Question to Jeremy that he doesn't have to answer...

[steveo777]

The Cain link above edited to be clickable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8CLNL9HvQ4


Funny he at first says, we looking forward to writing with him some and then laughs and says Neal and I have a handle on the writing department.

Translation: Arnel can kick it at the pinoy TV shows until we need him.

who is Cain? Friga loves saying "package"

I think he wants to kick you in the jimmy.

[Don]

To be honest, unless the the next album has songs that become radio staples or part of a successful movie soudtrack, the royalty question surrounding writing credits is pretty non-significant.

[stevew2]

The Cain link above edited to be clickable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8CLNL9HvQ4


Funny he at first says, we looking forward to writing with him some and then laughs and says Neal and I have a handle on the writing department.

Translation: Arnel can kick it at the pinoy TV shows until we need him.

who is Cain? Friga loves saying "package"

I think he wants to kick you in the jimmy.

He is to busy sittin on his ass play cheesy intros, and drinkin white Zinfidel

[Escape81]

I think the writing for Revelation was pretty damn solid given the fact that it was just Jon and Neal across the board..... TBF was probably the pinnacle for mature writing in my opinion though..... I do think Jon and Neal should collaborate with Jack Blades (Higher Place anyone???) again, in addition to Arnel.... but I have faith for the band in the writing department. Jonathan Cain is a spectacular lyricist.

[steveo777]

I think the writing for Revelation was pretty damn solid given the fact that it was just Jon and Neal across the board..... TBF was probably the pinnacle for mature writing in my opinion though..... I do think Jon and Neal should collaborate with Jack Blades (Higher Place anyone???) again, in addition to Arnel.... but I have faith for the band in the writing department. Jonathan Cain is a spectacular sappy ballad lyricist.

And therein lies the problem when you want to make an album that's a rocker. (Fixed that for ya, btw)

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Dan shut up!!!! To you TBF sucks...others here are actually are quite fond of it

Can I start applying this to when you run your mouth and remind everyone of your dislike of present-day Journey in every single thread? Can I say:

"Portland shut up!!!! To you Journey circa 2009 sucks...others here are actually quite fond of it and just happy to be able to see Journey still making music and playing live."

Fair? Because it seems to me you have no problem dishing it out, but you clearly can't take it.

[portland]

Dan shut up!!!! To you TBF sucks...others here are actually are quite fond of it

Can I start applying this to when you run your mouth and remind everyone of your dislike of present-day Journey in every single thread? Can I say:

"Portland shut up!!!! To you Journey circa 2009 sucks...others here are actually quite fond of it and just happy to be able to see Journey still making music and playing live."

Fair? Because it seems to me you have no problem dishing it out, but you clearly can't take it.

You can tell me to shut up all you want...not a problem at all.....BTW Dan and I tell each other to get bent all the time and Yes I am more than happy to take whatever you care to dish out to me

[steveo777]

Dan shut up!!!! To you TBF sucks...others here are actually are quite fond of it

Can I start applying this to when you run your mouth and remind everyone of your dislike of present-day Journey in every single thread? Can I say:

"Portland shut up!!!! To you Journey circa 2009 sucks...others here are actually quite fond of it and just happy to be able to see Journey still making music and playing live."

Fair? Because it seems to me you have no problem dishing it out, but you clearly can't take it.

Spot on, dude. That's my beef with Portland as well. I like her, just disagree with when she does this kind of shit. Of course she will be the first to tell you I'm no angel either. Portland, last time you hit me over the head with your tightly knotted panties it hurt.

[Jana]

I think the writing for Revelation was pretty damn solid given the fact that it was just Jon and Neal across the board..... TBF was probably the pinnacle for mature writing in my opinion though..... I do think Jon and Neal should collaborate with Jack Blades (Higher Place anyone???) again, in addition to Arnel.... but I have faith for the band in the writing department. Jonathan Cain is a spectacular sappy ballad lyricist.

