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General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby artist4perry » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:22 am

YoungJRNY wrote:
artist4perry wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:
artist4perry wrote:
Sarah wrote:
artist4perry wrote:Theories are just that..............hypothesis based on facts. But not all proved. You can no more prove that the world exploded and made everything work together perfectly any more than we can prove God. They both take some faith to beleive. They both have things unexplained.

Um, what facts is the hypothesis of God based on other than that things exist? Serious question.

There ARE certain facts that support the theory of the Big Bang, evolution, etc. We can see the universe expanding over time through data provided by telescopes. We can see the close relationships between species through DNA, chromosomes, and anatomical analysis. Science tries every known method of disproving a hypothesis before calling it a theory. I'll buy that there's a certain amount of faith that science is doing it right. But it's wayyyy less required faith than hypothesizing God's existence.


There are scientist who have written books, and there are tons of facts supporting Intelligent Design. Why have you not heard of it? Maybe because it is not allowed to be taught. People who believe in God do not disagree with DNA or anything of that nature. And as for relationships between DNA if it is designed out of simmular material it does not mean we all are descendents of a worm....... I think it is unfair that scientist who claim to be so "open" minded won't even allow it to be researched................why is that? There are cases where supposed missing links were forged for years before being exposed as hoaxes.........why is that? I think it is because they want their theory to be fact so badly they were willing to lie.

I guess we will have to disagree here.............I think it takes more faith to believe we all decended like inbread hillbillies...........the family tree running straight down. :wink: :lol:

LooK Sarah, I can tell you books to read, and things to look up. But I have a feeling you would just dismiss them. I only jump in here because I see a negative vibe here about people of faith. We have to prove there is a God, though you cannot prove there is not. You cannot prove Evolution either. But you expect me to give proof? Faith is about something much deeper than I can explain to you. And if you want iron clad proof I don't have it. I just know what I have experianced, and what I believe, and I don't remember telling anyone here that they have to prove why they are non believers.




I'm not being flippant, but what if I told you that flying elephants exist. They are usually purple with pink spots. But I can't really prove they exist.

What would you say?


Put down the bottle. :twisted:


See, Matt? *laughs*

:lol:


Curious to me how I am to beleive we decend from animals that still exhist.........what happened to the monkeys? Did they say thanks but no thanks, I think I will pass..........we are supposed to decend so how is there more than one species?

Law of science........ matter cannot come from nothing. But that is what you ask me to beleive. That all things come from nothing. And that a series of accidents turned into a world that pretty much works in harmony........so much so it tends to lend to a design of some sort. All things complex and a wonder in itself. There is your flying elephant if you ask me........ :D
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Postby artist4perry » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:23 am

Fact Finder wrote:
artist4perry wrote:Young Jrny one must have a sense of humor here. :wink:


He'll be begging for God when the Bengals lead the Stealers 24-17 with 2 minutes to go on Sunday. Oh Dear God let Rothlisberger complete this pass. :lol:

Sacked! :P


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby verslibre » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:43 pm

artist4perry wrote:Curious to me how I am to beleive we decend from animals that still exhist.........what happened to the monkeys? Did they say thanks but no thanks, I think I will pass..........we are supposed to decend so how is there more than one species?


To quote the late George Carlin (also an atheist) —

"If we're supposed to be descended from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?"

:lol:
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Postby verslibre » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:45 pm

YoungJRNY wrote:
verslibre wrote:
YoungJRNY wrote:That's why I bother, just like you or anyone believing in the bible feels the matter to force it onto others.


I haven't "force-fed" anybody anything.

YoungJRNY wrote: I have every right to talk as to why I think the Bible is bullshit over why anyone thinks it's the all mighty power of God and that you should live by it.


Okaaaaay....but then you wrote:

YoungJRNY wrote:There is REALLY no more to say on this issue.


:wink:


Dammit man, READ. Whatever I ever said about having a finger in my face, or being "force-fed" never really contained to this board but personal experience outside of this board or on debate.


LOL. Must be that time of the month. Don't worry, "man," I do read. Not one of your grammatical errors gets by me. :lol:
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Postby artist4perry » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:49 pm

verslibre wrote:
artist4perry wrote:Curious to me how I am to beleive we decend from animals that still exhist.........what happened to the monkeys? Did they say thanks but no thanks, I think I will pass..........we are supposed to decend so how is there more than one species?


To quote the late George Carlin (also an atheist) —

"If we're supposed to be descended from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?"

