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Postby Pelata » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:24 pm

portland wrote:
Monker wrote:
fredinator wrote:From what I've read, it was a deal they made with WalMart. I agree that "people" love the DD and equate them with Perry which in turn makes it seem like it is their legacy sound. Neal has always taken a backseat to recognition--he says that isn't his bag. So "people" hardly know who Neal is and define Journey as Perry based on the DD. Pre-Perry Journey has that legacy sound all over it. Neal is that legacy sound.


when Neal hired Arnel and made the decision to go back to the 'legacy sound', and rerecord Journey songs, he solidified the OPNION of Steve Perry = Journey into anybody's head who wanted to believe it. He also solidified Journey as a nostalgia band. They will never be anything more - no matter how many tickets or albums they sell...because it is all based on the "legacy sound' and old songs from the 80's, all pointing back to when Perry was in the band.





GOOD GOD..........this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^is it and someone finally sumed it up in a paragraph!!!


I agree with this as well...nail on the head.
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Postby Michigan Girl » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:35 pm

portland wrote:
Monker wrote:
fredinator wrote:From what I've read, it was a deal they made with WalMart. I agree that "people" love the DD and equate them with Perry which in turn makes it seem like it is their legacy sound. Neal has always taken a backseat to recognition--he says that isn't his bag. So "people" hardly know who Neal is and define Journey as Perry based on the DD. Pre-Perry Journey has that legacy sound all over it. Neal is that legacy sound.


when Neal hired Arnel and made the decision to go back to the 'legacy sound', and rerecord Journey songs, he solidified the OPNION of Steve Perry = Journey into anybody's head who wanted to believe it. He also solidified Journey as a nostalgia band. They will never be anything more - no matter how many tickets or albums they sell...because it is all based on the "legacy sound' and old songs from the 80's, all pointing back to when Perry was in the band.



GOOD GOD..........this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^is it and someone finally sumed it up in a paragraph!!!


He certainly did, for some of us anyway!! :wink:
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Postby parfait » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:52 pm

when Neal hired Arnel and made the decision to go back to the 'legacy sound', and rerecord Journey songs, he solidified the OPNION of Steve Perry = Journey into anybody's head who wanted to believe it. He also solidified Journey as a nostalgia band. They will never be anything more - no matter how many tickets or albums they sell...because it is all based on the "legacy sound' and old songs from the 80's, all pointing back to when Perry was in the band.


Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal. And of course Journey is a nostalgia band. I'm sure Neal would love to go on stage and play We Will Meet Again and Nickel and Dime, but the fact is that almost no one wants to hear that.. Let's take Jay-Z as an example: when he's out touring, he don't play the fucking b-sides - he plays the HITS. There are just a tiny few band and artists that continuously makes hits over several decades, and Journey isn't one of them. So it's self explanatory really, Journey plays what the fans want to hear, thus, were the money is.

Thousands of girls got their cherry popped while Open Arms or Don't stop believing was playing on the radio - not one fucker lost their cherry to Butterfly (She Flies Alone) - so the point is that Journey will be playing the dirty dozen until they'll retire (unless they make a shitload of hits, which is highly unlikely since the market for AOR is pretty shit).

So stop your god awfull whining and try to see things objectively for once.
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Postby fightingilliniJRNY » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:05 am

portland wrote:
Monker wrote:when Neal hired Arnel and made the decision to go back to the 'legacy sound', and rerecord Journey songs, he solidified the OPNION of Steve Perry = Journey into anybody's head who wanted to believe it. He also solidified Journey as a nostalgia band. They will never be anything more - no matter how many tickets or albums they sell...because it is all based on the "legacy sound' and old songs from the 80's, all pointing back to when Perry was in the band.
GOOD GOD..........this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^is it and someone finally sumed it up in a paragraph!!!


Hold the phone --

Don't forget there are three more common denominators from the 80s sound - named Schon, Cain and Valory. They are as much of the legacy sound as Perry was. So okay, maybe Journey does keep making records based on the legacy sound. It's clearly a working, successful formula and there are three people still in the band who made that legacy sound so popular. It shouldn't have to die when Perry hangs it up.