And therein lies the problem when you want to make an album that's a rocker. (Fixed that for ya, btw)

I'm so very tired of Jon Cain getting this one-sided comment. He was a major songwriter on ALL OF THEIR SONGS once he joined, and they sure weren't all sappy ballads. Why doesn't anyone on here call Perry a sappy-ballad writer as he sure went in that direction too?

[Jana]

Dan shut up!!!! To you TBF sucks...others here are actually are quite fond of it

Can I start applying this to when you run your mouth and remind everyone of your dislike of present-day Journey in every single thread? Can I say:

"Portland shut up!!!! To you Journey circa 2009 sucks...others here are actually quite fond of it and just happy to be able to see Journey still making music and playing live."

Fair? Because it seems to me you have no problem dishing it out, but you clearly can't take it.

You can tell me to shut up all you want...not a problem at all.....BTW Dan and I tell each other to get bent all the time and Yes I am more than happy to take whatever you care to dish out to me

SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!

[portland]

Dan shut up!!!! To you TBF sucks...others here are actually are quite fond of it

Can I start applying this to when you run your mouth and remind everyone of your dislike of present-day Journey in every single thread? Can I say:

"Portland shut up!!!! To you Journey circa 2009 sucks...others here are actually quite fond of it and just happy to be able to see Journey still making music and playing live."

Fair? Because it seems to me you have no problem dishing it out, but you clearly can't take it.

Spot on, dude. That's my beef with Portland as well. I like her, just disagree with when she does this kind of shit. Of course she will be the first to tell you I'm no angel either. Portland, last time you hit me over the head with your tightly knotted panties it hurt.

Hey you can tell me to shut up all you want as well.......and I don't think I have ever not taken what I dish out here....I just don't like personal threats...that is where I draw the line.

[steveo777]

I think the writing for Revelation was pretty damn solid given the fact that it was just Jon and Neal across the board..... TBF was probably the pinnacle for mature writing in my opinion though..... I do think Jon and Neal should collaborate with Jack Blades (Higher Place anyone???) again, in addition to Arnel.... but I have faith for the band in the writing department. Jonathan Cain is a spectacular sappy ballad lyricist.

And therein lies the problem when you want to make an album that's a rocker. (Fixed that for ya, btw)

I'm so very tired of Jon Cain getting this one-sided comment. He was a major songwriter on ALL OF THEIR SONGS once he joined, and they sure weren't all sappy ballads. Why doesn't anyone on here call Perry a sappy-ballad writer as he sure went in that direction too?

Do you deny that is his specialty? I think JC is very talented and I love his work. I think he leans more to the ballad side but that's not a slam by any means.

[steveo777]

Dan shut up!!!! To you TBF sucks...others here are actually are quite fond of it

Can I start applying this to when you run your mouth and remind everyone of your dislike of present-day Journey in every single thread? Can I say:

"Portland shut up!!!! To you Journey circa 2009 sucks...others here are actually quite fond of it and just happy to be able to see Journey still making music and playing live."

Fair? Because it seems to me you have no problem dishing it out, but you clearly can't take it.

Spot on, dude. That's my beef with Portland as well. I like her, just disagree with when she does this kind of shit. Of course she will be the first to tell you I'm no angel either. Portland, last time you hit me over the head with your tightly knotted panties it hurt.

Hey you can tell me to shut up all you want as well.......and I don't think I have ever not taken what I dish out here....I just don't like personal threats...that is where I draw the line.

Threats? Well I know you're not talking about me.

[Escape81]

I think the writing for Revelation was pretty damn solid given the fact that it was just Jon and Neal across the board..... TBF was probably the pinnacle for mature writing in my opinion though..... I do think Jon and Neal should collaborate with Jack Blades (Higher Place anyone???) again, in addition to Arnel.... but I have faith for the band in the writing department. Jonathan Cain is a spectacular sappy ballad lyricist.

And therein lies the problem when you want to make an album that's a rocker. (Fixed that for ya, btw)

Really???? A quick Google search tells me Jon's name is listed on the following Journey credits.....

