Transsexual Jesus

[bluejeangirl76]

That, and the unfortunate fact that absence of religion makes many individuals feel as though they're exempt from their own accountability.

Total and Utter Bullshit. You obviously don't know any atheists. Atheists recognise that they, and they alone, are responsible for the consequences of their actions. I don't know a single atheist who believes they are exempt from their own accountability. .

Absence of religion is just that. Absence of religion. Nothing more or less. I have never met an atheist or agnostic who believes that not participating in a religion means that they are free to wander about and do as they please because they're free from responsibility or accountability. That's one of the dumbest things I've heard all week and it's only Monday.

I think that it is the presence of religion , not the absence, that makes (some, not all, calm down!) people feel as though they're exempt from their own accountability. How's that grab ya. It's real easy to do something or not do something and the only reason you can give is that god or the church says it's right or wrong. It's a lot harder to think for oneself and do something because you believe it's right, say no to something because you believe it's wrong, and not lay the reason for those beliefs at god's door.

Abortion is wrong, homosexuality is wrong, ....

Why?

The church/bible says so.

But what do YOU believe.

I believe in the church/bible. Gos says those things are wrong.

But what do YOU say. Ok nevermind that. How about the pro-lifers that are running around killing doctors. A life is a life. What about that?

They're doing god's work (yes I HAVE heard that! I realze it's an extreme, but still!!)

*facepalm*

They never have an answer that doesn't circle back to what a book or a sermon told them.
Never. I've argued this with people and it's the same every time.

This is also not to say that this is always the case. I would venture that most modern people do not uphold everything just because a book tells them to, and do think on their own. I was raised Catholic and I've said for years that nothing with turn you from Catholicism more than being raised one, especially with the way the church is today. I drifted away from religion, my sister drifted away from Catholicism and is now Lutheran. She calls it "Catholic Lite". (Same great god, less eternal hellfire filling.) YET, she and I are very very much alike in our moral beliefs, political beliefs, family beliefs (does that fall under moral?). It's the person not the religion (or lack of). If it comes down to the religion dicating you and not you dicating your beliefs, then you know what? You're doin' it wrong.

That was deep and looooooonnngg!!

THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!

[StevePerryHair]

That, and the unfortunate fact that absence of religion makes many individuals feel as though they're exempt from their own accountability.

Total and Utter Bullshit. You obviously don't know any atheists. Atheists recognise that they, and they alone, are responsible for the consequences of their actions. I don't know a single atheist who believes they are exempt from their own accountability. .

Absence of religion is just that. Absence of religion. Nothing more or less. I have never met an atheist or agnostic who believes that not participating in a religion means that they are free to wander about and do as they please because they're free from responsibility or accountability. That's one of the dumbest things I've heard all week and it's only Monday.

I think that it is the presence of religion , not the absence, that makes (some, not all, calm down!) people feel as though they're exempt from their own accountability. How's that grab ya. It's real easy to do something or not do something and the only reason you can give is that god or the church says it's right or wrong. It's a lot harder to think for oneself and do something because you believe it's right, say no to something because you believe it's wrong, and not lay the reason for those beliefs at god's door.

Abortion is wrong, homosexuality is wrong, ....

Why?

The church/bible says so.

But what do YOU believe.

I believe in the church/bible. Gos says those things are wrong.

But what do YOU say. Ok nevermind that. How about the pro-lifers that are running around killing doctors. A life is a life. What about that?

They're doing god's work (yes I HAVE heard that! I realze it's an extreme, but still!!)

*facepalm*

They never have an answer that doesn't circle back to what a book or a sermon told them.
Never. I've argued this with people and it's the same every time.

This is also not to say that this is always the case. I would venture that most modern people do not uphold everything just because a book tells them to, and do think on their own. I was raised Catholic and I've said for years that nothing with turn you from Catholicism more than being raised one, especially with the way the church is today. I drifted away from religion, my sister drifted away from Catholicism and is now Lutheran. She calls it "Catholic Lite". (Same great god, less eternal hellfire filling.) YET, she and I are very very much alike in our moral beliefs, political beliefs, family beliefs (does that fall under moral?). It's the person not the religion (or lack of). If it comes down to the religion dicating you and not you dicating your beliefs, then you know what? You're doin' it wrong.

That was deep and looooooonnngg!!

THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!

[YoungJRNY]

That, and the unfortunate fact that absence of religion makes many individuals feel as though they're exempt from their own accountability.

Total and Utter Bullshit. You obviously don't know any atheists. Atheists recognise that they, and they alone, are responsible for the consequences of their actions. I don't know a single atheist who believes they are exempt from their own accountability. .

Absence of religion is just that. Absence of religion. Nothing more or less. I have never met an atheist or agnostic who believes that not participating in a religion means that they are free to wander about and do as they please because they're free from responsibility or accountability. That's one of the dumbest things I've heard all week and it's only Monday.

I think that it is the presence of religion , not the absence, that makes (some, not all, calm down!) people feel as though they're exempt from their own accountability. How's that grab ya. It's real easy to do something or not do something and the only reason you can give is that god or the church says it's right or wrong. It's a lot harder to think for oneself and do something because you believe it's right, say no to something because you believe it's wrong, and not lay the reason for those beliefs at god's door.

