President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[RedWingFan]

Hopefully the big business guys who've taken so much form everyone else.

You seriously need to get over the class envy dude. You come off as a whiner. Have you made all the wisest schooling/business/financial decisions in your life? Is the position you have in life the complete responsibility of some CEO somewhere? Aren't you responsible for your life and decisions you've made?

Don't get me wrong Rick you know I like you and all. I know I've done ALOT of stuff that I wish I'd done differently. I wish I would have gotten the degree I'm working on now instead of that useless degree I completed years ago. It was my choice, now I'm in the same position a decade later. The jobs for my current degree have largely left the area if not the nation. That's my fault for not having some foresight, I'm in the process of doing something about it. If you insist on blaming someone else and wait for someone else to help you, you're in for a long wait my brutha!!!

[Rick]

Hopefully the big business guys who've taken so much form everyone else.

You seriously need to get over the class envy dude. You come off as a whiner. Have you made all the wisest schooling/business/financial decisions in your life? Is the position you have in life the complete responsibility of some CEO somewhere? Aren't you responsible for your life and decisions you've made?

Don't get me wrong Rick you know I like you and all. I know I've done ALOT of stuff that I wish I'd done differently. I wish I would have gotten the degree I'm working on now instead of that useless degree I completed years ago. It was my choice, now I'm in the same position a decade later. The jobs for my current degree have largely left the area if not the nation. That's my fault for not having some foresight, I'm in the process of doing something about it. If you insist on blaming someone else and wait for someone else to help you, you're in for a long wait my brutha!!!

No, but if you can't see this country heading the way of every other country in the world, then you need to look harder. It'll be a two class system if something doesn't change. It'll be the wealthy and the dirt poor. It's not class envy, it's the fact that people can not live on a wage earned by a job they could live on just 20 years ago. It's that the top brass of corporations are taking it all from the working class. It's in every big company. The top 5 at American Airlines earned 50.5 million between themselves in the last 10 years, while my pay has done nothing but go down. Just to give you a reference, the CEO only made 10x my pay when I hired on. So yeah, as a working class person, I'm going to be vocal about it. I CAN speak up when it's my pockets the money is coming out of. Just like you have the right to speak up about being taxed more or whatever. It's all good.

I've got no beef with you either brother. We're just discussing stuff here. Cheers bro.

[hoagiepete]

PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail
JCT Confirms Failure to Comply with Democrats’ Mandate Can Lead to 5 Years in Jail
Friday, November 06, 2009


Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

It's the same with car insurance. Does that bother you?

that is apples and oranges. Only auto insurance requirement is liability.... for when YOU hurt SOMEONE ELSE.

[Rick]

PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail
JCT Confirms Failure to Comply with Democrats’ Mandate Can Lead to 5 Years in Jail
Friday, November 06, 2009


Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

It's the same with car insurance. Does that bother you?

that is apples and oranges. Only auto insurance requirement is liability.... for when YOU hurt SOMEONE ELSE.

Well it's a fruit salad. There are pros to both. Just think of how much taxpayer money is dealt out each year in free medical services. It's an amazing amount.

[Lula]

Well it's a fruit salad. There are pros to both. Just think of how much taxpayer money is dealt out each year in free medical services. It's an amazing amount.

and let us not forget the americans who die each year because of a lack of health care. the republicans boehner and that whacko michelle baucus are out there spouting all sorts of falsehoods. it is a sad day when we can't all see the need to reform an ineffective system and support our fellow citizens.

the republicans have not introduced any real option. they are in the same sinking boat the dems were in 9 years ago- out of ideas and just criticizing the ones on the table.

[Ehwmatt]

Well it's a fruit salad. There are pros to both. Just think of how much taxpayer money is dealt out each year in free medical services. It's an amazing amount.

and let us not forget the americans who die each year because of a lack of health care. the republicans boehner and that whacko michelle baucus are out there spouting all sorts of falsehoods. it is a sad day when we can't all see the need to reform an ineffective system and support our fellow citizens.

the republicans have not introduced any real option. they are in the same sinking boat the dems were in 9 years ago- out of ideas and just criticizing the ones on the table.

I haven't been following what they are saying in specific, but the general public is NOT for this kind of reform. The general public realizes that every action has consequences. The rationing of care that will go on under any kind of reform resembling what Dems want is the consequence that many Americans realize will flow from a reform that seems so humanitarian and feel-good on the surface. For every person (many illegals) who is helped, several more are going to be hurt. When it comes to secondary/specialty care, emergency or otherwise, I imagine only the richest of rich will be able to get it in a timely fashion. That's far worse than what we've got now.