DSB
Stone In Love
Keep On Running
Escape
Lay It Down
Dead Or Alive
Mother, Father
La Raza Del Sol
Separate Ways
Chain Reaction
Edge of the Blade
BackTalk
Frontiers
Rubicon
Only the Young
Ask the Lonely
Liberty
Only Solutions
Be Good To Yourself
Message of Love
One More
Castles Burning
Can't Tame the Lion
I Can See It In Your Eyes
Signs of Life
World Gone Wild
I Got A Reason
To Be Alive Again
Nothin Comes Close
State of Grace
The Time
I Can Breathe
Faith in the Heartland
The Place In Your Heart
Every Generation
Out of Harm's Way
In Self Defense
Better Together
Never Too Late
Never Walk Away
Change For the Better
Wildest Dream
Where Did I Lose Your Love
What It Takes To Win

.....Sorry, the idea that Jon Cain cant write spectacular ROCK songs.... is a myth.....

[stevew2]

Dan shut up!!!! To you TBF sucks...others here are actually are quite fond of it

Can I start applying this to when you run your mouth and remind everyone of your dislike of present-day Journey in every single thread? Can I say:

"Portland shut up!!!! To you Journey circa 2009 sucks...others here are actually quite fond of it and just happy to be able to see Journey still making music and playing live."

Fair? Because it seems to me you have no problem dishing it out, but you clearly can't take it.

Spot on, dude. That's my beef with Portland as well. I like her, just disagree with when she does this kind of shit. Of course she will be the first to tell you I'm no angel either. Portland, last time you hit me over the head with your tightly knotted panties it hurt.

Hey you can tell me to shut up all you want as well.......and I don't think I have ever not taken what I dish out here....I just don't like personal threats...that is where I draw the line.

Im corn pickin your avatar

[Jana]

I think the writing for Revelation was pretty damn solid given the fact that it was just Jon and Neal across the board..... TBF was probably the pinnacle for mature writing in my opinion though..... I do think Jon and Neal should collaborate with Jack Blades (Higher Place anyone???) again, in addition to Arnel.... but I have faith for the band in the writing department. Jonathan Cain is a spectacular sappy ballad lyricist.

And therein lies the problem when you want to make an album that's a rocker. (Fixed that for ya, btw)

Really???? A quick Google search tells me Jon's name is listed on the following Journey credits.....

DSB
Stone In Love
Keep On Running
Escape
Lay It Down
Dead Or Alive
Mother, Father
La Raza Del Sol
Separate Ways
Chain Reaction
Edge of the Blade
BackTalk
Frontiers
Rubicon
Only the Young
Ask the Lonely
Liberty
Only Solutions
Be Good To Yourself
Message of Love
One More
Castles Burning
Can't Tame the Lion
I Can See It In Your Eyes
Signs of Life
World Gone Wild
I Got A Reason
To Be Alive Again
Nothin Comes Close
State of Grace
The Time
I Can Breathe
Faith in the Heartland
The Place In Your Heart
Every Generation
Out of Harm's Way
In Self Defense
Better Together
Never Too Late
Never Walk Away
Change For the Better
Wildest Dream
Where Did I Lose Your Love
What It Takes To Win

.....Sorry, the idea that Jon Cain cant write spectacular ROCK songs.... is a myth.....

Thank you. Since he joined he has been one of the major writers of every song practically.

[Escape81]

I think the writing for Revelation was pretty damn solid given the fact that it was just Jon and Neal across the board..... TBF was probably the pinnacle for mature writing in my opinion though..... I do think Jon and Neal should collaborate with Jack Blades (Higher Place anyone???) again, in addition to Arnel.... but I have faith for the band in the writing department. Jonathan Cain is a spectacular sappy ballad lyricist.

And therein lies the problem when you want to make an album that's a rocker. (Fixed that for ya, btw)

I'm so very tired of Jon Cain getting this one-sided comment. He was a major songwriter on ALL OF THEIR SONGS once he joined, and they sure weren't all sappy ballads. Why doesn't anyone on here call Perry a sappy-ballad writer as he sure went in that direction too?

