Transsexual Jesus

[conversationpc]

Again, I respect in all that one believes in. It's hard to really determine tone through a topic like this.

Agreed.

With that said, I am not close minded. I am as open minded as anyone I've ever known. Again, I went to church, I went through studies, I went through all of this. I came to my own conclusion, and not that of a priest, or someone expecting me to believe it just because, that the Bible is not only filth, but there is awfully something wrong if people can sit there and that that the Bible is morally correct. Thus, I came up with my own judgment and that judgment is that despite anything that is said in the Bible, I cannot fathom it to be A.) Fact or B) Believable without concrete facts. Now, I've tried to have debates with people about this, and it is always the bible pusher pointing the finger in my face and assuring me that I am wrong and that I will be sorry one day. That's a threat, and a threat of a close minded person who can't talk the subject without getting offended. I am all ears, and what these ears have heard, I just can't wrap my finger onto believing such a fairy tale.

With all due respect, there is no one alive that is completely open-minded. I'm as open-minded as anyone but I'm honest enough to admit that there are things I know and believe that I'm not going to change my mind on. Same for you. It's pretty obvious that you've got your mind made up about this and there's nothing wrong with that. You're free to believe as you do and I can't force you to believe differently.

[verslibre]

I am convinced, only because during my 21 year career here on Earth that is life

You're only 21 years old?

"Bo, you don't know Diddley."

[Pelata]

With all due respect, there is no one alive that is completely open-minded. I'm as open-minded as anyone but I'm honest enough to admit that there are things I know and believe that I'm not going to change my mind on. Same for you. It's pretty obvious that you've got your mind made up about this and there's nothing wrong with that. You're free to believe as you do and I can't force you to believe differently.

VERY well stated.

[YoungJRNY]

Again, I respect in all that one believes in. It's hard to really determine tone through a topic like this.

Agreed.

With that said, I am not close minded. I am as open minded as anyone I've ever known. Again, I went to church, I went through studies, I went through all of this. I came to my own conclusion, and not that of a priest, or someone expecting me to believe it just because, that the Bible is not only filth, but there is awfully something wrong if people can sit there and that that the Bible is morally correct. Thus, I came up with my own judgment and that judgment is that despite anything that is said in the Bible, I cannot fathom it to be A.) Fact or B) Believable without concrete facts. Now, I've tried to have debates with people about this, and it is always the bible pusher pointing the finger in my face and assuring me that I am wrong and that I will be sorry one day. That's a threat, and a threat of a close minded person who can't talk the subject without getting offended. I am all ears, and what these ears have heard, I just can't wrap my finger onto believing such a fairy tale.

With all due respect, there is no one alive that is completely open-minded. I'm as open-minded as anyone but I'm honest enough to admit that there are things I know and believe that I'm not going to change my mind on. Same for you. It's pretty obvious that you've got your mind made up about this and there's nothing wrong with that. You're free to believe as you do and I can't force you to believe differently.

Agreed.. and like Pelata said, very well stated. The problem isn't religion and belief of one individually. The problem I have with religion is that it gets to the point where political parties and people of that nature are debating our world across the world as the reason behind it all, is God. I can't recall who it was I'm going blank, but I remember watching a hearing on Global Warming, and a senator claimed that there is no reasoning behind Global Warming, other than GOD and that's all that's to it. THAT OPPOSES A PROBLEM as audiences are FORCED to believe that. Other than that I respect what you had to say and it's something we'll never agree and see eye to eye on. Such is life.

[S2M]

Pssst. 'God' told me Denver will win on Monday Night.

[YoungJRNY]

Pssst. 'God' told me Denver will win on Monday Night.

Funny, as 'God' IS a Steelers fan.

[verslibre]

The problem isn't religion and belief of one individually. The problem I have with religion is that it gets to the point where political parties and people of that nature are debating our world across the world as the reason behind it all, is God. I can't recall who it was I'm going blank, but I remember watching a hearing on Global Warming, and a senator claimed that there is no reasoning behind Global Warming, other than GOD and that's all that's to it. THAT OPPOSES A PROBLEM as audiences are FORCED to believe that. Other than that I respect what you had to say and it's something we'll never agree and see eye to eye on. Such is life.

I've never heard of any senator making such a statement. Global warming and cooling are naturally-occurring cycles and it's reinforced over and over that man is either a) totally responsible, or b) aggravating the problem.