That is the real problem and I think a lot of people realize that.

Even some of the people my age I know who voted for Obama think the whole health care thing is "a bit too much," in the words of someone I caught up with yesterday. Then there are of course some people who want it that I know. But, the point is, Dems want to paint it like it's a vocal right-wing minority against it... it's simply not.

[Ehwmatt]

Hopefully the big business guys who've taken so much form everyone else.

You seriously need to get over the class envy dude. You come off as a whiner. Have you made all the wisest schooling/business/financial decisions in your life? Is the position you have in life the complete responsibility of some CEO somewhere? Aren't you responsible for your life and decisions you've made?

Don't get me wrong Rick you know I like you and all. I know I've done ALOT of stuff that I wish I'd done differently. I wish I would have gotten the degree I'm working on now instead of that useless degree I completed years ago. It was my choice, now I'm in the same position a decade later. The jobs for my current degree have largely left the area if not the nation. That's my fault for not having some foresight, I'm in the process of doing something about it. If you insist on blaming someone else and wait for someone else to help you, you're in for a long wait my brutha!!!

No, but if you can't see this country heading the way of every other country in the world, then you need to look harder. It'll be a two class system if something doesn't change. It'll be the wealthy and the dirt poor. It's not class envy, it's the fact that people can not live on a wage earned by a job they could live on just 20 years ago. It's that the top brass of corporations are taking it all from the working class. It's in every big company. The top 5 at American Airlines earned 50.5 million between themselves in the last 10 years, while my pay has done nothing but go down. Just to give you a reference, the CEO only made 10x my pay when I hired on. So yeah, as a working class person, I'm going to be vocal about it. I CAN speak up when it's my pockets the money is coming out of. Just like you have the right to speak up about being taxed more or whatever. It's all good.

I've got no beef with you either brother. We're just discussing stuff here. Cheers bro.

Rick, that's garbage. The poor here live like kings compared to the poor of many other countries. This has never been a one class society. It was never intended to be and for the sake of us all, I hope it never will be.

There have been scumbag executives that have driven companies into the ground and taken handsome buyouts just before the company has gone under, fucking the employees. I won't deny that and the outrage is totally justified there. However, the cancerous mentality demonizing "the big guy" that you're espousing above is the biggest problem.

However, the VAST majority of business owners and executives, small and large, are hard working, honest people. It's not to say the "little guys" aren't, but at most companies, your average hourly employee clocks in at 8:30 or 9 and leaves by 5, 5:30 at the latest M-F and washes his hands of work before and after going there for the day. The executive not only has to run the business and make tough decision after tough decision, but has to attend dinners, functions, always be "on call" on the weekends and other off times, brings work home, goes to the office on the weekends when no one else is down there, and basically eats, breathes, and dreams about the company. Add in the extra pressure of Sarbanes-Oxley and the fact that executives are criminally liable for misfeasance that goes on under their watch (that they likely have no idea about), and you have a job only a few are suited to handle. Oh, did I mention most executives are extremely talented and smart people?

The problem is the class mentality and the demonization of success that is seeping into many's mentality. A guy drives a Lexus? Geez, he must be a bad guy or a scumbag. A guy buys a nice house? What an asshole, I wonder who he screwed to afford that. Hell, I'm 23 years old and I've got friends that think I'm a dick because I set aside a little bit of money the last four years working summers as a college kid to buy a really nice guitar while they blew it all on booze! The executives who have taken advantage of the system are the origin of this thinking to be sure, but liberals like Michael Moore and many sitting members of Congress and the current buffoon in chief have taken it to dangerous levels.

Take the Orlando office shooting, that guy's been stewing in his juices for two years and getting angry. You think the current mentality didn't eventually lead him to snap or at least keep his thoughts alive? Yes, he was obviously troubled and he might have done it anyway, but trust me, I have family members who are small business owners on both sides of my family. They have been threatened by former employees and even just outsiders who don't like their business.

It's a nasty combination of two cultures: The culture of envy and the culture of non-accountability. I already explained the envy part a bit. The non-accountability stems from people not willing to accept the consequences for their own actions - go to college on a scholarship and piss around and lose it on account of failing grades, drop out of high school, show up hungover and late at work after working through college to get a solid job... I know young people who have done all this and the common link is they don't accept any accountability for their current situations. Why? Because they've been taught that it's always someone else's fault. It has to stop.

