Transsexual Jesus

[artist4perry]

P.S. The Bible? Said to be God's autobiography?

Puhleez. Where did you get that? No wonder you're confoozled.

I don't even know what you're saying man. Confoozled? Are you on crack? You're better off talking in Old English my friend, maybe you'd make more sense.

I was just makin a haha, but like BJG said, no side can prove their point of who's right or wrong. Fact is, when you put up logic vs logic then I believe religion doesn't stand a chance when talking straight logic of what actually happens in this world, God or not. In fact, it's Atheism that uses nothing but logic and brainstorms to the point where they use things that are actually proven to their advantage. Religion, eh, not so much.

Beg to differ, my fine young friend. There are scientist that look into the hypothesis of Inteligent Design. Have you ever watched the movie made by Ben Stein called Expelled? When scientists even try and explore the theory of Inteligent Design they are threatened with their jobs. You are ridiculed for even trying to look into it, though many brave scientists do. There are scientist who write books on the subject but you won't hear about it from the scientific community.

You see they are threatened by any theory that does not support the one they guard like it is gospel. I thought all scientists were of open mind? I guess only if it pertains to what they wish to believe, and not what might jepordize their un"biased" theories. A true scientist would explore all theories. Scientist once thought the world was flat and to say it was not, was to have your life threatened as well. Glad someone questioned their scientific genius.

[Michigan Girl]

You know what belief we need more than ever in America and probably in the whole world?

A belief in the family again.

I'm not saying every one needs to get married and have three kids, two dogs, and cat. But, the destruction of the nuclear family is what has absolutely killed us. Day care nannies, TVs, Xboxes, Computers, Movies, and Shitty Dumbass Scumbag Celebrities are raising our kids more than at least one full-time parent. You don't think there's a correlation there between that and the shit we see going on every day?

If people have kids, they need to make a commitment to raise them the right way. Otherwise, don't have them.

Wow. Just stepped into the 21 century have we? What you got there man, is one dumb ass attitude. You got to stop watching Mary Poppins, and join the real world.

A family needs a set amount of money to function - and who makes that money? Yeah, the parents. You can't really think that daddy John is going to play with Fido and little Jack all day, while mother Kate is going to cook the most delicious of stews while quilting a cute towel with her ass, while the money just flows into their bank account?

I'm not saying you can't do both, sure, but you can't expect to both get that cute ass quilted towel, and a bank account stuffed like a thanksgiving turkey. I would even dare to say that what is "ruining" a core family is uneducated and lazy parents who's got the welfare on speeddial, who teach their kids to not do a damn thing. Who cares if the kids sit down and chill with some xbox or a movie - are you really so way off that you rather think kids should read L'Étranger or Poor Folk?

Right. Please pack up your shining medieval armor, and fly back to the dark ages.

You must have had a bad childhood, Peanut~Buster...hope things get better for you!!!

[Ehwmatt]

You know what belief we need more than ever in America and probably in the whole world?

A belief in the family again.

I'm not saying every one needs to get married and have three kids, two dogs, and cat. But, the destruction of the nuclear family is what has absolutely killed us. Day care nannies, TVs, Xboxes, Computers, Movies, and Shitty Dumbass Scumbag Celebrities are raising our kids more than at least one full-time parent. You don't think there's a correlation there between that and the shit we see going on every day?

If people have kids, they need to make a commitment to raise them the right way. Otherwise, don't have them.

Wow. Just stepped into the 21 century have we? What you got there man, is one dumb ass attitude. You got to stop watching Mary Poppins, and join the real world.

A family needs a set amount of money to function - and who makes that money? Yeah, the parents. You can't really think that daddy John is going to play with Fido and little Jack all day, while mother Kate is going to cook the most delicious of stews while quilting a cute towel with her ass, while the money just flows into their bank account?

I'm not saying you can't do both, sure, but you can't expect to both get that cute ass quilted towel, and a bank account stuffed like a thanksgiving turkey. I would even dare to say that what is "ruining" a core family is uneducated and lazy parents who's got the welfare on speeddial, who teach their kids to not do a damn thing. Who cares if the kids sit down and chill with some xbox or a movie - are you really so way off that you rather think kids should read L'Étranger or Poor Folk?