And Monker, why would Journey NOT keep making records according to the legacy sound? Why would they want to switch directions at this point in their career? Journey is Journey. People know what Journey sounds like. You can take risks on an album and branch out a little bit, but what's wrong with Journey making a "Journey record?"
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Postby Enigma869 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:14 am

SherriBerry wrote:
No, Neal is discussing Journey's legacy sound and how the songs were written around Steve Perry's voice. He did not limit the discussion to the Dirty Dozen. The pre-Perry sound of Journey was a prog-rock style that is very different from what became Journey's legacy sound and even that evolved throughout the years from the addition of SP and then the change from Gregg Rolie to Jonathan Cain. Neal's amazing guitar sound is a constant throughout, but was not the primary focus of the songwriting. The only two songs on Infinity that were not co-written by Steve Perry were 'Anytime' and 'Wheel in the Sky' - WITS was a hit, but it was SP's voice that was recognized most ("the voice on the radio") and that is from Neal on the BTM Special. Just consider Neal's comment when he first heard 'Open Arms': "What am I gonna do on this?"

If the legacy sound were based on Neal's guitar, it would not matter who the vocalist is, as long as he was good. Neal stated clearly that the reason JSS was let go was because he heard him sing a new track and it did not sound like Journey - Neal's guitar was on the track, but SP's vocals were not. The primary concern for Journey has been finding a vocalist who sounds like Steve Perry - that's why Neal hired Steve Augeri, fired JSS, and hired Arnel. If you want proof of how important Steve Perry's voice is to Journey, consider how much power and influence he had within the band after Infinity. By ROR, it was his baby (Kevin Elson's words, not mine) and by TBF, the band was willing to fire Herbie to get him back.

No one would discount the importance of Neal's guitar sound to Journey, but when the band discusses the legacy sound, they have been quite clear that they mean Steve Perry's voice. And Neal does not pander to anyone, including his fans.



You couldn't be more spot on with this post if you tried! I can't wait for freddie twinkle toes and Monker to tear into this one!
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Postby bluejeangirl76 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:18 am

fightingilliniJRNY wrote:Hold the phone --

Don't forget there are three more common denominators from the 80s sound - named Schon, Cain and Valory. They are as much of the legacy sound as Perry was.


I'll give you Schon, and I'll even give you Cain based on the whole top ten and "power ballad" thing, but... Valory?

This is not to discount him, you see, because I rather enjoy good old RV (cue Rhiannon), but what was distinct about his playing in terms of the Journey sound, or the legacy sound, or whatever we're calling it.

I'm not being an ass (for a nice change 8) ), I'm actually asking.
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Postby Jana » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:20 am

fightingilliniJRNY wrote:
portland wrote:
Monker wrote:when Neal hired Arnel and made the decision to go back to the 'legacy sound', and rerecord Journey songs, he solidified the OPNION of Steve Perry = Journey into anybody's head who wanted to believe it. He also solidified Journey as a nostalgia band. They will never be anything more - no matter how many tickets or albums they sell...because it is all based on the "legacy sound' and old songs from the 80's, all pointing back to when Perry was in the band.
GOOD GOD..........this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^is it and someone finally sumed it up in a paragraph!!!


Hold the phone --

Don't forget there are three more common denominators from the 80s sound - named Schon, Cain and Valory. They are as much of the legacy sound as Perry was. So okay, maybe Journey does keep making records based on the legacy sound. It's clearly a working, successful formula and there are three people still in the band who made that legacy sound so popular. It shouldn't have to die when Perry hangs it up.

And Monker, why would Journey NOT keep making records according to the legacy sound? Why would they want to switch directions at this point in their career? Journey is Journey. People know what Journey sounds like. You can take risks on an album and branch out a little bit, but what's wrong with Journey making a "Journey record?"


Sure, the sound of a tenor voice is the legacy sound, which after JSS was the wrong route for them, they knew they needed to get back to. They didn't have to look to the other part of the equation, Neal's soulful guitar playing. He's already in the band to provide the other part of the Journey sound. :wink: And apparently nothing is wrong with them making a Journey record that sounds like Journey (talking about new songs), since the reviews were all excellent, including Andrew's.
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Postby fightingilliniJRNY » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:42 am

bluejeangirl76 wrote:
fightingilliniJRNY wrote:Hold the phone --

Don't forget there are three more common denominators from the 80s sound - named Schon, Cain and Valory. They are as much of the legacy sound as Perry was.


I'll give you Schon, and I'll even give you Cain based on the whole top ten and "power ballad" thing, but... Valory?