Do you deny that is his specialty? I think JC is very talented and I love his work. I think he leans more to the ballad side but that's not a slam by any means.

This is a much improved and acceptable post imho..... it certainly does seem to be his SPECIALTY, but not his LIMITATION.... and it seems like theyve rocked harder WITH JC than without.

[steveo777]

I think the writing for Revelation was pretty damn solid given the fact that it was just Jon and Neal across the board..... TBF was probably the pinnacle for mature writing in my opinion though..... I do think Jon and Neal should collaborate with Jack Blades (Higher Place anyone???) again, in addition to Arnel.... but I have faith for the band in the writing department. Jonathan Cain is a spectacular sappy ballad lyricist.

And therein lies the problem when you want to make an album that's a rocker. (Fixed that for ya, btw)

Really???? A quick Google search tells me Jon's name is listed on the following Journey credits.....

DSB
Stone In Love
Keep On Running
Escape
Lay It Down
Dead Or Alive
Mother, Father
La Raza Del Sol
Separate Ways
Chain Reaction
Edge of the Blade
BackTalk
Frontiers
Rubicon
Only the Young
Ask the Lonely
Liberty
Only Solutions
Be Good To Yourself
Message of Love
One More
Castles Burning
Can't Tame the Lion
I Can See It In Your Eyes
Signs of Life
World Gone Wild
I Got A Reason
To Be Alive Again
Nothin Comes Close
State of Grace
The Time
I Can Breathe
Faith in the Heartland
The Place In Your Heart
Every Generation
Out of Harm's Way
In Self Defense
Better Together
Never Too Late
Never Walk Away
Change For the Better
Wildest Dream
Where Did I Lose Your Love
What It Takes To Win

.....Sorry, the idea that Jon Cain cant write spectacular ROCK songs.... is a myth.....

Thank you. Since he joined he has been one of the major writers of every song practically.

Ok, in all fairness to you two, you're right. Somehow I always associated Jon with the ballads and have never paid this much attention to his actually writing credits. I stand corrected.

[Don]

Cain can write rock, but it is usually in the realm of soft rock. The guy plays a piano so it's natural that all the stuff that he is the PRIMARY contributor on leans to an adult contempemporary style.

Journey's stuff since he came on board is pretty sanitized. Rock has always had gritty lyrics but you won't find much of that post Captured. Where's the songs about having a beer and being with your girlfriend in the backseat? I think this a big reason Richie Sambora and Jon Bon Jovi are in the songwriters hall of fame, while Cain/Perry/Schon are not. Journey uses a lot of abstract terminology in their songs that tries to placate everyone but comes across as an afterschool special musically. They write the stuff that can be easily transfered to the Disney channel and covered by 12 year olds. I'm not letting Perry off the hook on this either but his solo stuff is more adult sounding, even if it does come across as depressing emo-pop, sometimes.

[Jana]

It's not just you, SteveO. It's everybody. But Perry is never mentioned as a sappy ballad writer in all those sappy ballads that Jon wrote, in which Perry's name is on there also, except Faithfully, one of the best ballads ever written.

[portland]

Dan shut up!!!! To you TBF sucks...others here are actually are quite fond of it

Can I start applying this to when you run your mouth and remind everyone of your dislike of present-day Journey in every single thread? Can I say:

"Portland shut up!!!! To you Journey circa 2009 sucks...others here are actually quite fond of it and just happy to be able to see Journey still making music and playing live."

Fair? Because it seems to me you have no problem dishing it out, but you clearly can't take it.

You can tell me to shut up all you want...not a problem at all.....BTW Dan and I tell each other to get bent all the time and Yes I am more than happy to take whatever you care to dish out to me

SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!

BACK AT YA JANA!!!!

[steveo777]

It's not just you, SteveO. It's everybody. But Perry is never mentioned as a sappy ballad writer in all those sappy ballads that Jon wrote, in which Perry's name is on there also, except Faithfully, one of the best ballads ever written.