Right. Please pack up your shining medieval armor, and fly back to the dark ages.

You must have a bad childhood, Peanut~Buster...hope things get better for you!!!

Rock on MG

[parfait]

You know what belief we need more than ever in America and probably in the whole world?

A belief in the family again.

I'm not saying every one needs to get married and have three kids, two dogs, and cat. But, the destruction of the nuclear family is what has absolutely killed us. Day care nannies, TVs, Xboxes, Computers, Movies, and Shitty Dumbass Scumbag Celebrities are raising our kids more than at least one full-time parent. You don't think there's a correlation there between that and the shit we see going on every day?

If people have kids, they need to make a commitment to raise them the right way. Otherwise, don't have them.

Wow. Just stepped into the 21 century have we? What you got there man, is one dumb ass attitude. You got to stop watching Mary Poppins, and join the real world.

A family needs a set amount of money to function - and who makes that money? Yeah, the parents. You can't really think that daddy John is going to play with Fido and little Jack all day, while mother Kate is going to cook the most delicious of stews while quilting a cute towel with her ass, while the money just flows into their bank account?

I'm not saying you can't do both, sure, but you can't expect to both get that cute ass quilted towel, and a bank account stuffed like a thanksgiving turkey. I would even dare to say that what is "ruining" a core family is uneducated and lazy parents who's got the welfare on speeddial, who teach their kids to not do a damn thing. Who cares if the kids sit down and chill with some xbox or a movie - are you really so way off that you rather think kids should read L'Étranger or Poor Folk?

Right. Please pack up your shining medieval armor, and fly back to the dark ages.

Why don't you shut your mouth you fuckin shithead and go coat your asshole with some yogurt and granola and try lick it off you fuckhead.

If people can't raise their own kids, they shouldn't have them. Pure and simple. They can chill with an Xbox as long as they go do something productive with the rest of their time, not do that pointless shit all day (I own an Xbox FYI). I'll pack up my medieval armor but how bout you jump on my fuckin broadsword asshole first? Nahhhh you'd probably like the anal penetration too much

You're making it too god damn easy, man. Not only did you loose what little point you had, but you managed to seem like a real sissy boy, going all psycho the second someone comes up with a better argument then you. ... Next!

There's two opinions, mine and yours, no arguments you big fruity fag.

If you go back and read what I wrote, I acknowledged that some couples both need to work out of necessity. But I know plenty of well-to-do couples that both work just for the sake of it... or on the flip side, working is fine, but then when they come home after their shfit, they go out and drink 4 nights a week and don't take kids to after school activities or spend time with them. That's objectively bad parenting.

But I know plenty of well-to-do couples that both work just for the sake of it

Your way of thinking comes off as really uneducated. If everyone had the mindset that you have, that one shouldn't work for the sake of it, but only for egotistical reasons, then what would especially USA become? It's often those who already have a family(!), that become entrepeneurs, since one often needs some established venture capital to start a business. More good businesses means more jobs and a all together higher BNP. So basically: a good working family = (hopefully) established capital = more jobs, and more money in circulation.

So don't dismiss working parents as something bad - that's idiotic. It's a necessity. Your mindset is weak and pisses me off, but I won't take it away from you. You're basically bashing away on what the US is based on: those who are willing to participate, and create something for them self and others. Sure, I get it. You're an idiot. It's OK, man.

You must have had a bad childhood, Peanut~Buster...hope things get better for you!!!

Nope. Had a great childhood.

[Ehwmatt]

Your way of thinking comes off as really uneducated. If everyone had the mindset that you have, that one shouldn't work for the sake of it, but only for egotistical reasons, then what would especially USA become? It's often those who already have a family(!), that become entrepeneurs, since one often needs some established venture capital to start a business. More good businesses means more jobs and a all together higher BNP. So basically: a good working family = (hopefully) established capital = more jobs, and more money in circulation.

So don't dismiss working parents as something bad - that's idiotic. It's a necessity. Your mindset is weak and pisses me off, but I won't take it away from you. You're basically bashing away on what the US is based on: those who are willing to participate, and create something for them self and others. Sure, I get it. You're an idiot. It's OK, man.

Wow are you taking my argument to a bastardized logical extreme.