Unless you provide a name, I can't believe what you just said. Sorry, "I need proof."

And nobody is FORCED to believe anything. Was the audience being waterboarded at the time?

Also, you wrote "that opposes a problem" — you mean poses. Brush up on your vocabulary, dude.

[conversationpc]

Also, you wrote "that opposes a problem" — you mean poses. Brush up on your vocabulary, dude.

[bluejeangirl76]

Again, I respect in all that one believes in. It's

Agreed.

With all due respect,

Agreed.. .

Other than that I respect what you had to say

This IS melodicrock.com, isnt it? What's with all the agreeing and respecting?

I was looking for bloodshed.

[verslibre]

Also, you wrote "that opposes a problem" — you mean poses. Brush up on your vocabulary, dude.

Exactly what I was thinking when I wrote it.

[YoungJRNY]

The problem isn't religion and belief of one individually. The problem I have with religion is that it gets to the point where political parties and people of that nature are debating our world across the world as the reason behind it all, is God. I can't recall who it was I'm going blank, but I remember watching a hearing on Global Warming, and a senator claimed that there is no reasoning behind Global Warming, other than GOD and that's all that's to it. THAT OPPOSES A PROBLEM as audiences are FORCED to believe that. Other than that I respect what you had to say and it's something we'll never agree and see eye to eye on. Such is life.

I've never heard of any senator making such a statement. Global warming and cooling are naturally-occurring cycles and it's reinforced over and over that man is either a) totally responsible, or b) aggravating the problem.

Unless you provide a name, I can't believe what you just said. Sorry, "I need proof."

And nobody is FORCED to believe anything. Was the audience being waterboarded at the time?

Also, you wrote "that opposes a problem" — you mean poses. Brush up on your vocabulary, dude.

When in doubt, go after a grammar error. I know, God gave you special privileges and put it in your gene for you to NEVER.. EVER create an error when it came to vocabulary. So, if I were you, I'd feel pretty damn good about yourself to be spiritually blessed! Only if I believed, maybe I would have used poses instead of opposes. Damned me to hell... dude.

BTW: Here's the evidence, or PROOF of the video of I as talking about. Rep. John Shimkus of Illinois. There is your PROOF of this video does exist. FACT, something religion abusers can't do. Whatever this politician was saying, is embarrassing to all the intelligence of humanity.

Ladies and Gentleman, I give you Rep. John Shimkus of Illinois. (There's your name!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7h08RDY ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jman-Dkjv3Q

[Jana]

I was raised Baptist; eventually went back to church as an adult but related more to Presbyterian and enjoyed their sermons. Baptist puts me to sleep and makes me less religious in their style. I had to attend a few times with my father after my mom passed away. It was excruciating. But, truthfully, I question it all now. I'm tired of someone saying they prayed to God and God saved their husband in 9-11 (On Oprah). What, all the other souls weren't worth saving by God or the ones horribly disfigured by fire in the explosion weren't worthy of their loved ones' prayers? Children sexually abused and tortured and yet murderers and rapists not a scratch on them their whole lives, but a preacher and his wife on a trip have a car accident and lose all five of their children. None of it makes sense to me. I don't see God saving people's lives that are enduring horrific abuse and crimes, especially innocent children. I could only rationalize that by a Presbyterian minister who said you don't pray to God to give you something or save someone. (He had just lost his son in a tragic accident) You pray to God to help you in the way you handle his will and tragedy. That made sense, but I just don't know.

And I believed blindly in God until I began reading the Bible more and it actually made me go the other way. It all sounds preposterous and the logical side of me can't grasp it. I'm neutral on it now and don't not believe but definitely don't 100 percent believe like I used to and have many questions. sorry for the double negative.

[Zedul]

Don't waste your time arguing with God haters.... they are all full of crap.

They run about in life doing and saying whatever the hell they want because they are insubordinate juvenile mean spirited bullying assholes.

Then

When they are dying or sick or in complete misery you'll see them praying their asses off, it's always the same.

Atheists have always turned out to be bigger hypocrites than any Jesus Freaks I have known.

The irony is that all these stupid atheists and god haters are putting our society in a position to be taken down by the worst thing of all... Monotheistic Facists.

A century from now it will be illegal in the world to be an Atheist or Agnostic, or believe in Christ or do anything but look towards Mecca and kneel like a lemming.

Dumbasses.

