So, if you were a naysayer but changed your mind?

[Michigan Girl]

Except maybe you. You sound like a real douche. Go fist fuck yourself.

Listen...I have no fucking clue what a "Cleveland Steamer" is and really don't give a fuck. That said, your avatar is way too fucking big, so you should probably dial it down a bit before Drew comes in here a bitch slaps you. On another note...It's always nice to have another person from that AWFUL sports city on board here! Now I can slap you and Matt around

Alright - I changed it to something more appropriate. BTW, a "Cleveland Steamer" is exactly what the Indians and Browns eat on a daily basis.

Geez, you went from one extreme to another, some of can't see so well!!

[Rick]

No need to apologize for hating this new Journey shit!

Go fuck yourself troll.

Who is it, Rick?!?!?

Not sure. Just a troll. Nobody comes to a Journey forum with an avatar that big and a sig like that and posts that shit without being someone who's just looking to piss off the board. Some people just need to get a life.

Hey, what did I say?
I don't want to piss anybody off!

Except maybe you. You sound like a real douche. Go fist fuck yourself.

You don't come on a Journey forum, call what they're doing "shit", and not expect to get bitch slapped moron.

Which retread is this?

Sure fits that mold, huh?

[fredinator]

Neal + Guitar = Journey

Here is a pre-Perry song, all Journey, all Neal, awesome rocker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IXZo2OJiP8

There would be no Perry, no Journey without Neal.

[Jana]

Neal + Guitar = Journey

Here is a pre-Perry song, all Journey, all Neal, awesome rocker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IXZo2OJiP8

There would be no Perry, no Journey without Neal.

Yep.

Listen to Patiently. Patiently, without Neal's brilliant guitar, is an old-fashioned pop song, beautiful vocals, but never fit for a rock band's album and would be too sugary sweet for me, vocals or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yCGz7Khpms

[fredinator]

*Sigh* I love your avatar Jana; also Steveo's--Neal hardly ever takes a pic without one of his guitars. The solos on For You are just awesome--I've got it on repeat... I just don't think anybody else rocks the way Neal does.

[portland]

Neal + Guitar = Journey

Here is a pre-Perry song, all Journey, all Neal, awesome rocker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IXZo2OJiP8

There would be no Perry, no Journey without Neal.

It goes both ways on that quote......


No Perry = No Journey of Today = NO DD

Sorry but that is the truth....unless you are a fan of instrumentals

[fredinator]

Actually, I really like Fleischman, too--he co-wrote some of their biggest hits of the 70s... Maybe he doesn't get the recognition he deserves either.

[fredinator]

Neal + Guitar = Journey

Here is a pre-Perry song, all Journey, all Neal, awesome rocker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IXZo2OJiP8

There would be no Perry, no Journey without Neal.

It goes both ways on that quote......


No Perry = No Journey of Today = NO DD

Sorry but that is the truth....unless you are a fan of instrumentals

Well that is your reality since Journey to you = the DD. I'm a fan of Journey before there was a dirty dozen. I actually love the 70s hits more than the arena rock hits. Neal was there for both eras and cowrote most of the songs, therefore, Neal = Journey.

[Jana]

Neal + Guitar = Journey

Here is a pre-Perry song, all Journey, all Neal, awesome rocker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IXZo2OJiP8

There would be no Perry, no Journey without Neal.

It goes both ways on that quote......


No Perry = No Journey of Today = NO DD

Sorry but that is the truth....unless you are a fan of instrumentals

No Neal, Perry still on Turkey Farm. No Cain, not as many DDs for sure. No Perry, Neal still touring with Journey or someone, but no megabuster Journey. Perry said they never accomplished elsewhere what they did together. Yep.

[fredinator]

These songs (Patiently) would not be nearly as beautiful if some other guitarist played them. Can you imagine? I was thinking about "Liberty" the other day--can you imagine if someone else played that song other than Neal? He really is the life and heart of the band.

[portland]

Neal + Guitar = Journey

Here is a pre-Perry song, all Journey, all Neal, awesome rocker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IXZo2OJiP8

There would be no Perry, no Journey without Neal.

It goes both ways on that quote......


No Perry = No Journey of Today = NO DD

Sorry but that is the truth....unless you are a fan of instrumentals

Well that is your reality since Journey to you = the DD. I'm a fan of Journey before there was a dirty dozen. I actually love the 70s hits more than the arena rock hits. Neal was there for both eras and cowrote most of the songs, therefore, Neal = Journey.

I love the 70's stuff as well.....but for me I love the Journey that is played on the radio (today) and yes Jana I believe it's all three of them that made it what it is...but the voice is what people tend to indentify with..hence the whole legacy sound that has been touted to no end.