This is not to discount him, you see, because I rather enjoy good old RV (cue Rhiannon), but what was distinct about his playing in terms of the Journey sound, or the legacy sound, or whatever we're calling it.

I'm not being an ass (for a nice change 8) ), I'm actually asking.


Yeah, that's true. I just included him because he's been around as long as the others (and having three names made my argument sound better :lol: ). I guess he hasn't really contributed to the legacy sound. All he's really contributed is his ability to make the others look young. :wink:
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Postby bluejeangirl76 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:17 am

fightingilliniJRNY wrote:
bluejeangirl76 wrote:
fightingilliniJRNY wrote:Hold the phone --

Don't forget there are three more common denominators from the 80s sound - named Schon, Cain and Valory. They are as much of the legacy sound as Perry was.


I'll give you Schon, and I'll even give you Cain based on the whole top ten and "power ballad" thing, but... Valory?

This is not to discount him, you see, because I rather enjoy good old RV (cue Rhiannon), but what was distinct about his playing in terms of the Journey sound, or the legacy sound, or whatever we're calling it.

I'm not being an ass (for a nice change 8) ), I'm actually asking.


Yeah, that's true. I just included him because he's been around as long as the others (and having three names made my argument sound better :lol: ). I guess he hasn't really contributed to the legacy sound. All he's really contributed is his ability to make the others look young. :wink:


I suppose he gets points for tenure, so let's see... yes... ok... we will include Valory. I'll send out the memo.

I mean hell, he's 846 years old so we gotta at least credit him for longevity. I'm pardoning the years he was - erm - well - not with the band because that one wasn't... really... erm - his doing. :shock: :lol:
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Postby fightingilliniJRNY » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:19 am

bluejeangirl76 wrote:I suppose he gets points for tenure, so let's see... yes... ok... we will include Valory. I'll send out the memo.

I mean hell, he's 846 years old so we gotta at least credit him for longevity. I'm pardoning the years he was - erm - well - not with the band because that one wasn't... really... erm - his doing. :shock: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Pelata » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:57 am

Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.


They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...
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Postby Behshad » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:26 am

Pelata wrote:
Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.


They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...


Soto made it clear that he was not gonna do the rerecords.
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Postby portland » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:29 am

Behshad wrote:
Pelata wrote:
Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.


They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...


Soto made it clear that he was not gonna do the rerecords.




Just curious why did he not want to do them???
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Postby steveo777 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:35 am

portland wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Pelata wrote:
Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.


They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...


Soto made it clear that he was not gonna do the rerecords.




Just curious why did he not want to do them???


That's an easy answer. Soto would not be able to pull them off. Really, Soto is a great singer, but not on the Journey catalog. Oh, yeah, he could sing them alright, but not close enough to the original sound like Pineda does.
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Postby portland » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:03 am

steveo777 wrote:
portland wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Pelata wrote:
Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.


They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...


Soto made it clear that he was not gonna do the rerecords.




Just curious why did he not want to do them???


That's an easy answer. Soto would not be able to pull them off. Really, Soto is a great singer, but not on the Journey catalog. Oh, yeah, he could sing them alright, but not close enough to the original sound like Pineda does.




Oh we are back to this^^^^^and people here are trying say that Perry is not what makes the legacy sound...yeah right :roll:
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Postby Escape81 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:15 am

I COULD be mistaken, so please don't bite my head off.... but it doesn't seem like anyone here is trying to say that Steve P. wasn't a or THE major facet of the legacy sound.... just that there WAS more to the band than just him. I think I asked this on another thread: why do we have to trump up one person at the expense of the others? They ALL contributed something to Journey.... some more than others sure.... I'm not sure I agree with Ross being a main reason for the bands success...... but why take away what Neal or Jonathan added to make Steve P. sound better OR vice versa??? Seems silly to me. :?
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Postby Author2 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:53 pm

Behshad wrote:
Pelata wrote:
Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.


They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...


Soto made it clear that he was not gonna do the rerecords.




Thanks Soto! I believe Kelly Hansen of Foreigner said the same. Integrity!!!
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Postby Pelata » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:29 am

Behshad wrote:
Pelata wrote:
Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.


They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...


Soto made it clear that he was not gonna do the rerecords.