Abortion is wrong, homosexuality is wrong, ....

Why?

The church/bible says so.

But what do YOU believe.

I believe in the church/bible. God says those things are wrong.

But what do YOU say. Ok nevermind that. How about the pro-lifers that are running around killing doctors. A life is a life. What about that?

They're doing god's work (yes I HAVE heard that! I realze it's an extreme, but still!!)

*facepalm*

They never have an answer that doesn't circle back to what a book or a sermon told them.
Never. I've argued this with people and it's the same every time.

This is also not to say that this is always the case. I would venture that most modern people do not uphold everything just because a book tells them to, and do think on their own. I was raised Catholic and I've said for years that nothing with turn you from Catholicism more than being raised one, especially with the way the church is today. I drifted away from religion, my sister drifted away from Catholicism and is now Lutheran. She calls it "Catholic Lite". (Same great god, less eternal hellfire filling.) YET, she and I are very very much alike in our moral beliefs, political beliefs, family beliefs (does that fall under moral?). It's the person not the religion (or lack of). If it comes down to the religion dicating you and not you dicating your beliefs, then you know what? You're doin' it wrong.

Great post, BJG. This is where the many religious folk lose their way. They have no brain of their own that can dictate facts of life. They try to live life so hard alongside lines of the Bible, and it doesn't matter WHAT that person believes, they will always overrule their self morals in favor of the Bible, and that right there is the point to where all religion goes bad. For all they know, if the Bible said eat a baby everyday, they'd eat a baby everyday. Is it wrong? YES. Is it immoral? Yes, but does it matter? No. It doesn't. Not one time will they sit there and say, "Hey wait a minute? I think eating a baby is wrong!" Will never happen. Whatever the Bible says, is their way of life. A cult nonetheless.

[S2M]

Like I said: Locus of Control

Religious people have an external one. 'nuff said.

[bluejeangirl76]

Great post, BJG. This is where the many religious folk lose their way. They have no brain of their own that can dictate facts of life. They try to live life so hard alongside lines of the Bible, and it doesn't matter WHAT that person believes, they will always overrule their self morals in favor of the Bible, and that right there is the point to where all religion goes bad. For all they know, if the Bible said eat a baby everyday, they'd eat a baby everyday. Is it wrong? YES. Is it immoral? Yes, but does it matter? No. It doesn't. Not one time will they sit there and say, "Hey wait a minute? I think eating a baby is wrong!" Will never happen. Whatever the Bible says, is their way of life. A cult nonetheless.

Whoa. we're NOT supposed to eat babies? Frig. Just this morning I had an Infant McMuffin.
Ok I won't do that anymore.

I hope I was careful and clear about pointing out that I don't believe this of all religious people. There are extremes in all cases, atheists included. I knew one of these fools... just as overzealous about not believing as some of your bangers-of-bibles in their beliefs. The type of person where you just want to go "Omg, shut up! We get it!" I watched this dumbass get into an argument with an old lady in a Fry's parking lot one day over a political bumper sticker. Granted, the old lady started it (no joke). She didn't like the Kerry/Edwards sticker on my car and started yelling about something that ended up leading to god and religion. My atheist friend yelled back.

I just wanted to go home.

[YoungJRNY]

Great post, BJG. This is where the many religious folk lose their way. They have no brain of their own that can dictate facts of life. They try to live life so hard alongside lines of the Bible, and it doesn't matter WHAT that person believes, they will always overrule their self morals in favor of the Bible, and that right there is the point to where all religion goes bad. For all they know, if the Bible said eat a baby everyday, they'd eat a baby everyday. Is it wrong? YES. Is it immoral? Yes, but does it matter? No. It doesn't. Not one time will they sit there and say, "Hey wait a minute? I think eating a baby is wrong!" Will never happen. Whatever the Bible says, is their way of life. A cult nonetheless.

Whoa. we're NOT supposed to eat babies? Frig. Just this morning I had an Infant McMuffin.
Ok I won't do that anymore.

I hope I was careful and clear about pointing out that I don't believe this of all religious people. There are extremes in all cases, atheists included. I knew one of these fools... just as overzealous about not believing as some of your bangers-of-bibles in their beliefs. The type of person where you just want to go "Omg, shut up! We get it!" I watched this dumbass get into an argument with an old lady in a Fry's parking lot one day over a political bumper sticker. Granted, the old lady started it (no joke). She didn't like the Kerry/Edwards sticker on my car and started yelling about something that ended up leading to god and religion. My atheist friend yelled back.

I just wanted to go home.

Wow. In public, to have a Atheist VS Bible Pusher is a little extreme! Point of the matter is, is that this subject is VERY touchy outside of anyone's comfort and to argue this out in public is just asking for trouble. Yes, religion can be shoved down any one's throats at ANY time, and people feel the need to praise that, but it is what it is and being an outspoken Atheist just doesn't roll with people, and that's just not fair as a whole, but that's just the assumption of the population.