I would NEVER condemn people for working, but if people are going to have kids, they need to try their damndest to give them a lot of time and guidance... something that many have failed at the last 30 years for their own selfish reasons far past the point of making money for the sake of paying the bills! YOU are the myopic one.

EDIT: Let me be clear here, you are cool with kids not getting any guidance from parents? Having their parents take them to practice after school? Allowing a day care to raise them and a nanny to take them to all their after school events when they get a little older?

There is a happy medium... many have not found it. Others purposely avoid it, like drunk welfare wastes

[verslibre]

P.S. The Bible? Said to be God's autobiography?

Puhleez. Where did you get that? No wonder you're confoozled.

I don't even know what you're saying man. Confoozled? Are you on crack? You're better off talking in Old English my friend, maybe you'd make more sense.

I was just makin a haha, but like BJG said, no side can prove their point of who's right or wrong. Fact is, when you put up logic vs logic then I believe religion doesn't stand a chance when talking straight logic of what actually happens in this world, God or not. In fact, it's Atheism that uses nothing but logic and brainstorms to the point where they use things that are actually proven or having some strong artifacts to support an arguement to their advantage. Religion, eh, not so much.

Okay, since you've got everything down pat and you're convinced, why even involve yourself in this discussion, for there is nothing to discuss? Why bother?

[StoneCold]

By the way, arch-atheist Antony Flew is no longer [an atheist] as of a short while ago. I wonder what happened there. That must be the equivalent of one of the Vatican's Archbishops starting up a black metal band.

Thanks for the mention regarding Flew. Its been years since I read CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" so it'll be interesting to re-read and compare what Flew's original oppositions were.

The debate here meanders between 1. Is there a God? and 2. Is the Bible God's Word?

I believe that an intelligent design of the universe points to an intelligent creation. I used to also hate the religious debates that would spring up around me. My opinion was, leave people alone, believe what you want and just shut up about it. I would leave so I didn't have to hear it.

I realize now its more complicated than that since what individuals subscribe to influences their actions and eventually impacts others.

Anyway, I'll end tonight with Einstein:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... mbwEs5qUPM

Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe.

Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists."

This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."

Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

[Don]

By the way, arch-atheist Antony Flew is no longer [an atheist] as of a short while ago. I wonder what happened there. That must be the equivalent of one of the Vatican's Archbishops starting up a black metal band.

Thanks for the mention regarding Flew. Its been years since I read CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" so it'll be interesting to re-read and compare what Flew's original oppositions were.

The debate here meanders between 1. Is there a God? and 2. Is the Bible God's Word?

I believe that an intelligent design of the universe points to an intelligent creation. I used to also hate the religious debates that would spring up around me. My opinion was, leave people alone, believe what you want and just shut up about it. I would leave so I didn't have to hear it.

I realize now its more complicated than that since what individuals subscribe to influences their actions and eventually impacts others.

Anyway, I'll end tonight with Einstein:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... mbwEs5qUPM

Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe.

Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists."

This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."

Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

I'm in Einstein's camp more than anyone elses.

[fredinator]

I remember reading about Charles Darwin and his later life; that he became depressed and said something about how difficult it was to have faith when one saw the cruelty of nature in the animal kingdom . I found this squib in the Times Online (the London Times) about him:

The truth is, as ever, more complex. Darwin was too interesting, too careful a thinker to be caricatured in these ways. He was a Christian and yes, he did lose his faith. But he was never an atheist. He engaged in religious debate with friends but confessed to being in a hopeless “muddle”. He agonised over whether the exquisite beauty of life on earth was worth the pain of natural selection. He hated religious controversy and was deeply respectful of others’ views. He took upon himself the duties of a country parson whilst living at Downe and contributed to the South American Missionary Society. And, to top it all, he often doubted whether, his mind being evolved, he could even trust it in such matters. All in all, he was too complex, too subtle a man to be left to the polemicists.

I always feel sad when I read about Mr. D...

[Zedul]

I have yet to meet a true atheist... though I have met a few irreverent agnostics who are really pissed off at the God they are not sure they believe in.

I flip flop between being a scientific Orthodox Christian and embracing most of the ideals of Deism.