:lol:


Exactly! :wink: :lol: :lol:

Look..........I don't mind if anyone is an atheist and wants to believe in evolution. I just get sick and tired of being told I am crazy for believing in God. Takes faith to believe in something.

Carlin cracks me up by the way. :wink:
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Postby artist4perry » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:08 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzvm8k5kSjs

Derailing here we need a laugh............Carlin on cats.
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Postby Lula » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:32 pm

love george carlin!! i believe in God. i was raised in the faith of the trinity and continue to believe.
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Postby artist4perry » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:35 pm

Lula wrote:love george carlin!! i believe in God. i was raised in the faith of the trinity and continue to believe.


Love that pic of Wyatt................he is such a doll! :D There is an arguement of intelligent design if I ever saw one. :wink:
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Postby Lula » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:37 pm

i should probably update the pic, it is 7 months old lol. thank you for the compliment, i think he is pretty amazing ;)
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Postby artist4perry » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:38 pm

Lula wrote:i should probably update the pic, it is 7 months old lol. thank you for the compliment, i think he is pretty amazing ;)


A new pic would be great! :D
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Postby JH'sTXfan » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:13 pm

artist4perry wrote:
Lula wrote:love george carlin!! i believe in God. i was raised in the faith of the trinity and continue to believe.


Love that pic of Wyatt................he is such a doll! :D There is an arguement of intelligent design if I ever saw one. :wink:


+1. He's adorable!

I believe in God also. He is more real than anything on this earth. If someone wants proof all they have to do is seek it from the source. He will reveal it to them. Seek and you will find, knock and it shall be opened.
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Postby YoungJRNY » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:29 pm

Fact Finder wrote:
artist4perry wrote:Young Jrny one must have a sense of humor here. :wink:


He'll be begging for God when the Bengals lead the Stealers 24-17 with 2 minutes to go on Sunday. Oh Dear God let Rothlisberger complete this pass. :lol:

Sacked! :P


Fact Finder, if by some chance this scenario does happen I'd be pretty happy since Roethlisberger is the best in the league at 4th quarter comebacks and leading his team down the field. Don't hope for that scenario because something tells me you'll have Bible in hand praying on all four if that somehow happens. If if does happen, and when Ben leads his team 85 yards in 4 plays, we'd simply go for two and win 25-24 on our way to the Division Title.:lol: But don't worry, Steelers will win this in a blow out. :wink:
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Postby YoungJRNY » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:29 pm

JH'sTXfan wrote:
artist4perry wrote:
Lula wrote:love george carlin!! i believe in God. i was raised in the faith of the trinity and continue to believe.


Love that pic of Wyatt................he is such a doll! :D There is an arguement of intelligent design if I ever saw one. :wink:


+1. He's adorable!

I believe in God also. He is more real than anything on this earth. If someone wants proof all they have to do is seek it from the source. He will reveal it to them. Seek and you will find, knock and it shall be opened.


Okay.
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Postby S2M » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:40 am

YoungJRNY wrote:
Fact Finder, if by some chance this scenario does happen I'd be pretty happy since Roethlisberger is the best in the league at 4th quarter comebacks and leading his team down the field. Don't hope for that scenario because something tells me you'll have Bible in hand praying on all four if that somehow happens. If if does happen, and when Ben leads his team 85 yards in 4 plays, we'd simply go for two and win 25-24 on our way to the Division Title.:lol: But don't worry, Steelers will win this in a blow out. :wink:


Another prime example of you talkin' out yo ass....

4th quarter comebacks

QB Actual
John Elway 34
Brett Favre 27
Dan Marino 36
Peyton Manning 28
Drew Bledsoe 24
Joe Montana 31
Johnny Unitas 34
Tom Brady 20
Roger Staubach 15
Ben Roethlisberger 15
Chad Pennington 7
Jay Cutler 5


That's 3 QBS still in the league who have more 4th quarter comebacks than your precious Big Ben....
Tom Brady IS the G.O.A.T.
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Postby YoungJRNY » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:08 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:
YoungJRNY wrote:
Fact Finder, if by some chance this scenario does happen I'd be pretty happy since Roethlisberger is the best in the league at 4th quarter comebacks and leading his team down the field. Don't hope for that scenario because something tells me you'll have Bible in hand praying on all four if that somehow happens. If if does happen, and when Ben leads his team 85 yards in 4 plays, we'd simply go for two and win 25-24 on our way to the Division Title.:lol: But don't worry, Steelers will win this in a blow out. :wink:


Another prime example of you talkin' out yo ass....