I didn't say he did them...I said they (the band) were already working on them before Arnel/Walmart...which means nobody made them do it.
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Postby Don » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:34 am

Didn't Neal say that this was something he wanted to do for a while? Of course Cain's take is the opposite as he admits the idea seemed smaltzy to him at first.
Judging by the production value of Disc 2, It doesn't sound like Cain put a 100% effort into it.
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Postby brywool » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:44 am

portland wrote:
Oh we are back to this^^^^^and people here are trying say that Perry is not what makes the legacy sound...yeah right :roll:


Nobody said this...
NO. He's NOT Steve F'ing Perry. But he's Arnel F'ing Pineda and I'm okay with that.
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Postby Since 78 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:34 am

portland wrote:
steveo777 wrote:
portland wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Pelata wrote:
Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.


They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...


Soto made it clear that he was not gonna do the rerecords.




Just curious why did he not want to do them???


That's an easy answer. Soto would not be able to pull them off. Really, Soto is a great singer, but not on the Journey catalog. Oh, yeah, he could sing them alright, but not close enough to the original sound like Pineda does.




Oh we are back to this^^^^^and people here are trying say that Perry is not what makes the legacy sound...yeah right :roll:


Perry's high tenor and his ability to play off of Neal's guitar work are the "legacy sound". Yes, he is the originator of the sound along with Neal, his unique voice cannot be replaced, but the sound can. I think the reason Neal seems so happy with Arnel is not that he sounds like Perry, but that he has the talent and ability to compliment Neal's playing like Perry did. He can go right from a soaring vocal into a soaring solo and visa versa. They have the blend IMO that they've been looking for.
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Postby Jana » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:49 am

Since 78 wrote:
portland wrote:
steveo777 wrote:
portland wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Pelata wrote:
Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.


They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...


Soto made it clear that he was not gonna do the rerecords.




Just curious why did he not want to do them???


That's an easy answer. Soto would not be able to pull them off. Really, Soto is a great singer, but not on the Journey catalog. Oh, yeah, he could sing them alright, but not close enough to the original sound like Pineda does.




Oh we are back to this^^^^^and people here are trying say that Perry is not what makes the legacy sound...yeah right :roll:


Perry's high tenor and his ability to play off of Neal's guitar work are the "legacy sound". Yes, he is the originator of the sound along with Neal, his unique voice cannot be replaced, but the sound can. I think the reason Neal seems so happy with Arnel is not that he sounds like Perry, but that he has the talent and ability to compliment Neal's playing like Perry did. He can go right from a soaring vocal into a soaring solo and visa versa. They have the blend IMO that they've been looking for.


Yes, yes, yes.
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Postby portland » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:52 am

Jana wrote:
Since 78 wrote:
portland wrote:
steveo777 wrote:
portland wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Pelata wrote:
Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.


They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...


Soto made it clear that he was not gonna do the rerecords.




Just curious why did he not want to do them???


That's an easy answer. Soto would not be able to pull them off. Really, Soto is a great singer, but not on the Journey catalog. Oh, yeah, he could sing them alright, but not close enough to the original sound like Pineda does.




Oh we are back to this^^^^^and people here are trying say that Perry is not what makes the legacy sound...yeah right :roll:


Perry's high tenor and his ability to play off of Neal's guitar work are the "legacy sound". Yes, he is the originator of the sound along with Neal, his unique voice cannot be replaced, but the sound can. I think the reason Neal seems so happy with Arnel is not that he sounds like Perry, but that he has the talent and ability to compliment Neal's playing like Perry did. He can go right from a soaring vocal into a soaring solo and visa versa. They have the blend IMO that they've been looking for.


Yes, yes, yes.




and yes it's Perry's sound that is being duplicated...and that is where the comparison of a tribute band lies :wink:
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Postby fightingilliniJRNY » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:14 am

portland wrote:and yes it's Perry's sound that is being duplicated...and that is where the comparison of a tribute band lies :wink:


It's not a tribute band if...it's...the same...band. Journey circa 2009 can't be a Journey tribute band. It IS Journey.
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Postby brywool » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:34 am

So if it's Perry's sound that's being duplicated, then how do you explain all those who jump to Perry's defense and claim Pineda sounds nothing like Perry? Either he does or he doesn't, can't be both.

If the guy sounds like Perry, he gets in trouble.
If he doesn't sound like Perry, he gets in trouble.
If he couldn't sing the back catalog, he'd get in trouble.

Guess the band should've just called it a day and turned down a buttload of money all because one of the members decided he'd rather sit on the bench for the last 13 years. That's just silly. Not sure why people think they should've hung it up because one guy didn't want to work. If people weren't liking it, they'd not be having any success and the proof is in the pudding.

