comes to a Journey forum with an avatar that big and a sig like that and posts that shit without being someone who's just looking to piss off the board. Some people just need to get a life.

Hey, what did I say?
I don't want to piss anybody off!

Except maybe you. You sound like a real douche. Go fist fuck yourself.

LOL, Cleveland's finest. Where do you live

[Cleveland Steamer!]

No need to apologize for hating this new Journey shit!

Go fuck yourself troll.

Who is it, Rick?!?!?

Not sure. Just a troll. Nobody comes to a Journey forum with an avatar that big and a sig like that and posts that shit without being someone who's just looking to piss off the board. Some people just need to get a life.

Hey, what did I say?
I don't want to piss anybody off!

Except maybe you. You sound like a real douche. Go fist fuck yourself.

LOL, Cleveland's finest. Where do you live

What's up, Em!
I live in Youngstown now. Originally from East Cleveland.

[WalkInMyShoes]

What's up, Em!
I live in Youngstown now. Originally from East Cleveland.

Is that like south Detroit?

[Enigma869]

Except maybe you. You sound like a real douche. Go fist fuck yourself.

Listen...I have no fucking clue what a "Cleveland Steamer" is and really don't give a fuck. That said, your avatar is way too fucking big, so you should probably dial it down a bit before Drew comes in here a bitch slaps you. On another note...It's always nice to have another person from that AWFUL sports city on board here! Now I can slap you and Matt around

[Ehwmatt]

What's up, Em!
I live in Youngstown now. Originally from East Cleveland.

Is that like south Detroit?

East Cleveland is VERY real my friend

[Ehwmatt]

Except maybe you. You sound like a real douche. Go fist fuck yourself.

Listen...I have no fucking clue what a "Cleveland Steamer" is and really don't give a fuck. That said, your avatar is way too fucking big, so you should probably dial it down a bit before Drew comes in here a bitch slaps you. On another note...It's always nice to have another person from that AWFUL sports city on board here! Now I can slap you and Matt around

Keep thinkin that Johnboy

Ready for the Big Aristotle to send KG into a crumpled heap in 6 days?

[Cleveland Steamer!]

Except maybe you. You sound like a real douche. Go fist fuck yourself.

Listen...I have no fucking clue what a "Cleveland Steamer" is and really don't give a fuck. That said, your avatar is way too fucking big, so you should probably dial it down a bit before Drew comes in here a bitch slaps you. On another note...It's always nice to have another person from that AWFUL sports city on board here! Now I can slap you and Matt around

Alright - I changed it to something more appropriate. BTW, a "Cleveland Steamer" is exactly what the Indians and Browns eat on a daily basis.

[Enigma869]

Ready for the Big Aristotle to send KG into a crumpled heap in 6 days?

Honestly, O'Neal doesn't scare me at all. KG is way too agile and quick for Shaq to even keep up with him on the court. That said, at least Cleveland has one sports team that needs to be taken remotely seriously. Even before the season starts, there are only two teams in the east who can win it all...Cleveland and Boston. It should be a fun season. The NBA champion will be Boston, Cleveland, San Antonio, or the Lakers!

[Ehwmatt]

Ready for the Big Aristotle to send KG into a crumpled heap in 6 days?

Honestly, O'Neal doesn't scare me at all. KG is way too agile in quick for Shaq to even keep up with him on the court. That said, at least Cleveland has one sports team that needs to be taken remotely seriously. Even before the season starts, there are only two teams in the east who can win it all...Cleveland and Boston. It should be a fun season. The NBA champion will be Boston, Cleveland, San Antonio, or the Lakers!

I agree. I have a feeling the Spurs are being taken WAY too lightly, contingent on Duncan's effectiveness this year, which remains to be seen (let's face it, Mr. Fundamentals isn't getting any younger). LA is still very tough but they are not a foregone conclusion.

I will be shocked if the Magic come anywhere near duplicating last year's success and I wouldn't be surprised to see a team like Chicago come into the playoffs with a higher seed.

[Rick]

No need to apologize for hating this new Journey shit!

Go fuck yourself troll.

Who is it, Rick?!?!?

Not sure. Just a troll. Nobody comes to a Journey forum with an avatar that big and a sig like that and posts that shit without being someone who's just looking to piss off the board. Some people just need to get a life.

Hey, what did I say?
I don't want to piss anybody off!

Except maybe you. You sound like a real douche. Go fist fuck yourself.

You don't come on a Journey forum, call what they're doing "shit", and not expect to get bitch slapped moron.

[steveo777]

No need to apologize for hating this new Journey shit!

Go fuck yourself troll.

Who is it, Rick?!?!?

Not sure. Just a troll. Nobody comes to a Journey forum with an avatar that big and a sig like that and posts that shit without being someone who's just looking to piss off the board. Some people just need to get a life.

Hey, what did I say?
I don't want to piss anybody off!

Except maybe you. You sound like a real douche. Go fist fuck yourself.

You don't come on a Journey forum, call what they're doing "shit", and not expect to get bitch slapped moron.

Which retread is this?