4th quarter comebacks

QB Actual
John Elway 34
Brett Favre 27
Dan Marino 36
Peyton Manning 28
Drew Bledsoe 24
Joe Montana 31
Johnny Unitas 34
Tom Brady 20
Roger Staubach 15
Ben Roethlisberger 15
Chad Pennington 7
Jay Cutler 5


That's 3 QBS still in the league who have more 4th quarter comebacks than your precious Big Ben....


Dude, this isn't the thread for this to be in. There are already 2 NFL threads going. Don't worry. I saw it and responded to your garbage.
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Postby bluejeangirl76 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:10 am

YoungJRNY wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
artist4perry wrote:Young Jrny one must have a sense of humor here. :wink:


He'll be begging for God when the Bengals lead the Stealers 24-17 with 2 minutes to go on Sunday. Oh Dear God let Rothlisberger complete this pass. :lol:

Sacked! :P


Fact Finder, if by some chance this scenario does happen I'd be pretty happy since Roethlisberger is the best in the league at 4th quarter comebacks and leading his team down the field. Don't hope for that scenario because something tells me you'll have Bible in hand praying on all four if that somehow happens. If if does happen, and when Ben leads his team 85 yards in 4 plays, we'd simply go for two and win 25-24 on our way to the Division Title.:lol: But don't worry, Steelers will win this in a blow out. :wink:


Hey, unless God and Jesus suddenly became NFL players like the Manning boys, (and if they did, can Chicago have God, please? We haven't had a ring since '85) would y'all mind taking your "I know more about football than you do, asshole" debates back to the football thread, um, cuz, that's what it's there for... Okthx. :D :D

I really love February.

Edit: Nm. Travis got it. But I'm leaving this anyway cuz it's funny. :twisted: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Sarah » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:48 am

artist4perry wrote:I guess we will have to disagree here.............I think it takes more faith to believe we all decended like inbread hillbillies...........the family tree running straight down. :wink: :lol:

Isn't that the story of Adam and Eve? That we're all descended from two people? How is evolution less inbred than that?
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Postby Sarah » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:52 am

JH'sTXfan wrote:I believe in God also. He is more real than anything on this earth. If someone wants proof all they have to do is seek it from the source. He will reveal it to them. Seek and you will find, knock and it shall be opened.

I don't think it's as easy as that. Many non-believers start out as people who are religious and try to/want to believe, but God does not reveal anything to them after some time or open any doors, so they find it hard to continue.
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Postby S2M » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:53 am

Sarah wrote:
artist4perry wrote:I guess we will have to disagree here.............I think it takes more faith to believe we all decended like inbread hillbillies...........the family tree running straight down. :wink: :lol:

Isn't that the story of Adam and Eve? That we're all descended from two people? How is evolution less inbred than that?


That's the first time i've heard the coalescing of two, or more amino acids as inbreeding :lol:
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Postby bluejeangirl76 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:58 am

Sarah wrote:
artist4perry wrote:I guess we will have to disagree here.............I think it takes more faith to believe we all decended like inbread hillbillies...........the family tree running straight down. :wink: :lol:


Isn't that the story of Adam and Eve? That we're all descended from two people? How is evolution less inbred than that?


I know this might sound terrible... but I was a little kid and this was my thought process...

I remember being taught the whole Adam and Eve story at my very Catholic school, and I found holes it in right away.
I used to wonder (and I asked adults around me and NO ONE could answer me) if Adam and Eve were the ONLY two people on Earth, and they started all the breeding, where did we get other races from? I remember asking my mom and my sister and a few other older people, "If Adam and Eve were white, where did black people come from? And if they were black, where did white people come from?"

(don't laugh at me... we're talking maybe age 6 or 7 here)

I also recall wanting to know how Adam and Eve just "got created" without being born, like the rest of us. Was it just like "Poof, there's a dude... and Poof, there's a chick for him."

And I would like to add a question to that, now that I am older and smarter. Since (especially in Catholicism) premarital sex is wrong, am I to assume that Adam and Eve were married before they had Cain, Abel and Seth? And if they were the only 2 people.... who married them?

The snake? :?: :lol:
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Postby Lula » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:06 am

Sarah wrote:
JH'sTXfan wrote:I believe in God also. He is more real than anything on this earth. If someone wants proof all they have to do is seek it from the source. He will reveal it to them. Seek and you will find, knock and it shall be opened.