Though I will probably never set foot in a church again, Atheism just seems completely irrational - an emotional response to past perceived "wrongs" visited upon oneself by the universe.

I tend to identify with Jung and modern mythologists like Joseph Campbell, - there is an inner need for human beings to "believe" it is a basic instinct with us and one of the first things we did that separated us from other primates - we buried our dead, made religious artifacts and prayed. In that context spirituality seems to born in the same moment that "reason" was and from the moment we have been able to logically think about reality and our place in it we had an instinctual understanding that "something" out there made us for a purpose and every since we have struggled with trying to understand it.

If God didn't exist in some form I doubt there would be that burning instinctual need to "believe" that seems to be ultimately more powerful than even our drive for food and sex.

[YoungJRNY]

P.S. The Bible? Said to be God's autobiography?

Puhleez. Where did you get that? No wonder you're confoozled.

I don't even know what you're saying man. Confoozled? Are you on crack? You're better off talking in Old English my friend, maybe you'd make more sense.

I was just makin a haha, but like BJG said, no side can prove their point of who's right or wrong. Fact is, when you put up logic vs logic then I believe religion doesn't stand a chance when talking straight logic of what actually happens in this world, God or not. In fact, it's Atheism that uses nothing but logic and brainstorms to the point where they use things that are actually proven or having some strong artifacts to support an arguement to their advantage. Religion, eh, not so much.

Okay, since you've got everything down pat and you're convinced, why even involve yourself in this discussion, for there is nothing to discuss? Why bother?

Not that I need an explanation (and I never said I was convinced) like yourself, I have to deal with religion, in one way shape or form, on a daily basis and have it shoven down my throat and have it pressed on me more ways than one. Plus, this IS a public message board, such things like this are going to be discussed. If you want to discuss this privately, then why have the thread to begin with? This is used to show your personal opinion on the matter, and this is my personal opinion. I have every right to talk as to why I think the Bible is bullshit over why anyone thinks it's the all mighty power of God and that you should live by it. That's why I bother, just like you or anyone believing in the bible feels the matter to force it onto others. It goes hand in hand my friend.

[YoungJRNY]

I have yet to meet a true atheist... though I have met a few irreverent agnostics who are really pissed off at the God they are not sure they believe in.

I flip flop between being a scientific Orthodox Christian and embracing most of the ideals of Deism.

Though I will probably never set foot in a church again, Atheism just seems completely irrational - an emotional response to past perceived "wrongs" visited upon oneself by the universe.

I tend to identify with Jung and modern mythologists like Joseph Campbell, - there is an inner need for human beings to "believe" it is a basic instinct with us and one of the first things we did that separated us from other primates - we buried our dead, made religious artifacts and prayed. In that context spirituality seems to born in the same moment that "reason" was and from the moment we have been able to logically think about reality and our place in it we had an instinctual understanding that "something" out there made us for a purpose and every since we have struggled with trying to understand it.

If God didn't exist in some form I doubt there would be that burning instinctual need to "believe" that seems to be ultimately more powerful than even our drive for food and sex.

If God didn't exist in some form I doubt there would be that burning instinctual need to "believe" that seems to be ultimately more powerful than even our drive for food and sex.[

Could it be the fact that our early ancestry made up such a being to begin with followed by fiction upon fiction stories to try to get us into believing an invisible entity watching over the universe? Instinctual? I'd guarantee you that if the Bible or any religion has ever been created, that we wouldn't have the slightest "instinct" into predicting of such a spiritual "God" that rules the universe. At an early age, before Church was pressed on me, I've never had such an instinct. There is REALLY no more to say on this issue. It's going to go round and round and there's no end in sight.

[bluejeangirl76]

There is REALLY no more to say on this issue.

OHHHH yeah there is! I should have used this example pages ago... I was reminded of it this morning as they were talking about this guy on the radio - my favorite source of both angst and entertainment with regard to this issue - Kirk Cameron, King Douche.

To be clear - I don't think poorly of him for what he believes. Not by any means at all.

He makes me want to put him through a wall for the WAY he goes about it. He cannot just believe and worship and conduct his life according to his own faith. He's made conversion to his way of believing into a mission and he's out there running around on that TV show of his ("Way of the Master") - literally going up to people on the street, asking them questions and no matter what the answer is, he and his partner in crime will tell them why their answer makes them a sinner (I've seen the show, they really honestly do this!).