This is a touchy subject for me at times only because I've had a finger pointed in my face multiple times, esp when it wasn't needed. I never say anything disrespectful to anyone when they talk about having "the blood of Jesus." (My girlfriend and her family are hard Christians.) Someone asked me if I go to Church and I simply said "At times, but I feel I don't need to go as much as some people do.." That person looked at me and questioned me to the point of an exorcism. I was on vacation this year, and a girl with down syndrome entered the jacuzzi. Of course, I was REALLY nice and kept her company for about 45 minutes. Out of nowhere she wanted to ask me a serious question, and that question was Do I believe in God and do I go to church. Yes, just out of the Blue. I just said I have no comment and that my gf is big into that. She went on to throw the book on me and how I should check twice into it and that I need it in my life. Things like that bother me, and I just don't see the respect of people like that to force onto others and try to force and point the finger at someone just because they don't believe what they believe. Religion cause's more problems than Atheist's ever will.

[verslibre]

Like I said: Locus of Control

Religious people have an external one. 'nuff said.

I don't.

But then, I don't exactly consider myself "religious."

[verslibre]

Wow. In public, to have a Atheist VS Bible Pusher is a little extreme! Point of the matter is, is that this subject is VERY touchy outside of anyone's comfort and to argue this out in public is just asking for trouble. Yes, religion can be shoved down any one's throats at ANY time, and people feel the need to praise that, but it is what it is and being an outspoken Atheist just doesn't roll with people, and that's just not fair as a whole, but that's just the assumption of the population.

This is a touchy subject for me at times only because I've had a finger pointed in my face multiple times, esp when it wasn't needed. I never say anything disrespectful to anyone when they talk about having "the blood of Jesus." (My girlfriend and her family are hard Christians.) Someone asked me if I go to Church and I simply said "At times, but I feel I don't need to go as much as some people do.." That person looked at me and questioned me to the point of an exorcism. I was on vacation this year, and a girl with down syndrome entered the jacuzzi. Of course, I was REALLY nice and kept her company for about 45 minutes. Out of nowhere she wanted to ask me a serious question, and that question was Do I believe in God and do I go to church. Yes, just out of the Blue. I just said I have no comment and that my gf is big into that. She went on to throw the book on me and how I should check twice into it and that I need it in my life. Things like that bother me, and I just don't see the respect of people like that to force onto others and try to force and point the finger at someone just because they don't believe what they believe. Religion cause's more problems than Atheist's ever will.

Sorry, man....TENSION BREAKER!!! Had to be done!!

P.S. Atheism is also a sufficiently "cultic" movement, and Web-wide goings-on demonstrate this.

[YoungJRNY]

Wow. In public, to have a Atheist VS Bible Pusher is a little extreme! Point of the matter is, is that this subject is VERY touchy outside of anyone's comfort and to argue this out in public is just asking for trouble. Yes, religion can be shoved down any one's throats at ANY time, and people feel the need to praise that, but it is what it is and being an outspoken Atheist just doesn't roll with people, and that's just not fair as a whole, but that's just the assumption of the population.

This is a touchy subject for me at times only because I've had a finger pointed in my face multiple times, esp when it wasn't needed. I never say anything disrespectful to anyone when they talk about having "the blood of Jesus." (My girlfriend and her family are hard Christians.) Someone asked me if I go to Church and I simply said "At times, but I feel I don't need to go as much as some people do.." That person looked at me and questioned me to the point of an exorcism. I was on vacation this year, and a girl with down syndrome entered the jacuzzi. Of course, I was REALLY nice and kept her company for about 45 minutes. Out of nowhere she wanted to ask me a serious question, and that question was Do I believe in God and do I go to church. Yes, just out of the Blue. I just said I have no comment and that my gf is big into that. She went on to throw the book on me and how I should check twice into it and that I need it in my life. Things like that bother me, and I just don't see the respect of people like that to force onto others and try to force and point the finger at someone just because they don't believe what they believe. Religion cause's more problems than Atheist's ever will.

Sorry, man....TENSION BREAKER!!! Had to be done!!

P.S. Atheism is also a sufficiently "cultic" movement, and Web-wide goings-on demonstrate this.

Not necessarily. A "cultic" movement is rounding up and worshiping something that one believes to have a special power of that over a human being, or that has more control and power over an individual, thus kissing the grounds and doing whatever it takes to worship the ground before it. I'm sure hardcore Atheist's have their own thing going on and have their gatherings and seminars, but it sure as hell isn't a cult. Just EXACTLY what do they worship? Other than life and the next day? Religion is the biggest cult going, dude.

Here's two definition's of Cult from WiKi and many other sites as well.

Cult: pejoratively refers to a religious group whose beliefs or practices could be considered homosexual or sinister.[1] The term was originally used to denote a system of ritual practices. The narrower, derogatory sense of the word is a product of the 20th century, especially since the 1980s, and is a result of the anti-cult movement, which uses the term in reference to groups seen as authoritarian, exploitative and possibly dangerous.