I don't think it's as easy as that. Many non-believers start out as people who are religious and try to/want to believe, but God does not reveal anything to them after some time or open any doors, so they find it hard to continue.


you're right sarah. i know a few folks that fit that scenario.
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Postby artist4perry » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:14 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:
Sarah wrote:
artist4perry wrote:I guess we will have to disagree here.............I think it takes more faith to believe we all decended like inbread hillbillies...........the family tree running straight down. :wink: :lol:

Isn't that the story of Adam and Eve? That we're all descended from two people? How is evolution less inbred than that?


That's the first time i've heard the coalescing of two, or more amino acids as inbreeding :lol:


It is called a joke..................not to be taken literally..............basicly science saying we all decend from one creature to another..........though no real bones that are verifiable about that. :? If this happened we should be finding those fossils everywhere...............not just a very scant skelleton that could very well be forged since many have been in the past. Why just one found? Seems fishy to me...........or in this case a great deal of monkey buisness.

Again.......if you like evolution be my guest. I would rather believe that all creatures were created just as they are. Monkeys still exist because they hav existed for a long time. People exist because we have been around a long time too. Seperate creatures.......simular DNA.........sure. But simular DNA could have been used to make us all.

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Postby verslibre » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:27 am

How about that story that showed the skeleton of something that looked like a lemur-lizard with an extra-long tail — that was supposed to be "The Missing Link"?

Which, of course, they later concluded wasn't. :lol:
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Postby artist4perry » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:32 am

verslibre wrote:How about that story that showed the skeleton of something that looked like a lemur-lizard with an extra-long tail — that was supposed to be "The Missing Link"?

Which, of course, they later concluded wasn't. :lol:


That is the point. Even Lucy has been brought to question as a hoax. The so called upright knee joint was found miles away. And the skull was just peices as you can see. I would think we would find evidence everywhere.

Flood silt has been found all over the world. And simular stories of a great flood existed from all over the world. All containing one family that survived. All cultures far from each other. Seems odd the story would exist in all those countries.
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Postby Zedul » Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:44 pm

bluejeangirl76 wrote:I know this might sound terrible... but I was a little kid and this was my thought process...

I remember being taught the whole Adam and Eve story at my very Catholic school, and I found holes it in right away.
I used to wonder (and I asked adults around me and NO ONE could answer me) if Adam and Eve were the ONLY two people on Earth, and they started all the breeding, where did we get other races from? I remember asking my mom and my sister and a few other older people, "If Adam and Eve were white, where did black people come from? And if they were black, where did white people come from?"

(don't laugh at me... we're talking maybe age 6 or 7 here)

I also recall wanting to know how Adam and Eve just "got created" without being born, like the rest of us. Was it just like "Poof, there's a dude... and Poof, there's a chick for him."

And I would like to add a question to that, now that I am older and smarter. Since (especially in Catholicism) premarital sex is wrong, am I to assume that Adam and Eve were married before they had Cain, Abel and Seth? And if they were the only 2 people.... who married them?

The snake? :?: :lol:



Science indicate that all human beings on the planet share the DNA of a single mother, called "mitochondrial eve" - here is wiki dumb entry for ya: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

The rest of this I am going to wing off the top of my head - from my hazy 20 year old memory when I studied higher criticism and comparative religion in college.

In any case, the first two chapters of Genesis were recorded by Moses who probably used creation myth sources from both Sumeria and Egypt and then added his own philosophical outlook on it - meaning those chapters of Genesis were originally written in Hieroglyphics using a method called "recapitulation". The Hebrews kept the writings of Moses and used to recite them over and over and over in their oral traditions, some of them even wrote many of the words on their foreheads or on the door frames of their houses.

These texts were then complied by different scribes and scholars in the early days of the kingdom of Israel, different factions each had different pulls and some of these writings - such as the Kabbalah and the Book of Enoch did not become "canon". Later Alexander the Great, after the conquest of the middle east - compiled all of these Jewish writings in a large Greek tome called the "Septuagint" - this is what we now know as the "Old Testament".

The creation myth, the flood myth, the story of the snake and the garden exist not only in the Bible but in NUMEROUS "creation myths" across the world, with eerily surprising similarity and frequency... for example, the ancient Chinese story of the flood is almost identical, even to the number of people.

Moses, being an intellectual and a scholar who was fluent in multiple languages - unlike yourself, was probably drawing upon what he saw as very powerful archetypes in the various myths.

Now whether he was inspired by a "divine will" or whether he was just a great thinker and philosopher are valid debates.