That's not to say that people don't get unfairly shit on, but hey, that's life. Not everybody's gonna have the same shit. I don't know of any political solution that would accomplish that other than robbing the rich. Oh wait, they are already trying to do that

[Lula]

i disagree. i think the majority of the public is in support of the reform. it is not perfect- i'd go all the way and have a single payer, but that is me. there is already rationing of care- the insurance companies are the the bureaucracy that take our money in premiums and decide what care we can receive under the plan. the idea of not getting health insurance because of a preexisting condition is absurd. each year the cost goes up while the care goes down, does not make sense. as those of us fortunate enough to have employer provided plans are perusing open enrollment, i see one consistency- an increase in cost and decrease in services. i pay just under 10,000 a year to cover me and my toddler.

[Ehwmatt]

i disagree. i think the majority of the public is in support of the reform. it is not perfect- i'd go all the way and have a single payer, but that is me. there is already rationing of care- the insurance companies are the the bureaucracy that take our money in premiums and decide what care we can receive under the plan. the idea of not getting health insurance because of a preexisting condition is absurd. each year the cost goes up while the care goes down, does not make sense. as those of us fortunate enough to have employer provided plans are perusing open enrollment, i see one consistency- an increase in cost and decrease in services. i pay just under 10,000 a year to cover me and my toddler.

Of course there's rationing of care, there is rationing of every good.

Economics is based on the allocation of scarce resources, remember that one?

It just blows my mind that you liberals can sit here with a straight face and call insurance companies a bureaucracy out of one side of your mouth while wanting to hand the reins over to a sprawling, bloated government bureaucracy that has already proven it can't administer care for the old and for the impoverished with any manner of efficiency.

[Ehwmatt]

Lula, you honestly think the government won't be telling you when and where to receive care if they went all the way and did a single payer? Something has to give, doesn't it? Especially with the influx of this alleged "48 million" coming into the system all of a sudden.

[donnaplease]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all for the health care package. I just get tired of the constant, and I mean constant bashing of Obama. He was handed a bucket of shit and is now expected to make roses out of it. It's going to take time to fix the problems that Bush left him.

OK, I've got to address this one. First off, Rick, where were you when all the constant Bush bashing was going on? Oh, I remember, right smack dab in the middle of it! Come on, dude, you can dish it out but you can't take it?

Now, another thing I want to comment on is the 'bucket of shit' statement. Let's go back to the same time in Bush's first term of office to the bucket of shit he was dealing with. Over 3000 dead, the worst terrorist attack to ever hit American soil, and our nation grieving over what the future would be like. He handled that with as much dignity and class as I feel one could, given the circumstances. He certainly didn't sit around blaming someone else for the situation he found himself in (granted, I know there is a lot of blame pushed over onto Clinton for 9/11, but I don't think Bush ever said that and we didn't see him on the TV every other day whining about it). And furthermore, as for this 'bucket of shit', let's not forget that our congress was led by Democrats, not Republicans, for the final 2 years of Bush's term, and IMO they did more than their fair share of defecating in that bucket.

I'm no politician or economist, and I certainly don't have a crystal ball, but to try to put blame on any one person/group for the 'bucket of shit' is just, well... shit.

Now... you have a Democratic/liberal president and a congress who is run by the same, both of which have publicly stated that since they are the majority they will have it their way. When things continue to fail, as we all know they will, there will be only one place to look. And it sure as hell isn't Crawford, Texas.

[Rick]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all for the health care package. I just get tired of the constant, and I mean constant bashing of Obama. He was handed a bucket of shit and is now expected to make roses out of it. It's going to take time to fix the problems that Bush left him.

OK, I've got to address this one. First off, Rick, where were you when all the constant Bush bashing was going on? Oh, I remember, right smack dab in the middle of it! Come on, dude, you can dish it out but you can't take it?

Now, another thing I want to comment on is the 'bucket of shit' statement. Let's go back to the same time in Bush's first term of office to the bucket of shit he was dealing with. Over 3000 dead, the worst terrorist attack to ever hit American soil, and our nation grieving over what the future would be like. He handled that with as much dignity and class as I feel one could, given the circumstances. He certainly didn't sit around blaming someone else for the situation he found himself in (granted, I know there is a lot of blame pushed over onto Clinton for 9/11, but I don't think Bush ever said that and we didn't see him on the TV every other day whining about it). And furthermore, as for this 'bucket of shit', let's not forget that our congress was led by Democrats, not Republicans, for the final 2 years of Bush's term, and IMO they did more than their fair share of defecating in that bucket.

I'm no politician or economist, and I certainly don't have a crystal ball, but to try to put blame on any one person/group for the 'bucket of shit' is just, well... shit.

Now... you have a Democratic/liberal president and a congress who is run by the same, both of which have publicly stated that since they are the majority they will have it their way. When things continue to fail, as we all know they will, there will be only one place to look. And it sure as hell isn't Crawford, Texas.