[Michigan Girl]

With all due respect, there is no one alive that is completely open-minded. I'm as open-minded as anyone but I'm honest enough to admit that there are things I know and believe that I'm not going to change my mind on. Same for you. It's pretty obvious that you've got your mind made up about this and there's nothing wrong with that. You're free to believe as you do and I can't force you to believe differently.

VERY well stated.

Totally agree, perfect!!

[YoungJRNY]

Don't waste your time arguing with God haters.... they are all full of crap.

They run about in life doing and saying whatever the hell they want because they are insubordinate juvenile mean spirited bullying assholes.

Then

When they are dying or sick or in complete misery you'll see them praying their asses off, it's always the same.

Atheists have always turned out to be bigger hypocrites than any Jesus Freaks I have known.

The irony is that all these stupid atheists and god haters are putting our society in a position to be taken down by the worst thing of all... Monotheistic Facists.

A century from now it will be illegal in the world to be an Atheist or Agnostic, or believe in Christ or do anything but look towards Mecca and kneel like a lemming.

Dumbasses.

Thanks for proving my point earlier. You are doing well thus far.

To my knowledge, it is religion who corrupted beings into taking part in suicide bombings, war and most recently and coincidentally, it was the people believing in their own god, and running our own planes into the heart of America in one of the biggest terrorist attack on America!

Atheist's do nothing but oppose the question and rebuttal to religion's answers. Atheist do nothing but ... get ready.. actually look into bringing logic to such theory's and being called dumb ass's for it just proves a point of watered down minds!


By the way, I'm glad you brought up prayer into this convo. If we are apart of God's 'divine' plan.. then why pray in the first place? If he would somehow, for whatever reason, answer the prayer of some average, homeless joe on the streets for no apparent reason, then wouldn't that mess up his well thought out divine plan to begin with, thus messing with his creation as a whole? In short, it's people who pray who are selfish to ask God to change his divine plan just for themselves!

When they are dying or sick or in complete misery you'll see them praying their asses off, it's always the same.

Read this. An extremely religious family who didn't believe in medicine for their young daughter who had diabetes. They believed that with the magic of prayer, that she would be healed. Someone, please explain this to me! Disgusting! I guess all that prayer didn't do much help there, did it? (They actually said in another interview that they believe she will resurrect from the dead!!)

http://www.medindia.net/news/view_news_ ... =2&x=34768

[verslibre]

When in doubt, go after a grammar error. I know, God gave you special privileges and put it in your gene for you to NEVER.. EVER create an error when it came to vocabulary. So, if I were you, I'd feel pretty damn good about yourself to be spiritually blessed! Only if I believed, maybe I would have used poses instead of opposes. Damned me to hell... dude.

LOL...feelin' butt-hurt? I was just trying to help you out, so you don't look "thtoopid" later, when you're talking to somebody "IRL."

To my knowledge, it is religion who corrupted beings into taking part in suicide bombings, war and most recently and coincidentally, it was the people believing in their own god, and running our own planes into the heart of America in one of the biggest terrorist attack on America!

Atheist's do nothing but oppose the question and rebuttal to religion's answers. Atheist do nothing but ... get ready.. actually look into bringing logic to such theory's and being called dumb ass's for it just proves a point of watered down minds!

Yep. Definitely a chip on your shoulder.

What cracks me up is a couple years back I questioned the Six Days of Creation as being literal "twenty-four hour days" (which they most certainly are not), and several peeps jumped on my ass. Hmm. I wonder where they are now.

[YoungJRNY]

When in doubt, go after a grammar error. I know, God gave you special privileges and put it in your gene for you to NEVER.. EVER create an error when it came to vocabulary. So, if I were you, I'd feel pretty damn good about yourself to be spiritually blessed! Only if I believed, maybe I would have used poses instead of opposes. Damned me to hell... dude.

LOL...feelin' butt-hurt? I was just trying to help you out, so you don't look "thtoopid" later, when you're talking to somebody "IRL."

To my knowledge, it is religion who corrupted beings into taking part in suicide bombings, war and most recently and coincidentally, it was the people believing in their own god, and running our own planes into the heart of America in one of the biggest terrorist attack on America!

Atheist's do nothing but oppose the question and rebuttal to religion's answers. Atheist do nothing but ... get ready.. actually look into bringing logic to such theory's and being called dumb ass's for it just proves a point of watered down minds!

Yep. Definitely a chip on your shoulder.