[portland]

These songs (Patiently) would not be nearly as beautiful if some other guitarist played them. Can you imagine? I was thinking about "Liberty" the other day--can you imagine if someone else played that song other than Neal? He really is the life and heart of the band.

Agreed and I don't wany another voice on these tracks either...they are perfect as is!!!

[Jana]

Neal + Guitar = Journey

Here is a pre-Perry song, all Journey, all Neal, awesome rocker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IXZo2OJiP8

There would be no Perry, no Journey without Neal.

It goes both ways on that quote......


No Perry = No Journey of Today = NO DD

Sorry but that is the truth....unless you are a fan of instrumentals

Well that is your reality since Journey to you = the DD. I'm a fan of Journey before there was a dirty dozen. I actually love the 70s hits more than the arena rock hits. Neal was there for both eras and cowrote most of the songs, therefore, Neal = Journey.

I love the 70's stuff as well.....but for me I love the Journey that is played on the radio (today) and yes Jana I believe it's all three of them that made it what it is...but the voice is what people tend to indentify with..hence the whole legacy sound that has been touted to no end.

I don't care what they identify with. We're talking the sound of Journey. Just as important, without Neal's guitar on those songs it would never have been Journey. The Journey songs were always written with Neal in mind as mentioned in an interview by Perry or Cain, can't remember. It would have been a different sound without Neal's influence, just as Journey would have been a different sound without Perry. You need the combination to get the Journey sound. Perry without Neal and the Journey sound was Street Talk or FTLOSM. That's a fact.

[fredinator]

Neal + Guitar = Journey

Here is a pre-Perry song, all Journey, all Neal, awesome rocker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IXZo2OJiP8

There would be no Perry, no Journey without Neal.

It goes both ways on that quote......


No Perry = No Journey of Today = NO DD

Sorry but that is the truth....unless you are a fan of instrumentals

Well that is your reality since Journey to you = the DD. I'm a fan of Journey before there was a dirty dozen. I actually love the 70s hits more than the arena rock hits. Neal was there for both eras and cowrote most of the songs, therefore, Neal = Journey.

I love the 70's stuff as well.....but for me I love the Journey that is played on the radio (today) and yes Jana I believe it's all three of them that made it what it is...but the voice is what people tend to indentify with..hence the whole legacy sound that has been touted to no end.

I don't get this. The legacy sound started with the band Journey. That band began in 1974 or 75. Neal founded the band and it is his sound that is stamped on it.

[larryfromnextdoor]

oh gosh .. jana, nancy, portland..

please start disagreeing on something .. or start calling each other mean names.. you are on melrock ..

i cant compute all this agreement..

[fredinator]

Silly goose . How's that?

[portland]

oh gosh .. jana, nancy, portland..

please start disagreeing on something .. or start calling each other mean names.. you are on melrock ..

i cant compute all this agreement..

It's a kinder gentler place...this MR is all flowers and butterfiles!!!! Till Gunbot gets back from vacation then all bets are off

[portland]

Neal + Guitar = Journey

Here is a pre-Perry song, all Journey, all Neal, awesome rocker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IXZo2OJiP8

There would be no Perry, no Journey without Neal.

It goes both ways on that quote......


No Perry = No Journey of Today = NO DD

Sorry but that is the truth....unless you are a fan of instrumentals

Well that is your reality since Journey to you = the DD. I'm a fan of Journey before there was a dirty dozen. I actually love the 70s hits more than the arena rock hits. Neal was there for both eras and cowrote most of the songs, therefore, Neal = Journey.

I love the 70's stuff as well.....but for me I love the Journey that is played on the radio (today) and yes Jana I believe it's all three of them that made it what it is...but the voice is what people tend to indentify with..hence the whole legacy sound that has been touted to no end.

I don't get this. The legacy sound started with the band Journey. That band began in 1974 or 75. Neal founded the band and it is his sound that is stamped on it.

Arrrgh....then why is Disc 2 of Revelation the DD?? and not something from 74 or 75????

[fredinator]

From what I've read, it was a deal they made with WalMart. I agree that "people" love the DD and equate them with Perry which in turn makes it seem like it is their legacy sound. Neal has always taken a backseat to recognition--he says that isn't his bag. So "people" hardly know who Neal is and define Journey as Perry based on the DD. Pre-Perry Journey has that legacy sound all over it. Neal is that legacy sound.

[Jana]

From what I've read, it was a deal they made with WalMart. I agree that "people" love the DD and equate them with Perry which in turn makes it seem like it is their legacy sound. Neal has always taken a backseat to recognition--he says that isn't his bag. So "people" hardly know who Neal is and define Journey as Perry based on the DD. Pre-Perry Journey has that legacy sound all over it. Neal is that legacy sound.