Bullshit. I didn't create post after post after post of copy and paste, left winged propaganda, every damn day. It's the rights mission to see Obama fail. It's disgusting. I never wanted Bush to fail, he did that all on his own.

[donnaplease]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all for the health care package. I just get tired of the constant, and I mean constant bashing of Obama. He was handed a bucket of shit and is now expected to make roses out of it. It's going to take time to fix the problems that Bush left him.

OK, I've got to address this one. First off, Rick, where were you when all the constant Bush bashing was going on? Oh, I remember, right smack dab in the middle of it! Come on, dude, you can dish it out but you can't take it?

Now, another thing I want to comment on is the 'bucket of shit' statement. Let's go back to the same time in Bush's first term of office to the bucket of shit he was dealing with. Over 3000 dead, the worst terrorist attack to ever hit American soil, and our nation grieving over what the future would be like. He handled that with as much dignity and class as I feel one could, given the circumstances. He certainly didn't sit around blaming someone else for the situation he found himself in (granted, I know there is a lot of blame pushed over onto Clinton for 9/11, but I don't think Bush ever said that and we didn't see him on the TV every other day whining about it). And furthermore, as for this 'bucket of shit', let's not forget that our congress was led by Democrats, not Republicans, for the final 2 years of Bush's term, and IMO they did more than their fair share of defecating in that bucket.

I'm no politician or economist, and I certainly don't have a crystal ball, but to try to put blame on any one person/group for the 'bucket of shit' is just, well... shit.

Now... you have a Democratic/liberal president and a congress who is run by the same, both of which have publicly stated that since they are the majority they will have it their way. When things continue to fail, as we all know they will, there will be only one place to look. And it sure as hell isn't Crawford, Texas.

Bullshit. I didn't create post after post after post of copy and paste, left winged propaganda, every damn day. It's the rights mission to see Obama fail. It's disgusting. I never wanted Bush to fail, he did that all on his own.

So you're saying you didn't bash Bush???

[Rick]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all for the health care package. I just get tired of the constant, and I mean constant bashing of Obama. He was handed a bucket of shit and is now expected to make roses out of it. It's going to take time to fix the problems that Bush left him.

OK, I've got to address this one. First off, Rick, where were you when all the constant Bush bashing was going on? Oh, I remember, right smack dab in the middle of it! Come on, dude, you can dish it out but you can't take it?

Now, another thing I want to comment on is the 'bucket of shit' statement. Let's go back to the same time in Bush's first term of office to the bucket of shit he was dealing with. Over 3000 dead, the worst terrorist attack to ever hit American soil, and our nation grieving over what the future would be like. He handled that with as much dignity and class as I feel one could, given the circumstances. He certainly didn't sit around blaming someone else for the situation he found himself in (granted, I know there is a lot of blame pushed over onto Clinton for 9/11, but I don't think Bush ever said that and we didn't see him on the TV every other day whining about it). And furthermore, as for this 'bucket of shit', let's not forget that our congress was led by Democrats, not Republicans, for the final 2 years of Bush's term, and IMO they did more than their fair share of defecating in that bucket.

I'm no politician or economist, and I certainly don't have a crystal ball, but to try to put blame on any one person/group for the 'bucket of shit' is just, well... shit.

Now... you have a Democratic/liberal president and a congress who is run by the same, both of which have publicly stated that since they are the majority they will have it their way. When things continue to fail, as we all know they will, there will be only one place to look. And it sure as hell isn't Crawford, Texas.

Bullshit. I didn't create post after post after post of copy and paste, left winged propaganda, every damn day. It's the rights mission to see Obama fail. It's disgusting. I never wanted Bush to fail, he did that all on his own.

So you're saying you didn't bash Bush???

I'm not saying that, I certainly did. But it didn't start with his first day in office, like it did with Obama.

[Behshad]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all for the health care package. I just get tired of the constant, and I mean constant bashing of Obama. He was handed a bucket of shit and is now expected to make roses out of it. It's going to take time to fix the problems that Bush left him.

OK, I've got to address this one. First off, Rick, where were you when all the constant Bush bashing was going on? Oh, I remember, right smack dab in the middle of it! Come on, dude, you can dish it out but you can't take it?