CULT: - Any group which deviates from Biblical, orthodox, historical Christianity. e.i. They deny the Deity of Christ; His physical resurrection; His personal and physical return to earth and salvation by FAITH alone. From the Latin "cultis" which denotes all that is involved in worship, ritual, emotion, liturgy and attitude. This definition actually denotes what we call denominations and sects and would make all religious movements a cult.

[bluejeangirl76]

Religion is the biggest cult going

It really is. And I can't stress enough that I differentiate between religion and beliefs. You can have a belief system without bringing the structure of religion into it. Kind of like home schooling or a self taught skill (or hobby or whatever word games we want to play here).

I just really think that for a lot of people (again, not "all") the use of god is a way, as was discussed last night, to avoid thinking and making choices and accepting what "is" when what "is" is something people don't understand.

"I don't understand why my house was blown to the other side of town in the tornado... why me?"

You'll get two different answers to this. One from a logical mind and one from a spiritual mind.

"Well, you're house was blown into the next county because a big swirling column of air developed out of that big ass cloud and touched down at 105 mph and came tearing through your yard. Or more simply, because you bought a house in the middle of Tornado Alley. Move to Albequerque, doofus."

The other answer is:

"I don't know why. It was an act of god. He decided this needed to happen to you and we're not always meant to understand why."

or (and this is my favorite)... "God decided that this is what you could handle. This is a test."

WHAT? No. Why do people say things like that ^ ? Because man is too damn arrogant to believe that he made a mistake or that he doesn't understand something. God did not visit Oklahoma and blow your house away to test you, ok? A supercell formed and came your way, and tornado popped out of it and said 'hi'.

Someone is now gonna come in here and ask me "ok, so then WHY does that happen? who created weather?"

The answer is Willard Scott. But that's not the point. Point is, we thank god when good things happen and we blame him when bad happens. And in those cases, we also shirk responsibility for making mistakes, taking responsibility for thinking for ourselves and gaining knowledge.

Perfect example: About 9 years ago a friend of mine lost her baby close to month 6. The pastor came over to discuss the service and all that and I was thereat the time... and the whole time it was... "test of god... he knows you can handle this... we're not always meant to know why..."

I'll tell you why. She ate nothing but crap every meal and she smoked the whole pregnancy AND she had previously lost a baby to a genetic disorder! This happened to her before and she did absolutely nothing to take care of herself or keep an eye on the situation! Yes, I know, this happens to women who do take care of themselves too... let's not go down that path... there is always a medical reason and when one can't be found, (because doctors do not know everything!) it doesn't mean it isn't there, just that we don't know what it is yet, so until we do we can call it part of the cycle of life. Let me guess, "who created the cycle of life?" right?

Again. Willard Scott.

[Sarah]

It's the micromanaging God concept that I just can't accept.

We have responsibility for making decisions and their intended and uninteded consequences. Apply that to thousands of years and you have our present state.

Did slave traders intend for America to be riddled with gangs shooting innocents on street corners? I doubt they looked past lining their pockets.

How can you exert your will if you're stopped from doing and believing what you want? I don't see how you or anyone else is being micromanaged.

I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. I was saying that the concept of a god who listens to billions of prayers (from Earth ALONE) and grants/doesn't grant them on an individual basis, and keeps a naughty or nice list of sins makes me skeptical. That is micromanaging.

[StoneCold]

It's the micromanaging God concept that I just can't accept.

We have responsibility for making decisions and their intended and uninteded consequences. Apply that to thousands of years and you have our present state.

Did slave traders intend for America to be riddled with gangs shooting innocents on street corners? I doubt they looked past lining their pockets.

How can you exert your will if you're stopped from doing and believing what you want? I don't see how you or anyone else is being micromanaged.

I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. I was saying that the concept of a god who listens to billions of prayers (from Earth ALONE) and grants/doesn't grant them on an individual basis, and keeps a naughty or nice list of sins makes me skeptical. That is micromanaging.

Why inconceivable that a being capable of creating life can't monitor creation? Man developed computers which manage millions of input/output signals so the capacity for this type activity is obviously possible by the being that created knowledge itself.

To answer a couple of points of others.

You can't "see" wireless signals but you know they exist.

Amoebas can't discern our existence so grumble to themselves, "nonsense, humans don't exist". We know good and well we're here though.

Extrapolate.

[verslibre]

It's the micromanaging God concept that I just can't accept.

We have responsibility for making decisions and their intended and uninteded consequences. Apply that to thousands of years and you have our present state.

Did slave traders intend for America to be riddled with gangs shooting innocents on street corners? I doubt they looked past lining their pockets.

How can you exert your will if you're stopped from doing and believing what you want? I don't see how you or anyone else is being micromanaged.

I'm not sure you understood what I was saying.

I don't think you were clear enough on what you were getting at. Which is why elaboration is always a good thing, which you did in your follow-up.

[verslibre]

P.S. Atheism is also a sufficiently "cultic" movement, and Web-wide goings-on demonstrate this.

Not necessarily. A "cultic" movement is rounding up and worshiping something that one believes to have a special power of that over a human being, or that has more control and power over an individual, thus kissing the grounds and doing whatever it takes to worship the ground before it. I'm sure hardcore Atheist's have their own thing going on and have their gatherings and seminars, but it sure as hell isn't a cult. Just EXACTLY what do they worship? Other than life and the next day? Religion is the biggest cult going, dude.