Hey, I never mentioned Perry because, like Duh! ......everyone know this.

[Jana]

It's not just you, SteveO. It's everybody. But Perry is never mentioned as a sappy ballad writer in all those sappy ballads that Jon wrote, in which Perry's name is on there also, except Faithfully, one of the best ballads ever written.

Hey, I never mentioned Perry because, like Duh! ......everyone know this.

Not really. Everyone on here makes digs at Cain all the time, sappy ballad writer, blah, blah, but never Saint Perry is mentioned. Okay. I'm off my soapbox. I don't care anyway. I love all of their songs except songs like Dixie Highway and such, and until Cain a lot of their songwriting was more simple in the lyrics department.

[Don]

Cain has released nine solo albums over the last 15 years. Seeing as none of these albums have ever gone anywhere, is it safe to assume that, despite him being this great songwriter, no one really takes him seriously as an artist without the rest of Journey? Perry and Shon both have had Grammy nominations sans Journey. This guy, without the other two is a non-entity. The guy has two BMI awards but both are shared with Perry (Open Arms, Who's Crying Now). Maybe this country music thing he's doing with his daughter will be the thing that really lets him shine on his own, without the band. Maybe country music is his true calling and he just needed 40 years to figure it out.

[Jana]

Cain has released nine solo albums over the last 15 years. Seeing as none of these albums have ever gone anywhere, is it safe to assume that, despite him being this great songwriter, no one really takes him seriously as an artist without the rest of Journey? Perry and Shon both have had Grammy nominations sans Journey. This guy, without the other two is a non-entity. The guy has two BMI awards but both are shared with Perry (Open Arms, Who's Crying Now). Maybe this country music thing he's doing with his daughter will be the thing that really lets him shine n his own, without the band. Maybe country music is his true calling and he just needed 40 years to figure it out.

He's done plenty just being with Journey. Maybe you think he needs to shine on his own. Perry didn't write those songs alone on his solo album. As I recall, he had plenty of writers to help him put those albums together songwise and neither solo album, to me, was ever as good as him with a Journey album. My count, nine other songwriters had credits on Street Talk, nine or eight. I guess Perry can't do it on his own either.

[Don]

Cain has released nine solo albums over the last 15 years. Seeing as none of these albums have ever gone anywhere, is it safe to assume that, despite him being this great songwriter, no one really takes him seriously as an artist without the rest of Journey? Perry and Shon both have had Grammy nominations sans Journey. This guy, without the other two is a non-entity. The guy has two BMI awards but both are shared with Perry (Open Arms, Who's Crying Now). Maybe this country music thing he's doing with his daughter will be the thing that really lets him shine n his own, without the band. Maybe country music is his true calling and he just needed 40 years to figure it out.

He's done plenty just being with Journey. Maybe you think he needs to shine on his own. Perry didn't write those songs alone on his solo album. As I recall, he had plenty of writers to help him put those albums together songwise.

Did I say Perry wrote them by himself? Nay.

[Escape81]

Cain has released nine solo albums over the last 15 years. Seeing as none of these albums have ever gone anywhere, is it safe to assume that, despite him being this great songwriter, no one really takes him seriously as an artist without the rest of Journey? Perry and Shon both have had Grammy nominations sans Journey. This guy, without the other two is a non-entity. The guy has two BMI awards but both are shared with Perry (Open Arms, Who's Crying Now). Maybe this country music thing he's doing with his daughter will be the thing that really lets him shine on his own, without the band. Maybe country music is his true calling and he just needed 40 years to figure it out.

I'm pretty sure this isnt the case....... the fact that JC isnt rolling around in awards for something that is, let's face it, subjective doesn't mean that "no one takes him seriously." Steve Perry and Neal Schon are pretty much musical heavyweights in some circles.... but its not like everyone drops Steve P.'s name when theyre asked "who's a great singer" and same for Neal with regards to guitarists..... ALL of Journey's members are constantly underrated, JC is no exception.