The thing they were playing on the radio just a bit ago was Kirk Cameron running around yelling about teaching religion in public schools, and he says that atheism is at 61% - that it has doubled and that it DIRECTLY DUE TO religion not being taught in school. I do not know where he received these "facts".

He's got this whole thing where everyone needs to believe what he believes and teach their kids the same. If you don't "see the way" or whatever his thing on his show it, then you are a sinner and you will not go to heaven. The problem is, and I'm not talkign out of my ass either - I've listened to this guy - that it does not matter what you do or say or think or feel or believe - you're a sinner. EVEN if you agree with him, he will still find a way to tell you that you're doing wrong.

He's one of the extreme cases that makes the majority of decent respectable Christians look bad. He's the stereotype "religious nut". Again, this is not to say this doesn't exist on the other side of the debate - I know it does.

I was discussing this with a friend a number of years back after I first saw his show, and I remember saying let him approach ME on the street like that and ask me if I've ever had an suggestive thought or if I ever stole a piece of candy when I was a child and see what happens. He'll be sorry he ever said 'hi'.

Honestly, get me in a room with this guy. Christmas is coming and this is what I'm asking Santa for!!
I have some things I'd like to discuss with little Mike Seaver!!

Then again - no - bad idea. My head would explode inside of five minutes.

[verslibre]

That's why I bother, just like you or anyone believing in the bible feels the matter to force it onto others.

I haven't "force-fed" anybody anything.

I have every right to talk as to why I think the Bible is bullshit over why anyone thinks it's the all mighty power of God and that you should live by it.

Okaaaaay....but then you wrote:

There is REALLY no more to say on this issue.

[verslibre]

By the way, arch-atheist Antony Flew is no longer [an atheist] as of a short while ago. I wonder what happened there. That must be the equivalent of one of the Vatican's Archbishops starting up a black metal band.

Thanks for the mention regarding Flew. Its been years since I read CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" so it'll be interesting to re-read and compare what Flew's original oppositions were.

The debate here meanders between 1. Is there a God? and 2. Is the Bible God's Word?

I believe that an intelligent design of the universe points to an intelligent creation. I used to also hate the religious debates that would spring up around me. My opinion was, leave people alone, believe what you want and just shut up about it. I would leave so I didn't have to hear it.

I realize now its more complicated than that since what individuals subscribe to influences their actions and eventually impacts others.

Anyway, I'll end tonight with Einstein:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... mbwEs5qUPM

Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe.

Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists."

This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."

Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Great post!

[S2M]

......"Einstein was by no means a religious person - in fact, the great physicist saw religion as no more than a "childish superstition". "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this", Einstein wrote.'

Einstein wrote in a 1954 letter to Eric Gutkind. A letter written in his latter years.

[artist4perry]

......"Einstein was by no means a religious person - in fact, the great physicist saw religion as no more than a "childish superstition". "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this", Einstein wrote.'

Einstein wrote in a 1954 letter to Eric Gutkind. A letter written in his latter years.

I guess I would never model my faith after Einstein. I find many things folks refer to as "Childish" deep and thought provoking.

Sometimes a child can see a truth a grown up is too proud to see. Or won't.

I have respect for Einstien, but realize as a man he is not perfect, nor omnipotent.

[Sarah]

Theories are just that..............hypothesis based on facts. But not all proved. You can no more prove that the world exploded and made everything work together perfectly any more than we can prove God. They both take some faith to beleive. They both have things unexplained.

Um, what facts is the hypothesis of God based on other than that things exist? Serious question.

There ARE certain facts that support the theory of the Big Bang, evolution, etc. We can see the universe expanding over time through data provided by telescopes. We can see the close relationships between species through DNA, chromosomes, and anatomical analysis. Science tries every known method of disproving a hypothesis before calling it a theory. I'll buy that there's a certain amount of faith that science is doing it right. But it's wayyyy less required faith than hypothesizing God's existence.

[StoneCold]

My quoting Einstein is not to validate any specific religion. Simply to show that he was not an atheist. He may not have accepted the Bible but did believe in a greater being as having been responsible for life.

