So, if you were a naysayer but changed your mind?

[fightingilliniJRNY]

and in the end we all have our ideas of what Journey is to each of us.

That's the most sensible thing you've said in 3350 posts.

[Michigan Girl]

and in the end we all have our ideas of what Journey is to each of us.

That's the most sensible thing you've said in 3350 posts.

Of course that would be your opinion...I strongly disagree!!

[portland]

and in the end we all have our ideas of what Journey is to each of us.

That's the most sensible thing you've said in 3350 posts.

Thanks.......I hope you don't mind that I don't really give a rats ass what you think of my posts all 3350 of them

[Enigma869]

So if it's Perry's sound that's being duplicated, then how do you explain all those who jump to Perry's defense and claim Pineda sounds nothing like Perry?

I think saying Augeri sounded like Perry was just plain fucking moronic. Saying Pineda sounds like Perry isn't nearly as far fetched. Is he as good as Perry was? Fuck no, and I'm certain he'd be the first guy to tell you that. Part of Arnel's problem (and it's really not his fault) is that in spite of the raw power in his voice, his accent takes away from what made Perry absolutely brilliant...his distinct and VERY clear phrasing! This is something Arnel will never match, even if he tries for the rest of his life!

If he couldn't sing the back catalog, he'd get in trouble.

It's only a matter of time before singing the back catalog gets Arnel into trouble. I personally don't think it's fair to say that he can't sing the back catalog. The previous lead singers simply couldn't and shouldn't have even been up there trying to sing the back catalog. Arnel at least comes close to the sound for the casual (i.e. not the psychotic fucks who hang out here)! The first time I ever heard Augeri, I pissed myself laughing when I heard his ball worshippers claiming that he sounded "just like Perry". That dude couldn't have sounded more different than Perry if he tried! I honestly don't even know how a casual fan could honestly think Augeri sounded anything like Perry. Sure, the songs were the same, but the voice was drastically different. I definitely understand casual fans saying Arnel sounds close.

Guess the band should've just called it a day and turned down a buttload of money all because one of the members decided he'd rather sit on the bench for the last 13 years.

Blah, blah, blah. Poor Stevie wouldn't come out and play with Douche and Friga. At the end of the day, these guys can do what they want (and did) and in spite of the whining by the same 5 people in here claiming "were these guys not supposed to go on"?, I really haven't heard anyone say anything like that. I've heard some say that they shouldn't have called themselves "Journey", and even that doesn't matter to me. They can call themselves "Four guys and a Douche" (which would be quite apropos), and it's really not going to matter one iota to me. Journey will forever be Perry, Schon, and Cain to me. Without Schon, it's not Journey. Without Cain, it's not Journey. Without Perry, it's not Journey. The name "Journey" in 2009 means nothing to me, because it's not the band I grew up listening to. Neal sold the name down the river a million years ago and has proven time and again that he'll pimp it out for two dollars if he has an alimony check to send!

There is a certain faction of people who will claim that Journey was Perry only. Then there is the faction (many of whom are the same 5 people I'm referring to) who claim Journey was built entirely around Schon. At the end of the day, the people in different camps will NEVER agree on this point. I think the people in the Perry camp have a FAR more compelling argument due to the fact if this band were truly all about Schon and built around Schon, they should have done a whole lot better in the four years that Schon was steering this ship before Perry's voice was brought into the mix. If it were truly all about Schon, then the voice shouldn't have mattered, AT ALL, but even the Perry haters know better than to dare go down that road! I personally believe Schon is a GREAT guitarist and I could listen to him play on Journey songs all day long. That said, without Perry's voice, I would have never known who Neal Schon was. I also wouldn't go watch a concert that involved Neal simply jammin' on his guitar, regardless of how talented the guy is! The brilliance behind Journey was that they were a band who could put together even a ballad (like Faithfully) and still work Schon's masterful guitar into the mix and simply make it work. The thing I find most interesting is that if Schon left the band tomorrow and the remaining members carried on as "Journey", many of Neal's ball washers here would be the first ones to sign on and say "Hey, this isn't Journey", and I wouldn't even disagree because that's how I feel now. Even if you're the number one Schon fan on the planet, you can't re-write the history. It wasn't Schon who put this band on the map. It's simply not even up for debate!