What cracks me up is a couple years back I questioned the Six Days of Creation as being literal "twenty-four hour days" (which they most certainly are not), and several peeps jumped on my ass. Hmm. I wonder where they are now.

Yeah that's all fine and dandy.. but you completely over looked the facts that I presented, things that you asked and I responded with visual evidence. This is becoming a pattern. When someone doesn't like what they see, either ignore it or completely make irrational things up and put it in its place.

[verslibre]

Yeah that's all fine and dandy.. but you completely over looked the facts the I presented, things that you asked and I responded with visual evidence. This is becoming a pattern. When someone doesn't like what they see, either ignore it or completely make irrational things up and put it in its place.

Oh, sorry. You must be hormonal today. I didn't "overlook" it, I just had nothing to say. One idiot crediting (blaming, rather) God for more of Man's bullshit (or natural cycles and occurrences) doesn't register on my radar. I could care less.

It's like the 2012 paranoia that's slowly brewing. People believe what they want without doing further research. It's part and parcel of the same fast food mentality that makes the average Quentin want to shop only at box stores, buy individual downloads instead of albums, and tune in to reality TV and every new variation on Very Real Ho-Bags Of Brisco County.

I know what it's like to question things. You have a long road ahead of you. Just don't be too quick to write things off. Patience is a virtue.

[S2M]

Free Verse:

The main thing wrong with religion is the same affliction that Freud's theories suffered from: Not holding up during falsification. That is, not being able to be tested. Testibility is falsifiability. Religion has an answer for EVERYTHING. And that is it's downfall.

[YoungJRNY]

Free Verse:

The main thing wrong with religion is the same affliction that Freud's theories suffered from: Not holding up during falsification. That is, not being able to be tested. Testibility is falsifiability. Religion has an answer for EVERYTHING. And that is it's downfall.

Everything that is God of course. Even though, according to most Christians, believe there is a cause in effect for EVERYTHING, they believe those same standards doesn't withhold to their God, who says "was just there" before all of creation. One big contradiction.

[S2M]

Free Verse:

The main thing wrong with religion is the same affliction that Freud's theories suffered from: Not holding up during falsification. That is, not being able to be tested. Testibility is falsifiability. Religion has an answer for EVERYTHING. And that is it's downfall.

Everything that is God of course. Even though, according to most Christians, believe there is a cause in effect for EVERYTHING, they believe those same standards doesn't withhold to their God, who says "was just there" before all of creation. One big contradiction.

Bravo Trav....! You are touching on my favorite topic in the world: The Divine Command Theory....kudos for realizing it on your own.


The Euthyphro Dilemma
The most common argument against divine command theory is the Euthyphro dilemma. The argument gets its name from Plato’s Euthyphro dialogue, which contains the inspiration for it. The Euthyphro dilemma is introduced with the question Does God command the good because it is good, or is it good because it is commanded by God? Each of the two possibilities identified in this question are widely agreed to present intractable problems for divine command theory.

Suppose that the divine command theorist takes the first horn of the dilemma, asserting that God commands the good because it is good. If God commands the good because it is good, then he bases his decision what to command on what is already morally good. Moral goodness, then, must exist before God issues any commands, otherwise he wouldn’t command anything. If moral goodness exists before God issues any commands, though, then moral goodness is independent of God’s commands; God’s commands aren’t the source of morality, but merely a source of information about morality. Morality itself is not based in divine commands.

Suppose, then, that the divine commands theorist takes the second horn of the dilemma, asserting that the good is good because it is commanded by God. On this view, nothing is good until God commands it. This, though, raises a problem too: if nothing is good until God commands it, then what God commands is completely morally arbitrary; God has no moral reason for commanding as he does; morally speaking, he could just as well have commanded anything else. This problem is exacerbated when we consider that God, being omnipotent, could have commanded anything at all. He could, for example, have commanded polygamy, slavery, and the killing of the over-50s. If divine command theory is true, then had he done so then these things would be morally good. That doesn’t seem right, though; even if God had commanded these things they would still be morally bad. Divine command theory, then, must be false.

[Zedul]

http://www.medindia.net/news/view_news_ ... =2&x=34768

You did not comprehend a thing I said.

May I point out to you that your atheism has it's roots in Christian belief and in fact Christians were the first people to be called "atheists" in the world.