Once you accept that there's something bigger than us then you can decide for yourself which way you want to acknowledge it. That's where a lot of the trouble starts, differing religions, customs, rituals and methods of prosthelytizing.

I used to debate the JW's at the door, now I duck out like most folks and keep the lights out.

[Don]

My quoting Einstein is not to validate any specific religion. Simply to show that he was not an atheist. He may not have accepted the Bible but did believe in a greater being as having been responsible for life.

Once you accept that there's something bigger than us then you can decide for yourself which way you want to acknowledge it. That's where a lot of the trouble starts, differing religions, customs, rituals and methods of prosthelytizing.

I used to debate the JW's at the door, now I duck out like most folks and keep the lights out.

I'm cool with there being a creator, it's the talking snake bits and resurrections from the dead, burning bushes and all those things I'm not buying. I guess if you don't take the bible literally and treat it like a self help book, you can find a bit of middle ground. When it comes to Genesis, I think JRR Tolkien's version is better.

[Ehwmatt]

I am a baptized Catholic that doesn't practice or get much at all out of Church/praying etc... so I don't do it and haven't done it for years and years.

With that said, I think it's funny how Ginger is the one being non-confrontational about her views and some of the atheists/agnostics/non-believers in here who say they hate having fingers wagged in their face or being told what to believe are the ones getting very confrontational. Just sayin'

[Ehwmatt]

My quoting Einstein is not to validate any specific religion. Simply to show that he was not an atheist. He may not have accepted the Bible but did believe in a greater being as having been responsible for life.

Once you accept that there's something bigger than us then you can decide for yourself which way you want to acknowledge it. That's where a lot of the trouble starts, differing religions, customs, rituals and methods of prosthelytizing.

I used to debate the JW's at the door, now I duck out like most folks and keep the lights out.

I'm cool with there being a creator, it's the talking snake bits and resurrections from the dead, burning bushes and all those things I'm not buying. I guess if you don't take the bible literally and treat it like a self help book, you can find a bit of middle ground. When it comes to Genesis, I think JRR Tolkien's version is better.

I don't know what I believe overall, but I sure as shit don't take the Bible literally, especially the Old Testament

[artist4perry]

Theories are just that..............hypothesis based on facts. But not all proved. You can no more prove that the world exploded and made everything work together perfectly any more than we can prove God. They both take some faith to beleive. They both have things unexplained.

Um, what facts is the hypothesis of God based on other than that things exist? Serious question.

There ARE certain facts that support the theory of the Big Bang, evolution, etc. We can see the universe expanding over time through data provided by telescopes. We can see the close relationships between species through DNA, chromosomes, and anatomical analysis. Science tries every known method of disproving a hypothesis before calling it a theory. I'll buy that there's a certain amount of faith that science is doing it right. But it's wayyyy less required faith than hypothesizing God's existence.

There are scientist who have written books, and there are tons of facts supporting Intelligent Design. Why have you not heard of it? Maybe because it is not allowed to be taught. People who believe in God do not disagree with DNA or anything of that nature. And as for relationships between DNA if it is designed out of simmular material it does not mean we all are descendents of a worm....... I think it is unfair that scientist who claim to be so "open" minded won't even allow it to be researched................why is that? There are cases where supposed missing links were forged for years before being exposed as hoaxes.........why is that? I think it is because they want their theory to be fact so badly they were willing to lie.

I guess we will have to disagree here.............I think it takes more faith to believe we all decended like inbread hillbillies...........the family tree running straight down.

LooK Sarah, I can tell you books to read, and things to look up. But I have a feeling you would just dismiss them. I only jump in here because I see a negative vibe here about people of faith. We have to prove there is a God, though you cannot prove there is not. You cannot prove Evolution either. But you expect me to give proof? Faith is about something much deeper than I can explain to you. And if you want iron clad proof I don't have it. I just know what I have experianced, and what I believe, and I don't remember telling anyone here that they have to prove why they are non believers.

[YoungJRNY]

That's why I bother, just like you or anyone believing in the bible feels the matter to force it onto others.

I haven't "force-fed" anybody anything.

I have every right to talk as to why I think the Bible is bullshit over why anyone thinks it's the all mighty power of God and that you should live by it.