If people weren't liking it, they'd not be having any success and the proof is in the pudding.

The whole “success” argument is completely dopey and VERY subjective. A couple of points here. There is a well-known case of an author going on Oprah Winfrey’s show a couple of years back and talking about his book. The day after he appeared, his book shot to number one on the NY Times Best Sellers list. It turned out the fucking book was plaigiarized and the guy was a fraud. I don’t watch Oprah but I’m sure some people on here remember the story because it was all over the news. The point is that Oprah is that freakin’ powerful! Oprah didn't legitimize Journey any more than she did that fraudulent author pimping his fraudulent goods on her stage! Also, don’t lose sight of the fact that “Journey” appearing on Oprah had absolutely nothing to do with their music. It was all about Arnel and his life story! They wouldn’t have gotten onto Oprah with Augeri, even if he were 100 times the singer Arnel was!

Also- I GUARANTEE YOU that if Journey wasn't having the success they are today nobody would hear from Perry ever again. But because Perry's old band is doing pretty well, all the sudden he's jumped into the studio. Jeepers, what a coincidence. So when Perry finally does emerge from the Cat Cave, don't forget who's influence brought him out. It certainly wasn't "The Faithful Ones".

Contrary to your suggestion, I don’t believe for one second that Perry is motivated by a single thing the guys calling themselves “Journey” are doing in 2009. In spite of some making it sound like Journey just won 8 Grammy Awards, that’s not the reality. Furthermore, there isn’t one fucking thing that anyone in this band can do to alter Perry’s legacy…Not one thing! Whether Perry can sing or not in 2009 (and I’m one of the few who really doesn’t give a fuck) doesn’t change that he did it better than anyone for a moment in time and that simply isn’t going to change. I personally don’t believe that Perry will release any music ever again, and I almost hope that he doesn’t! Larry Bird doesn’t have to come back to remind me how brilliant of a player he was and Steve Perry doesn’t have to come back to remind me how brilliant he was as a singer!

[brywool]

So if it's Perry's sound that's being duplicated, then how do you explain all those who jump to Perry's defense and claim Pineda sounds nothing like Perry? Either he does or he doesn't, can't be both.

If the guy sounds like Perry, he gets in trouble.
If he doesn't sound like Perry, he gets in trouble.
If he couldn't sing the back catalog, he'd get in trouble.

Guess the band should've just called it a day and turned down a buttload of money all because one of the members decided he'd rather sit on the bench for the last 13 years. That's just silly. Not sure why people think they should've hung it up because one guy didn't want to work. If people weren't liking it, they'd not be having any success and the proof is in the pudding.

Also- I GUARANTEE YOU that if Journey wasn't having the success they are today (modest as it is) nobody would hear from Perry ever again. But because Perry's old band is doing pretty well, all the sudden he's jumped into the studio. Jeepers, what a coincidence. So when Perry finally does emerge from the Cat Cave, don't forget who's influence brought him out. It certainly wasn't "The Faithful Ones".

Hell, yeah. Now here's a post.

Yes.....we all post and post and we go round and round....and in the end we all have our ideas of what Journey is to each of us.






and the discussion and disagreements will go on and on and on

There's 'ideas' and then there's 'facts'. The FACT is, the band is doing something right while Steve Perry is MIA.
Like I said, those who keep jumping to Perry's defense about how Arnel sounds nothing like him are the same ones whining that the band's a tribute act with a sound alike singer.

How can it be both ways???

Arnel sounds enough like Perry to do the job and do it WELL. It's not imitation. If it was, he'd have a tux jacket, spandex pants, a nose job, and a pair of Nikes that he'd be dragging all over the stage. They might as well have hired Hugo then (and I LIKE Hugo kids).
I'm not sure why it's so hard to give Arnel the credit he deserves.

It SUCKS that Perry isn't doing anything. But that has nothing to do with Journey's current success and I don't get why people want to slam that. If you're one of those who thinks Arnel doesn't sound like Perry and doesn't fit the band, that's one thing, but then you can't turn around and say it's a tribute band with a sound alike singer. That doesn't fit.