I wrote sufficiently cultic. Cultic—emphasis on -ic. The clustermind is also present amongst ye atheists. I see it in thine devotion to the nonGod. A "cult" isn't necessarily limited to a deviant splinter group like the People's Temple or the Branch Davidians, which is what you're referring to. A cult involves anything or any mindset with a solid, established adherence or following, i.e. devotion. Whenever the mere words "God" or "Jesus" is dropped on a message board, y'all are on it like white on rice, bashing away. That's why I wrote cultic..

By the way, arch-atheist Antony Flew is no longer [an atheist] as of a short while ago. I wonder what happened there. That must be the equivalent of one of the Vatican's Archbishops starting up a black metal band.

P.S. Wiki? Bah. Pffffft.. Hahahahahahahaha!!!

[Ehwmatt]

You know what belief we need more than ever in America and probably in the whole world?

A belief in the family again.

I'm not saying every one needs to get married and have three kids, two dogs, and cat. But, the destruction of the nuclear family is what has absolutely killed us. Day care nannies, TVs, Xboxes, Computers, Movies, and Shitty Dumbass Scumbag Celebrities are raising our kids more than at least one full-time parent. You don't think there's a correlation there between that and the shit we see going on every day?

If people have kids, they need to make a commitment to raise them the right way. Otherwise, don't have them.

[Jana]

You know what belief we need more than ever in America and probably in the whole world?

A belief in the family again.

I'm not saying every one needs to get married and have three kids, two dogs, and cat. But, the destruction of the nuclear family is what has absolutely killed us. Day care nannies, TVs, Xboxes, Computers, Movies, and Shitty Dumbass Scumbag Celebrities are raising our kids more than at least one full-time parent. You don't think there's a correlation there between that and the shit we see going on every day?

If people have kids, they need to make a commitment to raise them the right way. Otherwise, don't have them.

I see tons of families where the wife is at home, and the kids are screwed up or good kids that are just given too much freedom and not enough responsibility. Much more lax, talking back more, all the designer labels, and way too much time on computer, cell phones, X box, cable with five thousand channels. It's shocking how much good parents still allow all of this and don't see what they're doing, and it's a shame.

[Ehwmatt]

You know what belief we need more than ever in America and probably in the whole world?

A belief in the family again.

I'm not saying every one needs to get married and have three kids, two dogs, and cat. But, the destruction of the nuclear family is what has absolutely killed us. Day care nannies, TVs, Xboxes, Computers, Movies, and Shitty Dumbass Scumbag Celebrities are raising our kids more than at least one full-time parent. You don't think there's a correlation there between that and the shit we see going on every day?

If people have kids, they need to make a commitment to raise them the right way. Otherwise, don't have them.

I see tons of families where the wife is at home, and the kids are screwed up or good kids that are just given too much freedom and not enough responsibility. Much more lax, talking back more, all the designer labels, and way too much time on computer, cell phones, X box, cable with five thousand channels. It's shocking how much good parents still allow all of this and don't see what they're doing, and it's a shame.

So the kids are allowed to do all of that and you still conclude they are good parents how?

My parents were far from disciplinarian, I never got hit except once when I really deserved a knock from my dad, but I was expected to be a contributing member of society and do something productive for myself at all times once I was past my very early years! Parents that let their kids waste away like that are too unconcerned, that's the problem. They're NOT good parents just because they give them three hot meals and a roof over their head.

It doesn't have to be the wife either. I'm totally cool with the idea of a stay at home dad. I just think someone needs to be at home raising the kids. I understand it's tough for some families where both truly need to work, but man, something's gotta give. Raising the kids should trump a bigger house or three vacations a year.

[Michigan Girl]

You know what belief we need more than ever in America and probably in the whole world?

A belief in the family again.

I'm not saying every one needs to get married and have three kids, two dogs, and cat. But, the destruction of the nuclear family is what has absolutely killed us. Day care nannies, TVs, Xboxes, Computers, Movies, and Shitty Dumbass Scumbag Celebrities are raising our kids more than at least one full-time parent. You don't think there's a correlation there between that and the shit we see going on every day?

If people have kids, they need to make a commitment to raise them the right way. Otherwise, don't have them.

I see tons of families where the wife is at home, and the kids are screwed up or good kids that are just given too much freedom and not enough responsibility. Much more lax, talking back more, all the designer labels, and way too much time on computer, cell phones, X box, cable with five thousand channels. It's shocking how much good parents still allow all of this and don't see what they're doing, and it's a shame.

So the kids are allowed to do all of that and you still conclude they are good parents how?

My parents were far from disciplinarian, I never got hit except once when I really deserved a knock from my dad, but I was expected to be a contributing member of society and do something productive for myself at all times once I was past my very early years! Parents that let their kids waste away like that are too unconcerned, that's the problem. They're NOT good parents just because they give them three hot meals and a roof over their head.