Okaaaaay....but then you wrote:

There is REALLY no more to say on this issue.

Dammit man, READ. Whatever I ever said about having a finger in my face, or being "force-fed" never really contained to this board but personal experience outside of this board or on debate.

[S2M]

Theories are just that..............hypothesis based on facts. But not all proved. You can no more prove that the world exploded and made everything work together perfectly any more than we can prove God. They both take some faith to beleive. They both have things unexplained.

Um, what facts is the hypothesis of God based on other than that things exist? Serious question.

There ARE certain facts that support the theory of the Big Bang, evolution, etc. We can see the universe expanding over time through data provided by telescopes. We can see the close relationships between species through DNA, chromosomes, and anatomical analysis. Science tries every known method of disproving a hypothesis before calling it a theory. I'll buy that there's a certain amount of faith that science is doing it right. But it's wayyyy less required faith than hypothesizing God's existence.

There are scientist who have written books, and there are tons of facts supporting Intelligent Design. Why have you not heard of it? Maybe because it is not allowed to be taught. People who believe in God do not disagree with DNA or anything of that nature. And as for relationships between DNA if it is designed out of simmular material it does not mean we all are descendents of a worm....... I think it is unfair that scientist who claim to be so "open" minded won't even allow it to be researched................why is that? There are cases where supposed missing links were forged for years before being exposed as hoaxes.........why is that? I think it is because they want their theory to be fact so badly they were willing to lie.

I guess we will have to disagree here.............I think it takes more faith to believe we all decended like inbread hillbillies...........the family tree running straight down.

LooK Sarah, I can tell you books to read, and things to look up. But I have a feeling you would just dismiss them. I only jump in here because I see a negative vibe here about people of faith. We have to prove there is a God, though you cannot prove there is not. You cannot prove Evolution either. But you expect me to give proof? Faith is about something much deeper than I can explain to you. And if you want iron clad proof I don't have it. I just know what I have experianced, and what I believe, and I don't remember telling anyone here that they have to prove why they are non believers.

I'm not being flippant, but what if I told you that flying elephants exist. They are usually purple with pink spots. But I can't really prove they exist.

What would you say?

[YoungJRNY]

Theories are just that..............hypothesis based on facts. But not all proved. You can no more prove that the world exploded and made everything work together perfectly any more than we can prove God. They both take some faith to beleive. They both have things unexplained.

Um, what facts is the hypothesis of God based on other than that things exist? Serious question.

There ARE certain facts that support the theory of the Big Bang, evolution, etc. We can see the universe expanding over time through data provided by telescopes. We can see the close relationships between species through DNA, chromosomes, and anatomical analysis. Science tries every known method of disproving a hypothesis before calling it a theory. I'll buy that there's a certain amount of faith that science is doing it right. But it's wayyyy less required faith than hypothesizing God's existence.

There are scientist who have written books, and there are tons of facts supporting Intelligent Design. Why have you not heard of it? Maybe because it is not allowed to be taught. People who believe in God do not disagree with DNA or anything of that nature. And as for relationships between DNA if it is designed out of simmular material it does not mean we all are descendents of a worm....... I think it is unfair that scientist who claim to be so "open" minded won't even allow it to be researched................why is that? There are cases where supposed missing links were forged for years before being exposed as hoaxes.........why is that? I think it is because they want their theory to be fact so badly they were willing to lie.

I guess we will have to disagree here.............I think it takes more faith to believe we all decended like inbread hillbillies...........the family tree running straight down.

LooK Sarah, I can tell you books to read, and things to look up. But I have a feeling you would just dismiss them. I only jump in here because I see a negative vibe here about people of faith. We have to prove there is a God, though you cannot prove there is not. You cannot prove Evolution either. But you expect me to give proof? Faith is about something much deeper than I can explain to you. And if you want iron clad proof I don't have it. I just know what I have experianced, and what I believe, and I don't remember telling anyone here that they have to prove why they are non believers.

I'm not being flippant, but what if I told you that flying elephants exist. They are usually purple with pink spots. But I can't really prove they exist.

What would you say?

That they wouldn't believe it.