Yep. When my neighbor, who lived for Journey with her highschool friends back in the day, was discussing Journey with me when I talked about going to this' year's concert, she didn't want to go b/c worried she would miss Perry's voice and later regretted it when I told her the concert was amazing. She hadn't listened to Journey in many, many years. She said she didn't know what it was about Journey music that was so unique. I told her it was the guitar mixed with Perry's vocals. She went back and listened to all the old albums she owned and was blown away and said that's what it was, not just Perry's voice but the signature guitar sound by Neal all over those songs.

[Author2]

Neal + Guitar = Journey

Here is a pre-Perry song, all Journey, all Neal, awesome rocker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IXZo2OJiP8

There would be no Perry, no Journey without Neal.

It goes both ways on that quote......


No Perry = No Journey of Today = NO DD

Sorry but that is the truth....unless you are a fan of instrumentals

Well that is your reality since Journey to you = the DD. I'm a fan of Journey before there was a dirty dozen. I actually love the 70s hits more than the arena rock hits. Neal was there for both eras and cowrote most of the songs, therefore, Neal = Journey.

I love the 70's stuff as well.....but for me I love the Journey that is played on the radio (today) and yes Jana I believe it's all three of them that made it what it is...but the voice is what people tend to indentify with..hence the whole legacy sound that has been touted to no end.

I don't get this. The legacy sound started with the band Journey. That band began in 1974 or 75. Neal founded the band and it is his sound that is stamped on it.

Think 1973. I think it's pretty safe to assume the legacy sound is more or less referring to Perry's voice, and don't think Neal was concentrating too much on what happened pre-Perry? Would you say this excerpt from 8/2005 interview tends to indicate that?:


"Schon formed Journey with Rolie in 1973 after they both parted ways with Carlos Santana, whose band Schon had joined at age 15.

Singer Steve Augeri sounds an awful lot like Steve Perry, and while Schon says he considered getting a singer who sounded nothing like Perry and striking out for completely new territory, they'd then have had "the conflict of our catalog.

We've got a tremendous catalog of lots of hit songs, which I wrote either a half or a third of" with Cain. "So we felt that those songs were ours as well as Steve's, and we had every right to do those songs.

"[And] everything wasn't written around the guitar, like in Van Halen." Switching singers from David Lee Roth to Sammy Hagar, Schon says, "was a much easier move for them, because everything was based around [guitarist Edward Van Halen]."

"In Journey, all the hit songs we had were based around Steve Perry's vocals. And so in order to play those songs, someone has to have resemblance."

Schon adds that drummer Deen Castronovo "sounds more like Steve Perry than Steve Augeri does," and is singing a few songs on these shows."

This was in an article: "Perry said in GQ article that sometimes he hates hearing his voice. Fortunately Neal has no problem with it for he is on his third sound-a-like."

[Enigma869]

I don't get this. The legacy sound started with the band Journey. That band began in 1974 or 75. Neal founded the band and it is his sound that is stamped on it.

You're too fucking stupid to debate with if you seriously believe this! What the fuck do you think Neal is talking about when he has said 963 times over the past two years during interviews that Journey had to get back to their "legacy sound" when asked why he was looking for another vocalist. If your theory were remotely true, why the fuck would the lead singer matter one iota? Neal was in the band the whole time and according to you, that sound is all about Neal

Go pull out your vinyl LP's from 1974 and give them a whirl on your victrola, and then give 1983 Journey a listen. If you seriously believe that those two bands have anything in common in terms of their sound, you should probably get fitted for that hearing aid this weekend!

[Enigma869]

"In Journey, all the hit songs we had were based around Steve Perry's vocals."

Look at that...Neal actually does have something logical to say I also agree with his premise that Castronovo sounds more like Perry than Augeri ever did, and I don't think Deen sounds that much like Perry! Augeri simply wasn't close to Perry in sound...not even in the same fucking zip code!

[fredinator]

... Schon adds that drummer Deen Castronovo "sounds more like Steve Perry than Steve Augeri does," and is singing a few songs on these shows."

This was in an article: "Perry said in GQ article that sometimes he hates hearing his voice. Fortunately Neal has no problem with it for he is on his third sound-a-like."

So? Neal is discussing their hit songs which is probably the DD; he doesn't even mention Rolie. He is consistent--he has never tried to be front and center with his work. Here he is pandering to the same group of people that equate journey with the DD. I don't get your argument either.

JFB, you're too crass to talk with but I will say this: you have never given a damn about Journey pre-Perry so your argument is null, void and tacky.

[stevew2]

"In Journey, all the hit songs we had were based around Steve Perry's vocals."