It doesn't have to be the wife either. I'm totally cool with the idea of a stay at home dad. I just think someone needs to be at home raising the kids. I understand it's tough for some families where both truly need to work, but man, something's gotta give. Raising the kids should trump a bigger house or three vacations a year.

Good post, Matty!! Of course, nothing you do will guarantee a good kid...but not trying is asking for trouble more times than not!!

[YoungJRNY]

P.S. Atheism is also a sufficiently "cultic" movement, and Web-wide goings-on demonstrate this.

Not necessarily. A "cultic" movement is rounding up and worshiping something that one believes to have a special power of that over a human being, or that has more control and power over an individual, thus kissing the grounds and doing whatever it takes to worship the ground before it. I'm sure hardcore Atheist's have their own thing going on and have their gatherings and seminars, but it sure as hell isn't a cult. Just EXACTLY what do they worship? Other than life and the next day? Religion is the biggest cult going, dude.

I wrote sufficiently cultic. Cultic—emphasis on -ic. The clustermind is also present amongst ye atheists. I see it in thine devotion to the nonGod. A "cult" isn't necessarily limited to a deviant splinter group like the People's Temple or the Branch Davidians, which is what you're referring to. A cult involves anything or any mindset with a solid, established adherence or following, i.e. devotion. Whenever the mere words "God" or "Jesus" is dropped on a message board, y'all are on it like white on rice, bashing away. That's why I wrote cultic..

By the way, arch-atheist Antony Flew is no longer [an atheist] as of a short while ago. I wonder what happened there. That must be the equivalent of one of the Vatican's Archbishops starting up a black metal band.

P.S. Wiki? Bah. Pffffft.. Hahahahahahahaha!!!

P.S. The Bible? Said to be God's autobiography? Bah. Pfffffft. Hahahahahahahah!

Wiki, written by man, has every credential of that of the bible.

[bluejeangirl76]

P.S. Atheism is also a sufficiently "cultic" movement, and Web-wide goings-on demonstrate this.

Not necessarily. A "cultic" movement is rounding up and worshiping something that one believes to have a special power of that over a human being, or that has more control and power over an individual, thus kissing the grounds and doing whatever it takes to worship the ground before it. I'm sure hardcore Atheist's have their own thing going on and have their gatherings and seminars, but it sure as hell isn't a cult. Just EXACTLY what do they worship? Other than life and the next day? Religion is the biggest cult going, dude.

I wrote sufficiently cultic. Cultic—emphasis on -ic. The clustermind is also present amongst ye atheists. I see it in thine devotion to the nonGod. A "cult" isn't necessarily limited to a deviant splinter group like the People's Temple or the Branch Davidians, which is what you're referring to. A cult involves anything or any mindset with a solid, established adherence or following, i.e. devotion. Whenever the mere words "God" or "Jesus" is dropped on a message board, y'all are on it like white on rice, bashing away. That's why I wrote cultic..

By the way, arch-atheist Antony Flew is no longer [an atheist] as of a short while ago. I wonder what happened there. That must be the equivalent of one of the Vatican's Archbishops starting up a black metal band.

P.S. Wiki? Bah. Pffffft.. Hahahahahahahaha!!!

P.S. The Bible? Said to be God's autobiography? Bah. Pfffffft. Hahahahahahahah!

Wiki, written by man, has every credential of that of the bible.

Well, technically the bible was written by man (er.. men).

Wiki can be edited by anyone and is therefore not going to be (fully) accurate. The bible was written by many people and handed down as the only proof of the claims made inside... basically "a guy said so..."


I call it a draw. I would go to either for factual information.

[parfait]

You know what belief we need more than ever in America and probably in the whole world?

A belief in the family again.

I'm not saying every one needs to get married and have three kids, two dogs, and cat. But, the destruction of the nuclear family is what has absolutely killed us. Day care nannies, TVs, Xboxes, Computers, Movies, and Shitty Dumbass Scumbag Celebrities are raising our kids more than at least one full-time parent. You don't think there's a correlation there between that and the shit we see going on every day?

If people have kids, they need to make a commitment to raise them the right way. Otherwise, don't have them.

Wow. Just stepped into the 21 century have we? What you got there man, is one dumb ass attitude. You got to stop watching Mary Poppins, and join the real world.

A family needs a set amount of money to function - and who makes that money? Yeah, the parents. You can't really think that daddy John is going to play with Fido and little Jack all day, while mother Kate is going to cook the most delicious of stews while quilting a cute towel with her ass, while the money just flows into their bank account?

I'm not saying you can't do both, sure, but you can't expect to both get that cute ass quilted towel, and a bank account stuffed like a thanksgiving turkey. I would even dare to say that what is "ruining" a core family is uneducated and lazy parents who's got the welfare on speeddial, who teach their kids to not do a damn thing. Who cares if the kids sit down and chill with some xbox or a movie - are you really so way off that you rather think kids should read L'Étranger or Poor Folk?

Right. Please pack up your shining medieval armor, and fly back to the dark ages.

[YoungJRNY]

P.S. Atheism is also a sufficiently "cultic" movement, and Web-wide goings-on demonstrate this.