Also- I GUARANTEE YOU that if Journey wasn't having the success they are today (modest as it is) nobody would hear from Perry ever again. But because Perry's old band is doing pretty well, all the sudden he's jumped into the studio. Jeepers, what a coincidence. So when Perry finally does emerge from the Cat Cave, don't forget who's influence brought him out. It certainly wasn't "The Faithful Ones".
NO. He's NOT Steve F'ing Perry. But he's Arnel F'ing Pineda and I'm okay with that.
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Postby fightingilliniJRNY » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:37 am

brywool wrote:Guess the band should've just called it a day and turned down a buttload of money all because one of the members decided he'd rather sit on the bench for the last 13 years. That's just silly. Not sure why people think they should've hung it up because one guy didn't want to work. If people weren't liking it, they'd not be having any success and the proof is in the pudding.


+1,000

The demand keeps them out there year after year. They clearly are doing something right.

brywool wrote:Also- I GUARANTEE YOU that if Journey wasn't having the success they are today (modest as it is) nobody would hear from Perry ever again. But because Perry's old band is doing pretty well, all the sudden he's jumped into the studio. Jeepers, what a coincidence. So when Perry finally does emerge from the Cat Cave, don't forget who's influence brought him out. It certainly wasn't "The Faithful Ones".


Spot on. Well said.
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Postby yak » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:49 am

steveo777 wrote:
Rick wrote:You don't come on a Journey forum, call what they're doing "shit", and not expect to get bitch slapped moron.

Which retread is this?


HMMM...joined Oct. 6th, eh? :wink:
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Postby Jana » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:04 am

brywool wrote:So if it's Perry's sound that's being duplicated, then how do you explain all those who jump to Perry's defense and claim Pineda sounds nothing like Perry? Either he does or he doesn't, can't be both.

If the guy sounds like Perry, he gets in trouble.
If he doesn't sound like Perry, he gets in trouble.
If he couldn't sing the back catalog, he'd get in trouble.

Guess the band should've just called it a day and turned down a buttload of money all because one of the members decided he'd rather sit on the bench for the last 13 years. That's just silly. Not sure why people think they should've hung it up because one guy didn't want to work. If people weren't liking it, they'd not be having any success and the proof is in the pudding.

Also- I GUARANTEE YOU that if Journey wasn't having the success they are today (modest as it is) nobody would hear from Perry ever again. But because Perry's old band is doing pretty well, all the sudden he's jumped into the studio. Jeepers, what a coincidence. So when Perry finally does emerge from the Cat Cave, don't forget who's influence brought him out. It certainly wasn't "The Faithful Ones".


Hell, yeah. Now here's a post. :wink:
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Postby portland » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:09 am

Jana wrote:
brywool wrote:So if it's Perry's sound that's being duplicated, then how do you explain all those who jump to Perry's defense and claim Pineda sounds nothing like Perry? Either he does or he doesn't, can't be both.

If the guy sounds like Perry, he gets in trouble.
If he doesn't sound like Perry, he gets in trouble.
If he couldn't sing the back catalog, he'd get in trouble.

Guess the band should've just called it a day and turned down a buttload of money all because one of the members decided he'd rather sit on the bench for the last 13 years. That's just silly. Not sure why people think they should've hung it up because one guy didn't want to work. If people weren't liking it, they'd not be having any success and the proof is in the pudding.

Also- I GUARANTEE YOU that if Journey wasn't having the success they are today (modest as it is) nobody would hear from Perry ever again. But because Perry's old band is doing pretty well, all the sudden he's jumped into the studio. Jeepers, what a coincidence. So when Perry finally does emerge from the Cat Cave, don't forget who's influence brought him out. It certainly wasn't "The Faithful Ones".


Hell, yeah. Now here's a post. :wink:




Yes.....we all post and post and we go round and round....and in the end we all have our ideas of what Journey is to each of us.


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and the discussion and disagreements will go on and on and on :wink:
What's left After You Fall?.....A Cover Band?
portland
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Postby Michigan Girl » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:15 am

Arnel does not have to sound like anyone in particular to everyone!! I thought his voice bore a striking resemblance
to Perry in some you tube clips, when I heard him in person 2008...not so much!! In 2009, not at all!!! He can sound
ANYWAY You Want It, I don't care!! :wink:
Michigan Girl
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