Atheism has strayed so far from the path of enlightenment that they no longer understand that they are now the problem, and that their dogmatism and their brand of control and "fundamentalism" has been far more damaging to this country in the last century than anything the evangelicals have come up with.

You have stripped the mythos and soul and heritage from the country so thoroughly that our society is eroding and we are completely lost and are setting ourselves up to be victimized by reverse colonization by more stable minded cultures - aka "Islamic", just like what is currently happening to Europe.

A society needs it's myths to stay intact in order for it to function, stripping away those myths and replacing them with nihilism, as you and your kind have done... does nothing but destroy the culture.

Now our children are gang fucking each other like animals at various parties and mainlining chemicals to give them some sense of worth, because they no longer have the hope, devotion, and belonging that comes with the wonder of mysticism.

Enlightened Christianity brought about the greatest advancement and liberties human history has ever known, and now you are willing to throw the baby out with the bath water and tear everything down that western society has built just so you can get your mad out on God. And what does that leave for those who come after us?

[verslibre]

Free Verse:

The main thing wrong with religion is the same affliction that Freud's theories suffered from: Not holding up during falsification. That is, not being able to be tested. Testibility is falsifiability. Religion has an answer for EVERYTHING. And that is it's downfall.

To me, religion is a system, a set of formalized rituals, neatly stitched together. I don't "argue religion" because I have less and less to do with it as time goes by. I merely know not all is as it has been taught through the ages — taking everything at face value, so to speak — which is what you seem to primarily have a beef with. Atheism or agnosticism isn't necessarily thinking "outside the box," it's putting the box on the uppermost shelf in the closet and closing the door — that stuff you're not sure you want to get rid of just yet, so you put it in a container and conveniently out of sight for the time being.

Emphasis on time being.

[S2M]

There would be no point in the religion if individuals felt that deciding moral righteousness was something they could or should do for themselves. The religion requires that only God can make such a distinction.

The most important, and only(might I add) thing a person needs to know about religion.....

[verslibre]

There would be no point in the religion if individuals felt that deciding moral righteousness was something they could or should do for themselves. The religion requires that only God can make such a distinction.

The most important, and only(might I add) thing a person needs to know about religion.....

That, and the unfortunate fact that absence of religion makes many individuals feel as though they're exempt from their own accountability.

[Don]

I think we have a moral compass built into us. There are so many people who don't pursue a faith but still no what's right or wrong merely by instinct.
The wonders of the universe are the chapters in my bible. I'm not smart enough to be an atheist as I have too many questions about what created what, and where did everything begin and who/what created the creator, the creator's creator and so forth. I guess I qualify as an agnostic.

[verslibre]

I think we have a moral compass built into us. There are so many people who don't pursue a faith but still no what's right or wrong merely by instinct.

There are countless defective inbuilt moral compasses out there. I wish those tools would get around to mailing their warranty cards.

[S2M]

There would be no point in the religion if individuals felt that deciding moral righteousness was something they could or should do for themselves. The religion requires that only God can make such a distinction.

The most important, and only(might I add) thing a person needs to know about religion.....

That, and the unfortunate fact that absence of religion makes many individuals feel as though they're exempt from their own accountability.

That's where a person's Locus of Control comes into effect....

Take for instance a student who is waiting for a graded exam. She finally receives her exam and sees that she received a 71. She immediately declares, 'WTF! That test was too hard. It was obviously unfair. Half those questions were asking things I hadn't even heard before!'

Summary: She has an EXTERNAL locus of control....wasn't her fault the test was too hard. She had no control over her grade.

Whereas if she had an internal locus of control, she would have said something like this: 'Yeah, a 71...I knew it was going to be something like that. I really should have studied harder. I remember the professor mentioning this stuff, i just went out to a party the night before and didn't study as much as i should have. I deserved the grade.'



And that's why I think religious types have an EXTERNAL locus of control. They look outside themselves in explaining things, and in asking for help. And as you can see from the above two examples, and ELC, or External Locus of Control, is the more illogical of the choices....

[StoneCold]

Rush - Freewill

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

NIV - Mathew

Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

[Don]

I think we have a moral compass built into us. There are so many people who don't pursue a faith but still no what's right or wrong merely by instinct.

There are countless defective inbuilt moral compasses out there. I wish those tools would get around to mailing their warranty cards.

That's the case with all working mechanisms and living organisms. The larger the number produced, the greater chance of defects. Just ask Toyota.