Not necessarily. A "cultic" movement is rounding up and worshiping something that one believes to have a special power of that over a human being, or that has more control and power over an individual, thus kissing the grounds and doing whatever it takes to worship the ground before it. I'm sure hardcore Atheist's have their own thing going on and have their gatherings and seminars, but it sure as hell isn't a cult. Just EXACTLY what do they worship? Other than life and the next day? Religion is the biggest cult going, dude.

I wrote sufficiently cultic. Cultic—emphasis on -ic. The clustermind is also present amongst ye atheists. I see it in thine devotion to the nonGod. A "cult" isn't necessarily limited to a deviant splinter group like the People's Temple or the Branch Davidians, which is what you're referring to. A cult involves anything or any mindset with a solid, established adherence or following, i.e. devotion. Whenever the mere words "God" or "Jesus" is dropped on a message board, y'all are on it like white on rice, bashing away. That's why I wrote cultic..

By the way, arch-atheist Antony Flew is no longer [an atheist] as of a short while ago. I wonder what happened there. That must be the equivalent of one of the Vatican's Archbishops starting up a black metal band.

P.S. Wiki? Bah. Pffffft.. Hahahahahahahaha!!!

P.S. The Bible? Said to be God's autobiography? Bah. Pfffffft. Hahahahahahahah!

Wiki, written by man, has every credential of that of the bible.

Well, technically the bible was written by man (er.. men).

Wiki can be edited by anyone and is therefore not going to be (fully) accurate. The bible was written by many people and handed down as the only proof of the claims made inside... basically "a guy said so..."


I call it a draw. I would go to either for factual information.

Uh, BJG, the Bible WAS heavily edited. It's called the New Testament.

[bluejeangirl76]

P.S. Atheism is also a sufficiently "cultic" movement, and Web-wide goings-on demonstrate this.

Not necessarily. A "cultic" movement is rounding up and worshiping something that one believes to have a special power of that over a human being, or that has more control and power over an individual, thus kissing the grounds and doing whatever it takes to worship the ground before it. I'm sure hardcore Atheist's have their own thing going on and have their gatherings and seminars, but it sure as hell isn't a cult. Just EXACTLY what do they worship? Other than life and the next day? Religion is the biggest cult going, dude.

I wrote sufficiently cultic. Cultic—emphasis on -ic. The clustermind is also present amongst ye atheists. I see it in thine devotion to the nonGod. A "cult" isn't necessarily limited to a deviant splinter group like the People's Temple or the Branch Davidians, which is what you're referring to. A cult involves anything or any mindset with a solid, established adherence or following, i.e. devotion. Whenever the mere words "God" or "Jesus" is dropped on a message board, y'all are on it like white on rice, bashing away. That's why I wrote cultic..

By the way, arch-atheist Antony Flew is no longer [an atheist] as of a short while ago. I wonder what happened there. That must be the equivalent of one of the Vatican's Archbishops starting up a black metal band.

P.S. Wiki? Bah. Pffffft.. Hahahahahahahaha!!!

P.S. The Bible? Said to be God's autobiography? Bah. Pfffffft. Hahahahahahahah!

Wiki, written by man, has every credential of that of the bible.

Well, technically the bible was written by man (er.. men).

Wiki can be edited by anyone and is therefore not going to be (fully) accurate. The bible was written by many people and handed down as the only proof of the claims made inside... basically "a guy said so..."


I call it a draw. I would go to either for factual information.

Uh, BJG, the Bible WAS heavily edited. It's called the New Testament.

http://www.biblewiki.be/wiki/Main_Page

[RossValoryRocks]

I am a dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac...so I stay up all night wondering if there really is a doG!

Look people...on both sides...maybe if you just let the other people live their lives and not poke sticks in eachs others eyes it would a better world?

My my atheistic friend should stop calling people who have beliefs things like: Dumb, ignorant, cult followers, etc etc.

My friends who embrace religion, maybe if you stopped trying to do God's work for him like telling people they are going to hell for instance, being so judgemental (Judge ye not...and all that), and quit shoving you beliefs down peoples throats things would be better?

I for one believe Jesus died for my sins, and that God made the world for us, and he like any "parent" sets limits and the are defined in the Bible...HOWEVER, it is not my place to tell someone how to live thier life, or condem them because the sin, because ALL have sinned, and fall short of the Glory of God...

Example for you? Ok...since you asked: All sin is equal in God's eyes...only humans put a limit on it (it was just a small sin, or a mortal sin or what have you). Too many of my fellow Christians use sliding scale or morality, but I can tell you that flipping off that person who cut you off is EVERY BIT as bad in the eyes of God, as a murder or our gay friends having sex.

Think about that next time you think to condem someone...all sin is equal, and tell me a day that you never sinned and THEN you can stand up and pilory someone for how they live their lives.

Now atheist friends...I seem to slap my brother and sister Christians pretty hard, but now it's your turn. You should think about whatever moral code you live by, and I suggest that being rude does nothing but provoke animosity toward you, and yes most atheists I know are rude toward people who embrace religion at one point or another, just look at this thread.

Just my 2 cents of course!

[YoungJRNY]

I am a dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac...so I stay up all night wondering if there really is a doG!