Whether you are mocking God or mocking the work of thousands of great men and scholars and kings and emperors and entire societies over thousands of years when you are not even literate enough to have the most basic of historical context or understanding is YOUR prerogative. But it doesn't make you sound particularly clever, insightful, or even really funny.

You come off as an ignorant bore who is in way over your head... judging the level of your ranting, pediatric attempt at atheistic apology - I do believe that a 12 year old Baptist homeschooling in a trailer park in Texas would probably make a more suitable partner for you to debate with.
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Postby SherriBerry » Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:49 pm

bluejeangirl76 wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:
bluejeangirl76 wrote:I'm offended by the Bible's portrayal of a guy running around performing magic and no one seems to care what I think so to hell with them if they can't just go "you know what, it's just one interpretation and it's just a play and it's seriously not worth losing my mind over" like I have to do everytime someone insists that the Bible is a literal account.



Yeah, I always wondered about that account of Jesus turning water into cheeseless pizza.... :shock:


You do realize only two people get that, right?

Cheeseless pizza is against my religion. I'm a Chicagoist. We serve pizza at communion.

Jesus can be transsexual as long as he doesn't pick off the fk'n cheese.


Who would ruin a pizza by not adding the cheese? Actually, without the cheese it isn't even a pizza, just a flat, crusty bread with tomato sauce!
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Postby verslibre » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:36 pm

SherriBerry wrote:
bluejeangirl76 wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:Yeah, I always wondered about that account of Jesus turning water into cheeseless pizza.... :shock:


You do realize only two people get that, right?

Cheeseless pizza is against my religion. I'm a Chicagoist. We serve pizza at communion.

Jesus can be transsexual as long as he doesn't pick off the fk'n cheese.


Who would ruin a pizza by not adding the cheese? Actually, without the cheese it isn't even a pizza, just a flat, crusty bread with tomato sauce!


Sometimes people think they're being clever while they're giggling at their own little inside jokes, like when somebody goes "Ya know...water is only one ingredient away from concrete, right?" :wink:
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Postby SherriBerry » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:53 pm

verslibre wrote:
SherriBerry wrote:
bluejeangirl76 wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:Yeah, I always wondered about that account of Jesus turning water into cheeseless pizza.... :shock:


You do realize only two people get that, right?

Cheeseless pizza is against my religion. I'm a Chicagoist. We serve pizza at communion.

Jesus can be transsexual as long as he doesn't pick off the fk'n cheese.


Who would ruin a pizza by not adding the cheese? Actually, without the cheese it isn't even a pizza, just a flat, crusty bread with tomato sauce!


Sometimes people think they're being clever while they're giggling at their own little inside jokes, like when somebody goes "Ya know...water is only one ingredient away from concrete, right?" :wink:


I got the joke - Chicagoans take their pizza as seriously as Quebecers take their poutine (french fries topped with gravy and cheese curds). But this seems to be a thread about faith and I believe a pizza without cheese would suck! :lol:
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Postby verslibre » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:19 pm

SherriBerry wrote:
verslibre wrote:Sometimes people think they're being clever while they're giggling at their own little inside jokes, like when somebody goes "Ya know...water is only one ingredient away from concrete, right?" :wink:


I got the joke - Chicagoans take their pizza as seriously as Quebecers take their poutine (french fries topped with gravy and cheese curds). But this seems to be a thread about faith and I believe a pizza without cheese would suck! :lol:


Kweebeckers? :lol:

I believe Nutter Butters without the creme filling* would suck!



*Please, no jokes... :lol:
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Postby SherriBerry » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:22 pm

It's evident from this thread that the one thing we all have in common is that we are searching for answers and doing the best we can. I am a spiritual person, though I don't have any particular use for organized religion in my life. I admire many who do - the Dalai Lama and Mother Theresa come to mind. The best I can do is read as much as possible about the history and philosophies of all faiths and the body of scientific knowledge, draw from it that which works for me while listening to my instincts, and not judge anyone else for their system of beliefs. The only line I draw is if people of any faith or ideology try to force their beliefs on me or others under the threat of violence.

Science teaches us that there are forces we cannot see or currently explain, but that does not mean they are not there. Science and faith are not mutually exclusive. It's the search to answer the question "Why?" that gives us the answers and I will never believe that I have all of them. The only certainty I have at the moment is that one day I will die and learn the answers to my questions - then I will laugh and wonder what the hell I was thinking! Until then I will live my life with honesty, compassion, and forgiveness and the rest will work itself out. I don't believe there is a specific path anyone must follow - it's the journey in life and what you learn and experience that matters.
Last edited by SherriBerry on Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SherriBerry
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