Now, another thing I want to comment on is the 'bucket of shit' statement. Let's go back to the same time in Bush's first term of office to the bucket of shit he was dealing with. Over 3000 dead, the worst terrorist attack to ever hit American soil, and our nation grieving over what the future would be like. He handled that with as much dignity and class as I feel one could, given the circumstances. He certainly didn't sit around blaming someone else for the situation he found himself in (granted, I know there is a lot of blame pushed over onto Clinton for 9/11, but I don't think Bush ever said that and we didn't see him on the TV every other day whining about it). And furthermore, as for this 'bucket of shit', let's not forget that our congress was led by Democrats, not Republicans, for the final 2 years of Bush's term, and IMO they did more than their fair share of defecating in that bucket.

I'm no politician or economist, and I certainly don't have a crystal ball, but to try to put blame on any one person/group for the 'bucket of shit' is just, well... shit.

Now... you have a Democratic/liberal president and a congress who is run by the same, both of which have publicly stated that since they are the majority they will have it their way. When things continue to fail, as we all know they will, there will be only one place to look. And it sure as hell isn't Crawford, Texas.

Bullshit. I didn't create post after post after post of copy and paste, left winged propaganda, every damn day. It's the rights mission to see Obama fail. It's disgusting. I never wanted Bush to fail, he did that all on his own.

So you're saying you didn't bash Bush???

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

[Rick]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all for the health care package. I just get tired of the constant, and I mean constant bashing of Obama. He was handed a bucket of shit and is now expected to make roses out of it. It's going to take time to fix the problems that Bush left him.

OK, I've got to address this one. First off, Rick, where were you when all the constant Bush bashing was going on? Oh, I remember, right smack dab in the middle of it! Come on, dude, you can dish it out but you can't take it?

Now, another thing I want to comment on is the 'bucket of shit' statement. Let's go back to the same time in Bush's first term of office to the bucket of shit he was dealing with. Over 3000 dead, the worst terrorist attack to ever hit American soil, and our nation grieving over what the future would be like. He handled that with as much dignity and class as I feel one could, given the circumstances. He certainly didn't sit around blaming someone else for the situation he found himself in (granted, I know there is a lot of blame pushed over onto Clinton for 9/11, but I don't think Bush ever said that and we didn't see him on the TV every other day whining about it). And furthermore, as for this 'bucket of shit', let's not forget that our congress was led by Democrats, not Republicans, for the final 2 years of Bush's term, and IMO they did more than their fair share of defecating in that bucket.

I'm no politician or economist, and I certainly don't have a crystal ball, but to try to put blame on any one person/group for the 'bucket of shit' is just, well... shit.

Now... you have a Democratic/liberal president and a congress who is run by the same, both of which have publicly stated that since they are the majority they will have it their way. When things continue to fail, as we all know they will, there will be only one place to look. And it sure as hell isn't Crawford, Texas.

Bullshit. I didn't create post after post after post of copy and paste, left winged propaganda, every damn day. It's the rights mission to see Obama fail. It's disgusting. I never wanted Bush to fail, he did that all on his own.

So you're saying you didn't bash Bush???

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Nice tele!

[artist4perry]

To wish a sitting President to fail is to doom our country to fail..........having that said...........I still feel he can be misguided, and I can disagree with his choice of actions no matter how well meaning. There needs to be reform of health care.....but no rush to do it......the rush will inevitably fail. Too many people are greedily looking to profit from this already. And I wonder if it will not be the financial ruin of this country. How can we afford it when we are already bankrupt?

Jobs are being lost every day. And people we bailed out are back with their hands extended for more, with little to no showing of how the money even helped at all.

Throwing dollar bills at a problem is not the solution. This needs to be carefully weighed in the ballance.

[donnaplease]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all for the health care package. I just get tired of the constant, and I mean constant bashing of Obama. He was handed a bucket of shit and is now expected to make roses out of it. It's going to take time to fix the problems that Bush left him.

OK, I've got to address this one. First off, Rick, where were you when all the constant Bush bashing was going on? Oh, I remember, right smack dab in the middle of it! Come on, dude, you can dish it out but you can't take it?

Now, another thing I want to comment on is the 'bucket of shit' statement. Let's go back to the same time in Bush's first term of office to the bucket of shit he was dealing with. Over 3000 dead, the worst terrorist attack to ever hit American soil, and our nation grieving over what the future would be like. He handled that with as much dignity and class as I feel one could, given the circumstances. He certainly didn't sit around blaming someone else for the situation he found himself in (granted, I know there is a lot of blame pushed over onto Clinton for 9/11, but I don't think Bush ever said that and we didn't see him on the TV every other day whining about it). And furthermore, as for this 'bucket of shit', let's not forget that our congress was led by Democrats, not Republicans, for the final 2 years of Bush's term, and IMO they did more than their fair share of defecating in that bucket.

I'm no politician or economist, and I certainly don't have a crystal ball, but to try to put blame on any one person/group for the 'bucket of shit' is just, well... shit.