Look people...on both sides...maybe if you just let the other people live their lives and not poke sticks in eachs others eyes it would a better world?

My my atheistic friend should stop calling people who have beliefs things like: Dumb, ignorant, cult followers, etc etc.

My friends who embrace religion, maybe if you stopped trying to do God's work for him like telling people they are going to hell for instance, being so judgemental (Judge ye not...and all that), and quit shoving you beliefs down peoples throats things would be better?

I for one believe Jesus died for my sins, and that God made the world for us, and he like any "parent" sets limits and the are defined in the Bible...HOWEVER, it is not my place to tell someone how to live thier life, or condem them because the sin, because ALL have sinned, and fall short of the Glory of God...

Example for you? Ok...since you asked: All sin is equal in God's eyes...only humans put a limit on it (it was just a small sin, or a mortal sin or what have you). Too many of my fellow Christians use sliding scale or morality, but I can tell you that flipping off that person who cut you off is EVERY BIT as bad in the eyes of God, as a murder or our gay friends having sex.

Think about that next time you think to condem someone...all sin is equal, and tell me a day that you never sinned and THEN you can stand up and pilory someone for how they live their lives.

Now atheist friends...I seem to slap my brother and sister Christians pretty hard, but now it's your turn. You should think about whatever moral code you live by, and I suggest that being rude does nothing but provoke animosity toward you, and yes most atheists I know are rude toward people who embrace religion at one point or another, just look at this thread.

Just my 2 cents of course!

yes most atheists I know are rude toward people who embrace religion at one point or another, just look at this thread

Again, StoneColdStu, it's hard to judge one's tone via post. If I seem to be a "bully" I fully apologize. Let me tell you I was NEVER, EVER rude to somebody in the midst of a conversation about this. In fact, it's always someone who threatens me from their religion and tells me I'll go to a bad place when I die. I don't tolerate such threats. (I'm not talking about this board.)

[RossValoryRocks]

Again, StoneColdStu, it's hard to judge one's tone via post. If I seem to be a "bully" I fully apologize. Let me tell you I was NEVER, EVER rude to somebody in the midst of a conversation about this. In fact, it's always someone who threatens me from their religion and tells me I'll go to a bad place when I die. I don't tolerate such threats. (I'm not talking about this board.)

Which is why of course I said what I said to my fellow Christians...and really any other religion...

[fredinator]

You're angry YJrny--from what you've posted you've had a rough time this last year or so. I am not "religious" either; I think I may be more "spiritual" as in what I think Verselibre means... Anyway, I have tons of doubts like you all but as I've gotten older I've thought more about the beauty of some of the passages in the Bible--the gorgeous poetry that is in it and focused on that... I've read somewhere where poetry and music have almost a mystical effect on the brain and some of the most beautiful poetry in the world is in the Bible... Maybe that's where spirituality is? I don't know. I thought the Bible was a guide to living and a comfort to those in need of comfort. I never heard that God was like the Wizard of Oz and granted every wish asked by the applicant. I think that has been perpetrated by some religions.

P.S. Do you believe in ghosts and stuff?

[RossValoryRocks]

I never heard that God was like the Wizard of Oz and granted every wish asked by the applicant. I think that has been perpetrated by some religions.

God answers all prayers...but sometimes they answer is "NO".

I have seen that power of prayer work miracles...I have seen my prayers come to naught...yet I still believe, because 1 miracle is worth a thousand prayers that appearantly go unanswered.

[fredinator]

Well, I guess that goes into the interpretation of prayer and miracles. I think of prayer, a real, deep prayer, as more of a reflection or a request for strength or compassion or something or a thank you even--not a literal request for dear God get me out of this and I will do such and such. I guess it WOULD feel like a miracle if you prayed all the time for this and that and by the law of averages one of those came out in a very positive way...

[YoungJRNY]

You're angry YJrny--from what you've posted you've had a rough time this last year or so. I am not "religious" either; I think I may be more "spiritual" as in what I think Verselibre means... Anyway, I have tons of doubts like you all but as I've gotten older I've thought more about the beauty of some of the passages in the Bible--the gorgeous poetry that is in it and focused on that... I've read somewhere where poetry and music have almost a mystical effect on the brain and some of the most beautiful poetry in the world is in the Bible... Maybe that's where spirituality is? I don't know. I thought the Bible was a guide to living and a comfort to those in need of comfort. I never heard that God was like the Wizard of Oz and granted every wish asked by the applicant. I think that has been perpetrated by some religions.

P.S. Do you believe in ghosts and stuff?

Fred, nope, not angry at all. Actually, my life is heading in a GREAT direction and I did it all without God or prayer. I am loving life, have a loving family, a loving girlfriend, and enjoy being around people as a whole. My life is on the fast track and I can say that with my head held high.

As far as ghost's, great question. I've never been dead before, so I don't have the slightest idea of what happens when I die. But, I always took a liking in the fact of T.V shows such as Ghost Hunters, or Paranormal State. Is some of it staged? Of course, but their findings from a energy standpoint can't go unnoticed and raise a burning question to the living.