Look at that...Neal actually does have something logical to say I also agree with his premise that Castronovo sounds more like Perry than Augeri ever did, and I don't think Deen sounds that much like Perry! Augeri simply wasn't close to Perry in sound...not even in the same fucking zip code!

he did pretty fuckin good for awile, long enough for me to become a fan again

[Monker]

From what I've read, it was a deal they made with WalMart. I agree that "people" love the DD and equate them with Perry which in turn makes it seem like it is their legacy sound. Neal has always taken a backseat to recognition--he says that isn't his bag. So "people" hardly know who Neal is and define Journey as Perry based on the DD. Pre-Perry Journey has that legacy sound all over it. Neal is that legacy sound.

when Neal hired Arnel and made the decision to go back to the 'legacy sound', and rerecord Journey songs, he solidified the OPNION of Steve Perry = Journey into anybody's head who wanted to believe it. He also solidified Journey as a nostalgia band. They will never be anything more - no matter how many tickets or albums they sell...because it is all based on the "legacy sound' and old songs from the 80's, all pointing back to when Perry was in the band.

[SherriBerry]

... Schon adds that drummer Deen Castronovo "sounds more like Steve Perry than Steve Augeri does," and is singing a few songs on these shows."

This was in an article: "Perry said in GQ article that sometimes he hates hearing his voice. Fortunately Neal has no problem with it for he is on his third sound-a-like."

So? Neal is discussing their hit songs which is probably the DD; he doesn't even mention Rolie. He is consistent--he has never tried to be front and center with his work. Here he is pandering to the same group of people that equate journey with the DD. I don't get your argument either.

No, Neal is discussing Journey's legacy sound and how the songs were written around Steve Perry's voice. He did not limit the discussion to the Dirty Dozen. The pre-Perry sound of Journey was a prog-rock style that is very different from what became Journey's legacy sound and even that evolved throughout the years from the addition of SP and then the change from Gregg Rolie to Jonathan Cain. Neal's amazing guitar sound is a constant throughout, but was not the primary focus of the songwriting. The only two songs on Infinity that were not co-written by Steve Perry were 'Anytime' and 'Wheel in the Sky' - WITS was a hit, but it was SP's voice that was recognized most ("the voice on the radio") and that is from Neal on the BTM Special. Just consider Neal's comment when he first heard 'Open Arms': "What am I gonna do on this?"

If the legacy sound were based on Neal's guitar, it would not matter who the vocalist is, as long as he was good. Neal stated clearly that the reason JSS was let go was because he heard him sing a new track and it did not sound like Journey - Neal's guitar was on the track, but SP's vocals were not. The primary concern for Journey has been finding a vocalist who sounds like Steve Perry - that's why Neal hired Steve Augeri, fired JSS, and hired Arnel. If you want proof of how important Steve Perry's voice is to Journey, consider how much power and influence he had within the band after Infinity. By ROR, it was his baby (Kevin Elson's words, not mine) and by TBF, the band was willing to fire Herbie to get him back.

No one would discount the importance of Neal's guitar sound to Journey, but when the band discusses the legacy sound, they have been quite clear that they mean Steve Perry's voice. And Neal does not pander to anyone, including his fans.

[fredinator]

Yes, I can agree with that (Monker's post). Maybe it's because they also wanted to capitalize on DSB and the Sopranos? It almost seemed to take on a life of its own then.

[RocknRoll]

Yes, I can agree with that. Maybe it's because they also wanted to capitalize on DSB and the Sopranos? It almost seemed to take on a life of its own then.

Makes sense to me. Maybe when DSB literally took off, the band had to sit back and think "OK, maybe this is what we're stuck with". Maybe that wasn't the plan, but hey you take what you get. I'm just glad Journey is still out there playing the music fans love, creating and playing new music plus throwing us old fans a few gems once in awhile.

[portland]

From what I've read, it was a deal they made with WalMart. I agree that "people" love the DD and equate them with Perry which in turn makes it seem like it is their legacy sound. Neal has always taken a backseat to recognition--he says that isn't his bag. So "people" hardly know who Neal is and define Journey as Perry based on the DD. Pre-Perry Journey has that legacy sound all over it. Neal is that legacy sound.

when Neal hired Arnel and made the decision to go back to the 'legacy sound', and rerecord Journey songs, he solidified the OPNION of Steve Perry = Journey into anybody's head who wanted to believe it. He also solidified Journey as a nostalgia band. They will never be anything more - no matter how many tickets or albums they sell...because it is all based on the "legacy sound' and old songs from the 80's, all pointing back to when Perry was in the band.

GOOD GOD..........this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^is it and someone finally sumed it up in a paragraph!!!