[Jana]

So if it's Perry's sound that's being duplicated, then how do you explain all those who jump to Perry's defense and claim Pineda sounds nothing like Perry? Either he does or he doesn't, can't be both.

If the guy sounds like Perry, he gets in trouble.
If he doesn't sound like Perry, he gets in trouble.
If he couldn't sing the back catalog, he'd get in trouble.

Guess the band should've just called it a day and turned down a buttload of money all because one of the members decided he'd rather sit on the bench for the last 13 years. That's just silly. Not sure why people think they should've hung it up because one guy didn't want to work. If people weren't liking it, they'd not be having any success and the proof is in the pudding.

Also- I GUARANTEE YOU that if Journey wasn't having the success they are today (modest as it is) nobody would hear from Perry ever again. But because Perry's old band is doing pretty well, all the sudden he's jumped into the studio. Jeepers, what a coincidence. So when Perry finally does emerge from the Cat Cave, don't forget who's influence brought him out. It certainly wasn't "The Faithful Ones".

Hell, yeah. Now here's a post.

Yes.....we all post and post and we go round and round....and in the end we all have our ideas of what Journey is to each of us.






and the discussion and disagreements will go on and on and on

There's 'ideas' and then there's 'facts'. The FACT is, the band is doing something right while Steve Perry is MIA.
Like I said, those who keep jumping to Perry's defense about how Arnel sounds nothing like him are the same ones whining that the band's a tribute act with a sound alike singer.

How can it be both ways???

Arnel sounds enough like Perry to do the job and do it WELL. It's not imitation. If it was, he'd have a tux jacket, spandex pants, a nose job, and a pair of Nikes that he'd be dragging all over the stage. They might as well have hired Hugo then (and I LIKE Hugo kids).
I'm not sure why it's so hard to give Arnel the credit he deserves.

It SUCKS that Perry isn't doing anything. But that has nothing to do with Journey's current success and I don't get why people want to slam that. If you're one of those who thinks Arnel doesn't sound like Perry and doesn't fit the band, that's one thing, but then you can't turn around and say it's a tribute band with a sound alike singer. That doesn't fit.

+1000

[Michigan Girl]

I'm w/JFB^^^^^up there no point in copying it ....You all can hear him from where you are!!

Oh and BTW, John I read that book "A Million Little Pieces" Great Book, too bad Oprah destroyed him!!!

[portland]

I'm w/JFB^^^^^up there no point in copying it ....You all can hear him from where you are!!

Yes John....I could not have put it any better myself....and well they still won't get it

[brywool]

....

Tried to answer all your points JFB, but it kept timing out. grrrr....

Anyway the point is, NOBODY is trying to erase Perry's legacy.
NOBODY is minimizing what he did- but many seem to want to minimize what's happening now.
I agree- Perry WAS the focal point. He's not now.

Also, Arnel's accent- if he was an 'imitator' he'd need to worry about that. He'd also have a tux jacket, spandex, and Nike's. The fact is, he's his own man and he can read the songs any way that he chooses and he is. He just has to be able to sing the songs and hit the notes and he is. Your mentioning that the back catalog will get him into trouble... um, that ship has sailed. He's fine.

Things are NOT subjective. The band's selling tickets, dvds, albums. That's NOT subjective, that's verifiable statistics. They're having good success.

Herbie Herbert said "you gotta make hay while the sun is shining". I guarantee you that Perry's heeding those words. If Journey wasn't out there, Perry wouldn't be anywhere to be found.

ALso, that book had NOTHING to do with the argument and it SUCKED.

And really, what does Neal's divorces have to do with ANYTHING? It's irrelevant. Silly.

[brywool]

I'm w/JFB^^^^^up there no point in copying it ....You all can hear him from where you are!!

Yes John....I could not have put it any better myself....and well they still won't get it

There's nothing to GET. Nobody is denying Perry's role in the band. NOBODY.
But the Perry peeps cannot STAND that the band is having success without him. It kills them.
And THEY continually deny or minimize the success that the current band is having.
It's like someone pulled off Santa's beard and it turned out to be someone's drunken uncle....