[artist4perry]

I want to make a note here, that I don't like people shoving anything down anyones throat.......be it religion, God, or atheism.

You never convert anyone to your way of thinking in that manner. You just make them gag.


How about I just like people for who they are as individuals. Sounds mighty fine to me.

[artist4perry]

Theories are just that..............hypothesis based on facts. But not all proved. You can no more prove that the world exploded and made everything work together perfectly any more than we can prove God. They both take some faith to beleive. They both have things unexplained.

Um, what facts is the hypothesis of God based on other than that things exist? Serious question.

There ARE certain facts that support the theory of the Big Bang, evolution, etc. We can see the universe expanding over time through data provided by telescopes. We can see the close relationships between species through DNA, chromosomes, and anatomical analysis. Science tries every known method of disproving a hypothesis before calling it a theory. I'll buy that there's a certain amount of faith that science is doing it right. But it's wayyyy less required faith than hypothesizing God's existence.

There are scientist who have written books, and there are tons of facts supporting Intelligent Design. Why have you not heard of it? Maybe because it is not allowed to be taught. People who believe in God do not disagree with DNA or anything of that nature. And as for relationships between DNA if it is designed out of simmular material it does not mean we all are descendents of a worm....... I think it is unfair that scientist who claim to be so "open" minded won't even allow it to be researched................why is that? There are cases where supposed missing links were forged for years before being exposed as hoaxes.........why is that? I think it is because they want their theory to be fact so badly they were willing to lie.

I guess we will have to disagree here.............I think it takes more faith to believe we all decended like inbread hillbillies...........the family tree running straight down.

LooK Sarah, I can tell you books to read, and things to look up. But I have a feeling you would just dismiss them. I only jump in here because I see a negative vibe here about people of faith. We have to prove there is a God, though you cannot prove there is not. You cannot prove Evolution either. But you expect me to give proof? Faith is about something much deeper than I can explain to you. And if you want iron clad proof I don't have it. I just know what I have experianced, and what I believe, and I don't remember telling anyone here that they have to prove why they are non believers.

I'm not being flippant, but what if I told you that flying elephants exist. They are usually purple with pink spots. But I can't really prove they exist.

What would you say?

Put down the bottle.

[YoungJRNY]

Theories are just that..............hypothesis based on facts. But not all proved. You can no more prove that the world exploded and made everything work together perfectly any more than we can prove God. They both take some faith to beleive. They both have things unexplained.

Um, what facts is the hypothesis of God based on other than that things exist? Serious question.

There ARE certain facts that support the theory of the Big Bang, evolution, etc. We can see the universe expanding over time through data provided by telescopes. We can see the close relationships between species through DNA, chromosomes, and anatomical analysis. Science tries every known method of disproving a hypothesis before calling it a theory. I'll buy that there's a certain amount of faith that science is doing it right. But it's wayyyy less required faith than hypothesizing God's existence.

There are scientist who have written books, and there are tons of facts supporting Intelligent Design. Why have you not heard of it? Maybe because it is not allowed to be taught. People who believe in God do not disagree with DNA or anything of that nature. And as for relationships between DNA if it is designed out of simmular material it does not mean we all are descendents of a worm....... I think it is unfair that scientist who claim to be so "open" minded won't even allow it to be researched................why is that? There are cases where supposed missing links were forged for years before being exposed as hoaxes.........why is that? I think it is because they want their theory to be fact so badly they were willing to lie.

I guess we will have to disagree here.............I think it takes more faith to believe we all decended like inbread hillbillies...........the family tree running straight down.

LooK Sarah, I can tell you books to read, and things to look up. But I have a feeling you would just dismiss them. I only jump in here because I see a negative vibe here about people of faith. We have to prove there is a God, though you cannot prove there is not. You cannot prove Evolution either. But you expect me to give proof? Faith is about something much deeper than I can explain to you. And if you want iron clad proof I don't have it. I just know what I have experianced, and what I believe, and I don't remember telling anyone here that they have to prove why they are non believers.

I'm not being flippant, but what if I told you that flying elephants exist. They are usually purple with pink spots. But I can't really prove they exist.

What would you say?

Put down the bottle.

See, Matt? *laughs*

[artist4perry]

Young Jrny one must have a sense of humor here.