Now... you have a Democratic/liberal president and a congress who is run by the same, both of which have publicly stated that since they are the majority they will have it their way. When things continue to fail, as we all know they will, there will be only one place to look. And it sure as hell isn't Crawford, Texas.

Bullshit. I didn't create post after post after post of copy and paste, left winged propaganda, every damn day. It's the rights mission to see Obama fail. It's disgusting. I never wanted Bush to fail, he did that all on his own.

So you're saying you didn't bash Bush???

I'm not saying that, I certainly did. But it didn't start with his first day in office, like it did with Obama.

Maybe it's because they had 8 years to learn how to bash from the opposite end of the spectrum. Just sayin'...

I believe the President (whoever it is) should be granted a certain amount of respect from the citizens of this country. I have said that on numerous occasions here in the past when W was being butchered, and still believe it to be the case. It sickens me that we treat our own so poorly. How are other countries going to respect us if we don't respect ourselves? Now, that being said, it isn't a one-way street. If Obama is gonna continue this whole "I inherited a bucket of shit" stance, then as I see it, he's part of the problem and not part of the solution. Instead of media blitzes and apology tours, roll up your damned sleeves and get to work! I want him to prove me wrong. Unfortunately I don't believe I'm gonna see that.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and therein lies the rub. The outright arrogance that we're seeing in Washington now, though, is just begging for opposition (just as I'm sure many thought the 'swagger' of the previous administration did the same). Times are uncertain, and the decay in our culture is scary. In reality, Rick, I think all of this is "propaganda". All of Dean's and TNC's comments (which have been very controversial at times), people calling our president a murderer, and other statements we read here (on both sides) and elsewhere are meant to evoke some kind of passion for or against a topic or person.

Frankly, I'm tired of all the bashing (on both sides).

[Ehwmatt]

Give Obama 8 years, it'll be a disaster, can they still blame Bush? That's what I want to find out (plus I want this country to learn a hard, hard lesson to not elect this kind of man ever again)

[donnaplease]

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Behshad, it hasn't been only in the past year of his presidency. Come on dude, you know better than that.
I can't speak to whether FF wished BO to fail or not. I don't recall that, but can't prove otherwise. But... conceding that is true, what is worse - saying "I hope Obama fails" or saying "George Bush is a murderer". For starters, one is a personal opinion, and the other is slander. We can all take words written or said and perceive them in many different ways. For example, people on the left were outraged at Rush's statement that he hoped Obama would fail. Then, on the other end of it, we had folks on the right furious that Obama would seemingly call Sarah Palin a pig after the 'lipstick on a pig' and 'soccer mom/lipstick' comments came so closely together. Both parties said "oh, that's not what I meant" but we're gonna interpret them exactly the way WE want to, regardless of what attempts to spin them are out there.

OK, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that we live in a nasty, argumentative society. And if you don't agree with me, I think you're an asshole!!!
(that was a feeble attempt at humor in case you didn't get it... )

[Rick]

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Behshad, it hasn't been only in the past year of his presidency. Come on dude, you know better than that.
I can't speak to whether FF wished BO to fail or not. I don't recall that, but can't prove otherwise. But... conceding that is true, what is worse - saying "I hope Obama fails" or saying "George Bush is a murderer". For starters, one is a personal opinion, and the other is slander. We can all take words written or said and perceive them in many different ways. For example, people on the left were outraged at Rush's statement that he hoped Obama would fail. Then, on the other end of it, we had folks on the right furious that Obama would seemingly call Sarah Palin a pig after the 'lipstick on a pig' and 'soccer mom/lipstick' comments came so closely together. Both parties said "oh, that's not what I meant" but we're gonna interpret them exactly the way WE want to, regardless of what attempts to spin them are out there.

OK, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that we live in a nasty, argumentative society. And if you don't agree with me, I think you're an asshole!!!
(that was a feeble attempt at humor in case you didn't get it... )

[donnaplease]

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Behshad, it hasn't been only in the past year of his presidency. Come on dude, you know better than that.
I can't speak to whether FF wished BO to fail or not. I don't recall that, but can't prove otherwise. But... conceding that is true, what is worse - saying "I hope Obama fails" or saying "George Bush is a murderer". For starters, one is a personal opinion, and the other is slander. We can all take words written or said and perceive them in many different ways. For example, people on the left were outraged at Rush's statement that he hoped Obama would fail. Then, on the other end of it, we had folks on the right furious that Obama would seemingly call Sarah Palin a pig after the 'lipstick on a pig' and 'soccer mom/lipstick' comments came so closely together. Both parties said "oh, that's not what I meant" but we're gonna interpret them exactly the way WE want to, regardless of what attempts to spin them are out there.