I have YET to see anyone claim that Arnel's version of Journey is eclipsing the original.
Having said that, you cannot deny the success that they're having because of this guy.
And you have to hand it to him.

You have ONE agenda Portland and rather than watch what is really happening with the band NOW, you'll live in the past forever. It's your loss. The band's doing some cool stuff, but I don't get your need to continually squat on those that are digging the success of the band. I'm not sure why there's not room for both (Perry and Journey) and I don't get why some in the Perry camp feel so threatened by it.

[portland]

I'm w/JFB^^^^^up there no point in copying it ....You all can hear him from where you are!!

Yes John....I could not have put it any better myself....and well they still won't get it

There's nothing to GET. Nobody is denying Perry's role in the band. NOBODY.
But the Perry peeps cannot STAND that the band is having success without him. It kills them.
And THEY continually deny or minimize the success that the current band is having.
It's like someone pulled off Santa's beard and it turned out to be someone's drunken uncle....

I have YET to see anyone claim that Arnel's version of Journey is eclipsing the original.
Having said that, you cannot deny the success that they're having because of this guy.
And you have to hand it to him.

You have ONE agenda Portland and rather than watch what is really happening with the band NOW, you'll live in the past forever. It's your loss. The band's doing some cool stuff, but I don't get your need to continually squat on those that are digging the success of the band. I'm not sure why there's not room for both (Perry and Journey) and I don't get why some in the Perry camp feel so threatened by it.

and I don't know why you feel the need to single me out....as there were three posts that you quoted by three different people.

So I guess I will have some company in the past...as I am not the only one here who seems to feel this way.....so whatever makes you happy there Bry...as you and I have been down this road before.

[Monker]

when Neal hired Arnel and made the decision to go back to the 'legacy sound', and rerecord Journey songs, he solidified the OPNION of Steve Perry = Journey into anybody's head who wanted to believe it. He also solidified Journey as a nostalgia band. They will never be anything more - no matter how many tickets or albums they sell...because it is all based on the "legacy sound' and old songs from the 80's, all pointing back to when Perry was in the band.

Some of you people really don't get it.[/quoe]

Oh, please, some people don't want to admint that NEAL SCHON admitted that when they hired Arnel they were setting out to sound like the 80's all over again. It's HIS admission, not mine - it's Neal Schon's.

First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.

Yep...which means they owe any success of Reveloation to the 80's sound. That in turn means they owe it to the efforts that Steve Perry put into the band, the voice the Arnel emulates, the voice that people want to close their eyes and remember as Journey. That is what Neal Schon wanted...and what he got: A nostalgia with an audience of nostalgic fans reliving the 80's, or pretending they are old enough to do so.

And of course Journey is a nostalgia band. I'm sure Neal would love to go on stage and play We Will Meet Again and Nickel and Dime, but the fact is that almost no one wants to hear that..

And, Neal also said that he "didn't know how long he would do this" if Journey became a nostalgia. Funny how money changes his mind.

Let's take Jay-Z as an example: when he's out touring, he don't play the fucking b-sides - he plays the HITS.

I really don't give a damn. I want something new and interesting. Not 80's sounding dated crap. I'd rather listen to Tall Stories or WET...hell, I'd rather listen to Red13 then Revelation.

You are just putting one version of Journey nostalgia against another. All that does is prove to me how backward thinking Journey fans are nowadays.

Thousands of girls got their cherry popped while Open Arms or Don't stop believing was playing on the radio - not one fucker lost their cherry to Butterfly (She Flies Alone) - so the point is that Journey will be playing the dirty dozen until they'll retire (unless they make a shitload of hits, which is highly unlikely since the market for AOR is pretty shit).

So stop your god awfull whining and try to see things objectively for once.

I see things very objectively. What you don't see is that you just made every Perryhead's argument for them. All Journey is is a band who owes all of their current success to the music of 198x. And, since they have a sound-a-like singer, it all now revolves around Steve Perry.

[Monker]

And Monker, why would Journey NOT keep making records according to the legacy sound? Why would they want to switch directions at this point in their career? Journey is Journey. People know what Journey sounds like. You can take risks on an album and branch out a little bit, but what's wrong with Journey making a "Journey record?"