[Don]

Cain has released nine solo albums over the last 15 years. Seeing as none of these albums have ever gone anywhere, is it safe to assume that, despite him being this great songwriter, no one really takes him seriously as an artist without the rest of Journey? Perry and Shon both have had Grammy nominations sans Journey. This guy, without the other two is a non-entity. The guy has two BMI awards but both are shared with Perry (Open Arms, Who's Crying Now). Maybe this country music thing he's doing with his daughter will be the thing that really lets him shine on his own, without the band. Maybe country music is his true calling and he just needed 40 years to figure it out.

I'm pretty sure this isnt the case....... the fact that JC isnt rolling around in awards for something that is, let's face it, subjective doesn't mean that "no one takes him seriously." Steve Perry and Neal Schon are pretty much musical heavyweights in some circles.... but its not like everyone drops Steve P.'s name when theyre asked "who's a great singer" and same for Neal with regards to guitarists..... ALL of Journey's members are constantly underrated, JC is no exception.

Perry and to a smaller extent, Schon do make it onto those subjective lists quite a bit though.

[Escape81]

Songwriting is subjective...... I dont think one can deny that Steve P. is a talented singer or Neal S. is a talented guitarist..... they might not LIKE their talents or how they apply their talents, but I'm pretty sure no one in their right mind can deny such capability. Songwriting, lyrics, is rather like poetry or art. Some could look at Picasso or Da Vinci and see absolute shit and there's no real objective way to measure it..... regardless, JC has been Journey's primary writing force since his first day.... Good or bad.

And Id like to see some of these lists..... NS is constantly snubbed by major magazines and catalogues...... SP came in, what??? 76???? Beat out by Bob Dylan???? Hell I'd rather him not be listed at all...... the fact of the matter is that people with less technical aptitude than NS and less vocal skill than SP get more attention and praise and whatnot by the media and other musicians.... JC is no exception.

So really I don't see how someone could make that claim. ALL of them get snubbed and overlooked on a constant basis...... its the great tragedy of the band.

[Ehwmatt]

Cain can write rock, but it is usually in the realm of soft rock. The guy plays a piano so it's natural that all the stuff that he is the PRIMARY contributor on leans to an adult contempemporary style.

Journey's stuff since he came on board is pretty sanitized. Rock has always had gritty lyrics but you won't find much of that post Captured. Where's the songs about having a beer and being with your girlfriend in the backseat? I think this a big reason Richie Sambora and Jon Bon Jovi are in the songwriters hall of fame, while Cain/Perry/Schon are not. Journey uses a lot of abstract terminology in their songs that tries to placate everyone but comes across as an afterschool special musically. They write the stuff that can be easily transfered to the Disney channel and covered by 12 year olds. I'm not letting Perry off the hook on this either but his solo stuff is more adult sounding, even if it does come across as depressing emo-pop, sometimes.

You know what though? Generations, for all thats wrong with it (plenty), had some GREAT lyrical moments. These guys are capable of good lyrics when they want to. I think Signs of Life is an excellent lyrical song too... the "I'm not a dead man walkin without you" line is great.

I think they do get that rocking feel to their lyrics with songs like Do You Recall, When You're In Love It Ain't Easy, and Party's Over, and there are some other good ones in the catalog, such Ask The Lonely (When you're feeling love's unfair, you just ask the lonely - great stuff I think), Trial by Fire (the song), Mother Father, and Who's Cryin Now.

Now, they aren't singing songs laced with metaphor or rife with historical significance, and some of their lyrics leave a lot to be desired, but they aren't too bad across the board imo and there are some gems in there. I think when they set out to tell a story, ala Better Life, FITH, Mother Father, even maybe Turn Down The World Tonight (I can picture the couple in that song), or I'll Be Alright Without You, they have done a great job. I'm no lyrical analyst or specialist, especially with this kind of music, because there's so much to focus on above the lyrics: The big harmonies, soaring vocals, melodic guitar, keys, great drumming etc.