OK, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that we live in a nasty, argumentative society. And if you don't agree with me, I think you're an asshole!!!
(that was a feeble attempt at humor in case you didn't get it... )

Hey, it worked! Yay, me!!!

[Rick]

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Behshad, it hasn't been only in the past year of his presidency. Come on dude, you know better than that.
I can't speak to whether FF wished BO to fail or not. I don't recall that, but can't prove otherwise. But... conceding that is true, what is worse - saying "I hope Obama fails" or saying "George Bush is a murderer". For starters, one is a personal opinion, and the other is slander. We can all take words written or said and perceive them in many different ways. For example, people on the left were outraged at Rush's statement that he hoped Obama would fail. Then, on the other end of it, we had folks on the right furious that Obama would seemingly call Sarah Palin a pig after the 'lipstick on a pig' and 'soccer mom/lipstick' comments came so closely together. Both parties said "oh, that's not what I meant" but we're gonna interpret them exactly the way WE want to, regardless of what attempts to spin them are out there.

OK, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that we live in a nasty, argumentative society. And if you don't agree with me, I think you're an asshole!!!
(that was a feeble attempt at humor in case you didn't get it... )

Hey, it worked! Yay, me!!!

I love all of you guys. We don't have to agree on everything.

[artist4perry]

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Behshad, it hasn't been only in the past year of his presidency. Come on dude, you know better than that.
I can't speak to whether FF wished BO to fail or not. I don't recall that, but can't prove otherwise. But... conceding that is true, what is worse - saying "I hope Obama fails" or saying "George Bush is a murderer". For starters, one is a personal opinion, and the other is slander. We can all take words written or said and perceive them in many different ways. For example, people on the left were outraged at Rush's statement that he hoped Obama would fail. Then, on the other end of it, we had folks on the right furious that Obama would seemingly call Sarah Palin a pig after the 'lipstick on a pig' and 'soccer mom/lipstick' comments came so closely together. Both parties said "oh, that's not what I meant" but we're gonna interpret them exactly the way WE want to, regardless of what attempts to spin them are out there.

OK, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that we live in a nasty, argumentative society. And if you don't agree with me, I think you're an asshole!!!
(that was a feeble attempt at humor in case you didn't get it... )

Hey, it worked! Yay, me!!!

I love all of you guys. We don't have to agree on everything.

Wisest words in here!

[Behshad]

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Behshad, it hasn't been only in the past year of his presidency. Come on dude, you know better than that.
I can't speak to whether FF wished BO to fail or not. I don't recall that, but can't prove otherwise. But... conceding that is true, what is worse - saying "I hope Obama fails" or saying "George Bush is a murderer". For starters, one is a personal opinion, and the other is slander. We can all take words written or said and perceive them in many different ways. For example, people on the left were outraged at Rush's statement that he hoped Obama would fail. Then, on the other end of it, we had folks on the right furious that Obama would seemingly call Sarah Palin a pig after the 'lipstick on a pig' and 'soccer mom/lipstick' comments came so closely together. Both parties said "oh, that's not what I meant" but we're gonna interpret them exactly the way WE want to, regardless of what attempts to spin them are out there.

OK, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that we live in a nasty, argumentative society. And if you don't agree with me, I think you're an asshole!!!
(that was a feeble attempt at humor in case you didn't get it... )

Hey, it worked! Yay, me!!!

I love all of you guys. We don't have to agree on everything.

Fuck you!

[artist4perry]

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Behshad, it hasn't been only in the past year of his presidency. Come on dude, you know better than that.
I can't speak to whether FF wished BO to fail or not. I don't recall that, but can't prove otherwise. But... conceding that is true, what is worse - saying "I hope Obama fails" or saying "George Bush is a murderer". For starters, one is a personal opinion, and the other is slander. We can all take words written or said and perceive them in many different ways. For example, people on the left were outraged at Rush's statement that he hoped Obama would fail. Then, on the other end of it, we had folks on the right furious that Obama would seemingly call Sarah Palin a pig after the 'lipstick on a pig' and 'soccer mom/lipstick' comments came so closely together. Both parties said "oh, that's not what I meant" but we're gonna interpret them exactly the way WE want to, regardless of what attempts to spin them are out there.

OK, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that we live in a nasty, argumentative society. And if you don't agree with me, I think you're an asshole!!!
(that was a feeble attempt at humor in case you didn't get it... )

Hey, it worked! Yay, me!!!

I love all of you guys. We don't have to agree on everything.