Because that is not Journey. Journey never took one record and then tried to duplicate that sound because it was successful. That is not a "Journey record" to me. It is retro, not very creative...and quite frankly shows the band currectly has no forward thinking or the talent to move into new territory.

[Monker]

Why would I tear into that? That is basicaly what Neal said when he hired Arnel.

No, Neal is discussing Journey's legacy sound and how the songs were written around Steve Perry's voice. He did not limit the discussion to the Dirty Dozen. The pre-Perry sound of Journey was a prog-rock style that is very different from what became Journey's legacy sound and even that evolved throughout the years from the addition of SP and then the change from Gregg Rolie to Jonathan Cain. Neal's amazing guitar sound is a constant throughout, but was not the primary focus of the songwriting. The only two songs on Infinity that were not co-written by Steve Perry were 'Anytime' and 'Wheel in the Sky' - WITS was a hit, but it was SP's voice that was recognized most ("the voice on the radio") and that is from Neal on the BTM Special. Just consider Neal's comment when he first heard 'Open Arms': "What am I gonna do on this?"

If the legacy sound were based on Neal's guitar, it would not matter who the vocalist is, as long as he was good. Neal stated clearly that the reason JSS was let go was because he heard him sing a new track and it did not sound like Journey - Neal's guitar was on the track, but SP's vocals were not. The primary concern for Journey has been finding a vocalist who sounds like Steve Perry - that's why Neal hired Steve Augeri, fired JSS, and hired Arnel. If you want proof of how important Steve Perry's voice is to Journey, consider how much power and influence he had within the band after Infinity. By ROR, it was his baby (Kevin Elson's words, not mine) and by TBF, the band was willing to fire Herbie to get him back.

No one would discount the importance of Neal's guitar sound to Journey, but when the band discusses the legacy sound, they have been quite clear that they mean Steve Perry's voice. And Neal does not pander to anyone, including his fans.

You couldn't be more spot on with this post if you tried! I can't wait for freddie twinkle toes and Monker to tear into this one!

[Monker]

[quote="Escape81"]I COULD be mistaken, so please don't bite my head off.... but it doesn't seem like anyone here is trying to say that Steve P. wasn't a or THE major facet of the legacy sound.... just that there WAS more to the band than just him.[quote]

If there were more to the equation then just Steve Perry, then Neal would have the balls to say 'no' to the rerecords and the hiring of a Perry emulator.

[Monker]

Some of you people really don't get it. First of all, the re-records was just something the J-boyz had to do to land the Wal-Mart deal.

They were already doing the rerecords before Arnel/Walmart...there was talk of that when JSS was in the band...it dates back to that...

Soto made it clear that he was not gonna do the rerecords.

I didn't say he did them...I said they (the band) were already working on them before Arnel/Walmart...which means nobody made them do it.

and, I say you are wrong about that too...Because Andrew was hinting about a big Journey deal VERY early - while JSS was in the band.

[ttango1]

So what else is new? The Circle Jerk Continues.

Journey is out there touring while Steve chills in Del Mar with a yank your chain agenda of saying that maybe he'll record again.
I can actually like what they did before and what they're doing now and consider the whole thing...GOOD JOURNEY MUSIC AND TIMES.

Apparently, a great many of you still cannot. It doesn't change anything, it's not like YOUR OPINIONS are making this current version fail.

The numbers of verified achievements from their past 2 years indicate that Journey is a draw. Continue to berate AP, not because you MUST. It's because you WANT to. Find any little issue and then blow it out of proportion. I mean hell, the diction thing isn't really that big a deal and I know in which parts it'll be hardest for AP to sing when diction counts since Tagolog is my secondary language but hell... even with the little diction issues, has that stopped the flow of record & DVD sales? Nope. In today's climate where any song, DVD, or entire CD can be had with but a click of a button, the fact that this band called Journey has the #1 selling DVD is stupendous.

[Rick]

So what else is new? The Circle Jerk Continues.

Journey is out there touring while Steve chills in Del Mar with a yank your chain agenda of saying that maybe he'll record again.
I can actually like what they did before and what they're doing now and consider the whole thing...GOOD JOURNEY MUSIC AND TIMES.