Fuck you!

instigator...............

[Behshad]

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Behshad, it hasn't been only in the past year of his presidency. Come on dude, you know better than that.
I can't speak to whether FF wished BO to fail or not. I don't recall that, but can't prove otherwise. But... conceding that is true, what is worse - saying "I hope Obama fails" or saying "George Bush is a murderer". For starters, one is a personal opinion, and the other is slander. We can all take words written or said and perceive them in many different ways. For example, people on the left were outraged at Rush's statement that he hoped Obama would fail. Then, on the other end of it, we had folks on the right furious that Obama would seemingly call Sarah Palin a pig after the 'lipstick on a pig' and 'soccer mom/lipstick' comments came so closely together. Both parties said "oh, that's not what I meant" but we're gonna interpret them exactly the way WE want to, regardless of what attempts to spin them are out there.

OK, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that we live in a nasty, argumentative society. And if you don't agree with me, I think you're an asshole!!!
(that was a feeble attempt at humor in case you didn't get it... )

Hey, it worked! Yay, me!!!

I love all of you guys. We don't have to agree on everything.

Fuck you!

instigator...............

You dont have to agree with me, so fuck you too

[Rick]

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Behshad, it hasn't been only in the past year of his presidency. Come on dude, you know better than that.
I can't speak to whether FF wished BO to fail or not. I don't recall that, but can't prove otherwise. But... conceding that is true, what is worse - saying "I hope Obama fails" or saying "George Bush is a murderer". For starters, one is a personal opinion, and the other is slander. We can all take words written or said and perceive them in many different ways. For example, people on the left were outraged at Rush's statement that he hoped Obama would fail. Then, on the other end of it, we had folks on the right furious that Obama would seemingly call Sarah Palin a pig after the 'lipstick on a pig' and 'soccer mom/lipstick' comments came so closely together. Both parties said "oh, that's not what I meant" but we're gonna interpret them exactly the way WE want to, regardless of what attempts to spin them are out there.

OK, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that we live in a nasty, argumentative society. And if you don't agree with me, I think you're an asshole!!!
(that was a feeble attempt at humor in case you didn't get it... )

Hey, it worked! Yay, me!!!

I love all of you guys. We don't have to agree on everything.

Fuck you!

[artist4perry]

Rick is right..... there is a difference in bashing Bush after 7 years in office for all the mistakes he made, than critisizing a President that has been in the office for 9 months , and WISHING him to fail..... In case of FF, he has wished Obama to fail BEFORE he was in the office !!!

I have bashed Bush many times, and rightfully so,,,, but never wished him to fail,,,

Behshad, it hasn't been only in the past year of his presidency. Come on dude, you know better than that.
I can't speak to whether FF wished BO to fail or not. I don't recall that, but can't prove otherwise. But... conceding that is true, what is worse - saying "I hope Obama fails" or saying "George Bush is a murderer". For starters, one is a personal opinion, and the other is slander. We can all take words written or said and perceive them in many different ways. For example, people on the left were outraged at Rush's statement that he hoped Obama would fail. Then, on the other end of it, we had folks on the right furious that Obama would seemingly call Sarah Palin a pig after the 'lipstick on a pig' and 'soccer mom/lipstick' comments came so closely together. Both parties said "oh, that's not what I meant" but we're gonna interpret them exactly the way WE want to, regardless of what attempts to spin them are out there.

OK, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that we live in a nasty, argumentative society. And if you don't agree with me, I think you're an asshole!!!
(that was a feeble attempt at humor in case you didn't get it... )

Hey, it worked! Yay, me!!!

I love all of you guys. We don't have to agree on everything.

Fuck you!

instigator...............

You dont have to agree with me, so fuck you too

You should be so lucky..........

[Lula]

To wish a sitting President to fail is to doom our country to fail..........having that said...........I still feel he can be misguided, and I can disagree with his choice of actions no matter how well meaning. There needs to be reform of health care.....but no rush to do it......the rush will inevitably fail. Too many people are greedily looking to profit from this already. And I wonder if it will not be the financial ruin of this country. How can we afford it when we are already bankrupt?

Jobs are being lost every day. And people we bailed out are back with their hands extended for more, with little to no showing of how the money even helped at all.

Throwing dollar bills at a problem is not the solution. This needs to be carefully weighed in the ballance.

who? profit how?

some have been trying to reform the system for decades. ted kennedy made it his life's purpose. it really is time and at this point i hardly think it is being rushed through. the dems have had a call out across the aisle, but it seems there is not suggestions/input to create, but rather to stifle, or as the signs indicate- "kill the bill."

enough is enough and i say it is way overdue.