Apparently, a great many of you still cannot. It doesn't change anything, it's not like YOUR OPINIONS are making this current version fail.

The numbers of verified achievements from their past 2 years indicate that Journey is a draw. Continue to berate AP, not because you MUST. It's because you WANT to. Find any little issue and then blow it out of proportion. I mean hell, the diction thing isn't really that big a deal and I know in which parts it'll be hardest for AP to sing when diction counts since Tagolog is my secondary language but hell... even with the little diction issues, has that stopped the flow of record & DVD sales? Nope. In today's climate where any song, DVD, or entire CD can be had with but a click of a button, the fact that this band called Journey has the #1 selling DVD is stupendous.

I agree. I'm digging the hell out of Journey right now. AP is doing a fantastic job. Those are humongous shoes to fill, he knows it, but does it brilliantly. There are a scant few people that can sing those songs. AP is damn sure a gift.

[Don]

Here you go.

http://www.journeymusic.com/

You guys will fit right in. Just don't drop the soap.

[Rick]

If it hasn't been posted yet. You cannot say AP isn't the fucking guy.

'One More' at Grasspop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVo0J-76enA

[StoneCold]

If it hasn't been posted yet. You cannot say AP isn't the fucking guy.

'One More' at Grasspop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVo0J-76enA

How about MOL? Don't remember seeng that from AP.

[Don]

If it hasn't been posted yet. You cannot say AP isn't the fucking guy.

'One More' at Grasspop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVo0J-76enA

How about MOL? Don't remember seeng that from AP.

I thought that when it came to MOL, JSS was the fucking guy.

[JasonD]

Here you go.

http://www.journeymusic.com/

You guys will fit right in. Just don't drop the soap.

And here you go. Enjoy!

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=91

[StoneCold]

If it hasn't been posted yet. You cannot say AP isn't the fucking guy.

'One More' at Grasspop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVo0J-76enA

How about MOL? Don't remember seeng that from AP.

I thought that when it came to MOL, JSS was the fucking guy.

JSS did MOL great, trying to find a clip of it.

AP could do it, lot of hold the note phrases.

The original however is kick ass.

Steve Perry - MOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT-xNlzsJ9U

[Don]

Here you go.

http://www.journeymusic.com/

You guys will fit right in. Just don't drop the soap.

And here you go. Enjoy!

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=91

Sorry buddy, I'm only interested in the work Steve Perry did with Journey and this is the forum for discussing that.

[StoneCold]

No luck on the MOL by Jeff yet. In the meantime these are just as good.

Doesn't even seem like the same band. Jeff owns that stage. Wow,


AWYWI - JSS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYkSD2dg-6Q

SW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCga3vF5nMI

[Don]

I think I've been pretty outspoken on my feelings regarding FTLOSM and ROR (Perry's semi solo project). My point with the link was to show that people that get their feelings hurt over any criticsm of Pineda have a place to go where everybody just heaps praise upon praise on the little dude and everything is sunshine and ponies with no chance of people like me voicing a different opinion and coming in and trampling on their fragile feelings.

[Don]

No luck on the MOL by Jeff yet. In the meantime these are just as good.

Doesn't even seem like the same band. Jeff owns that stage. Wow,


AWYWI - JSS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYkSD2dg-6Q

SW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCga3vF5nMI

Actually, Rick has a video.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ricksvidz?b ... LD-d-h_qfs

[Don]

No luck on the MOL by Jeff yet. In the meantime these are just as good.

Doesn't even seem like the same band. Jeff owns that stage. Wow,


AWYWI - JSS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYkSD2dg-6Q

SW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCga3vF5nMI

This is Stage Presence, not that Mexican jumping bean stuff we've seen the last two years.

[StoneCold]

No luck on the MOL by Jeff yet. In the meantime these are just as good.

Doesn't even seem like the same band. Jeff owns that stage. Wow,


AWYWI - JSS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYkSD2dg-6Q

SW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCga3vF5nMI

This is Stage Presence, not that Mexican jumping bean stuff we've seen the last two years.

Is it my imagination or does Friga look even less manly when Jeff stands near him? Poor Friga.